Myles Garrett suspended indefinitely (minimum 2019 season), Pouncy 3 games, Ogunjobi 1 game

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Rudolph put his hands on Garrett’s helmet as he’s actively driving his body down on him while he’s on his back and helpless. Have you ever been in a situation like that?

You're really not defending Garrett's actions, are you?

I mean I hope I'm really reading this wrong because it looks to me like you're talkin about Garrett being helpless on his back. if you are, laugh my ass off at you!

If I did read it wrong I'll gladly retract my post.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

You're really not defending Garrett's actions, are you?

I mean I hope I'm really reading this wrong because it looks to me like you're talkin about Garrett being helpless on his back. if you are, laugh my ass off at you!

If I did read it wrong I'll gladly retract my post.

You’re reading it wrong.

[Jerry Jabber]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

If your point is that Tomlin, Garrett and Mason all had a role prior to the helmet swing, I don’t disagree. I do disagree with coming down on Mason like he acted crazy. He thought he got cheapshotted at the end of a game and responded the way I would want a competitor to respond. If Josh Allen gets cheapshotted, he scrums with a defender too. That’s what someone with a pair is supposed to do.

 

”Attacking Garrett” while Garett is on top of him driving his body down on him is a VERY liberal way of describing that play, btw. 

Maybe you're looking at different footage. The footage I saw with the best view is at 1:43 

Garrett took Rudolph down and actually was on his back, so Rudolph was on top of Garrett at that moment when Rudolph started yanking Garrett's helmet off. It happened very quick, but as I said before, it was a late hit, not a dirty hit, Rudolph snapped and escalated the situation when he first made several attempts to rip Garrett's helmet off.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Disagree. Garrett's hit was late, but it wasn't dirty. It's one thing to push a player, get in his face and cuss him out for a late hit, but the way Rudolph snapped, went after Garrett by trying to forcibly rip Garrett's helmet off was inexcusable. With the NFL trying to make the game safer with no helmet-to-helmet hits, blows to the head and face, concussions etc..., players that try to do what Rudolph did should be reprimanded, whether fined, suspended or both.

 

The hit was definitely late.  I do think it was also unnecessarily rough ... but I don't think it crossed the "dirty," line, per se.

 

Garrett lifted Rudolph off the ground by Rudolph's face mask.

 

I don't fault Rudolph for anything he did immediately after getting up. 

 

I can see the NFL fining him for staying in the fight longer than he should have/needed to.  But his initial reaction after "getting" up??  No way.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

You’re reading it wrong.

Awesome, I knew I should have put on my reading glasses before I read that post.thanks man, carry on.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Maybe you're looking at different footage. The footage I saw with the best view is at 1:43 

Garrett took Rudolph down and actually was on his back, so Rudolph was on top of Garrett at that moment when Rudolph started yanking Garrett's helmet off. It happened very quick, but as I said before, it was a late hit, not a dirty hit, Rudolph snapped and escalated the situation when he first made several attempts to rip Garrett's helmet off.

What? Rudolph was never on top of Garrett in that clip. His hands brush against the back of Garrett’s helmet and jersey as he’s taken to the ground. Then, when he’s wrapped up, on the ground, and the play is clearly dead, Garrett still has not let go, and Rudolph starts to grab at the helmet. Then Garrett PULLS HIM UP BY THE FACEMASK. I’m finding the straws you are grasping at to be pretty weak.

Edited November 15, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[freddyjj]

Does this all happen in Big Ben is playing QB?  Garrett would likely not have risked being sexually assaulted as reprisal by Big Ben.  On Prime time no less.

[Scott7975]

Rudolph will be fined...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001077016/article/mason-rudolph-will-be-fined-for-role-in-tnf-brawl

[Boatdrinks]

8 minutes ago, Plano said:

The question looms: Will Garrett ever be allowed back on an NFL field again?

 

 

Yes, he will. 

[Jerry Jabber]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What? Rudolph was never on top of Garrett in that clip. His hands brush against the back of Garrett’s helmet and jersey as he’s taken to the ground. Then, when he’s wrapped up, on the ground, and the play is clearly dead, Garrett still has not let go, and Rudolph starts to grab at the helmet. Then Garrett PULLS HIM UP BY THE FACEMASK. I’m finding the straws you are grasping at to be pretty weak.

