Brees ponders retirement; Saints see Hill as 2021 starter?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Brees, Rivers, Brady all should retire. The time has come. 

Eli Manning is like Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[billsfan_34]

15 hours ago, Utah John said:

Rivers has moved his family to far western Florida, near the Alabama state line.  (This is a beautiful area, by the way.)  The closest NFL franchise to that location is New Orleans.  Just saying.

Loved it there! Stationed in Pensacola for 4 years. It was by far my best duty station.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Taysom Hill has a pretty similar skill set to the league MVP this year. I'm sure the would welcome Brees back, but if he decides to move on, I'd draft Tayson Hill pretty high in FF

 

From looking at what I've seen so far....not that close, but I did enjoy the posted highlights.  Fun to watch..... needs to prove he can pass in games.

 

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

Rogers is over rated. That doesn't mean he's not good, but the praise, status and fame he has doesn't match his accomplishments. 

 

His story does show the power of having a ring, though. 

 

It was popular for a while to call him the "best QB in the league." That always bugged me in a world where Brady and Peyton combined for 13 AFC titles and 8 Super Bowl wins while Rogers watched on his couch with his 1 appearance and 1 win. 

 

As far as Brees goes, I hope he plays just to put the records out of Brady's reach. It won't matter long-term, because Mahomes could break those records 15 years into his career and still have a handful left. 

 

I think there's a distinction between "best QB" (in terms of ability to read the D, manipulate the D, extend the play, make the throw, be clutch) and "best team".

Number of AFC titles and Super Bowl championships is more a measure of "team" than "QB"

 

That said, it's pretty hard to have a convo about "best QB" of this era without putting in Peyton.

[BuffaloHokie13]

17 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

FWIW, the sense that Brees is retiring has really caught traction over the last week or so here. I don’t buy it but buy it more than I did a month ago. I’m not sure where it came from but those that follow the Saints closely think it’s possible.

Relevant to yesterday's hypothetical. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

He can’t retire, Brady will get the TD record. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Chaos said:

1. Bridgewater is better. than Hill. The Saints know it. 
2. Brees is better than Bridgewater.
3. The Saints, a very well run organization, can't afford Bridgewater and Hill and Brees.
4. Saints are not prepared to commit to Bridgewater as Brees replacement (and the painful 2020 season roster changes that entails related to having 2 highly expensive QBs). This is the exact sort of player stockpiling the salary cap is designed to prevent.
5. Notwithstanding Bridgewater's fine backup performance, Hill is far more important for a 2020 last hurrah with Brees, than Bridgewater is. If Brees gets hurt again, then the hurrah is over. Based on Brees retirement comments, the next injury is likely career ending. 
6. Since Bridgewater is just too expensive to retain for 2020, he is by default not part of the Saints future. 
7. Hill will be on the roster, so he becomes the QB until the Saints find someone better, which is not now, but could very well be likely in the 2021 off-season.

 

That seems like a sensible breakdown of the situation - assuming Brees does not retire.

If he does retire, then, do you think they'll push to re-sign Bridgewater?

[GoBills808]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rodgers season was almost identical to Brady’s. 

Wat

[NoSaint]

13 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

Why would Hill be that much of a stretch? Many backup QBs never see the field. Did you see a lot of Tyrod Taylor before he started for the Bills? Or Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, etc.?

 

He might NOT be the answer at all, but his lack of "true QB" role so far is no indication one way or the other. And he is a freak athlete and well, Lamar has shown what can be done with that. 

 

 

well, if flacco missed 5 weeks and tyrod completed 1 pass for 18 yards in that stretch youd naturally question how much his staff really loved his passing ability  

[MJS]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Sean Payton is genuinely infatuated with Hill. I don't get it myself but I also don't know football as well as Sean Payton. 

Hill was pretty exciting in college but he always got hurt. So that's why he was never on anyone's radar. He couldn't finish a season, or even get far into one.

 

If anyone knows what he's capable of, it's Sean Payton. But you'd think he would have started him with Brees injured if he really believed Hill was a starting caliber QB. So that's why I think the Saints wouldn't go that route.

