"The Mad Bomber" Lamonica weighs in on JA17

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Never

 

All righty then, thank you for clearing that up.  In that case, should definitely never have traded Lamonica.

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

All righty then, thank you for clearing that up.  In that case, should definitely never have traded Lamonica.

Or the pick used to draft Mahomes. 

[Greybeard]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

@2020 Our Year For Sure

 

1) Won 2 AFL championships

2) made OJ highest paid NFL player

3) Made Jim highest paid NFL player

4) 90s Bills were called million dollar bills

5) Derrick Dockery became Highest paid NFL guard

6) Mario Williams became Highest paid defender in league history

7) Gave Dareus 100 million dollars

? HoF owner

 

None of that equals cheap or not trying.. it's called he spent money on the wrong people

 

Made OJ the highest paid in the 70s, Jim in the 80s , Mario Highest paid defender when he signed..  he always threw around money just not at the right people

 

Literally HE IS THE BILLS

           It seems forgotten that he bailed out the Raiders in the early years of the AFL.

 

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2014/3/25/5547182/oakland-raiders-wouldnt-exist-without-ralph-wilson

Edited January 22, 2020 by Greybeard

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

           It seems forgotten that he bailed out the Raiders in the early years of the AFL.

 

 

And the Patriots I believe as well.

[Gugny]

40 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Or the pick used to draft Mahomes. 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

 

You don't find nice neighbors like that anymore.  Did your Mom have a laugh about that?

I have great neighbors.  When I was away Thanksgiving week we had almost 2 feet of snow and my next door neighbor cleared my driveway & walkway.  He also had done that when I was sick in the winter of 2017-18 and couldn't clean my driveway until March 2018.  

 

My mother told that story the rest of her life and laughed about it, although at the time she was pretty mad at me for not getting their friend's name. 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hahahahah Ralph made OJ the highest paid player in the NFL, made Jim Kelly the highest paid NFL player. 

 

The early 90s teams were called the million dollar bills... The early 2000s Ralph made Derrick dockery the highest paid guard in NFL history

 

Few years later made Mario Williams the highest paid defensive player in NFL history

 

And he kept the Bills here for like 50 years...

 

That's the most ignorant opinion ever and Ralph IS THE BUFFALO BILLS

Come on man!  Sure you can be grateful to Ralph for keeping the team in Buffalo, but to deny he was a little tight with his money and did some very strange things as owner is just selective memory.

 

For most of the Bills 1st 30 years Ralph was cheap and the typical cycle was the team was bad, attendance suffered, Ralph saw all the empty seats and decided he had to spend money, the team got to be pretty good, Ralph alienated the person most responsible for the team being good, the alienated guy left, the team got bad again and attendance suffered, Ralph realized he had to spend $ and hired new people, the team got good again-rinse & repeat.  

These are some of the things Ralph did in those 1st 30 years and then some afterwards: 

 

In the 1960s there was the whole debacle where Ralph neutered John Rauch to the point Rauch quit in preseason.  

 

OJ held out before signing that rich contract.  Ralph had little choice but to pay OJ, who was the face of the franchise.

 

The Bills became the 1st & only team in NFL history to lose a bidding war for the services of the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft to the CFL when Tom Cousineau signed with Montreal.  This led to Chuck Knox being pretty angry and was the 1st thing that led to Knox's leaving after the 1982 season.   

 

Ralph never had success with head coaches in their 1st head coaching job.  That's because he was too cheap and for years had coaches at the bottom of the NFL's coaching pay scale.  Either the coach was a retread in need of a job or was a guy he could get away paying peanuts to.  The exceptions were when the team got really bad and nobody was going to the games, then he'd spend $ for a guy like Chuck Knox.  He had a lot of cheap coaches over the years.  He got lucky when he hired Polian who was close to Levy, but even Levy originally came at a discounted price.  

 

When the USFL was around, he lost his starting RB Joe Cribbs and Jim Kelly because he was outbid.  He only made Kelly the highest paid QB because he had to either sign Kelly or stare at 40,000 empty seats on Sundays.  The Bills lost 3 years of Kelly's career because of Ralphs miserly ways.  

 

Even after the success that the 1990s Bills had, he fired Bill Polian, the unquestioned greatest GM in Bills history, because Polian didn't want to have to listen to "scout" Linda Bogdan, Ralph's daughter.  

