McDermott on no trades: "There have been too many years of irresponsible decision-making, let's just put it that way."

[kota]

interesting comment.  Bills have been very active trading wise since him and Beane came to down.  I don't remember Doug doing a ton of trades.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

Dude, the offense is basically have of a team, and you want people to give an honest criticism of the team, MINUS the most glaring issue. 

Look at the roster! The talent is on one side of the ball...who in their right mind was expecting fireworks offensively?

Seriously, what more were you possibly expecting?

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Probably having a Benjamin flash back

[Jrb1979]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Look at the roster! The talent is on one side of the ball...who in their right mind was expecting fireworks offensively?

Seriously, what more were you possibly expecting?

To be closer to the middle of the pack. Considering who they have played their offense should be much better then it is. The biggest problem is trying to make Allen a pocket passer, when he should be more like Murray. Let him run around and make plays. Build an offense around that instead of of this short passing offense that he has trouble excelling in. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Let me put this another way: what could a rational observer of this team reasonably expect to be better? Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

You aren't actually suggesting the team is literally perfect at this point in time, are you?  I.E., it would be impossible for anything to be better?  

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

You aren't actually suggesting the team is literally perfect at this point in time, are you?  I.E., it would be impossible for anything to be better?  

 

 

 

Right on cue.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Agreed....when we traded for him I thought it was going to be a good trade

We have absolutely no idea what teams were asking for in compensation for a trade

 

For instance....Corey Davis....I actually like him....what if the Titans were just asking for too much?

I understand I have no idea what the value was out there, I get that but you're telling me a guy like DT Andrew Billings on a 1 year deal was going for more than a 4th? Kenyan Drake went for a 6th round pick that can turn into a 5th round pick, I'm not saying I wanted Drake but there were no guys even on the cheap who could have helped us at any position? I just didn't care for it and to say it the way he did seems very egotistical imo. 

[Bing Bong]

I can respect that

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:30 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Oh snap. 

 

Watching Emmanuel Sanders with SF , now makes me wonder if we should have went after a WR. Kenyan Drake killed it too.

 

 

On 10/30/2019 at 11:31 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

hope to hear about this conversation some day.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Watching Emmanuel Sanders with SF , now makes me wonder if we should have went after a WR. Kenyan Drake killed it too.

 

Yes, both are looking like "Oh, Snap!" counterpoints to McDermott's comment at present

 

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Let me put this another way: what could a rational observer of this team reasonably expect to be better? Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

 

"Other than THAT, Mrs Lincoln, How did you like the Play?"

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

12 hours ago, Mark92 said:

There seems to be a lot of hate being thrown towards McDermott in this thread.  I am very surprised.  The man got a lesser team to the playoffs then what Rex had and went 5-11.  Then he followed it up by leading probably the worst team in the league to 6-10.  Now they are 5-2 and 10 wins is a real possibility.  What am I missing??

12 wins is a real possibility.

[oldmanfan]

Folks now are criticizing this McD comment.  Bottom line is this, not just for the Bills but for any professional sports team.  You bring in new management, including a HC and GM, they are going to have their own philosophy about how to build a successful team.  If they are successful, then they're heroes.  IF they're not, they get fired.

 

McD and Beane have been as clear as day about their philosophies.  It's time for folks to realize that, and not be surprised when they stick to their philosophy. 

[SoTier]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:30 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Oh snap. 

 

Yepper.  Blame the lack of talent on the current roster on the previous regime after three years of McDermott and Beane shaping the roster to their own specs.

[GG]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Let me put this another way: what could a rational observer of this team reasonably expect to be better? Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

 

Some rational observers would like to see the defense, in the 3rd year of a defensive coach's tenure exert its will on inferior opponents.  It's expected that a project QB in his second year will struggle.

 

This may seem nitpicky to some, but we can't ignore the spectacular luck Bills enjoyed thanks to 2 opposing kicker meltdowns.  But even leaving that out, everyone forgets the tremendous luck against the Jets when Robbie Anderson got clear behind coverage twice late in 4Q, how they let Giants hang around too long, allowed Cincy to drive down the field for the entire second half.   This defense still struggles with veteran QBs three years into McD's regime.

