Improving the O right now.

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

I feel like Duke williams has turned into a Michael Jasper type legend, zero production to warrant the fan love, I get that he is an unknown, but there has to be a reason he hasn't been playing.

 

At the risk of offending many people here......I trust the professional football people who are well paid by the Bills to make these decisions. Nobody is ever 100%, but my money will be on the pros. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

9 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Hey it’s another cleverly disguised Duke thread

Exactly what I thought

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, peterpan said:

Obviously our O is suspect.  There's a lot to be addressed this off-season, but what can we do right now to get better????  Here are some of my ideas. 

 

Bench Gore.  He is just too slow.  This has been a long season for him, and he doesn't have the burst he had in week 1.  Give Yeldon a shot.  He is fresh.  Gore could potentially come back during the playoffs if he gets some burst back.  

 

Play Kroft more.  Knox has made some high light plays, but mainly I've seen him drop easy passes.  Idk if Kroft is better, but, Beane gave him a big money contract, so I have to think he will be  more reliable. We need some reliability right now. 

 

McKenzie over Beasley, sometimes.  Beasley also has had way too many drops.  McKenzie is quick too and may be more reliable at this moment.  Beasley is in a slump.  

 

Activate Duke!!! Duke has reliable hands and can compete for jump balls.  That is something this offense desperately needs!!!  Andre Roberts does not justify a roster spot for being a kick returner, and Lee Smith doesn't either, for his role. Activate Duke Williams!!! He would be drawing the dime CB while on the field.  Get him singled up 1v1 and throw him the ball!!!  Duke could have a big impact on hot reads too, when facing an all out blitz, ala Baltimore.  I personally think DW would have caught that 4th down pass v Baltimore, if he was in that position.  

 

Bench Ford.  Hopefully Nseke is healthy soon, and can start.  Ford has been the weak spot on the OL.   I think Nseke, being a veteran, will offer a lot in a post season push.  

 

Any other ideas???

 

 

 

 

 

Use different personal groupings in the hurry up, doesnt need to be 11 personnel, just hurry up and keep the Defense on their heals and less likely to make adjustments and more time for us to make adjustments.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Hey it’s another cleverly disguised Duke thread

 

 

 

Yup. Sigh.

[Prickly Pete]

12 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I took out all the banter and left your suggestions. This sounds too much like sit Flutie and try Johnson to me. Stick with the guys that got you to the dance. We're a work in progress and it takes time and repetition and experience, especially meaningful December and Janyuary football. 

 

 

Rob Johnson had the Tennessee game WON. It was not his fault AT ALL that the Bills lost that game.

 

 

 

Whatever they do, they have 3 weeks to experiment...I hope they make the most of it.

Edited December 18, 2019 by 32ABBA

[Doc]

3 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

Rob Johnson had the Tennessee game WON. It was not his fault AT ALL that the Bills lost that game.

 

I agree with you on him having the game won, but to say it wasn't his fault at all is a bit of a stretch. 

[CLTbills]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

Bench Ford for whom, if Nsekhe still isn't healthy?  I would like to see Bates but I figure they would have done it by now.

 

And they need to play Yeldon.  Let him run and more importantly catch the ball.  Even split him out wide at times.

This... I'll let the guys that get paid millions to decide who is the better, more talented player decide who should play.

[golfball323]

While we're just throwing ideas out there: Why not get Tommy Sweeney out in some sets. Or is he our secret playoff weapon?

[Billsfan1972]

Daboll, Daboll Daboll.....  4 pages & he should be front & center in this thread.

 

He is 90% to blame for not allowing Allen to shine.

[foreboding]

I don't think our o-line is suspect. Look at our rushing stats. Yes, Josh gets sacked, but he also holds the ball (literally) longer than any other QB in the league.

Plus the line has depth.

[warrior9]

I will never understand how we take tackles that are currently playing well and want to bench / move them on this board.

 

First, it was Glenn and the whole "move him to guard" as he was playing at a top 10 LT.

 

Then it was, "Move Dawkins to RT.. maybe to G"

 

Now it's Cody Ford... I mean, has he had some help on some plays? Sure. But as a rookie he has went against D Lawrence/ Michael Bennett, Von Miller, and TJ Watt.. and NONE of them have affected the outcome of the game... Watt had 2 TFL's on horrible play calls (Gore on an outside zone?!?!?!?!?!) and one half sack... he's playing fine. 

[CDogg20]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Should the Bills call them Beane flickers?

I don’t know if the Bills will, but I certainly will be calling them that for the foreseeable future

[foreboding]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Daboll, Daboll Daboll.....  4 pages & he should be front & center in this thread.

 

He is 90% to blame for not allowing Allen to shine.

God this gets old. He is doing fine. He's managing Josh and the whole offense for wins not prolific points and possible TO's. Remember Ben's first year, when they went to the Superbowl, I think you are seeing that with Josh.