 

Hiring Marv Levy & Buddy Nix as GMs: come on man!  

 

Yes Ralph did a lot of good, but his cheap & meddling ways led to a lot of seasons where the Bills were the NFL's laughingstock, especially in the 1st 30 years of the franchise.   I'm sure if I wanted to go through the Bills history I could find a lot more examples than the few I listed.  If you have the time get a copy of Relentless and read through it & then come back and tell us that Ralph wasn't cheap & didn't meddle far too much.  

 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Albany,n.y. said:

Come on man!  Sure you can be grateful to Ralph for keeping the team in Buffalo, but to deny he was a little tight with his money and did some very strange things as owner is just selective memory.

 

For most of the Bills 1st 30 years Ralph was cheap and the typical cycle was the team was bad, attendance suffered, Ralph saw all the empty seats and decided he had to spend money, the team got to be pretty good, Ralph alienated the person most responsible for the team being good, the alienated guy left, the team got bad again and attendance suffered, Ralph realized he had to spend $ and hired new people, the team got good again-rinse & repeat.  

These are some of the things Ralph did in those 1st 30 years and then some afterwards: 

 

In the 1960s there was the whole debacle where Ralph neutered John Rauch to the point Rauch quit in preseason.  

 

OJ held out before signing that rich contract.  Ralph had little choice but to pay OJ, who was the face of the franchise.

 

The Bills became the 1st & only team in NFL history to lose a bidding war for the services of the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft to the CFL when Tom Cousineau signed with Montreal.  This led to Chuck Knox being pretty angry and was the 1st thing that led to Knox's leaving after the 1982 season.   

 

Ralph never had success with head coaches in their 1st head coaching job.  That's because he was too cheap and for years had coaches at the bottom of the NFL's coaching pay scale.  Either the coach was a retread in need of a job or was a guy he could get away paying peanuts to.  The exceptions were when the team got really bad and nobody was going to the games, then he'd spend $ for a guy like Chuck Knox.  He had a lot of cheap coaches over the years.  He got lucky when he hired Polian who was close to Levy, but even Levy originally came at a discounted price.  

 

When the USFL was around, he lost his starting RB Joe Cribbs and Jim Kelly because he was outbid.  He only made Kelly the highest paid QB because he had to either sign Kelly or stare at 40,000 empty seats on Sundays.  The Bills lost 3 years of Kelly's career because of Ralphs miserly ways.  

 

Even after the success that the 1990s Bills had, he fired Bill Polian, the unquestioned greatest GM in Bills history, because Polian didn't want to have to listen to "scout" Linda Bogdan, Ralph's daughter.  

 

Hiring Marv Levy & Buddy Nix as GMs: come on man!  

 

Yes Ralph did a lot of good, but his cheap & meddling ways led to a lot of seasons where the Bills were the NFL's laughingstock, especially in the 1st 30 years of the franchise.   I'm sure if I wanted to go through the Bills history I could find a lot more examples than the few I listed.  If you have the time get a copy of Relentless and read through it & then come back and tell us that Ralph wasn't cheap & didn't meddle far too much.  

 

 

 

No I don't agree and continuing to throw the word cheap around when he kept the team here is classless

[Albany,n.y.]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

No I don't agree and continuing to throw the word cheap around when he kept the team here is classless

No it's not.  Ralph was cheap and to deny it is revisionist history-class has nothing to do with stating historical facts.  You really need to get that copy of Relentless to see the many things he did that resulted in many losing seasons.  

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

No it's not.  Ralph was cheap and to deny it is revisionist history-class has nothing to do with stating historical facts.  You really need to get that copy of Relentless to see the many things he did that resulted in many losing seasons.  

He could've sold us years ago and there would be no Bills

 

Ralph wasn't a perfect owner but I made plenty of valid points in earlier posts

 

I'm not arguing this point anymore because your bashing a dead man who loved my city

Edited January 22, 2020 by Buffalo716

[oldmanfan]

Jumping on a dead man’s grave is never a good idea.  Ralph had his share of faults but Buffalo is a major league city because of him, he had lasting impact on the league as supported by him being in the HOF, and his charitable contributions to many in WNY are a fitting legacy.

