RB is a really GLARING need, right?

[njbuff]

The top 5 RB's are clear and they all might be gone by 54.

 

Will one of them land to the Bills, or will they trade up to get one?

[JESSEFEFFER]

On 3/26/2020 at 9:53 PM, Augie said:

It’s probably the most glaring need we have, and fortunately it’s a pretty easy one to fix. I trust our guys to get Motor a good companion. 

This is a match to my thinking.  Glaring as in obvious but easy to fill as in that there are many decent options to meet the need. 

 

I was making some mashed potatoes of the instant type (free tip : throw in some frozen fries to make it better.)  I open the fridge and see there is no more milk.  My kids were set on some potatoes with gravy as part of their lunch.  Milk is a glaring kitchen need but options for getting some are plentiful. 

 

Many think a first round RB = buying a cow.  A few think that a 2nd round RB = buying a dairy farm.  

 

Thus, my hope that an elite talent might be there at 54 or a little earlier.  We know Beane likes to target guys they view as elite that are falling.  An elite RB talent in round 2 might be a sensible solution that is bpa and adds another reliable playmaker to the offense for 4 years or more.

 

I solved the milk problem by adding half a tub of Bison dip and some shredded cheese.   Not ideal but in a pinch it did the job and the kids ate it up per usual.  That is Yeldon, imo.  Ok in a pinch until you can get to Wegman's.

Edited April 4, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER

[maryland-bills-fan]

I like Singletary but when you look up the ratings of NFL RB’s in 2019, the best I see him rated is #20. Maybe other posters know or can find other reports that have him rated higher. “20” is about bottom third of the league. If we are to be a contender, I would like to see our RB rated in the top 10.

 

 

Singletary is #22 here:

 

https://www.thedelite.com/nfl-starting-running-backs-ranked-for-2019-season

 

===============================================

Singletary is #20 here:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/rb/2019

 

=================================================

Singletary is #20 here in a composite fantasy list:

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/rankings/rb-cheatsheets.php

 

================================================

Singletary is #30 here: (nlf.com)

 

https://www.tennesseetitans.com/video/nfl-com-ranks-nfl-s-top-running-backs-of-2019

=================================================

others?

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

This is a match to my thinking.  Glaring as in obvious but easy to fill as in that there are many decent options to meet the need. 

 

I was making some mashed potatoes of the instant type (free tip : throw in some frozen fries to make it better.)  I open the fridge and see there is no more milk.  My kids were set on some potatoes with gravy as part of their lunch.  Milk is a glaring kitchen need but options for getting some are plentiful. 

 

Many think a first round RB = buying a cow.  A few think that a 2nd round RB = buying a dairy farm.  

 

Thus, my hope that an elite talent might be there at 54 or a little earlier.  We know Beane likes to target guys they view as elite that are falling.  An elite RB talent in round 2 might be a sensible solution that is bpa and adds another reliable playmaker to the offense for 4 years or more.

 

I solved the milk problem by adding half a tub of Bison dip and some shredded cheese.   Not ideal but in a pinch it did the job and the kids ate it up per usual.  That is Yeldon, imo.  Ok in a pinch until you can get to Wegman's.

 

Funny you use this analogy TODAY! I went to the store mainly to stock up for a week of breakfast for me, skim milk and bananas. You have to pay attention.....all the milk on the shel expires TODAY! Apparently it’s not as easy to fill as it used to be!   

[maryland-bills-fan]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:54 AM, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

I think a backup running back is an easier position to fill than most other positions. i would wait til the 5th round before drafting one. I'd go CB, DE, WR before RB.

Easier to fill, yes.  A top 10 guy, no.

 

[Thurman#1]

On 4/4/2020 at 9:10 PM, CSBill said:

 

This, a bigger RB that can run between the tackles, and who can block and catch passes in the passing game. Free agnet or draft, that is he need.