As I said before, I'm not a fan of either team, so I have no favoritism either way. I'm not sure what you've saw, but I clearly stated what I saw and exactly where on the video. Have a nice day!

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Rudolph will be fined...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001077016/article/mason-rudolph-will-be-fined-for-role-in-tnf-brawl

I am fine now. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 I think Rudolph deserves a game or two as well

 

Yikes bro you serious, one or two games lol

 

For reference, the following plays resulted in suspensions of exactly zero games-

 

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

There, time to step away from this thread, I think it's run its course. good to see that Rudolph got his coming too.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

As I said before, I'm not a fan of either team, so I have no favoritism either way. I'm not sure what you've saw, but I clearly stated what I saw and exactly where on the video. Have a nice day!

1:43 in that video is Rudolph on his back in the end zone, with Garrett being covered by Decastro a few yards away. No wonder your interpretation of the fight is off base!

[MAJBobby]

Jerry Hughes follows up with his tweet “Internet is not real”. 
 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

 

Yikes bro you serious, one or two games lol

 

For reference, the following plays resulted in suspensions of exactly zero games-

 

 

 

AJ Green choking Ramsay is such a funny play. I know it’s dirty and uncalled for or whatever, but you can feel him seeing absolute red and Ramsay has no idea what’s coming. Laugh out loud play, 10/10 stuff.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I am fine now. 

 

Yeah I think that's pretty fair.  I think if he got suspended it would open a can of worms.  I feel he did something wrong but it was pretty marginable as opposed to some pretty crappy things that have only gotten fines or just in game penalties.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Jerry Hughes follows up with his tweet “Internet is not real”. 
 

 

"My team runs twitter."

 

Proof these guys make way too much money.

 

 

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

No, that play was not the same level as Garrett.

 

Like I said, it was despicable, but not to the level of what happened between Rudolph and Garrett.

 

White still had his helmet on.

 

I don't know what the effort is to accomplish with this comparison.  I don't think anyone would say Gronk's hit on White is forgivable.  Everyone, including a lot of the national media, agreed that Gronk should have been suspended.

 

That play by Gronk was terrible.

 

The think last night was notably worse.

 

No, Gronk's was worse.  For starters, Tre' didn't do anything but trash talk, which happens all game long by everyone.  Second, Gronk assaulted Tre' when he was completely unaware/unable to defend himself (and with a weapon just like Garrett did).  Third, Tre' got a concussion whereas Rudolph was completely fine (and I can't even say he connected with Rudolph's head).

[Numark3]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep. He wrote a check he couldn’t cash. 
 

 

oh the humanity, he tried to rip of his helmet!!!  An action that has never warranted a suspension

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yeah I think that's pretty fair.  I think if he got suspended it would open a can of worms.  I feel he did something wrong but it was pretty marginable as opposed to some pretty crappy things that have only gotten fines or just in game penalties.

I don’t think he ever would have served the suspension. I think was always gonna end up as a fine. Once the appeal process completed. 

[Scott7975]

Just now, Doc said:

 

No, Gronk's was worse.  For starters, Tre' didn't do anything but trash talk, which happens all game long by everyone.  Second, Gronk assaulted Tre' when he was completely unaware/unable to defend himself (and with a weapon just like Garrett did).  Third, Tre' got a concussion whereas Rudolph was completely fine (and I can't even say he connected with Rudolph's head).

 

I agree.  I think Gronk was the same type of scumbag really.  Rudolphs head was definitely contacted.  There are plenty of videos in this thread that clearly show it.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

No, Gronk's was worse.  For starters, Tre' didn't do anything but trash talk, which happens all game long by everyone.  Second, Gronk assaulted Tre' when he was completely unaware/unable to defend himself (and with a weapon just like Garrett did).  Third, Tre' got a concussion whereas Rudolph was completely fine (and I can't even say he connected with Rudolph's head).

The play was also over longer and Gronk had to come back to club him.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I don’t think he ever would have served the suspension. I think was always gonna end up as a fine. Once the appeal process completed. 