 

When you have a defense like we do, the name of the game is complimentary football. Play to your strength. With a riskier offensive plan, the chance of a fast 3 and out or TO's increases. What have you done then? Put your best unit at risk by forcing them to be put into compromising situations. Would we have won the Pats game with oh say, 3 less turnovers? I think so.

Be patient, the plan here is a few years not just a season and a half, and we got 10 wins, Enjoy our WINNING formula, of which Dabol is a big part.

[warrior9]

44 minutes ago, golfball323 said:

While we're just throwing ideas out there: Why not get Tommy Sweeney out in some sets. Or is he our secret playoff weapon?

I'd rather see Sweeney over DiMarco. ESPECIALLY when they put DiMarco out wide

[Mark80]

Stop throwing screen passes!!!  They never work for us.  Just a wasted down or worse.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

17 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Sure thing smart guy: my suggestion is to not needlessly tinker with the active roster on a 10-4 playoff team and start altering gameplans to involve marginalia that have barely played. That good enough for you chief?

 

Saints and Chiefs just put in waiver claims on guys they expect to contribute immediately...they are tinkering trying to get better. 

It's a Darwinian game...need to keep evolving each week or fall behind. 

[Billsfan1972]

37 minutes ago, foreboding said:

God this gets old. He is doing fine. He's managing Josh and the whole offense for wins not prolific points and possible TO's. Remember Ben's first year, when they went to the Superbowl, I think you are seeing that with Josh.

 

When you have a defense like we do, the name of the game is complimentary football. Play to your strength. With a riskier offensive plan, the chance of a fast 3 and out or TO's increases. What have you done then? Put your best unit at risk by forcing them to be put into compromising situations. Would we have won the Pats game with oh say, 3 less turnovers? I think so.

Be patient, the plan here is a few years not just a season and a half, and we got 10 wins, Enjoy our WINNING formula, of which Dabol is a big part.

Sorry I expect better.  Everytime it appears the offense may turn a corner Daboll regresses and the Bills flounder.  Vs. Baltimore at he Allen was under constant pressure and terrible game calling and follows it up with another 130 yard game vs Pitt.  

 

They purposely put the breaks on the offense and hard to watch despite 10 wins.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sorry I expect better.  Everytime it appears the offense may turn a corner Daboll regresses and the Bills flounder.  Vs. Baltimore at he Allen was under constant pressure and terrible game calling and follows it up with another 130 yard game vs Pitt.  

 

They purposely put the breaks on the offense and hard to watch despite 10 wins.

do you do this to family and friends, or just us?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

I feel like Duke williams has turned into a Michael Jasper type legend, zero production to warrant the fan love, I get that he is an unknown, but there has to be a reason he hasn't been playing.

 

Duke Wlliam's was signed as un drafted rookie by the Rams who only won around 4 games that season, but still wasn't able to make the roster.  After that no other NFL teams bothered with him.  Then after two seasons in the CFL  he signs with Buffalo, but don't recall much of a bidding war for his services.  After having a per-season that many here must think was the 2nd coming of Julio Jones he's cut and again no one signs him.  And after that 6  weeks or so on the practice squad and again not signed by anyone. 

 

I realize much of the early career lack of interest was due to off field issues but there are plenty of players with off field issues playing in the NFL, the difference is they have the talent.   This love fest for someone who's apparently shows very little every day in practice to coaches and overall to other teams boarders on insanity.   It is still possible given an off-season to further develop, he could turn out next season to be a productive player.  But barring someone getting hurt, doubt you'll be seeing any of him this year.  But even then likely the team will add an experienced WR plus draft one, so guys like him and even those above him on the depth chart like McKenzie and Foster are in trouble to make next seasons roster.

[foreboding]

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sorry I expect better.  Everytime it appears the offense may turn a corner Daboll regresses and the Bills flounder.  Vs. Baltimore at he Allen was under constant pressure and terrible game calling and follows it up with another 130 yard game vs Pitt.  

 

They purposely put the breaks on the offense and hard to watch despite 10 wins.

Lucky for us you aren't the coach and we have 10 wins.

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, teef said:

do you do this to family and friends, or just us?

Just you guys, however every Bills fan I talk to outside of here also are not happy with the play calling & offensive game plan.  

 

But keep explaining how 17-13 is sustainable & great.

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Lucky for us you aren't the coach and we have 10 wins.

 

....with a couple games to play!

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just you guys, however every Bills fan I talk to outside of here also are not happy with the play calling & offensive game plan.  

 

But keep explaining how 17-13 is sustainable & great.

and keep telling us how you don't like how the bills are winning.  you say it over and over and over.  part of being an adult is when you realize your opinion just isn't that special.  we're all here to talk about the bills,  but somehow you manage to make it painful.  