 

 

 

That's the way I've always leaned too. We've got an evasive guy, now get a hammer as a change-of-pace, someone like A.J. Dillon. I do think that the people who would rather get a speed back to pair with Singletary have a point, but me, I'd rather get someone like Dillon.

 

Now, it seems that Beane thinks that way a bit too, as shown in his pre-draft interview:

 

"It’s also telling that Beane has expressed confidence in T.J. Yeldon. Skeptics will naturally point to his vote of confidence for LeSean McCoy last year before he was cut, but that was a different situation. Yeldon has no illusion of starting over Singletary and he’s on a modest contract.

 

“ 'We’re very confident in T.J.. I can remember scouting him, coming out and watching him in his years in Jacksonville. He’s a three-down player. He’s smart. He fit us well. The great thing about T.J., he wasn’t up last year because of the way we had things with special teams,' Beane said. 'He’s a guy that we feel can play at any point. Very good out of the pass game. Was probably more of a threat than Frank out of the backfield, but we just felt Frank was that heavier downhill presence than Devin’s style, and that’s not T.J.’s biggest strength. Very confident T.J. can come in. Devin is our No. 1 as it stands and if something happened to him, T.J. has carried the load in Jacksonville and has proven it, so we look forward to bringing him back for Year Two.'

 

"So, the Bills appear satisfied with their veteran back, downplaying the need to find another in free agency or early on in the draft. On Day Three of the draft, though, anything goes at running back. By that point, it’s about finding players who can make the team and contribute down the line. If the Bills can find a complementary runner with more of a downhill flair to his game, like Gore, that would be a great addition in the fourth, fifth or sixth round. If he could help on special teams, that would be even better."

 

https://theathletic.com/1720052/2020/04/02/seven-thoughts-on-the-bills-draft-after-brandon-beanes-press-conference/?source=dailyemail

 

 

 

They wanted a "heavier downhill presence." That's interesting. Not conclusive, of course, but indicative. My guesses that we are looking hard at Dillon have taken a tick upwards in probability, methinks.

[Thurman#1]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:47 PM, DCOrange said:

If we're going to use Football Outsiders' numbers, DVOA probably makes more sense. DYAR will likely prop up 1st rounders because teams that take a RB in the 1st round will feel obligated to use them as more of a bellcow so they'll naturally have more touches and fare better in terms of DYAR. DVOA is focused on the value each RB gives on a per touch basis (also probably more important in our case due to the fact that Singletary didn't become a starter until well into the season).

 

Singletary ranks 13th in terms of DVOA. It seems possible to me we already have our top 10 guy.

 

And in terms of DVOA, 4 of the top 10 from last year were drafted in the first 2 rounds. 5 were drafted in the 5th round or later.

 

 

 

This. As they say, DYAR refers to overall value, and Singletary didn't get all that many touches last year, whereas DVOA refers to value per play. Singletary was quite a bit better there, and that was as a rookie.

 

And you simply don't need a great RB to be a terrific team. KC's best RB last year in DYAR was 29th (McCoy) and at DVOA was 28th (again, McCoy). Damien Williams was a couple of spots behind. Last year's champ, NE, had Sony Michel at #26 as their top-ranked guy at DVOA and #24 at DYAR.

 

In 2017, the champion Eagles best was Ajayi at #27 and #28, putting up 408 yards for Philly in eight games, and that was the year he played on two teams. Philly's #2 guy was Blount at #37 and #36.

 

You simply don't need a great RB, or even a very good one. Singletary, Yeldon and either a late FA (remember, Beane brought in Yeldon himself on April 22nd, three days before the draft in 2018) or mid-rounder in a great draft for mid-round RBs.

[maryland-bills-fan]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

This. As they say, DYAR refers to overall value, and Singletary didn't get all that many touches last year, whereas DVOA refers to value per play. Singletary was quite a bit better there, and that was as a rookie.