 

That is most probably if it started as like a one game suspension.

 

I feel like the NFL is going to feel the need to go the extra mile and call a lot of ticky tacky stuff this weekend because of it though.  I really hate ticky tacky calls.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Scott7975

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

That is most probably if it started as like a one game suspension.

 

I feel like this NFL is going to feel the need to go the extra mile and call a lot of ticky tacky stuff this weekend because of it though.  I really hate ticky tacky calls.

gonna guess a 6 figure Fine coming. Though maybe 75k not sure if they have a cap on fines like this 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

oh the humanity, he tried to rip of his helmet!!!  An action that has never warranted a suspension

 

'Illegal hands to the face, offense #2...that's a 5 yard penalty and he has been suspended for the next two games'

 

lmao what sport do you people watch

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

 

'Illegal hands to the face, offense #2...that's a 5 yard penalty and he has been suspended for the next two games'

 

lmao what sport do you people watch

The reality is they were going to fine everybody involved in the scrum after Garrett did what he did. But if there was just pushing instead of Garrett clubbing Rudolph, it’s possible no one gets any kind of punishment at all.

[CircleTheWagons99]

Mason is getting fined as well. Rightfully so. No suspension, which also is right. 

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Well maybe he will play in XML / Wrestling.

[YoloinOhio]

49 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Rudolph started this. He should have been suspended for 1 game.  At a minimum he should be fined. 

Garrett should get minimum 8 games

He is reportedly going to be fined. But Garrett actually started it by hitting him late with 14 seconds to go in a game that wasn’t in question, and then laying on him and not getting up. Rudolph escalated it, but didn’t start it out of the blue. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

They started out the "Lo Down"  with Lorenzo Alexander talking about this.

 

Murphy asked Lorenzo how you know when to stop.....how do you find the line and say "oh, nope, can't do that, that's over the top?" 

Zo said "I don't know...by the Grace of God" and went on to explain that it's his teammates that save a guy, that hold him back or hold the other guy back.

He said that's saved him a couple of times, and that's really the only saving grace "because you see nothing but Red" and "it's fight or flight, most times guys gonna fight and whatever they have in their hands or not in their hands, that's what they gonna swing, they really don't care"

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/the-lo-down-with-lorenzo-alexander-x3481

 

Interesting perspective.

[Jerry Jabber]

12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

1:43 in that video is Rudolph on his back in the end zone, with Garrett being covered by Decastro a few yards away. No wonder your interpretation of the fight is off base!

Maybe you should make an optometrist appointment 

 

 

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

So how does Rudolph’s injury compare to Tre White’s from Gronk? Not saying Garrett was innocent, just saying the NFL is a joke. 

Right and someone got hurt. No one got hurt yesterday. What a joke. 

 

Gronk should have definitely been suspended for that, but there are a few key differences:

 

1. Exposure: That game was not nationally televised in prime-time. No one outside of Buffalo gave a ***** about that game. Not even NE fans who chalked it up as a win the day the schedule came out.

 

2. Optics: Right or wrong, the image of a guy hitting another guy in the helmet with an arm (metal brace notwithstanding) doesn't have the visual effect seeing someone hit in the bare head with a hard object does.

 

3. Patriot immunity: This one needs no explanation.

 

 

Bottom line: NFL discipline has nothing to do with right and wrong; it is only about protecting the brand. Any assumption that it would (or even should) be about anything else is incredibly naive. It's a sports league and a business, not an institutional arbiter of justice.

 

That's why I find it silly when segments of the population get indignant about the NFL's need to police the private personal conduct of its employees. As someone who supports economic freedom, I also support the NFL's right to place conditions on the private behavior of its employees based on principles of freedom to contract. However, I see no basis for the imposition of an obligation to police such behavior or to enforce public morality.

