Possible Bills coaching changes in 2020 [Mod edited]

[Beast]

Looking at our coaching staff I really only see one solid possibility of losing a coach, and that being Ken Dorsey. With Allen’s improvement is it possible someone will offer Dorsey an OC spot to work with that teams QB and also steer their offense? Is Dorsey ready to be an OC?

 

Possible that Allen is more comfortable with Dorsey than Daboll and the Bills send Daboll packing and offer Dorsey the OC?

 

Anyone else see any possibilities? Though our defense is top notch I don’t see anyone getting poached there,

[Kiva]

Maybe if they win the division.  Finishing 10-6 wouldn’t warrant consideration. 

[Happy]

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

[John from Riverside]

Can we please just get a comp ST's coach?

[LB48]

Ken Dorsey is way over-rated.  How could anyone not be a great QB coach with Cam Newton in his younger years?  After being fired by the Panthers Dorsey was hired in March 26, 2018 to be the assistant director of athletics for the Florida International University sports program.

Our present head coach pulled him out of the minor leagues to be the Bills QB coach. As an Offensive Coordinator with no NFL experience in that role seems to be a reach. 

 

[bigK14094]

Daboll and Fraser stay.  Dorsey, who knows, but I am guessing yes as well.  the special teams guy has not worked out imho.  Lets try Tasker......in that role. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

Funny you say that. It's not necessarily the plays he has in his arsenal,  but the incredibly stupid times he uses them. Keep the playbook,  add Dorsey and let him supplement it.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

58 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Daboll and Fraser stay.  Dorsey, who knows, but I am guessing yes as well.  the special teams guy has not worked out imho.  Lets try Tasker......in that role. 

Tasker has said numerous times he would never coach, to much of a grind

[Kirby Jackson]

Why wouldn’t the Bills just block teams from interviewing Dorsey for a coordinator position?

[BringBackFlutie]

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

Oh God....I just made a potentially horrible realization.  Is Daboll so bad at calling the right play because he never learned how, because he always had all the signals to know what's coming??? Ohhhh no.

[Maybe Someday]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why wouldn’t the Bills just block teams from interviewing Dorsey for a coordinator position?

Kind of an unwritten rule i think. Typically people don't want to work for a company that blocks your career advancement. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets some looks for a HC. After we lost what's his name..Petite?...to the browns a few years ago nothing will.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

Kind of an unwritten rule i think. Typically people don't want to work for a company that blocks your career advancement. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets some looks for a HC. After we lost what's his name..Petite?...to the browns a few years ago nothing will.

Nonetheless, the Bills don’t have to let teams interview him for coordinator positions. Teams block guys all the time. If the Bills feel he’s crucial to Josh’s development they should (and will) hold firm on Dorsey. They can even hand him more money to keep him happy.
 

I think Frazier and Daboll are going to get interviews. I don’t know if either will be hired but they will be considered. 

[Happy]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think Frazier and Daboll are going to get interviews. I don’t know if either will be hired but they will be considered. 

 

I know it's been 8-10 years or so since Frazier was coaching the Vikings, but don't people remember just how bad a job he did with the Vikings, save one season?  I can't fathom anyone considering Daboll, at least this point.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Happy Gilmore

[Big Blitz]

John Butler?

Edited December 11, 2019 by Big Blitz

[Dr.Sack]

What are the chances McD is fired if we don’t make the playoffs?

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

What are the chances McD is fired if we don’t make the playoffs?

I’d say less than 5%. 

[Dr.Sack]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’d say less than 5%. 

Would be horrible to start 9-3 and finish 9-7. That is the only scenario we miss the playoffs. I don’t see that happening but if Allen implodes and continues his 40% completion percentage in loses we need to draft a new QB & hopefully McD is spared.

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Would be horrible to start 9-3 and finish 9-7. That is the only scenario we miss the playoffs. I don’t see that happening but if Allen implodes and continues his 40% completion percentage in loses we need to draft a new QB & hopefully McD is spared.

