[Edited Title] CB AJ Bouye from Jags to Denver for 4th Round Pick

[PIZ]

50 minutes ago, Logic said:

25% of the cap on just the secondary?

Seems like a bad idea.

I'm glad we have Brandon Beane, who seems to be a salary cap savant, instead of John Elway.

I’m still thankful that Elway passed on Josh Allen. I thought for sure when they didn’t trade with Buffalo, that Elway was taking him. Allen reminded me of Elway pre draft. 
 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Beane doesn’t have to play the Chiefs and Gruden 2x/year.

 

Gruden? ?

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

31 minutes ago, PIZ said:

I’m still thankful that Elway passed on Josh Allen. I thought for sure when they didn’t trade with Buffalo, that Elway was taking him. Allen reminded me of Elway pre draft. 
 

He really liked Allen in the draft. I remember how much they showed him at Wyoming games.

[MJS]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Wow. What a great trade for Denver.

 

@MJS, this is the kind of fleecing that you can do to a team with cap issues; a bona fide starting CB for a day 4 pick.

 

Hope Beane is looking to do similar things.

Jags were willing to cut him. Should tell you that he isn't as good as some think. He struggled last year and there's no telling if he will bounce back.

[billsfan89]

Jags going on a fire sale, smart overall, they got a haul for Ramsey and should look to build towards a more fundamentally sound team. 

[MJS]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

If we can get Campbell for a later pick, that would be worth it. He's getting old, but he has another year or two left in him. Would give us time to find a good replacement.

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Beane doesn’t have to play the Chiefs and Gruden 2x/year.

Gruden? The Bills play the Pats twice a year. Not sure your point...

[whatdrought]

51 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Would be quite happy with Campbell for cheap. Norwell is interesting to me. He was an all-pro in Carolina and then disappeared in Jacksonville. I wouldn’t hate to try and redeem him, but I imagine his contract would be too $ for the risk. 

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Any time you get the opportunity to trade a fourth round pick for the right to pay $14,000,000 a year to a guy who gave up 9.8 yards per attempt, you've got to do it.  I mean only 171 players gave up fewer.

 

The entire defense underperformed this year.  Maybe you haven't paid much attention to the dumpster fire that Jacksonville has become recently. 

 

Bouye grades out as a top 15 DB by PFF.

[LSHMEAB]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yup. 

The Bills are in a PERFECT position to take on Foles contract to offset the capital they'd have to give up to acquire Yannick.

 

PERFECT position.

 

JA doesn't strike me as the kind of kid who'd be worried about Foles contract.

[wppete]

5 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Wow. What a great trade for Denver.

 

@MJS, this is the kind of fleecing that you can do to a team with cap issues; a bona fide starting CB for a day 4 pick.

 

Hope Beane is looking to do similar things.

Thats an expensive #2 CB. I’d rather draft one in the #2nd round and save roughly $12.5 million and deploy that money elsewhere.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, wppete said:

Thats an expensive #2 CB. I’d rather draft one in the #2nd round and save roughly $12.5 million and deploy that money elsewhere.

Ah, but can you be confident that the one you draft in the 2nd round will be as good?

 

Or, in more pertinent terms: can you be confident that any player you draft in round 4 will contribute what Bouye is likely to in 2020 (or beyond)?

[wppete]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

Ah, but can you be confident that the one you draft in the 2nd round will be as good?

 

Or, in more pertinent terms: can you be confident that any player you draft in round 4 will contribute what Bouye is likely to in 2020 (or beyond)?

Beane and Co. have proven the know how to scout and draft. Its all about where to deploy the money. Having 2 CBs getting payed top money is not they way to build. Tre White will prob be the highest paid CB in football next year. The smart thing to do is draft a young stud in the second and pay under $1million. 

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, 947 said:

Bouye is not worth $15.4M/year anymore.  He was pretty bad last year, compared to where he was 2 years ago. Getting a starting CB for a low pick sounds like robbery, but not if you have to grossly overpay him.

Its 2 year 27m and no guaranteed- pricy but compared to open market... at least you can cut and run if he doesn’t bounce back. That’s the value of the pick vs a big signing bonus 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, wppete said:

Beane and Co. have proven the know how to scout and draft. Its all about where to deploy the money. Having 2 CBs getting payed top money is not they way to build. Tre White will prob be the highest paid CB in football next year. The smart thing to do is draft a young stud in the second and pay under $1million. 

I would say that they’ve done well with their first round picks; aside from that the jury is very much out. Can’t count on nailing a 2nd round pick as a given.

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, wppete said:

Beane and Co. have proven the know how to scout and draft. Its all about where to deploy the money. Having 2 CBs getting payed top money is not they way to build. Tre White will prob be the highest paid CB in football next year. The smart thing to do is draft a young stud in the second and pay under $1million. 

a move like this is perfect for where we are in the build. You are talking like we are a vet team. We are in a window where we can have 3-4 of these guys and then josh/tres contracts slowly replace their hits as they come off the roster 

[wppete]

12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

a move like this is perfect for where we are in the build. You are talking like we are a vet team. We are in a window where we can have 3-4 of these guys and then josh/tres contracts slowly replace their hits as they come off the roster 

 

Good point. I prefer to draft the highest payed position with the top 3 picks and spend our money on the lines and depth. But I do trust Beane. 