 

And you simply don't need a great RB to be a terrific team. KC's best RB last year in DYAR was 29th (McCoy) and at DVOA was 28th (again, McCoy). Damien Williams was a couple of spots behind. Last year's champ, NE, had Sony Michel at #26 as their top-ranked guy at DVOA and #24 at DYAR.

 

In 2017, the champion Eagles best was Ajayi at #27 and #28, putting up 408 yards for Philly in eight games, and that was the year he played on two teams. Philly's #2 guy was Blount at #37 and #36.

 

You simply don't need a great RB, or even a very good one. Singletary, Yeldon and either a late FA (remember, Beane brought in Yeldon himself on April 22nd, three days before the draft in 2018) or mid-rounder in a great draft for mid-round RBs.

Well, a guy who is a better runner improves our team.  Having another weapon (pass receiving RB) is always a good idea. 

 

[DCofNC]

I am curious what Christian Wade is looking like behind the scenes.  The guy clearly has the athleticism to be a great player, has he refined himself enough to be a factor this year?  Is he part of the plans?  I think we will see the answer by round 4 if no RB has been taken.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:59 PM, maryland-bills-fan said:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/4/1/21198814/opinion-making-adjustments-to-the-running-backs-dont-matter-philosophy

 

If anybody can explain this to me, please post it or send a PM.  I don't know if I have had too much or too little to drink.

 

I think they established that running game matters, but not necessarily the back.  They also kind of made note of the fact that a good offensive line and QB can affect the position greatly.  There wasn't like a clear - this is the way to get running backs though.  "Running backs matter, but as we recognize they matter less than other positions, let’s not go overboard."

[JESSEFEFFER]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:59 PM, maryland-bills-fan said:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/4/1/21198814/opinion-making-adjustments-to-the-running-backs-dont-matter-philosophy

 

If anybody can explain this to me, please post it or send a PM.  I don't know if I have had too much or too little to drink.

I had listened to the podcast version of this but it mirrors pretty closely this article.  A big miss is the fact that an elite RB can add much to an offense as a pass catcher. 

[Mr. K]

Eno Benjamin por favor

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I had listened to the podcast version of this but it mirrors pretty closely this article.  A big miss is the fact that an elite RB can add much to an offense as a pass catcher. 

 

Here is an interesting article explaining the basic running back routes.  http://www.spreadoffense.com/ssp/rb_spread_threat  TT was deadly with the "wheel" and  the "hole".  That would give Allen a safety net on blitzes.  The "rice" (I never heard it called that) with a drag by a WR, would be deadly with a good pass catching and speedier RB.   A speedy RB who could flex out as a WR would also give the defense fits and could lead to big mismatches.  There is also this thing called "a screen pass", which is illegal for the Bills.  There is a whole world that we have been missing on offense.

 

Our receiving stats for last year:                               https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=O&cat=T

 

                              catches          yards         yard per game

Brown                      72                 1060           70.7

Beasley                   67                   778             51.9

Knox                        28                   338             25.9

Yeldon                     13                   124            20.7

Sweeney                   8                   114             19

McKenzie                 27                 254             16.9

Singletary                29                  194             16.2

Gore                        13                    100            6.2

(D Williams              12                  166             41.5 )

 

The backup running back and each of two tight ends have a better yards/game than our present RB.  Remember that in receiving in 2019 for RB's he is ranked #44.

 

Sorry for any misspellings.

Edited April 8, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan

[jdonley1180]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:10 AM, CSBill said:

 

This, a bigger RB that can run between the tackles, and who can block and catch passes in the passing game. Free agent or draft, that is he need.

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

19 minutes ago, jdonley1180 said:

.op t to #54,  I would take Akers unless some guy with certain top 40 grade was available.  If the top 5 are gone, I would hope for Moss in the 3rd and trade up as much as possible for him.  That is my board. 

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

 

 

 

The backup running back and each of two tight ends have a better yards/game than our present RB.  Remember that in receiving in 2019 for RB's he is ranked #44.