 

But as to the Mad Bomber, I used to go to Cardinal O’Hara with my dad every year to watch the Bills off-season basketball team play the faculty in a charity game.  My dad reffed the games each year, so I would get to hang out in the locker room with the players.  Lamonica was a really nice guy, easy for a little kid to talk to as were most all the guys.  That trade was a nightmare.

[Stanley Lombardi]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Jumping on a dead man’s grave is never a good idea.  Ralph had his share of faults but Buffalo is a major league city because of him, he had lasting impact on the league as supported by him being in the HOF, and his charitable contributions to many in WNY are a fitting legacy.

 

 

Wherever Ralph turned, the grass was getting greener -- over there...and there...and there.  But his heart kept the team in a shrinking market when his wallet urged him to move.

Ralph was a complex man, a hard-headed man, and nobody's fool.  Say it however you might, Buffalo has been exceedingly lucky and/or blessed to have the Wilsons and now the Pegulas.  

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Once we have let go the Lamonica trade, we can start thinking about letting the Mahomes deal go. 

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

6 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

“JA17”?

 

We’re, uh, doin that now? 

YE OLE can hear the post game pressers now...
 

Sal: Josh, can you walk us through that play right at the end of the half... what was going on there?

 

Josh Allen: “Overall JA17 played a pretty solid game out there, but obviously JA17 might want to have that play back...”

[Helpmenow]

Art Powell was done when he was traded here. Oakland fleeced the bills.

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I guess you should tell a mod that the title is misleading you.

Where is this coming from?

[SirAndrew]

2 hours ago, Blue on Blue said:

 

Wherever Ralph turned, the grass was getting greener -- over there...and there...and there.  But his heart kept the team in a shrinking market when his wallet urged him to move.

Ralph was a complex man, a hard-headed man, and nobody's fool.  Say it however you might, Buffalo has been exceedingly lucky and/or blessed to have the Wilsons and now the Pegulas.  

Ralph was an “old money” kind of a guy. The type of wealthy man of which few exist these days. He was never flashy or concerned with trying to outspend others. That mentality differentiated him from what the NFL had become, but I truly believe his heart was in the right place, and that can be a rare trait. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by SirAndrew

[longtimebillsfan]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember when trading Lamonica used to be the biggest personnel mistake in Bills history.

 

He had a hell of a run in Oakland but never won them a SB.

During his run in Oakland,  the Bills were terrible.   It was really difficult to see him do so well in black and silver. 

[Uncle Joe]

19 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

That was one of the early QB controversies.  Daryl & Jack Kemp.  Who should start, who should finish, who's better, etc. etc.  A lot of very animated bar conversation out of that.

I was only 10...

[MJS]

23 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

 When the USFL was around, he lost his starting RB Joe Cribbs and Jim Kelly because he was outbid.  He only made Kelly the highest paid QB because he had to either sign Kelly or stare at 40,000 empty seats on Sundays.  The Bills lost 3 years of Kelly's career because of Ralphs miserly ways.

 

 

The USFL was run into the ground because they spent lavishly on players to directly compete with the NFL, Donald Trump chief amongst the offenders.

[BADOLBILZ]

20 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Where is this coming from?

 

 

It came from you not reading the OP.

 

AGAIN.........the thread was created to direct TBD'ers to a linked story where Lamonica talks about his playing days and gives a take on Allen. 

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

IF Daryl Lamonica had stayed a BILL, we would have been in SB I instead of Kansas City.  Maybe SB II & III too.

[IDBillzFan]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:34 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

I have great neighbors.  When I was away Thanksgiving week we had almost 2 feet of snow and my next door neighbor cleared my driveway & walkway.  He also had done that when I was sick in the winter of 2017-18 and couldn't clean my driveway until March 2018.  

 

I'm surrounded by amazing neighbors.

 

This is my first time owning a house that gets snow. We moved in last May. My driveway winds up a hill about a quarter-mile long, so a few months ago I lined up a guy with a plowing service. 

 

We've had four snowfalls so far that have required plowing. I haven't brought the guy in once because I've had three different neighbors handle it for me. Don't even say anything. Just finish their house, drive up the road, start plowing my entire driveway.

[Bobby Hooks]

I don’t care what anyone says I like the idea that Lamonica only speaks in third person, so I’m pretending that’s what happened. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I don’t care what anyone says I like the idea that Lamonica only speaks in third person, so I’m pretending that’s what happened. 