[MJS]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think there's a distinction between "best QB" (in terms of ability to read the D, manipulate the D, extend the play, make the throw, be clutch) and "best team".

Number of AFC titles and Super Bowl championships is more a measure of "team" than "QB"

 

That said, it's pretty hard to have a convo about "best QB" of this era without putting in Peyton.

 

I don't see any scenario where Rodgers could be considered a better QB than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, personally. And I never liked it when Rodgers was referred to as the best. I just think all around QBing they were better. What Rodgers has over them is one thing, and that's mobility.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I don't see any scenario where Rodgers could be considered a better QB than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, personally. And I never liked it when Rodgers was referred to as the best. I just think all around QBing they were better. What Rodgers has over them is one thing, and that's mobility.

Rodgers is easily the best QB of all time imo

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rodgers is easily the best QB of all time imo

Easily is a pretty bold word to use

[GoBills808]

Just now, NoSaint said:

Easily is a pretty bold word to use

Just said it tho

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know, Brees has a MASSIVE ego as well. All great QBs do.

 

With that being said Brees is a much better player at this point than Brady. If he played all 16 games this year he was on pace for: 74.3% completion, 4,333 yards, 39 TD passes, 6 INTs. 
 

Brady over 16 games in 2019: 60.8% completion, 4,057 yards, 24 TD passes, 8 INTs

 

 

I don't think that's at all clear. Brady's stats had an awful lot to do with the personnel around him. He can still throw with steam, probably with more steam than Brees.

 

Saying that, I hope you're right but I don't think so. In that last game, Minny seemed to be willing to let Brees try to make those long sideline throws, confident he couldn't do it consistently on them anymore.

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Agreed.  The narrative here has been that Brady is done, yet Rodgers is still hyped widely.  They had similar results this year.  Both tail ends of careers.

 

 

Rodgers is still playing really well, and in the first year of a newish system. Age is the reason they're treated differently. 36 doesn't mean you're done these days.

[GoBills808]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Rodgers is still playing really well, and in the first year of a newish system. Age is the reason they're treated differently. 36 doesn't mean you're done these days.

Also...they didn’t really have ‘similar results’.

[nucci]

On 1/30/2020 at 8:36 AM, Sundancer said:

 

Rodgers and Brees still dominated this year. And Rodgers did it with minimal weapons. 

 

 

Rodgers didn't dominate anything

Edited January 31, 2020 by nucci

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Also...they didn’t really have ‘similar results’.

Brady and Rodgers?

 

Brady: 60.8%, 4,057 yards, 24 TDs, 8 INTs, 88 rating, 52.5 QBR

 

Rodgers: 62%, 4,002 yards, 26 TDs, 4 INTs, 95.4 rating, 53.5 QBR

 

You've made it clear that you love Rodgers but those numbers aren’t all that different.
 

Brees is the outlier of that group (16 game pace):

 

Brees: 74.3%, 4,333 yards, 39 TDs, 6 INTs, 116.3 rating, 74.2 QBR

[GoBills808]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Brady and Rodgers?

 

Brady: 60.8%, 4,057 yards, 24 TDs, 8 INTs, 88 rating, 52.5 QBR

 

Rodgers: 62%, 4,002 yards, 26 TDs, 4 INTs, 95.4 rating, 53.5 QBR

 

You've made it clear that you love Rodgers but those numbers aren’t all that different.
 

Brees is the outlier of that group (16 game pace):

 

Brees: 74.3%, 4,333 yards, 39 TDs, 6 INTs, 116.3 rating, 74.2 QBR

Those are very different numbers. Even on the face of them as presented.

 

Brady was also 27th in the league in YPA. It took him 44 more attempts, basically an entire game's worth, to put him the 55 total yards accounted for in your figure.

 

This is all notwithstanding the fact that he was in the same system w/McDaniels he's played in his entire career basically, whereas Rodgers and LaFleur were sort of making it up as they went w/a banged up Davante Adams and one of the worst wideout rooms in the league.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 1/29/2020 at 10:07 PM, The Jokeman said:

Ha! That be ironic. Yet think he moved there more due to taxes and the proximity to his childhood home in Alabama.

Eekd I had flashbacks of Tyrod Taylor with that statement.

