Jump to content
BillsMafi$

Josh Norman released

Recommended Posts

Never heard of him, but...

ESPN's Marcel Louis-Jacques suggests the Bills as a landing spot for free agent Josh Norman.

This is dot-connecting, as Norman played for Sean McDermott during their time in Carolina. The Bills are in the market for a No. 2 corner with Levi Wallace and Kevin Johnson both free agents, so Norman to Buffalo makes some sense. After a disastrous 2019, Norman should settle for a prove-it deal this offseason.

RELATED: 
Feb 14, 2020, 7:12 PM ET

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buffalo86 said:

Never heard of him, but...

ESPN's Marcel Louis-Jacques suggests the Bills as a landing spot for free agent Josh Norman.

This is dot-connecting, as Norman played for Sean McDermott during their time in Carolina. The Bills are in the market for a No. 2 corner with Levi Wallace and Kevin Johnson both free agents, so Norman to Buffalo makes some sense. After a disastrous 2019, Norman should settle for a prove-it deal this offseason.

RELATED: 
Feb 14, 2020, 7:12 PM ET

MLJ doesn’t even take the time to realize Wallace is an ERFA, and is basically 100% going to be in Buffalo in 2020. I see the idea as everyone does. I think this might be one of those things Beane talked about in a presser basically talking the coaches out of certain guys because they know the guy personally or his coaches etc and to look at the film and see the player. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think I commented on this in another thread about signing Greg Olsen. Everyone is clamoring to cut Croom/Sweeney/Kroft/Smith if we sign him... why? 
 

I’d rather just keep 5 TE for camp that have all played meaningful NFL snaps and see what happens in a competition. Your entire team can’t be filled with superstars but if you can get some veteran talent that’s had some success and sprinkle it everywhere it’s never a bad thing. 
 

We’ve got like 56 players on our roster right now, all of which were part of the organization this past season during our playoff run... so a bunch of guys who know what it takes to win. Only a handful of FA, most of which will be back for cheap + $90M to spend and 9(?) draft picks... why not just stockpile assets and see what happens? 

 

Fair question.

 

Has someone really suggested cutting Sweeney?  I searched and did not find.  That would make no sense.  He's entering his 2nd season where players often show big growth, he's inexpensive, and he played well in the Jets game.  He does not play teams (at least, hasn't yet).    He's flashed, he's cheap, he's got plenty of room to grow.  Cutting him would be dumb, unless he's just totally out-competed in training camp and even then gotta ask "is the competition a pre-season hero?"

Croom, as I understand it, would be a FA if he hadn't been placed on IR so the Bills get another year of him if they want.  He's cheap.  In his single playing season 2018 (2nd year), he contributed roughly as many YPG and same catch % as rookie Sweeney.  In theory, there's no reason not to bring him into training camp.  In practice: suppose he does out-play Sweeney in camp.  Sweeney looked good in his rookie season against Jets starting D in a game they wanted to win last December and will be under contract for 2 years.  Croom spent his rookie season on the practice squad, hasn't seen the field since 2018 (at which point he contributed ~= rookie Sweeney) and has 1 more year only because he was IR'd in 2019.  If Croom out-plays Sweeney and you have to choose between them, just how sure are ya he isn't "pre-season hero" who will vanish when it's for real?  Fans don't like Croom on the team because he's famously dating the owner's daughter so they feel it's nepotism.  Cut Sweeney and lose his 2 years, watch Croom be "meh" in the season, and hear that roar.

 

Smith fills a different role on the team, primarily a blocker (though Man! he whiffed on a couple in the playoff game.  Ouch.)   He plays teams.  His penalties sucked, but he did seem to get "locked in" following Cle when McD called him out in a presser.  It's only a $500k roster bonus to bring him into training camp, so why not?  One reason: seeing Smith split out wide and running deep routes is inconsistent with the philosophy "put the best playmakers in position to make plays".  I am fine with keeping Smith, provided McDermott puts Daboll in a headlock and tells him he never, ever, ever wants to see that again.  Unless Smith catches a TD pass in which case he's a genius.  Heh.  JK, pass to D-Dawk instead.

 

Kroft is the only guy that IMO it really might make sense to move on from before TC if we sign another veteran TE.  The reason is $$.  $2M of his salary fully guarantees on the 5th day of the league year, plus a $750M signing bonus. He's a $6.6M cap hit next season, and his play last season simply did not live up to that, including in the final game of the season when Kroft played 50% of the snaps and Knox wore street clothes.  I saw some good blocking out of him, but he also got totally pwned at times, including on that key play where Mercilus strip-sacked Allen vs. Hou - that was "dang, Knox could of whiffed that".  Obviously, the coaches and trainers know more than we fans; it's entirely possible that Kroft was still rehabbing his injuries and playing hampered last season and will come back fully fit and ready to roar, but the same caveat "is he a TC lion?" might apply.  If cap is not an issue and if the team wants to make a $2.75M bet that's the case, Go For It. 