 

That's why this discussion is very apt in this thread.  Were they aggressive enough to add to the pass rush when game changing players were available?  You can argue that Adrian Clayborn and Ziggy Ansah are far better options opposite Hughes than what Murphy has been delivering.  Would this defense be strides better with Khalil Mack, and without Ed Oliver and whoever will be next year's first rounder?   Chances are that Bills don't pick in Top 10 in '19 anyway if Mack was on the roster.

 

The irresponsible transactions can also include sitting pat and collecting mid-late round draft picks.  That in itself is a contradiction.  If Beane is somewhat happy with his roster now in a fight for the playoffs, will the team be much more improved next year utilizing its 9 draft picks (5 selections in rounds 5-6) or use some of that late round draft capital to acquire a proven player now?

 

Beane & McDermott keep talking about building through the draft, but after 3 drafts by this regime, only 1 pick out of 11 in the late rounds (Milano) is a starter.  Three drafts is enough history to judge a front office and at this point it's certainly valid for a rational observer to question a strategy that hordes late round picks for future potential at the expense of using them to add bona fide NFL talent.

[Mango]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Look at the roster! The talent is on one side of the ball...who in their right mind was expecting fireworks offensively?

Seriously, what more were you possibly expecting?

 

You are moving the goal posts. You asked for a criticism of the team, outside of the largest criticism of the team, which is a stupid exercise to interject yourself in. Now it is, well there isn't enough talent. It is year 3, given FA, it does not take that long to move from bad, to mediocre. They currently are not as good as the offense they inherited.  It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball.   2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. 

 

They have invested more than enough to not be 19th in YPG, 25th in offensive plays, and 24th in points per game...all of which the Bills are the last ranked team above .500

Josh Allen- 2x 1sts

Dawkins- 2nd

Ford-2nd

Zay Jones- 2nd

Devin Singletary- 3rd

Kelvin Benjamin- 3rd

Mitch Morris- 2nd Highest paid center in the NFL 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

17 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

You are moving the goal posts. You asked for a criticism of the team, outside of the largest criticism of the team, which is a stupid exercise to interject yourself in. Now it is, well there isn't enough talent. It is year 3, given FA, it does not take that long to move from bad, to mediocre. They currently are not as good as the offense they inherited.  It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball.   2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. 

 

They have invested more than enough to not be 19th in YPG, 25th in offensive plays, and 24th in points per game...all of which the Bills are the last ranked team above .500

Josh Allen- 2x 1sts

Dawkins- 2nd

Ford-2nd

Zay Jones- 2nd

Devin Singletary- 3rd

Kelvin Benjamin- 3rd

Mitch Morris- 2nd Highest paid center in the NFL 

 

The only guy on that list that is a proven difference make is Morris. 

 

If Singletary can’t catch the foot consistently or can’t beat out a 36 yo RB then we are in serious trouble at RB because Yeldon sucks. If he is having fumbling issues in practice that’s not good either.

 

Josh Allen as of right now would be considered a slightly better than average starting QB. He’s still a very raw QB and will be given another year to produce before he gets the Trubiski treatment.

 

Dawkins has been solid but I feel like LT is a area that needs a upgrade. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Folks now are criticizing this McD comment.  Bottom line is this, not just for the Bills but for any professional sports team.  You bring in new management, including a HC and GM, they are going to have their own philosophy about how to build a successful team.  If they are successful, then they're heroes.  IF they're not, they get fired.

 

McD and Beane have been as clear as day about their philosophies.  It's time for folks to realize that, and not be surprised when they stick to their philosophy. 

This makes no sense. What is their philosophy? Beane traded for KB and has wasted draft picks moving up in the draft to target certain players. So I'm not sure what philosophy you are referencing. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

46 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

The only guy on that list that is a proven difference make is Morris. 

 

If Singletary can’t catch the foot consistently or can’t beat out a 36 yo RB then we are in serious trouble at RB because Yeldon sucks. If he is having fumbling issues in practice that’s not good either.

 

Josh Allen as of right now would be considered a slightly better than average starting QB. He’s still a very raw QB and will be given another year to produce before he gets the Trubiski treatment.

 

Dawkins has been solid but I feel like LT is a area that needs a upgrade. 