 

The latter is an impossible task as there is no single moral standard that is accepted throughout the country, much less the world (as the NFL seeks to expand its market globally). There isn't even an agreed moral standard on this board, as evidenced by the disagreements in this very thread. That's why efforts to effectuate that end are folly.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Maybe you should make an optometrist appointment 

 

 

Oh my sweet summer child. Watch the video again for me and take a screen shot at 1:43. Thanks.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

He is reportedly going to be fined. But Garrett actually started it by hitting him late with 14 seconds to go in a game that wasn’t in question, and then laying on him and not getting up. Rudolph escalated it, but didn’t start it out of the blue. 

 

I agree the whole thing doesn't happen if Garrett doesn't make that hit. However the dramatic escalation was caused by Rudolph pulling on the back of Garrett's helmet.

 

One has to wonder what was being said while Garrett was laying on top of him if anything.

[Rob's House]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm talking about Rudolph lying on his back and very clearly grabbing Garrett's face mask and trying to use it to rip Garrett's helmet off his head, which went on for several seconds, unsuccessfully.

 

That is what lit up Garrett who then thought "you want to rip my helmet off? I'll rip off yours!"

 

 

 

If Garrett stopped after ripping off Rudolph's helmet, no one gets suspended.

 

I don't see how Garrett going the extra mile and swinging the helmet at Rudolph's head somehow makes Rudolph's behavior more egregious.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

Gronk should have definitely been suspended for that, but there are a few key differences:

 

1. Exposure: That game was not nationally televised in prime-time. No one outside of Buffalo gave a ***** about that game. Not even NE fans who chalked it up as a win the day the schedule came out.

 

2. Optics: Right or wrong, the image of a guy hitting another guy in the helmet with an arm (metal brace notwithstanding) doesn't have the visual effect seeing someone hit in the bare head with a hard object does.

 

3. Patriot immunity: This one needs no explanation.

 

 

Bottom line: NFL discipline has nothing to do with right and wrong; it is only about protecting the brand. Any assumption that it would (or even should) be about anything else is incredibly naive. It's a sports league and a business, not an institutional arbiter of justice.

 

That's why I find it silly when segments of the population get indignant about the NFL's need to police the private personal conduct of its employees. As someone who supports economic freedom, I also support the NFL's right to place conditions on the private behavior of its employees based on principles of freedom to contract. However, I see no basis for the imposition of an obligation to police such behavior or to enforce public morality.

 

The latter is an impossible task as there is no single moral standard that is accepted throughout the country, much less the world (as the NFL seeks to expand its market globally). There isn't even an agreed moral standard on this board, as evidenced by the disagreements in this very thread. That's why efforts to effectuate that end are folly.

 

Good post.  To the bolded, even in prime time and not involving the Patriots, if Rudolph and Garrett had both been down on the ground when the clocking occurred, it would not have had the same impact even if it did involve hitting someone in the head with a hard object.  Edit: that's not to say it wouldn't have been as wrong, it's just to the point about the NFL "protecting the brand" (valid) and the visual impact to the public.

 

One reason I found the Lo Down and 'Zo's perspective so interesting is because he clearly saw the whole incident from a lens of something he came close to himself a time or two in his career and maybe avoided only through the help of cooler heads keeping him and the other players apart. 

 

And I think 'Zo is a class act while Garrett is a punk (JMO).  The point being per Zo that even class act players, on the football field, are of necessity playing close to that edge.

[Virgil]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Yikes bro you serious, one or two games lol

 

For reference, the following plays resulted in suspensions of exactly zero games-

 

 

 

And I’m good with those plays earning suspensions too 

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good post.  To the bolded, even in prime time and not involving the Patriots, if Rudolph and Garrett had both been down on the ground when the clocking occurred, it would not have had the same impact even if it did involve hitting someone in the head with a hard object.

 

One reason I found the Lo Down and 'Zo's perspective so interesting is because he clearly saw the whole incident from a lens of something he came close to himself a time or two in his career and maybe avoided only through the help of cooler heads keeping him and the other players apart.  And I think 'Zo is a class act while Garrett is a punk.

 

That's true.

 

One other point I forgot to include under optics is the fight that ensued afterward with Pouncey and DeCastro on Garrett. No one on the Bills went after Gronk.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Virgil said:

And I’m good with those plays earning suspensions too 

OK well just be aware that what you want Rudolph suspended for is what amounts to a 5 yard hands to the face penalty in a game