 

And Your Kink is OK(tm)

[Ralonzo]

 

"We don't throw long because we got Lamonica... we got Lamonica because we throw long."

 

Clearly not the same deal with Allen... yet.

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It came from you not reading the OP.

 

AGAIN.........the thread was created to direct TBD'ers to a linked story where Lamonica talks about his playing days and gives a take on Allen. 

 

You agree the thread was about Lamonica's opinion of Allen. Correct ? 

You also read the thread title and the OP. 

 

Yet, your first post said:

"

I remember when trading Lamonica used to be the biggest personnel mistake in Bills history.

 

He had a hell of a run in Oakland but never won them a SB.

"

 

Which was not about the OP. It was about Lamonica and his inability to win a SB. 

 

And then you continued to do so and in one post, you said "Thanks for the thread on "Bills great" Daryle Lamonica............a reserve for the team 50+ years ago that ranks right behind Thad Lewis in career starts for the team."

 

Again, nothing to do with his opinion on Allen. 

At which point, I reminded you what the OP was about. To which you brought the argument back to the OP (as if I was the one going on a tangent). And added "I guess you should tell a mod that the title is misleading you". Which made no sense given my posts.

 

And now you are reminding ME again what the OP was about ? 

[Ned Flanders]

On 1/22/2020 at 3:34 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Hahahahah Ralph made OJ the highest paid player in the NFL, made Jim Kelly the highest paid NFL player. 

 

The early 90s teams were called the million dollar bills... The early 2000s Ralph made Derrick dockery the highest paid guard in NFL history

 

Few years later made Mario Williams the highest paid defensive player in NFL history

 

And he kept the Bills here for like 50 years...

 

That's the most ignorant opinion ever and Ralph IS THE BUFFALO BILLS

Jeez, for having over 7000 posts, you haven't been around here too long have you?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Ned Flanders said:

Jeez, for having over 7000 posts, you haven't been around here too long have you?

 

Long enough to know....We should never have Traded Lamonica.  The statute of limitations will run out on that bad call....NEVER

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

You agree the thread was about Lamonica's opinion of Allen. Correct ? 

You also read the thread title and the OP. 

 

Yet, your first post said:

"

I remember when trading Lamonica used to be the biggest personnel mistake in Bills history.

 

He had a hell of a run in Oakland but never won them a SB.

"

 

Which was not about the OP. It was about Lamonica and his inability to win a SB. 

 

And then you continued to do so and in one post, you said "Thanks for the thread on "Bills great" Daryle Lamonica............a reserve for the team 50+ years ago that ranks right behind Thad Lewis in career starts for the team."

 

Again, nothing to do with his opinion on Allen. 

At which point, I reminded you what the OP was about. To which you brought the argument back to the OP (as if I was the one going on a tangent). And added "I guess you should tell a mod that the title is misleading you". Which made no sense given my posts.

 

And now you are reminding ME again what the OP was about ? 

 

 

There is nothing more about someone than their opinion............you are clearly lost in yours.......read the room.............it started with a story about Lamonica's nickname by the OP and is practically all Lamonica discussion.

 

It's dubious whether some backup from 50 years ago who has a passing opinion on Allen deserves it's own thread when we have tons of Allen threads where it could be merged into.............but a story about Lamonica is of timely interest because his trade turned out to be a disastrous mistake for the Bills at a time when the fanbase is watching the Mahomes mistake turn into a Super Bowl berth for a long time AFL/AFC rival.    

 

There is no chance that the OP didn't understand that invoking Lamonica wasn't going to elicit reaction about his trade.    It ALWAYS has for as long as this board has existed.      It's like starting an OJ thread and thinking nobody will mention anything about his post-career activities.  

 

[dave mcbride]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:19 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And others don't see how it makes sense to dredge up the history of the Bills as an organization for every decision this FO makes

There ya go.

Newsflash: Frequent and longtime posters on a Bills fan board are disproportionately more likely than casual fans to care a lot about franchise history and raise it as a topic of discussion. Embrace it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Newsflash: Frequent and longtime posters on a Bills fan board are disproportionately more likely than casual fans to care a lot about franchise history and raise it as a topic of discussion. Embrace it.