 

 

 

Remember that it was his ***** rookie season?

 

They were still figuring out what he could do, and working him into the lineup.

 

(Now I remember, you're the guy that thinks all these guys in the draft will be better than Singletary....)

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by 32ABBA

[maryland-bills-fan]

15 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

Remember that it was his ***** rookie season?

 

They were still figuring out what he could do, and working him into the lineup.

 

(Now I remember, you're the guy that thinks all these guys in the draft will be better than Singletary....)

 

 

 

Silly.

[The_Ripster]

Would you say this concern has been adequately addressed?

Is the RB position one of this teams strengths or weaknesses?

[WotAGuy]

6 minutes ago, The_Ripster said:

Would you say this concern has been adequately addressed?

Is the RB position one of this teams strengths or weaknesses?

You’ve awakened the sleeping giant

[Reader]

7 minutes ago, The_Ripster said:

Would you say this concern has been adequately addressed?

Is the RB position one of this teams strengths or weaknesses?

 

Considering the Bills signed Matt Breida on the 25th of March, something tells me you could find the answer in this thread, already.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Since you guys are determined to bump this fossil, here's some fuel:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/07/maurice-jones-drew-buffalo-bills-devin-singletary-zack-moss/

 

Quote

Maurice Jones-Drew, the former running back turned analyst for NFL Media, is not very high on the Buffalo Bills’ backfield.

MJD ranked each starting backfield head-to-head and… at least the Bills don’t have the worst in the AFC East? Still, it’s pretty bad.

Devin Singletary was named Buffalo’s “starter” for the list, but the breakdown attributes both Singletary and Zack Moss. The only backfield Buffalo’s duo ranks better than is the one sported by the Miami Dolphins. The Bills are No. 31 overall. 

Ouch:

The Bills have had a real problem with their run game and they need a reliable player at the position. Devin Singletary and Zack Moss have each had their moments but neither player has shown any consistency. Right now, Josh Allen is the best rusher on the team. That really bothers me as a former running back. The Bills’ backfield really needs to step it up, and Singletary has the most experience. The time is now.

 

I said elsewhere and will say here. 

 

I agree, Josh Allen is probably the most talented rusher on the team. 

That's probably true of a number of other teams: Ravens (Lamar Jackson), Cardinals (Kyler Murray), New England (Cam Newton), Texans (Deshaun Watson), Seattle (Russ Wilson).  Even the Giants! (Daniel Jones) - which, Damn! Daniel -  was NOT supposed to be that way!

 

Does it bother Maurice Jones-Drew for these other teams as well?

 

If not, why not?

 

Josh Allen is becoming pretty widely acknowledged as having pretty high athletic talent.  He apparently trains off-season with the same running coach who trains Deshaun Watson.

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

March 2020??

 

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

March 2020??

 

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Since you guys are determined to bump this fossil, here's some fuel:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/07/maurice-jones-drew-buffalo-bills-devin-singletary-zack-moss/

 

 

I said elsewhere and will say here. 

 

I agree, Josh Allen is probably the most talented rusher on the team. 

That's probably true of a number of other teams: Ravens (Lamar Jackson), Cardinals (Kyler Murray), New England (Cam Newton), Texans (Deshaun Watson), Seattle (Russ Wilson).  Even the Giants! (Daniel Jones) - which, Damn! Daniel -  was NOT supposed to be that way!

 

Does it bother Maurice Jones-Drew for these other teams as well?

 

If not, why not?

 

Josh Allen is becoming pretty widely acknowledged as having pretty high athletic talent.  He apparently trains off-season with the same running coach who trains Deshaun Watson.

 

 

 

Don't think Cam Newton is the best rusher on the Patriots

 

I think Damian Harris has taken the nod

[TBBills]

The Bills have the best RB to have never played the game... Christian Wade.

[The_Ripster]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Does it bother Maurice Jones-Drew for these other teams as well?

 

If not, why not?