 

We have 2 returning starters on offense. And those two are Dawkins, who is solid, and Allen, who is a second year QB.  This offense may not come around, but, man, people are super critical of this brand new offense. 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

This makes no sense. What is their philosophy? Beane traded for KB and has wasted draft picks moving up in the draft to target certain players. So I'm not sure what philosophy you are referencing. 

They are going to build through the draft and use free agency judiciously to fill holes.  So when they didn't make some big midseason trade it is consistent with their philosophy.  Only time they did that was with Benjamin.  And yes, that was a poor decision.  Not all decisions work out, and that goes for every team in the league.

[SoTier]

40 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

This makes no sense. What is their philosophy? Beane traded for KB and has wasted draft picks moving up in the draft to target certain players. So I'm not sure what philosophy you are referencing. 

 

Their "philosophy" is to maintain their job security, pacify the fans, and make as much profit as possible.   By getting rid of all of the talented (and expensive) players from the previous regime with bogus claims that they "weren't good fits" or "didn't want to be here" or "were mistakes"  and claiming to want to "build through the draft", they've given themselves years of cover for their lack of progress in replacing the talent they inherited.   That -- and creating a huge amount of dead cap space in 2018 -- also gives them the excuse to not pursue first tier players who might be on the trade block or available as FAs.

 

If the Bills under Pegula/Brandon/Beane/McDermott were truly interested in building a winning team,  Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, Shady McCoy and several other lesser players wouldn't now be playing for other teams.  If the Bills "brain trust" was truly interested in building a winning team, McDermott would have hired a bonafide QB coach from the start of his tenure not wait until his third year to replace his pal Culley who last coached QBs thirty plus years ago!

 

This team isn't building anything "the right way".  They're muddling through and hoping that somehow Josh Allen, despite his flaws as a passer and the serious lack of talent around him and the non-existent to mediocre coaching he's received, can somehow become a true franchise QB and give them cred as "geniuses" for recognizing him as a "diamond in the rough".

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Year 3 under McDermott. The offense is still a bottom of the league unit.... the Bills offense was in the upper half of the league in points scored the year before McDermott was hired. The offense has been substantially worse since. It’s more than fair to be skeptical of this regimes judgement on offensive decision making. 

McDermott has a plan, and its frankly an obvious one: rebuild defense, then rebuild offense. We are in year two with our developmental QB.  Be critical of the plan, I get it. But if you expect the offense to be that much better at the half way point with that much turnover, than that is on you. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Folks now are criticizing this McD comment.  Bottom line is this, not just for the Bills but for any professional sports team.  You bring in new management, including a HC and GM, they are going to have their own philosophy about how to build a successful team.  If they are successful, then they're heroes.  IF they're not, they get fired.

 

McD and Beane have been as clear as day about their philosophies.  It's time for folks to realize that, and not be surprised when they stick to their philosophy. 

Completely agree with this. I just hate trying to blame previous regimes. It’s like what every new politician taking office tries to do. It’s disingenuous.

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Everyone has a plan. If the plan is for the offense to be below average then everything’s going as planned.?? 

 

It it doesn’t take four years to build a good offense.....especially when the offense that you took over was already a pretty good one.?

 

He drafted his QB last year . . . 

 

It isn't like he walked in thinking the QB situation was all set. But hey, you think he should have started sooner, that is fine.  

 

But, don't pretend the rebuild started three years ago. For this team, it started last year when they drafted Allen. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Their "philosophy" is to maintain their job security, pacify the fans, and make as much profit as possible.   By getting rid of all of the talented (and expensive) players from the previous regime with bogus claims that they "weren't good fits" or "didn't want to be here" or "were mistakes"  and claiming to want to "build through the draft", they've given themselves years of cover for their lack of progress in replacing the talent they inherited.   That -- and creating a huge amount of dead cap space in 2018 -- also gives them the excuse to not pursue first tier players who might be on the trade block or available as FAs.

 

If the Bills under Pegula/Brandon/Beane/McDermott were truly interested in building a winning team,  Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, Shady McCoy and several other lesser players wouldn't now be playing for other teams.  If the Bills "brain trust" was truly interested in building a winning team, McDermott would have hired a bonafide QB coach from the start of his tenure not wait until his third year to replace his pal Culley who last coached QBs thirty plus years ago!