 

[Turk71]

Bouye's last very good season was 2017, his last two seasons were not so good. Denver is banking on him regaining his 2017 form which seems like a risky proposition to me.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Turk71

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The entire defense underperformed this year.  Maybe you haven't paid much attention to the dumpster fire that Jacksonville has become recently. 

 

Bouye grades out as a top 15 DB by PFF.

If I'm a GM, I'm perfectly willing to trade away draft picks for players at times.  I'm also willing to pay top of the market for players at times.  What I'm never willing to do is trade away picks for the right to pay top of the market.  If I decide to make an exception, it's not for a guy who made a name for himself with a great season two years ago and two mediocre seasons since then.

[Turk71]

56 minutes ago, wppete said:

Thats an expensive #2 CB. I’d rather draft one in the #2nd round and save roughly $12.5 million and deploy that money elsewhere.

Especially expensive if he doesn't play a lot better than he has the last two seasons.

[Turk71]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The entire defense underperformed this year.  Maybe you haven't paid much attention to the dumpster fire that Jacksonville has become recently. 

 

Bouye grades out as a top 15 DB by PFF.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/aj-bouye/8110

  What are you talking about? Bouye was not highly rated on pff or anywhere else this past season, he was not good at all. Over 65% completion rate when targeted and over 9.5 yards per target is terrible.

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Really interesting trade. Bouye struggled a lot this year and wasn't anything special the year before either. Denver banking on him bouncing back obviously.

Bouye is very good when there's a bona fide #1 CB on the other side (Ramsey in Jax and Joseph in Houston). He would have been very good here with Tre and an instant upgrade. Not a surprise his play regressed once Ramsey jumped ship.

Edited March 4, 2020 by billsbackto81

[Hapless Bills Fan]

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[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

Bouye's last very good season was 2017, his last two seasons were not so good. Denver is banking on him regaining his 2017 form which seems like a risky proposition to me.

 

 

This.

 

Traded in conference for a 4th round pick?  Yea I'm sure the Jags are a dumpster fire but I'll bet they know this guy is a major reason why. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

25% of the cap on just the secondary?

Seems like a bad idea.

I'm glad we have Brandon Beane, who seems to be a salary cap savant, instead of John Elway.

LOL.  It's easy to cut players and throw away an entire season to give yourself cap space.  And Beane has a track record of overspending on free agents - Star, Murphy, Morse, and Long are all overpaid. Morse was an improvement at center but he is far from the best center in the league which is the contract Beane gave him.  I do think he has done a good job in how he has structured some of the contracts giving himself some outs.  Let's see how he spends this year.  

3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bouye is very good when there's a bona fide #1 CB on the other side (Ramsey in Jax and Joseph in Houston). He would have been very good here with Tre and an instant upgrade. Not a surprise his play regressed once Ramsey jumped ship.

Can you explain this?  It doesn't make any sense.  Having a #1 opposite him, means he will get more targets thrown his way.  Even if Ramsey shadowed their best WR (which no DB does for entire games - Tre only did sparingly) he would still see more passes thrown his way and really doesn't mean anything in terms of his ability to cover.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

“Mr. Caldwell, Brandon Beane on line 1”
*jumps, surprised someone knew he was in charge*
Dave: ”Oh heyyy Brandon sup how bout the combine, schedules sucked huh?”

Beane: Yeahhh hey who is available and what do you want for each?

Dave: Um you need to talk to Coughlin, one sec...

Beane: Coughlin is ... gone, bro. They put me through to you. 
Dave: Man, that’s wild. Well hold on let me get Chris Polian he handles all the player personnel stuff, I’m too ***** busy with the draft stuff 

Beane: Polian isn’t there anymore. Weren’t you involved? 
Dave: I wasn’t privy. *****. Not sure who to throw under the bus now. 

Beane: Yannick hates you. You will get fired for that foles contract. I’ll take them both off your hands if you give me a 2nd and Leonard fournette

Dave: man, you are the best. The City of Good Neighbors indeed.  I owe you one. 

 

So hope this happens, just for the sake of this lol.

 

 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Bouye was not good last year.  Denver obviously feels that was an aberration and he will be able to return to a higher level of play.  Given Elway's recent track record as a GM, I wouldn't bet the ranch on this turning out well.

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, Turk71 said:

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/aj-bouye/8110

  What are you talking about? Bouye was not highly rated on pff or anywhere else this past season, he was not good at all. Over 65% completion rate when targeted and over 9.5 yards per target is terrible.

 

Just checked.  That was 2017.  Oops.

 

I still wouldn't fault him entirely.  Jacksonville is a mess.

 

The Jags went from from 10-6 and the AFC Championship to 5-11 and 6-10 in subsequent years.  A once stellar defense has since fallen on its face and the stars of that defense are either gone, on their way out or have voiced that they want out.

[Captain Hindsight]

16 hours ago, Heitz said:

 

?