 

Oh, I am, I am;  Shouldn't have Traded Lamonica! ☺️

 

But still, Dave, there's a difference between caring about franchise history and raising it as a topic of discussion per se, vs bringing up all the decisions of previous FO and historical w/l record and previous draft choices whenever a recent decision is discussed.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, I am, I am;  Shouldn't have Traded Lamonica! ☺️

 

But still, Dave, there's a difference between caring about franchise history and raising it as a topic of discussion per se, vs bringing up all the decisions of previous FO and historical w/l record and previous draft choices whenever a recent decision is discussed.

 

 

Speaking of making no sense.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There is nothing more about someone than their opinion............you are clearly lost in yours.......read the room.............it started with a story about Lamonica's nickname by the OP and is practically all Lamonica discussion.

 

It's dubious whether some backup from 50 years ago who has a passing opinion on Allen deserves it's own thread when we have tons of Allen threads where it could be merged into.............but a story about Lamonica is of timely interest because his trade turned out to be a disastrous mistake for the Bills at a time when the fanbase is watching the Mahomes mistake turn into a Super Bowl berth for a long time AFL/AFC rival.    

 

There is no chance that the OP didn't understand that invoking Lamonica wasn't going to elicit reaction about his trade.    It ALWAYS has for as long as this board has existed.      It's like starting an OJ thread and thinking nobody will mention anything about his post-career activities.  

 

Interesting fact: Lamonica started the Immaculate Reception game and was benched after going 6-18 for 45 yards and 2 picks. Stabler wasn't much better, going 6-12 for 57 yards, 3 sacks, and 2 fumbles. Still, the Raiders absolutely should have won that game and would have if not for the craziest (and arguably most controversial; it's up there with the tuck rule and the Robey-Coleman play) play in NFL history.  

Edited January 24, 2020 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Interesting fact: Lamonica started the Immaculate Reception game and was benched after going 6-18 for 45 yards and 2 picks. Stabler wasn't much better, going 6-12 for 57 yards, 3 sacks, and 2 fumbles. Still, the Raiders absolutely should have won that game and would have if not for the craziest (and arguably most controversial) play in NFL history.  

 

 

Also interesting that Kemp took the Bills to 3 straight AFL title games............and then Lamonica went to the next 4 straight.

 

Easy to see why that really burned Bills fans of the era.     It was still very frequently discussed in the stands at games in the late 80's.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Ned Flanders said:

Jeez, for having over 7000 posts, you haven't been around here too long have you?

I never bought the Ralph is cheap BS for 20 years and I'm not gonna start trashing him after death

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 12:38 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, I am, I am;  Shouldn't have Traded Lamonica! ☺️

 

But still, Dave, there's a difference between caring about franchise history and raising it as a topic of discussion per se, vs bringing up all the decisions of previous FO and historical w/l record and previous draft choices whenever a recent decision is discussed.

The thing is that many of the Bills idiotic moves over the years have had a long term negative impact on not only the franchise, but also the fanbase. When the Bills passed on great linemen on both sides of the ball (HUGE needs at the time mind you) to draft Whitner and then McKelvin, these unthinkably dumb moves pretty much buried any chance at a Super Bowl, let alone playoff appearances.

 

In the case of trading away from Mahomes (and Watkins) for a defensive back, it is rather early to assess just how much damage was done. I am thrilled that we do have Allen. He is a talented, exciting player to watch. The thing is, if he doesn't pan out, this could go down as one of the dumbest moves in NFL history. I mean it is possible.

 

The above is why I am not surprised when the past blunders are mentioned by posters, and the ones I listed barely scratch the surface.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The thing is that many of the Bills idiotic moves over the years have had a long term negative impact on not only the franchise, but also the fanbase. When the Bills passed on great linemen on both sides of the ball (HUGE needs at the time mind you) to draft Whitner and then McKelvin, these unthinkably dumb moves pretty much buried any chance at a Super Bowl, let alone playoff appearances.

 

In the case of trading away from Mahomes (and Watkins) for a defensive back, it is rather early to assess just how much damage was done. I am thrilled that we do have Allen. He is a talented, exciting player to watch. The thing is, if he doesn't pan out, this could go down as one of the dumbest moves in NFL history. I mean it is possible.

 

The above is why I am not surprised when the past blunders are mentioned by posters, and the ones I listed barely scratch the surface.