 

This team isn't building anything "the right way".  They're muddling through and hoping that somehow Josh Allen, despite his flaws as a passer and the serious lack of talent around him and the non-existent to mediocre coaching he's received, can somehow become a true franchise QB and give them cred as "geniuses" for recognizing him as a "diamond in the rough".

Here we go with the profit crap yet again.  There is a salary cap and the revenue from it is from TV. 

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Their "philosophy" is to maintain their job security, pacify the fans, and make as much profit as possible.   By getting rid of all of the talented (and expensive) players from the previous regime with bogus claims that they "weren't good fits" or "didn't want to be here" or "were mistakes"  and claiming to want to "build through the draft", they've given themselves years of cover for their lack of progress in replacing the talent they inherited.   That -- and creating a huge amount of dead cap space in 2018 -- also gives them the excuse to not pursue first tier players who might be on the trade block or available as FAs.

 

If the Bills under Pegula/Brandon/Beane/McDermott were truly interested in building a winning team,  Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, Shady McCoy and several other lesser players wouldn't now be playing for other teams.  If the Bills "brain trust" was truly interested in building a winning team, McDermott would have hired a bonafide QB coach from the start of his tenure not wait until his third year to replace his pal Culley who last coached QBs thirty plus years ago!

 

This team isn't building anything "the right way".  They're muddling through and hoping that somehow Josh Allen, despite his flaws as a passer and the serious lack of talent around him and the non-existent to mediocre coaching he's received, can somehow become a true franchise QB and give them cred as "geniuses" for recognizing him as a "diamond in the rough".

Brandon. Is. Not. An Employee. Of. The. Buffalo.  Bills.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Here we go with the profit crap yet again.  There is a salary cap and the revenue from it is from TV. 

Brandon. Is. Not. An Employee. Of. The. Buffalo.  Bills.

 

I've never loved a poster more than @SoTier. I cannot believe he is a real person. It is amazing. 

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I've never loved a poster more than @SoTier. I cannot believe he is a real person. It is amazing. 

So true, it’s like he practices in front of a mirror so to speak,  amazingly windy when he gets on a roll...  

[Nextmanup]

17 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Their "philosophy" is to maintain their job security, pacify the fans, and make as much profit as possible.   By getting rid of all of the talented (and expensive) players from the previous regime with bogus claims that they "weren't good fits" or "didn't want to be here" or "were mistakes"  and claiming to want to "build through the draft", they've given themselves years of cover for their lack of progress in replacing the talent they inherited.   That -- and creating a huge amount of dead cap space in 2018 -- also gives them the excuse to not pursue first tier players who might be on the trade block or available as FAs.

 

If the Bills under Pegula/Brandon/Beane/McDermott were truly interested in building a winning team,  Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, Shady McCoy and several other lesser players wouldn't now be playing for other teams.  If the Bills "brain trust" was truly interested in building a winning team, McDermott would have hired a bonafide QB coach from the start of his tenure not wait until his third year to replace his pal Culley who last coached QBs thirty plus years ago!

 

This team isn't building anything "the right way".  They're muddling through and hoping that somehow Josh Allen, despite his flaws as a passer and the serious lack of talent around him and the non-existent to mediocre coaching he's received, can somehow become a true franchise QB and give them cred as "geniuses" for recognizing him as a "diamond in the rough".

Sweet Mother of God, this is one of the best posts I've read at this forum this year.

 

In a "win now" league, McBeane have convinced Pegula that a 5-7 year, slow, methodical rebuild is the only way to go, including a mini tank year that was completely sacrificed to "fix the salary cap situation" (2018).

 

If you're knocking down 7 figure annual salaries, big, long multi-year rebuilds make a lot of sense!  If you are unlikely to ever get another HC/GM job after your stint in Buffalo is over, those big, long multi-year rebuilds make even more sense!

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And? These are merely excuses.

 

Did you watch the game last night? Arizona has a 1st QB, HC, and offense and are better offensively in just about every category then Buffalo. 

 

"merely excuses" is code for "I am having a temper tantrum and I don't want to think." 

 

Arizona also has a losing record and isn't going to the playoffs. We went McD's first year and will more than likely go this year. 

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

"Other than THAT, Mrs Lincoln, How did you like the Play?"

 

 

Lincoln got shot and died. The Bills are 5-2.

 

Next.