I trust Doug Marrone to turn the team around

[Logic]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

LOL.  It's easy to cut players and throw away an entire season to give yourself cap space.  And Beane has a track record of overspending on free agents - Star, Murphy, Morse, and Long are all overpaid. Morse was an improvement at center but he is far from the best center in the league which is the contract Beane gave him.  I do think he has done a good job in how he has structured some of the contracts giving himself some outs.  Let's see how he spends this year.  

 

LOL.

I'm sorry, but getting the Bills from where they were, salary cap wise, to where they are now, in just two years...absolutely illustrates why I'm happy the Bills have Brandon Beane. 

As far as his "track record of overspending on free agents", I have news for you: When you're a rebuilding team that hasn't touched the playoffs in 17 years and play in a cold and undesirable city, you're going to have to overpay a bit to get certain guys to come here. You can get bottom barrel, replacement level players for their "correct value", sure, but in order to get the Mitch Morses of the world via free agency, you're going to have to overpay. I would also argue that Morse is not overpaid. He is also no longer the highest paid center in the league. And if you want to argue that Star is overpaid, that's fine, but I'll take the top three defense the Bills have now -- of which Star is a crucial part -- and you can keep the lackluster unit that preceded his arrival. Deal?

Besides all of the above, my original post referred to overall salary cap management and position group allocation. If you were to go through the different position groups on the Bills roster, you wouldn't find any one position group that takes up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap. Why? Because Beane is good at managing the salary cap. Allocating 25% of the cap to one position group? Not smart cap management.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Bouye was not good last year.  Denver obviously feels that was an aberration and he will be able to return to a higher level of play.  Given Elway's recent track record as a GM, I wouldn't bet the ranch on this turning out well.

 

He actually has a good record of pro-personnel decisions. It is his drafting that has been poor.

[RyanC883]

18 hours ago, GG said:

Unfortunately they publicly said they want to keep both Campbell and Yannick.  

 

then Yannick tweeted that he's done in Jax!  

[thebandit27]

15 hours ago, MJS said:

Jags were willing to cut him. Should tell you that he isn't as good as some think. He struggled last year and there's no telling if he will bounce back.

So good players never get cut? Good players never have a down year?

 

Cmon...

[MJS]

45 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

So good players never get cut? Good players never have a down year?

 

Cmon...

Players who get cut and who have down years are not as valued as those who are consistently good and who teams are not willing to cut. Players like that are traded for higher picks. But, there are some crappy organizations in the NFL who do make head scratching decisions. Beane has fleeced a number of organizations by trading players who he would have cut otherwise.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

LOL.

I'm sorry, but getting the Bills from where they were, salary cap wise, to where they are now, in just two years...absolutely illustrates why I'm happy the Bills have Brandon Beane. 

As far as his "track record of overspending on free agents", I have news for you: When you're a rebuilding team that hasn't touched the playoffs in 17 years and play in a cold and undesirable city, you're going to have to overpay a bit to get certain guys to come here. You can get bottom barrel, replacement level players for their "correct value", sure, but in order to get the Mitch Morses of the world via free agency, you're going to have to overpay. I would also argue that Morse is not overpaid. He is also no longer the highest paid center in the league. And if you want to argue that Star is overpaid, that's fine, but I'll take the top three defense the Bills have now -- of which Star is a crucial part -- and you can keep the lackluster unit that preceded his arrival. Deal?

Besides all of the above, my original post referred to overall salary cap management and position group allocation. If you were to go through the different position groups on the Bills roster, you wouldn't find any one position group that takes up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap. Why? Because Beane is good at managing the salary cap. Allocating 25% of the cap to one position group? Not smart cap management.

Agree on not allocating 25% of the cap to one position group.

Just to be clear, Beane created the salary cap mess you are giving him credit for solving. He traded Watkins and Dareus accelerating their cap hits.  It is perfectly reasonable to make those moves, but you can't then forgive the impact on the salary cap. 

I'm a fan of Star, much more so than many on this board. But he, Murphy, and Morse are overpaid for their level of production. You may be correct that Beane needs to overpay to attract talent to Buffalo. 

As for the disproportionate positon groups, that could change in a heart beat. If they sign a high dollar free agent DL or WR there will be significant dollars assigned to those groups. Not saying that is wrong, but if you add AJ Green or Amari Cooper to John Brown and Cole Beasley.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He actually has a good record of pro-personnel decisions. It is his drafting that has been poor.

I look at it as all part of the job.  The episodes with Keenum and Flacco give me pause about Elway.  I do agree that drafting has been the poorest part of his performance.  If he wasn't a legend in Denver, he would have gotten the boot by now.  I hope they keep him forever.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I look at it as all part of the job.  The episodes with Keenum and Flacco give me pause about Elway.  I do agree that drafting has been the poorest part of his performance.  If he wasn't a legend in Denver, he would have gotten the boot by now.  I hope they keep him forever.

 

Agree he should be on the hotseat. He did win a Superbowl though - and he did a good job of loading up around Manning to make it happen. He has just pretty much sucked rebuilding the roster. Though I think there are bright sparks. If Drew Lock is the real deal I think they will be competitive in 2020.