As someone who was far from a Taylor fan, the hate he gets so freaking stupid.

On 1/29/2020 at 9:35 PM, Buffalo619 said:

Brees, Rivers, Brady all should retire. The time has come. 

Why?  If they want to keep playing, why shouldn’t they?  Brees was the 2nd ranked passer in the nfl.  Brady, in a “bad” year, would had one of the best seasons of any Bills qb in franchise history.  Rivers, probably the worse of the group almost threw for 5,000 yards.  
 

these guys aren’t what they were but they are still better than the far majority of qbs.  I like good qbs and there aren’t enough of them.

 

and there is zero way the Saints are ever going to make Hill their full time starter.  He was slightly mediocre in college.  He’s not close to a good enough passer to ever be a full time qb.

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't see any scenario where Rodgers could be considered a better QB than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, personally. And I never liked it when Rodgers was referred to as the best. I just think all around QBing they were better. What Rodgers has over them is one thing, and that's mobility.

Rodgers “lost” playoffs games where his defense gave up 51, 37, 45,44, and 37 points.  Better team, he has a few more rings.  You’re splitting hairs when comparing them but Brady always had a much stronger defense and Manning was awful for his second SB run.  

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Those are very different numbers. Even on the face of them as presented.

 

Brady was also 27th in the league in YPA. It took him 44 more attempts, basically an entire game's worth, to put him the 55 total yards accounted for in your figure.

 

This is all notwithstanding the fact that he was in the same system w/McDaniels he's played in his entire career basically, whereas Rodgers and LaFleur were sort of making it up as they went w/a banged up Davante Adams and one of the worst wideout rooms in the league.

He has a better WR room than Brady. Additionally, he has a vastly superior running game that teams need to respect. This feels like  cherry picking stats to put through a narrative that they were vastly different players. They weren’t. They were elite game managers and borderline top 10 QBs. Neither was elite this past year and not really that close.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has a better WR room than Brady. Additionally, he has a vastly superior running game that teams need to respect. This feels like  cherry picking stats to put through a narrative that they were vastly different players. They weren’t. They were elite game managers and borderline top 10 QBs. Neither was elite this past year and not really that close.

I never claimed either performed at an elite level last season, I disputed that they had similar years.

 

Rogers has better wideouts than Brady? Adams is a good player but hurt this year...he was throwing to a combination of Geronimo Allison, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, and Allen Lazard. How is that better than Edelman/Sanu/Harry/Dorsette? 

 

Better run game, for sure. But I don't think you want to go down the rabbithole of how a run game props up a QB unless you want to get into questioning guys like Jackson/Wilson/Tannehill and the years they had...it's something to consider but I wouldn't use it to make a point about QB effectiveness because they're too intertwined. 

 

Simply put Brady is no longer a top10 guy by QB efficiency or effectiveness: he had the better weapons and vastly more comfortable situation re:scheme continuity and his ANY/A put him at 17th in the league. Rodgers was sitting at 11th which is not great but he had the tougher row to hoe. 

[Manther]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:35 PM, Buffalo619 said:

Brees, Rivers, Brady all should retire. The time has come. 

I think Rivers and Brady are done.  Their arms look like a noodle.  Reminds me of Marino’s last year.  I think Brees can play another year.

[stuvian]

Brees is a surefire HOFer but when they have to bring in a back up to throw a long ball you know it's time to go. 

[Manther]

On 1/30/2020 at 8:14 AM, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

which one's EGO will make him play more?

 

my bet is Tainted Tom.  He claims he still has a lot to prove. ?

Agreed 

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, Manther said:

I think Rivers and Brady are done.  Their arms look like a noodle.  Reminds me of Marino’s last year.  I think Brees can play another year.

im not sure he’s much better off with his arm but he’s always been more touch than hear and with Mike Thomas, kamara and cook he’s got one of the better short space trios in the league 

 

[T master]

Well if he does come back it sure ain't because he needs the money he has enough to live out the rest of his life very comfy & probably made enough for his kids to not have to work the rest of their lives to if they invest it the right way .

 

Or it might take him a month to count his money to make the decision weather or not he needs more to do what he wants to while in retirement ...?