[Reader]

55 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely agree with this. I just hate trying to blame previous regimes. It’s like what every new politician taking office tries to do. It’s disingenuous.

 

 

 

The irony is that economically the smartest thing to do during an NFL draft is to trade down due to injuries and simply a scouting departments inability to be accurate 100% of the time. And despite that, this regime seems way more likely to trade up.

 

Article on why trading down is the best thing to do

Edited November 1, 2019 by Reader
Adding link

[YoloinOhio]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Watching Emmanuel Sanders with SF , now makes me wonder if we should have went after a WR. Kenyan Drake killed it too.

 

 

 

hope to hear about this conversation some day.

 

 

Albert Breer reported that they went after both Sanders and Sanu. Regarding sanders I doubt Denver was going to jump to trade him to a team they face in a few weeks if they had other suitors. Drake was actually in the the division so that’s rarely done for a starter who they think can still play 

Edited November 1, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

The only guy on that list that is a proven difference make is Morris. 

 

If Singletary can’t catch the foot consistently or can’t beat out a 36 yo RB then we are in serious trouble at RB because Yeldon sucks. If he is having fumbling issues in practice that’s not good either.

 

Josh Allen as of right now would be considered a slightly better than average starting QB. He’s still a very raw QB and will be given another year to produce before he gets the Trubiski treatment.

 

Dawkins has been solid but I feel like LT is a area that needs a upgrade. 

 

Like I said: 
It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball.   2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. 

 

Also, I do think that both the WR and OL are significantly upgraded from last year. I am sick of hearing that we need a future HOF-er like Julio Jones in order for our QB/offense to reach average. Most of the league finds production without Julio Jones. I really don't think is above average yet. In fact I think he is well below in basically every single column on NFL.com

 

Completion %- 32/37-QB's with over 80 passing attempts, only current starter he is ahead of is Baker and Fitz

Yards per game- 26th- only current starters he is ahead of are Fitz (he has been in and out this is skued), Kyle Allen, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Mitch Trubisky, Mason Rudolph (left game early when he looked like he died)

TD's- 20th- 9 TD's- Tied with Case Keenum, Teddy B (Backup- Started 5 games), Kyler Murray(Rookie), Mason Rudolph (Started 4 games). Andy Dalton (benched) 

INT's- 6th or 46th- Depends on how you want to look at it. Only ahead of Matt Ryan, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold in terms of QB's still starting. Tied with Fitz, Jimmy G, Rivers, Daniel Jones, Dak, and Goff

1st Down %- 22/37 with 80+ attempts- Starters he is ahead of Wentz, Fitz, Murray, Trubisky, Darnold, Baker, Daniel Jones, Rudolph

Sacks- T-9th most- Despite one of the better graded PP lines- Tied with Wilson and Matt Ryan- Only Starters ahead of- Baker, Jones, Watson, Murray. 

Rating- 30th- Minimum 80 passing attempts- Current starters ranked lower- Fitz, Baker, Darnold

 

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Like I said: 
It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball.   2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. 

 

Also, I do think that both the WR and OL are significantly upgraded from last year. I am sick of hearing that we need a future HOF-er like Julio Jones in order for our QB/offense to reach average. Most of the league finds production without Julio Jones. I really don't think is above average yet. In fact I think he is well below in basically every single column on NFL.com

 

Completion %- 32/37-QB's with over 80 passing attempts, only current starter he is ahead of is Baker and Fitz

Yards per game- 26th- only current starters he is ahead of are Fitz (he has been in and out this is skued), Kyle Allen, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Mitch Trubisky, Mason Rudolph (left game early when he looked like he died)

TD's- 20th- 9 TD's- Tied with Case Keenum, Teddy B (Backup- Started 5 games), Kyler Murray(Rookie), Mason Rudolph (Started 4 games). Andy Dalton (benched) 

INT's- 6th or 46th- Depends on how you want to look at it. Only ahead of Matt Ryan, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold in terms of QB's still starting. Tied with Fitz, Jimmy G, Rivers, Daniel Jones, Dak, and Goff

1st Down %- 22/37 with 80+ attempts- Starters he is ahead of Wentz, Fitz, Murray, Trubisky, Darnold, Baker, Daniel Jones, Rudolph

Sacks- T-9th most- Despite one of the better graded PP lines- Tied with Wilson and Matt Ryan- Only Starters ahead of- Baker, Jones, Watson, Murray. 