[Nester]

I dont get the Roberts hate.

did you knuckleheads forget all the dropped punts last year?

 

Roberts has 3rd best return yardage in the league and has Velcro hands. You all are crazy for considering benching him let alone dropping off the roster.

 

[CorkScrewHill]

20 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I read that we have clinched a playoff spot, not specifically the 5th seed, don’t know if that’s correct or not. 

 

Go Bills!!!

Best case is 2nd overall seed if we win 2; NE loses 2 and KC loses 1

We could be 3rd if we win 2; NE loses 2 and KC wins 2

Any other combination and we are 5th.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

20 hours ago, peterpan said:

Any other ideas???

 

Offense - Work extensively on screens and draws and other blitz beaters that don't require JB to win a 1 on 1 against a top NFL CB.  Perfect 10 such plays.

 

Foster - Has all the skills except for finding and adjusting to the ball.  Work on that extensively.

Knox - Send to the jugs machine 4 hours per day, spelled by Beasley and Singletary at times.

Yeldon?  Activate him.  He was productive against NE in week 4, but otherwise has not looked great for the Bills.  He was productive catching the ball for the Jags.

Ford - The plan is coming along, keep improving at RT.

Gore - Sit and rest up until playoffs.  Perhaps come back for a strong finish where he can contribute a bit more on the field.

Kroft - Would like to see more involvement, if healthy.

Williams - Not sure, haven't seen enough.  Seems like he could be a decent red zone threat.  I'd activate him over Lee Smith and see what he can do in as a hybrid TE/WR type.

 

I wonder what our 2018 leading YPC rusher Marcus Murphy is doing these days?  That ship has probably sailed.

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, teef said:

and keep telling us how you don't like how the bills are winning.  you say it over and over and over.  part of being an adult is when you realize your opinion just isn't that special.  we're all here to talk about the bills,  but somehow you manage to make it painful.  

And I do......  I am all about the Offense & have stated that.  To see them sputter when I think they are so much better is difficult to watch.

 

Do you watch good offenses & not wonder why the Bills can't play similarly?  

 

How can the Bills be the only team in each of 2017, 2018 &2019 that has not thrown for 300 yards does not make you wonder about the offensive philosophy of this team.

 

To see them vs. Pitt turtle up 7-3 with 1:50 & 3 timeouts before half celebrate running out the clock as if they just scored a td & then give Pitt the ball back without even trying to get a first down, not once but twice with the game on the line, not tell you how little they try on offense?

[teef]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I do......  I am all about the Offense & have stated that.  To see them sputter when I think they are so much better is difficult to watch.

 

Do you watch good offenses & not wonder why the Bills can't play similarly?  

 

How can the Bills be the only team in each of 2017, 2018 &2019 that has not thrown for 300 yards does not make you wonder about the offensive philosophy of this team.

 

To see them vs. Pitt turtle up 7-3 with 1:50 & 3 timeouts before half celebrate running out the clock as if they just scored a td & then give Pitt the ball back without even trying to get a first down, not once but twice with the game on the line, not tell you how little they try on offense?

i honestly don't put a second of thought into any of this.  the bills have double digit wins for the first time since i've been in college.  the offense will need to improve over the next year or two, but for now i'm not, "embarrassed" or bothered by it.  the bills are farther ahead of where i'd thought they'd be, so i'm happy. 

 

even if i wasn't happy, i wouldn't parrot the same opinion over and over and over and over.  it's just not something reasonable people do.

[Billsfan1972]

20 minutes ago, teef said:

i honestly don't put a second of thought into any of this.  the bills have double digit wins for the first time since i've been in college.  the offense will need to improve over the next year or two, but for now i'm not, "embarrassed" or bothered by it.  the bills are farther ahead of where i'd thought they'd be, so i'm happy. 

 

even if i wasn't happy, i wouldn't parrot the same opinion over and over and over and over.  it's just not something reasonable people do.

Well you care enough to respond to many of my posts.......?

[teef]

16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Well you care enough to respond to many of my posts.......?

it's more of a parent trying to stop their kid from doing something embarrassing.  

[foreboding]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I do......  I am all about the Offense & have stated that.  To see them sputter when I think they are so much better is difficult to watch.

 

Do you watch good offenses & not wonder why the Bills can't play similarly?  

 

How can the Bills be the only team in each of 2017, 2018 &2019 that has not thrown for 300 yards does not make you wonder about the offensive philosophy of this team.

 

To see them vs. Pitt turtle up 7-3 with 1:50 & 3 timeouts before half celebrate running out the clock as if they just scored a td & then give Pitt the ball back without even trying to get a first down, not once but twice with the game on the line, not tell you how little they try on offense?