 

It would actually be fantastic to have 3 great TE who can block and catch next season and I'm for any means to make that happen.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are ppls thoughts on AJ Bouye? Lot of National and local Jags  Media expect him to be cut to save money. 28 years old. 6'0 190. I always thought of him as a borderline elite CB. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

What are ppls thoughts on AJ Bouye? Lot of National and local Jags  Media expect him to be cut to save money. 28 years old. 6'0 190. I always thought of him as a borderline elite CB. 

I love Bouye, he is super competitive and would be a great fit. I don’t see the Bills spending that type of money for a CB though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 10:02 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Yeah he’s an RFA and going nowhere 

 

He's no good.  A liability 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair question.

 

Has someone really suggested cutting Sweeney?  I searched and did not find.  That would make no sense.  He's entering his 2nd season where players often show big growth, he's inexpensive, and he played well in the Jets game.  He does not play teams (at least, hasn't yet).    He's flashed, he's cheap, he's got plenty of room to grow.  Cutting him would be dumb, unless he's just totally out-competed in training camp and even then gotta ask "is the competition a pre-season hero?"

Croom, as I understand it, would be a FA if he hadn't been placed on IR so the Bills get another year of him if they want.  He's cheap.  In his single playing season 2018 (2nd year), he contributed roughly as many YPG and same catch % as rookie Sweeney.  In theory, there's no reason not to bring him into training camp.  In practice: suppose he does out-play Sweeney in camp.  Sweeney looked good in his rookie season against Jets starting D in a game they wanted to win last December and will be under contract for 2 years.  Croom spent his rookie season on the practice squad, hasn't seen the field since 2018 (at which point he contributed ~= rookie Sweeney) and has 1 more year only because he was IR'd in 2019.  If Croom out-plays Sweeney and you have to choose between them, just how sure are ya he isn't "pre-season hero" who will vanish when it's for real?  Fans don't like Croom on the team because he's famously dating the owner's daughter so they feel it's nepotism.  Cut Sweeney and lose his 2 years, watch Croom be "meh" in the season, and hear that roar.

 

Smith fills a different role on the team, primarily a blocker (though Man! he whiffed on a couple in the playoff game.  Ouch.)   He plays teams.  His penalties sucked, but he did seem to get "locked in" following Cle when McD called him out in a presser.  It's only a $500k roster bonus to bring him into training camp, so why not?  One reason: seeing Smith split out wide and running deep routes is inconsistent with the philosophy "put the best playmakers in position to make plays".  I am fine with keeping Smith, provided McDermott puts Daboll in a headlock and tells him he never, ever, ever wants to see that again.  Unless Smith catches a TD pass in which case he's a genius.  Heh.  JK, pass to D-Dawk instead.

 

Kroft is the only guy that IMO it really might make sense to move on from before TC if we sign another veteran TE.  The reason is $$.  $2M of his salary fully guarantees on the 5th day of the league year, plus a $750M signing bonus. He's a $6.6M cap hit next season, and his play last season simply did not live up to that, including in the final game of the season when Kroft played 50% of the snaps and Knox wore street clothes.  I saw some good blocking out of him, but he also got totally pwned at times, including on that key play where Mercilus strip-sacked Allen vs. Hou - that was "dang, Knox could of whiffed that".  Obviously, the coaches and trainers know more than we fans; it's entirely possible that Kroft was still rehabbing his injuries and playing hampered last season and will come back fully fit and ready to roar, but the same caveat "is he a TC lion?" might apply.  If cap is not an issue and if the team wants to make a $2.75M bet that's the case, Go For It. 

 

It would actually be fantastic to have 3 great TE who can block and catch next season and I'm for any means to make that happen.

 

 

Fantastic break down!

 

I did see mention of cutting Sweeney but I honestly can’t remember where... I read so many threads when I’m bored lol. Certain things stick in my mind haha 

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Fantastic break down!

I did see mention of cutting Sweeney but I honestly can’t remember where... I read so many threads when I’m bored lol. Certain things stick in my mind haha 

 

I don't disbelieve you.  Our search function could "use ketchup", and fans this time of year propose all sorts of cuts that really make no sense until roster cut-down.

I think we're partly conditioned by years of scraping the cap, but that doesn't explain any proposal to cut Sweeney!

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 10:26 AM, JGMcD2 said:

It’s because Levi struggled for a stretch last season and most posters on this board aren’t ok with the ups and downs that occur week to week or season to season in the NFL. Player has to be an All-Pro consistently or else they’re worthless. 
 

It’s called being a fan and not having any ability to detach and assess, or evaluate talent. 