Rating- 30th- Minimum 80 passing attempts- Current starters ranked lower- Fitz, Baker, Darnold

 

 

 

If he keeps playing like he is he will be getting the Trubiski treatment sooner rather than later. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lincoln got shot and died. The Bills are 5-2.

 

Next.

 

Let's recap.  You said " Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

 

That is in fact a "Other than the fact that your husband got shot and died, Mrs Lincoln, what did you think of the play?" situation because while we don't need a top offense to win consistently with a strong D, we need one that is more productive than we've had to date and the current regime bears responsibility for that.  We don't have true offensive playmakers because we let some decent ones we had walk in FA (Woods) or cut them (McCoy) in favor of trading for ineffective players like Kelvin Benjamin, trading up in the draft to take a rookie we just shipped off for next years' 5th, and drafting a 3rd round RB who can't seem to get the ball.  Then we eschew the chance to get a decent RB or a good veteran WR in trade and our head coach references "irresponsible decision making". 

 

What more do I want is for the Bills and some fans to stop making excuses for lack of offensive production and for this team to start maximizing the production of the players we actually do have - two proven decent to good vet WR,  a vet TE who just returned from injury, a promising rookie RB and TE, and an aging but still effective HOF RB.  In 2011, Chan Gailey got better production out of Fitz and the Goonies fercripesake.

 

No one should believe that the formations and the play sequences Daboll uses at times are reasonably the most effective way to use the players we have.  DiMarco and Lee Smith out wide, are you freakin' kidding me?  Empty backfields.  As someone here said, a not very expert observer who has watched all our games can look at the Bills O and call "gonna be a run play" or "gonna be a pass play" with very high efficiency.  You say elsewhere it's "complaining for complaining's sake" but it's not - these are examples of failing to put the best players in the best positions to make plays and to support our QB by keeping the defense off-balance and making things easier for him.  It's part of a pattern that leads to less effective offensive production. 

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

What more do I want is for the Bills and some fans to stop making excuses for lack of offensive production and start maximizing the production of the players we actually do have - two proven decent to good vet WR,  a vet TE who just returned from injury, a promising rookie RB and TE, and an aging but still effective HOF RB.

 

But...butt...if we could just get a WR1 we would be all set.  Common theme I've heard too much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He drafted his QB last year . . . 

 

It isn't like he walked in thinking the QB situation was all set. But hey, you think he should have started sooner, that is fine.  

 

But, don't pretend the rebuild started three years ago. For this team, it started last year when they drafted Allen. 

 

Um, why shouldn't we, not pretend, but acknowledge that the rebuild started 3 years ago? 

 

McDermott had power during the FA period and during the draft.  Why shouldn't he get graded on the calls he made?  He drafted WR Zay Jones and G Dion Dawkins (currently playing LT) in the 2nd.  He drafted Nate Peterman in the 5th and started him mid season that year.  He didn't appear to make much push to resign Woods.  Beane traded a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin and a DB who contributed to a Superbowl Championship for Jordan Matthews that fall.

 

Look, I get it no GM/coach have 100% hit rate, but why is it "pretending" not to grade them on what they did on offense those years?  They get all the credit in the world for signing Poyer, Hyde, and drafting Tre White, why do they get a pass on what they did offensively in the same timeframe?

 

 

8 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

But...butt...if we could just get a WR1 we would be all set.  Common theme I've heard too much.

 

It would help.  I truly believe it would help a lot to have a better WR1.  But in the meantime, I'm at the corner of "Quit with the Excuses" Street and "Make better use of the Guys you Have" Lane

[GoBills808]

36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let's recap.  You said " Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

 

That is in fact a "Other than the fact that your husband got shot and died, Mrs Lincoln, what did you think of the play?" situation because while we don't need a top offense to win consistently with a strong D, we need one that is more productive than we've had to date and the current regime bears responsibility for that.  We don't have true offensive playmakers because we let some decent ones we had walk in FA (Woods) or cut them (McCoy) in favor of trading for ineffective players like Kelvin Benjamin, trading up in the draft to take a rookie we just shipped off for next years' 5th, and drafting a 3rd round RB who can't seem to get the ball.  Then we eschew the chance to get a decent RB or a good veteran WR in trade and our head coach references "irresponsible decision making". 