 

I understand, believe me.  A team doesn't bank up such a long playoff drought in the Age of Parity by random chance.  Some serious systematic organizational problems need to be in place.  On the other hand, even grade school basketball players are taught, if you miss a shot or make a mistake, you can't go back and say "if only we hit it/if only I didn't..." because the whole game at that point is different.  Your team's choices are different, their team's choices are different.  Move on and do better going forward.   And in the end, it's not one or two player choices that doom or spark a team.  The rest of the structure matters.

 

And many of those choices are poor seen only in hindsight.  My personal nit is trading up to draft TJ Graham when Russ Wilson was on the board in the third round in 2012.  The 3rd round was the perfect place to take a shot on an obviously talented guy who fell due to questions over his height.  When we traded up, I was "we're going for Wilson!  We're gonna draft Wilson!  Wait, WHO?"  Today, of course, 28 or so teams could be kicking themselves that they passed on Wilson 2x, with an additional 8 or so kicking themselves for a 3rd pass.  9 teams passed on Mahomes in 2017, including a team that needed a QB and drafted at #1.  It's not as though he were overwhelmingly seen as a "can't miss" generational talent *at that time*.  Of course today, probably 30 teams with a "do over" would draft him in their slot or try to work a trade.  At the time he was seen as a talented QB with some holes whose "Air Raid" background made him a questionmark to succeed in the NFL. 

 

I remember when we traded Lamonica.  My grandfather was so irate!  He was such a gentle man - tall and strong, but restrained and quiet.  Had a plaque over his workbench "Even a Fish Wouldn't Get Into Trouble if It Kept Its Mouth Shut" and lived by it.  Back in those days, Kindergardeners weren't automatically exposed to the vocabulary he used that day.  And then the next season, when Oak won the AFC championship and went to the Superbowl while the Bills went 4-10 with an aging Kemp, he was notably furious. 

 

I'm more than willing to charge Beane with what I see as his mistakes, but at some point, it seems to me if a fan can't let go of past team choices made by different owners, GMs and coaches, they are in truth what I style myself in screen name, a "Hapless Bills Fan". 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The thing is that many of the Bills idiotic moves over the years have had a long term negative impact on not only the franchise, but also the fanbase. When the Bills passed on great linemen on both sides of the ball (HUGE needs at the time mind you) to draft Whitner and then McKelvin, these unthinkably dumb moves pretty much buried any chance at a Super Bowl, let alone playoff appearances.

 

In the case of trading away from Mahomes (and Watkins) for a defensive back, it is rather early to assess just how much damage was done. I am thrilled that we do have Allen. He is a talented, exciting player to watch. The thing is, if he doesn't pan out, this could go down as one of the dumbest moves in NFL history. I mean it is possible.

 

The above is why I am not surprised when the past blunders are mentioned by posters, and the ones I listed barely scratch the surface.

 

 

What's frustrating as a fan of the organization is 

 

A.  The repetition of the same fundamental errors over and over

B.  The excuse of said errors because "it's not fair to a new regime"

 

Ultimately having an organizational memory and learning from it shouldn't be a lot to ask..........but the buck stops at the ownership level.

 

What McDermott did in clearing his roster of high leverage players from previous regimes......then causing high draft picks to be used to replace them.......was nothing new to this franchise.   It's been happening over and over since Donahoe took over.   Nor was NOT using their original first pick in round 1(or trading up from it) on a QB............that hadn't been done for 58 prior years.

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The thing is that many of the Bills idiotic moves over the years have had a long term negative impact on not only the franchise, but also the fanbase. When the Bills passed on great linemen on both sides of the ball (HUGE needs at the time mind you) to draft Whitner and then McKelvin, these unthinkably dumb moves pretty much buried any chance at a Super Bowl, let alone playoff appearances.

 

In the case of trading away from Mahomes (and Watkins) for a defensive back, it is rather early to assess just how much damage was done. I am thrilled that we do have Allen. He is a talented, exciting player to watch. The thing is, if he doesn't pan out, this could go down as one of the dumbest moves in NFL history. I mean it is possible.

 

The above is why I am not surprised when the past blunders are mentioned by posters, and the ones I listed barely scratch the surface.

@Bill from NYC - I think you need to differentiate between CBs and safeties. A lockdown CB is as important as a good LT in today's NFL. The problem with drafting McKelvin wasn't a positional one; it was drafting him over Aqib Talib. Now I know that Talib was and still is a borderline criminal, but he is an elite player who has helped multiple teams get to championship games and Super Bowls (NE, Denver, the Rams).