 

Maybe MoJo values the other teams' supporting rushers more? More production and more experience out of the backfield on most those other teams.
And he might be wary of replicable production out of Zack Moss due to his lingering injury and recovery time line.
 

47 minutes ago, Reader said:

 

Considering the Bills signed Matt Breida on the 25th of March, something tells me you could find the answer in this thread, already.

As for Breida, I am really excited to see what he brings too, but it does discourage me that he got beat out by Gaskins and Ahmed on the Dolphins last year.
It's not like those guys had incredible seasons either last year at 584 yrds and 319 yrds respectfully, with Breida stomping for just 254 yards.

I do like Breida's production in SF tho.

[Putin]

3 minutes ago, The_Ripster said:

Maybe MoJo values the other teams' supporting rushers more? More production and more experience out of the backfield on most those other teams.
And he might be wary of replicable production out of Zack Moss due to his lingering injury and recovery time line.
 

As for Breida, I am really excited to see what he brings too, but it does discourage me that he got beat out by Gaskins and Ahmed on the Dolphins last year.
It's not like those guys had incredible seasons either last year at 584 yrds and 319 yrds respectfully, with Breida stomping for just 254 yards.

I do like Breida's production in SF tho.

I don’t think Brita was a good fit in Miami  , 

I think he’ll be better in zone blocking if that is what will run again this year .

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, The_Ripster said:

Maybe MoJo values the other teams' supporting rushers more? More production and more experience out of the backfield on most those other teams.
And he might be wary of replicable production out of Zack Moss due to his lingering injury and recovery time line.
 

As for Breida, I am really excited to see what he brings too, but it does discourage me that he got beat out by Gaskins and Ahmed on the Dolphins last year.
It's not like those guys had incredible seasons either last year at 584 yrds and 319 yrds respectfully, with Breida stomping for just 254 yards.

I do like Breida's production in SF tho.

What exactly is Moss lingering injury?

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, Warcodered said:

You know it’s grave robber time when these threads come back up in July each year.

 

The article Hap brings up doesn’t even reference Breida.  MJD was a solid RB, but always has strong opinions.  I’m not crazy about him, but he is making an obvious point.  Our running game needs to improve, but as several have stated it’s more about the line than the backs.  Our backs are average.  I’m hopeful Breida will be used well.  He had relative success in 18 and 19 in SF.

[Chandler#81]

It would just be GREAT if our ‘little secret’ Christian Wade made the team this year and burst onto the NFL landscape like we all know he could. 🙏👍

[machine gun kelly]

The guy I’m interested seeing in camp is Antonio Williams.  He had only 1 run in 2020, but looked impressive.  I hope it is really an open competition.  Camp can come soon enough.

[Don Otreply]

Not really, a mild need at present, if the coaches scheme to the O lines and RBs strength we will have a running game that melds into our pass 80% of the time offense, so no to the OP, you’re over blowing it a bunch.  
 

that and there has been endless banter about our supposed gigantic RB problem that is in reality a run blocking problem. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[WotAGuy]

(….frantically searching for the 1999 thread on Flutie vs Johnson….)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Don't think Cam Newton is the best rusher on the Patriots

 

I think Damian Harris has taken the nod

 

In terms of ypa certainly, 100 yds more on same # attempts.  I didn't watch enough Pats*** to say this year, but certainly through a lot of Cam's career even when another player had more yards and more attempts, it would have been argued that Cam was more dangerous with the ball in his hand.  But fair point.

 

10 hours ago, The_Ripster said:

As for Breida, I am really excited to see what he brings too, but it does discourage me that he got beat out by Gaskins and Ahmed on the Dolphins last year.

 

I think there are some backs who somehow can't fit in Chan Gailey's offense, and he turns away from them.  Remember how hard it was for Spiller to see the field his first couple years?