 

Lack of ability to detach and assess and evaluate talent as a fan..........as opposed to a professional football analyst like Sam Monson of PFF which "tracks every snap of every player in every game and issues grades accordingly and dispassionately" using criteria based on some stuff that didn't happen like "turnover worthy throws" (but maybe not other stuff that didn't happen like drops or catchable balls that weren't).

 

PFF does claim all 32 NFL teams as clients. 

 

Ahem, sorry.  Got my heel caught on a soapbox there.

 

Your point about fans being reactive week to week and lacking ability to detach and assess is perfectly valid of course.  Just pointing out that the other end of the spectrum, tracking every snap of every player in every game and issuing grades dispassionately, can be equally flawed in a different direction, depending upon the quality of the assessment tools and the grading criteria.  GIGO still applies.

 

The "sweet spot" is, I'm sure, somewhere in the middle, where coaches and scouts watch players with an experienced eye and the knowledge of what their assignment actually was on the play, then grade performance using that knowledge and objective criteria.  Even coaches and scouts from other teams can't replicate that.

 

I think Levi Wallace is a talented player who gave the Bills excellent value at CB for being an UDFA and for his salary.  I think we missed him against Houston.  I believe fans are down on him because, let's face it, we inevitably compare him to Tre' White, and Levi Wallace is no Tre' White.  I'd love an upgrade, but IMHO the best immediate upgrade for the Bills would be more consistent pressure in the the middle and more pass rush because, as Terry Bradshaw once put it, "it's hard to throw completions when you're sitting on your ass."  Bills should ABSOLUTELY tender Wallace as an ERFA if they haven't already and use a three-pronged approach to edge: resign Shaq, go after anyone they like in FA, and draft the best player available to them at edge in one of the first 3 rounds.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fwiw, the big mention of cutting Sweeney is the OP for the 'using spotrac tool, releases and solutions'.

 

As regards Norman, if his former HC isn't interested in retaining him, I'm not sure we should be interested in signing him. While I don't watch many other games than the Bills, I do pay attention to what people say about players around the league, and my impression is that Norman hasn't lived up to his contract, and by a decent margin.

 

I wouldn't say the Bills won't have some interest, as iirc, McDermott was key in both drafting and developing Norman, and he obviously knows how to get the best out of him.

 

I will say if they do look hard at him, it will be for cheap money (relatively speaking).

 

The way it appears we set up our zone coverage, is that you want someone like Tre, who can play man well, so you can mix lots of other coverages up. The only way we get two top 'man' corners, is through the draft. We will, I'm sure, pay White as a top corner (he obviously is) because he gives our D more flexibility. Aside from Tre, the rest of the guys will be getting something much more in line with the reduced salaries paid to 'zone' corners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather bring back Wallace and Johnson but if Norman wanted a 1 year 1 million deal and try to make the roster even as a 5th corner I'm all for it. But something tells me that's not something Norman is interested in at the moment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His abilities have declined rapidly since 2017. He should retire.

On 2/15/2020 at 10:38 AM, CommonCents said:

I love Bouye, he is super competitive and would be a great fit. I don’t see the Bills spending that type of money for a CB though. 

You don't think they'd spend money on such an important position? Why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Buddo said:

Fwiw, the big mention of cutting Sweeney is the OP for the 'using spotrac tool, releases and solutions'.

 

As regards Norman, if his former HC isn't interested in retaining him, I'm not sure we should be interested in signing him. While I don't watch many other games than the Bills, I do pay attention to what people say about players around the league, and my impression is that Norman hasn't lived up to his contract, and by a decent margin.

 

I wouldn't say the Bills won't have some interest, as iirc, McDermott was key in both drafting and developing Norman, and he obviously knows how to get the best out of him.

 

I will say if they do look hard at him, it will be for cheap money (relatively speaking).

 

The way it appears we set up our zone coverage, is that you want someone like Tre, who can play man well, so you can mix lots of other coverages up. The only way we get two top 'man' corners, is through the draft. We will, I'm sure, pay White as a top corner (he obviously is) because he gives our D more flexibility. Aside from Tre, the rest of the guys will be getting something much more in line with the reduced salaries paid to 'zone' corners.

We’ll never know of course, but Norman was likely cut largely because of the cap savings; not necessarily because Rivera doesn’t think he can play.

 

Likewise, we wouldn’t be interested in him at his previous contract but could theoretically be interested at a cheap salary. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 9:37 AM, klos63 said:

after 4 crappy seasons? Gonna be 33 this season. Don't know why we'd be too interested.

 

nothing more than a training camp depth player at this point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 9:38 AM, aristocrat said:

does he still have game?  doesn't have to be the main guy here.  

 

 

If he stays on the team through halftime, then we've got a winner.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...