I will admit I did not love the calls to end the half. But you know what? We are fans, not the coaches who have studied those teams.
I was nervous every play pf that game, that Pitt D is legit and they are predatory in their attacks on the ball. They won all those games by ferocious defense and Dabol and Allen know that. Whatever it was they did worked, cause we won in Pitt for the first time since 19-friggin-75. Enough already. Enjoy the ride.

Edited December 18, 2019 by foreboding

[peterpan]

20 hours ago, ngbills said:

Good question. As is why some fans think a practice squad barely in the NFL guy is the missing piece of the offense. 

Robert Foster from last season says "hello"

[teef]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Can't argue with wins, but that sequence inside the Steelers 20 after the White INT was over the top, play for the tie, conservative football..... maybe that was the strategy due to them playing Duck Hodges, but I hated it. 

i think it was the way they decided to play the game as well.  that being said, i completely agree that the offense needs to be improved.  i think what we see this year may be more by design to take some pressure off josh while he's developing,  but we need a stud wr, another rb, depth on the ol, etc.  

 

i'm just more surprised by one poster who insists on repeating the same thing time and time again.  we know how he feels.  boy do we know.

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I do......  I am all about the Offense & have stated that.  To see them sputter when I think they are so much better is difficult to watch.

 

Do you watch good offenses & not wonder why the Bills can't play similarly?  

 

How can the Bills be the only team in each of 2017, 2018 &2019 that has not thrown for 300 yards does not make you wonder about the offensive philosophy of this team.

 

To see them vs. Pitt turtle up 7-3 with 1:50 & 3 timeouts before half celebrate running out the clock as if they just scored a td & then give Pitt the ball back without even trying to get a first down, not once but twice with the game on the line, not tell you how little they try on offense?

You got to cut the young guys some slack and give them some time to develop.  We don't know if they're going to develop and as quickly as we want them to, but dang we've got to give them the some time.  The strategy I'm seeing McD and Beane using is to recruit what they think is great talent, have them work and develop alongside good but not great veterans to become great contributors on the offense.  Allen, Knox, Singletery, Ford, McKenzie, Sweeney, etc.  They focused on the defense first, which I agree with.  Give the O another year or two.

[LeGOATski]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Can't argue with wins, but that sequence inside the Steelers 20 after the White INT was over the top, play for the tie, conservative football..... maybe that was the strategy due to them playing Duck Hodges, but I hated it. 

Absolutely. I said the same thing during the game. Their goal was to maintain FG position at all costs.

[Pokebball]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Can't argue with wins, but that sequence inside the Steelers 20 after the White INT was over the top, play for the tie, conservative football..... maybe that was the strategy due to them playing Duck Hodges, but I hated it. 

I think it was very intentional.  I called it when the O came onto the field.  I told my buddy it wasn't even going to be run, run, pass, punt but rather run, run run, punt.  We can all look back and say, dang the conservative play calling worked, but that is so very hard to swallow as it's happening.

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Absolutely. I said the same thing during the game. Their goal was to maintain FG position at all costs.

Except for that TD pass to Kroft.  The best part of that, to me, is that it came right after Collinsworth said that the 3rd down call was going to be pretty conservative.  LOL

[billsfan89]

The offense can only make marginal improvements at this point. Outside of Antonio Brown (Who won't be playing anytime soon) there aren't any free agents or players returning from injury who the Bills that will make an impact. 

 

There aren't any bench players (sorry Duke) that could be utilized much more significantly to make more than marginal improvements. The offense is what it is. It will move the ball a bit but it will also struggle at times. The offense has to play complementary to the good defensive effort. The offense will have to add a WR opposite Brown in the off-season and make other improvements after the season. Work around the offense the rest of the season. 

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

That strategy, in all likelihood, won't work in the playoffs..... against any of the opponents, whoever they face. 

I concur.  I want to (and will) believe that it was situational, seeing how the Bills D was doing against the Duck.

[LABILLBACKER]

22 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Have someone other than Daboll call the plays; a lot will get fixed with this alone.

There's your winning answer. Gore should sit these next 2 out. Give Yeldon a few targets. Duke sitting on the sidelines over stiffs like Smith or Dimarco is comical. I won't do anything with Ford right now but he will be a guard next year. Keep McK active for threat of the end around. 

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I think it was very intentional.  I called it when the O came onto the field.  I told my buddy it wasn't even going to be run, run, pass, punt but rather run, run run, punt.  We can all look back and say, dang the conservative play calling worked, but that is so very hard to swallow as it's happening.

Except for that TD pass to Kroft.  The best part of that, to me, is that it came right after Collinsworth said that the 3rd down call was going to be pretty conservative.  LOL

Yeah, they went for the throat on that drive. It was all situational. I don't think "conservative" is a characteristic of McDermott. It's just the strategy being employed more often because of personnel limitations.