 

Of course, part of that was reportedly struggles with the playbook, and I don't know as Daboll's playbook is any easier for an RB to grasp

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, The_Ripster said:

Maybe MoJo values the other teams' supporting rushers more? More production and more experience out of the backfield on most those other teams.
And he might be wary of replicable production out of Zack Moss due to his lingering injury and recovery time line.

 

My point is, MJD wasn't just comparing Singletary to other backs in his remarks (which he also did, rating our backfield 31 out of 32 which seems harsh but arguable).  He was saying specifically that it bothered him that the QB, Allen was the best rusher on the team.

 

Ravens (Lamar Jackson): Gus Edwards just got a new contract and for sure had more production than Singletary, but Lamar Jackson blew his doors off for rushing production by every metric (1.3 more ypa, 22 more ypg etc etc) and no question who is more feared as a rusher  - so if it bothers MJD that the QB is the best rusher on the team in B'lo, does it bother him in Baltimore?
 

Cardinals (Kyler Murray): Kenyon Drake had more yards and 100 more attempts, and has more experience and production - but Murray blew his doors off 6.2 ypa vs 4.0 ypa.   No question who is the more dynamic run threat IMO, so if it bothers MJD in B'lo, does it bother him in AZ - and if not, why not?

 

I grant @Buffalo716 point about NE and certainly Jones is not a dynamic run threat with the Giants, but IMO similar arguments in Houston - David Johnson is a good back, but I think most players polled would say with the ball in his hand Watson more of a threat to contain - and Seattle's run game just sucked last year so similar argument for Wilson, even though at this point in his career it's clear that he'd rather pass and is trying to limit his hits.

I personally think those other teams don't bother MJD because he perceives Jackson, Murray, Wilson, Newton (earlier in his career certainly) as elite athletes.  It's no shame to be second fiddle as an RB to a truly elite athletic threat! 

 

In contrast, I don't think MJD credits Allen as the elite athlete he actually is.

 

Or put another way, we could have a far better RB in our backfield, and Allen could still be the best rusher on the team.

 

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

(….frantically searching for the 1999 thread on Flutie vs Johnson….)

Was that website in DOS?  😜😇👍🏋️‍♂️🦬

 

I think even Chandman was young back then.  He didn’t yell at people on his lawn until Gregg Williams. 😃

 

Dang Donahue!

Edited July 8, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[Billl]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Since you guys are determined to bump this fossil, here's some fuel:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/07/maurice-jones-drew-buffalo-bills-devin-singletary-zack-moss/

 

 

I said elsewhere and will say here. 

 

I agree, Josh Allen is probably the most talented rusher on the team. 

That's probably true of a number of other teams: Ravens (Lamar Jackson), Cardinals (Kyler Murray), New England (Cam Newton), Texans (Deshaun Watson), Seattle (Russ Wilson).  Even the Giants! (Daniel Jones) - which, Damn! Daniel -  was NOT supposed to be that way!

 

Does it bother Maurice Jones-Drew for these other teams as well?

 

If not, why not?

 

Josh Allen is becoming pretty widely acknowledged as having pretty high athletic talent.  He apparently trains off-season with the same running coach who trains Deshaun Watson.

 

 

 

Daniel Jones is a more talented runner than Saquan?  There's hot takes and then there's this.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

Daniel Jones is a more talented runner than Saquan?  There's hot takes and then there's this.

 

The "best ability is availability".  We're talking about last season here.  How many games did Barkley play in last season?  How many yards did he have?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarkSa00/gamelog/2020/

 

Maybe you might want to stow your snark and look into stuff a little before firing off.

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The "best ability is availability".  We're talking about last season here.  How many games did Barkley play in last season?  How many yards did he have?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarkSa00/gamelog/2020/

 

Maybe you might want to stow your snark and look into stuff a little before firing off.

It was a joke.  No offense meant.

[starrymessenger]

I’m not sure I would agree that Allen is the best rusher on the team, even if he has to date wound up being the most effective. For sure he’s a much better runner than Moss or Singletary are QBs though.