Even in the unlikely event that the Bills finish 9-7 , I’d be shocked if the Bills drafted a QB and even more so if they moved on from McD. The offensive rebuild wasn’t complete this season, they’re still a couple players away from being a potent offense. I expect them to address it in FA and the draft 

[Dr.Sack]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Even in the unlikely event that the Bills finish 9-7 , I’d be shocked if the Bills drafted a QB and even more so if they moved on from McD. The offensive rebuild wasn’t complete this season, they’re still a couple players away from being a potent offense. I expect them to address it in FA and the draft 

I see us two years out with Allen due to lack of TE, WR, RT, RG, & RB depth behind Singletary. 

[Phil The Thrill]

7 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Looking at our coaching staff I really only see one solid possibility of losing a coach, and that being Ken Dorsey. With Allen’s improvement is it possible someone will offer Dorsey an OC spot to work with that teams QB and also steer their offense? Is Dorsey ready to be an OC?

 

Possible that Allen is more comfortable with Dorsey than Daboll and the Bills send Daboll packing and offer Dorsey the OC?

 

Anyone else see any possibilities? Though our defense is top notch I don’t see anyone getting poached there,

It’s wishful thinking that the Bills send Daboll

packing.  It won’t happen.  He is far from perfect but he’s also not as bad as some fans want you to be believe.  A big part of the offensive struggles is Josh Allen - whether fans want to admit it or not.  But he’s  also made strides this year.  
 

Only way Daboll leaves is If someone gives him a HC position.   

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why wouldn’t the Bills just block teams from interviewing Dorsey for a coordinator position?

 

I am certain that they would. 

2 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

What are the chances McD is fired if we don’t make the playoffs?

 

None

4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I know it's been 8-10 years or so since Frazier was coaching the Vikings, but don't people remember just how bad a job he did with the Vikings, save one season?  I can't fathom anyone considering Daboll, at least this point.

 

 

 

He had nothing at all at Quarterback. If Frazier was 10 years younger he would be gone this offseason for a HC job. I think he will almost certainly be back because people are not rushing to hire a 60 year old Head Coach. 

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Looking at our coaching staff I really only see one solid possibility of losing a coach, and that being Ken Dorsey. With Allen’s improvement is it possible someone will offer Dorsey an OC spot to work with that teams QB and also steer their offense? Is Dorsey ready to be an OC?

 

Possible that Allen is more comfortable with Dorsey than Daboll and the Bills send Daboll packing and offer Dorsey the OC?

 

Anyone else see any possibilities? Though our defense is top notch I don’t see anyone getting poached there,

I doubt the coaching staff makes any changes regardless, unless Daboll continues with his Dr Jekyll and Hyde play calling while staying with the Hyde stuff. Look back at the last five games to see that against the Browns and Ravens the run game simply was underutilized by about half of the passing attempts.  Which created a tough time for the QB as he was forced to attempt to carry the team with his arm.

 

Now look at the Miami, Denver, Dallas games to see that the Bills ran it nearly 2x the amount they passed the ball which allowed Josh Allen to find some confidence and rhythm. What was thoroughly confusing was why Daboll had Allen throw deep so much considering that Josh has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season. In those three wins the Bills offense went with mostly a short passing scheme.

 

A lot also depends on how many wins this team has at the end of the season, 9-7 and changes are in sight, more wins and a playoff run and changes are doubtful. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I doubt the coaching staff makes any changes regardless, unless Daboll continues with his Dr Jekyll and Hyde play calling while staying with the Hyde stuff. Look back at the last five games to see that against the Browns and Ravens the run game simply was underutilized by about half of the passing attempts.  Which created a tough time for the QB as he was forced to attempt to carry the team with his arm.

 

Now look at the Miami, Denver, Dallas games to see that the Bills ran it nearly 2x the amount they passed the ball which allowed Josh Allen to find some confidence and rhythm. What was thoroughly confusing was why Daboll had Allen throw deep so much considering that Josh has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season. In those three wins the Bills offense went with mostly a short passing scheme.