Edited February 4, 2020 by T master

[LabattBlue]

On 2/1/2020 at 3:46 PM, stuvian said:

Brees is a surefire HOFer but when they have to bring in a back up to throw a long ball you know it's time to go. 

Does it really matter when Brees can still destroy a defense with passes less than 20 yards from the LoS? 

[Augie]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:35 PM, Buffalo619 said:

Brees, Rivers, Brady all should retire. The time has come. 

 

Should.....for you? I get what you’re saying, their best days are behind them. Very true. Even they can’t argue that. But it’s a very personal decision. Regardless of my career earnings, it’s hard to walk away from $25~ million. Maybe even more important, it’s hard to walk away form the thing that has been the center of your universe (family excluded) since you were a child. The locker room, the guys, the thrill, the competition, game days, etc. 

 

It’s a tough call, and I won’t judge anyone for their decision. On a selfish note, I hope Brady plays another decade, declining every year, but I’m not a very good person.    

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:05 AM, MJS said:

 

I don't see any scenario where Rodgers could be considered a better QB than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, personally. And I never liked it when Rodgers was referred to as the best. I just think all around QBing they were better. What Rodgers has over them is one thing, and that's mobility.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 2:10 AM, GoBills808 said:

Rodgers is easily the best QB of all time imo

In this order:

Brees

Rodgers

Manning

 

*Brady

Edited February 5, 2020 by Sherlock Holmes

[Mr. WEO]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:49 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Rodgers is still playing really well, and in the first year of a newish system. Age is the reason they're treated differently. 36 doesn't mean you're done these days.

 

 

He's playing like a 42 year old Brady.

[LSHMEAB]

I call total BS.

 

If Hill was the QB of the future, why was he sitting behind Bridgewater when Brees went down?

 

He needs more time to develop as a passer? The guy is almost 30! 

 

Sounds like they just don't want to lose him.

Edited February 5, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[Mr. WEO]

On 1/31/2020 at 12:32 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Rodgers “lost” playoffs games where his defense gave up 51, 37, 45,44, and 37 points.  Better team, he has a few more rings.  You’re splitting hairs when comparing them but Brady always had a much stronger defense and Manning was awful for his second SB run.  

 

 

Nope.

[C.Biscuit97]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nope.

You love being wrong.  ?

 

average points given up in playoffs started by Brady is 20.6.  Average points given up in Rodgers’ playoff starts is 28.9.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:07 PM, The Jokeman said:

Ha! That be ironic. Yet think he moved there more due to taxes and the proximity to his childhood home in Alabama.

Eekd I had flashbacks of Tyrod Taylor with that statement.

Tyrod QB'd the most exciting and productive offense Buffalo has had since Kelly retired.  Hate him all you want but its still true.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Tyrod QB'd the most exciting and productive offense Buffalo has had since Kelly retired.  Hate him all you want but its still true.

 

Productive, when?  When we needed them to be productive?

[Jauronimo]

36 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Productive, when?  When we needed them to be productive?

Yes, more productive than his predecessors and his successor.  When? During the seasons he was QB. 

 

If you disagree, make your case for someone else. 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Yes, more productive than his predecessors and his successor.  When? During the seasons he was QB. 

 

If you disagree, make your case for someone else. 

 

I'm disagreeing that he was productive, nor that he was more productive than his predecessors.  And that's not what I questioned.

 

Did the Tyrod Taylor-led productive and exciting offense score points when the Bills needed them most?  That was my question.

 

I don't care about excitement and productivity unless they are exciting and productive drives that win football games.

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You love being wrong.  ?

 

average points given up in playoffs started by Brady is 20.6.  Average points given up in Rodgers’ playoff starts is 28.9.

 

 

 

In 2003, NE D gave up 29 points in the SB (won).

in 2004, 27 to Pitt, 21 to Eagles in the SB (won)

In 2006 38 to Indy in AFCC (lost)

In 2012, 28 and 28 (and losing AFCC)

In 2014, 31 to Ravens and 24 to Seahawks to win SB

In 2016 28 to ATL in SB (won)

In 2017 41 to Eagles in SB (lost)

In 2018 28 to Chargers, 31 to KC