 

A lot also depends on how many wins this team has at the end of the season, 9-7 and changes are in sight, more wins and a playoff run and changes are doubtful. 

 

 

 

Teams pass more in games they are behind a lot and run more when they are ahead. Who knew?

 

There were three lots of run, run, pass punt on Sunday. This team cannot run to set up the pass. It can pass to set up the run.

Edited December 11, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Would be horrible to start 9-3 and finish 9-7. That is the only scenario we miss the playoffs. I don’t see that happening but if Allen implodes and continues his 40% completion percentage in loses we need to draft a new QB & hopefully McD is spared.

 

Look at this guy go!

[Dr.Sack]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Look at this guy go!

Just calling it as I see it. Will the 2019 Bills continue our 20 year history of fading down the stretch or prove once and for all they belong in the consideration of legit contenders? Another chance to beat two teams with winning records awaits. I want to go 3-0, just don’t have much faith given the lack of progression on the offensive side. Maybe Allen completes 65% and we still lose, but that would be a nice development given his 11-0 record when complete 60% or more and 3-10 when below.

[Todd Allan]

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’d say less than 5%. 

 

ZERO POINT ZERO! lol

 

The only coaching changes I see this off-season is (possibly) one of our defensive coaches getting poached & elevated to DC somewhere. Frazier is a great DC, but past his prime for a HC job, IMO. Our offense isn't really being dominant, so I doubt anyone's getting recruited from that side of the ball.

 

Now, if we make it to the AFC Championship game or better, then maybe that changes.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I know it's been 8-10 years or so since Frazier was coaching the Vikings, but don't people remember just how bad a job he did with the Vikings, save one season?  I can't fathom anyone considering Daboll, at least this point.

 

 

He’s already being linked to the one job that is open: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/brian-daboll-in-buffalo-is-a-guys-name-that-weve-heard-for-panthers-next-hc-says-charlotte-sports-radio-host.html

[Thurman#1]

Dorsey's got one year as a QB coach. Daboll's got one year as a winning OC. Frazier's got three years as a terrific DC on top of a long and successful career before that.

 

But people suspect that the defense is McDermott's and they're clearly partly right. I don't think the odds are great that anybody gets poached this year, at least not to go to a plum position that's an obvious move up.

 

Could happen, though, certainly. I feel like Frazier's the guy who would be the best pick for another team, and maybe Daboll is the most likely to be grabbed if it happens. Most ready, maybe, but not ready, IMO. One year in charge of a successful NFL offense, assuming you find this offense successful. I know Daboll's been mentioned for a position but I don't buy it, and the mention wasn't specific that the reporter had great sources and Daboll's name came from one of them.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Kirby Jackson]

Just to be clear here the ONLY job that teams can’t block guys from is HC. You CAN block a guy from going from QB coach to OC for example. A move from position coach to coordinator is considered a lateral move within the NFL. 

[HOUSE]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

What are the chances McD is fired if we don’t make the playoffs?

 

0% or less

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

Just calling it as I see it. Will the 2019 Bills continue our 20 year history of fading down the stretch or prove once and for all they belong in the consideration of legit contenders? Another chance to beat two teams with winning records awaits. I want to go 3-0, just don’t have much faith given the lack of progression on the offensive side. Maybe Allen completes 65% and we still lose, but that would be a nice development given his 11-0 record when complete 60% or more and 3-10 when below.

 

 

SO many whipped dogs around here.

 

[Mr. WEO]

What team is going to be looking at Dorsey to be the new OC their young developing QB needs?

 

I'm a JA supporter, but, right now,  I don't think other GMs are looking at the Bills current record and saying "wow, the Bills have gotten to this point this year on the back of Josh Allen coached by Ken Dorsey".

 

Instead they will reasonably see a top D paired with and an O that struggles to score TDs-particularly in the air--and one of the weakest passing games in the NFL.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

What team is going to be looking at Dorsey to be the new OC their young developing QB needs?

 

I'm a JA supporter, but, right now,  I don't think other GMs are looking at the Bills current record and saying "wow, the Bills have gotten to this point this year on the back of Josh Allen coached by Ken Dorsey".

 

Instead they will reasonably see a top D paired with and an O that struggles to score TDs-particularly in the air--and one of the weakest passing games in the NFL.

Oh I disagree completely. I thInk teams are looking at the progress of Josh from last year to this year and giving A LOT of credit to Daboll and Dorsey. Allen is by no means a finished product but he’s light years ahead of where he was at this time last year. The key word is “progress.” The coaches are responsible for (and receive credit for) improvement. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh I disagree completely. I thInk teams are looking at the progress of Josh from last year to this year and giving A LOT of credit to Daboll and Dorsey. Allen is by no means a finished product but he’s light years ahead of where he was at this time last year. The key word is “progress.” The coaches are responsible for (and receive credit for) improvement. 

 

How does that notice of progress translate into a candidate for an OC job?  It doesn't.

 

Allen is incrementally getting better from last year (it's not yet "light years"), but he's got a long way to go before he gets his QB coach an OC job.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Would be horrible to start 9-3 and finish 9-7. That is the only scenario we miss the playoffs. I don’t see that happening but if Allen implodes and continues his 40% completion percentage in loses we need to draft a new QB & hopefully McD is spared.

In this possible scenario I don't think any changes would be made. Fans will be angry but no moves made and McDermott, Beane, and Allen are fighting for their jobs in 2020. 

 

In the the scenario where the Bills make the playoffs and maybe even have success I really don't see any of our coOrdinators getting a HC job. Possibly Frazier, but been there done that. My biggest worry would be position coaches getting a coordinator job. Ken Dorsey and John Butler have a good chance. John Butler is the most likely candidate to get a coordinator job. 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How does that notice of progress translate into a candidate for an OC job?  It doesn't.

 

Allen is incrementally getting better from last year (it's not yet "light years"), but he's got a long way to go before he gets his QB coach an OC job.

 

 

We aren’t talking about an OC job. The Bills aren’t letting these guys go to an OC job. Daboll is going to be a HC candidate because teams believe that he can develop a young QB. Bad teams, that fire their coach, are often in the market for a young QB. He is already being mentioned for the Carolina job (the only one currently open). 
 

I’d argue, “light years” as well. If you look at the movement in completion percentage (7% points), passer rating (17.9 points), TD:turnover rate and compare it to other guys between year 1 and 2 he will stack up favorably. That is light years by NFL standards. A lot of that is because he had a bigger gap to cover but the coaches will get credit for that. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Dorsey's got one year as a QB coach. Daboll's got one year as a winning OC. Frazier's got three years as a terrific DC on top of a long and successful career before that.

 

But people suspect that the defense is McDermott's and they're clearly partly right. I don't think the odds are great that anybody gets poached this year, at least not to go to a plum position that's an obvious move up.

 

Could happen, though, certainly. I feel like Frazier's the guy who would be the best pick for another team, and maybe Daboll is the most likely to be grabbed if it happens. Most ready, maybe, but not ready, IMO. One year in charge of a successful NFL offense, assuming you find this offense successful. I know Daboll's been mentioned for a position but I don't buy it, and the mention wasn't specific that the reporter had great sources and Daboll's name came from one of them.

 

Dorsey was the QB coach in Carolina for 5 seasons.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s already being linked to the one job that is open: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/brian-daboll-in-buffalo-is-a-guys-name-that-weve-heard-for-panthers-next-hc-says-charlotte-sports-radio-host.html

 

Interesting.  If the Panthers hire Daboll, it won't be long until they're begging Ron Rivera to come back.

[Captain Hindsight]

10 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Daboll and Fraser stay.  Dorsey, who knows, but I am guessing yes as well.  the special teams guy has not worked out imho.  Lets try Tasker......in that role. 

Tasker was a great STer because hes batshit crazy. Nothing he has ever done suggests he could coach

 

But if it gets him off the radio, id consider it

[Cripple Creek]

11 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

While I agree that Daboll doesn't appear to have a feel for play calling is there any precedence for this? (an OC who isn't the play caller)