 

What more do I want is for the Bills and some fans to stop making excuses for lack of offensive production and for this team to start maximizing the production of the players we actually do have - two proven decent to good vet WR,  a vet TE who just returned from injury, a promising rookie RB and TE, and an aging but still effective HOF RB.  In 2011, Chan Gailey got better production out of Fitz and the Goonies fercripesake.

 

No one should believe that the formations and the play sequences Daboll uses at times are reasonably the most effective way to use the players we have.  DiMarco and Lee Smith out wide, are you freakin' kidding me?  Empty backfields.  As someone here said, a not very expert observer who has watched all our games can look at the Bills O and call "gonna be a run play" or "gonna be a pass play" with very high efficiency.  You say elsewhere it's "complaining for complaining's sake" but it's not - these are examples of failing to put the best players in the best positions to make plays and to support our QB by keeping the defense off-balance and making things easier for him.  It's part of a pattern that leads to less effective offensive production. 

 

Quickly- which team has had, up until this point, the more productive passing offense: the 8-0 49ers or the 5-2 Bills? 

[ColoradoBills]

18 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

You and I both know they won't extend Lawson and its BS. He will get a decent deal in free agency. He might opt for a 1yr prove it deal with someone else hoping a different coaching staff will give him more opportunities and thus a bigger signing bonus the following year.

Poyer is underpaid but Bills have leverage.  They have other safeties on the roster and will almost certainly draft one next year.

Agree they should extend Tre, but they won't.  They will just use the 5th year extension to buy some time.

Im not as enamored with Milano as most but he has mostly made me look silly. Again, there is no need to extend him. He's signed on a rookie deal for two more years. He is not an all-pro so he has little leverage. 

Save the dollars for 2021 or spend on edge, wr, or OT this offseason

 

I think there is no way they let Tre go and play on a 5th year option.  They will extend his contract next year and use next year (last of rookie contract)

to ease the signing bonus.

I see a good chance the same happening to Poyer.

As for Milano he is on his last year of his rookie contract next year.

 

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Sweet Mother of God, this is one of the best posts I've read at this forum this year.

 

In a "win now" league, McBeane have convinced Pegula that a 5-7 year, slow, methodical rebuild is the only way to go, including a mini tank year that was completely sacrificed to "fix the salary cap situation" (2018).

 

If you're knocking down 7 figure annual salaries, big, long multi-year rebuilds make a lot of sense!  If you are unlikely to ever get another HC/GM job after your stint in Buffalo is over, those big, long multi-year rebuilds make even more sense!

 

 

 

LOL.  It is currently at 2.5 seasons since they took over.  Where in the heck are you getting 7 years from!

Exaggerate much?

Time will tell but I expect some big FA signings along with another decent draft.

Next March will be the START of year 4.

 

I guess you are in favor of Pegula cleaning house after this season?

If so, who is your hopeful GM/HC signings?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think there is no way they let Tre go and play on a 5th year option.  They will extend his contract next year and use next year (last of rookie contract)

to ease the signing bonus.

I see a good chance the same happening to Poyer.

As for Milano he is on his last year of his rookie contract next year.

 

 

LOL.  It is currently at 2.5 seasons since they took over.  Where in the heck are you getting 7 years from!

Exaggerate much?

Time will tell but I expect some big FA signings along with another decent draft.

Next March will be the START of year 4.

 

I guess you are in favor of Pegula cleaning house after this season?

If so, who is your hopeful GM/HC signings?

If I were GM I would do exactly what you recommend. But Beane will want Tre to take a little less for an earlier contract. He won't take anything less than top 2 CB money if not top dollar. Beane won't pay it knowing he can get another year or two of elite play on the cheap and still have the franchise tag for year 6.

My guess is Beane will use the cap money to sign a high priced free agent ( if there is any pattern to Beane it is overpaying) or take on a big contract in a trade.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

If I were GM I would do exactly what you recommend. But Beane will want Tre to take a little less for an earlier contract. He won't take anything less than top 2 CB money if not top dollar. Beane won't pay it knowing he can get another year or two of elite play on the cheap and still have the franchise tag for year 6.

My guess is Beane will use the cap money to sign a high priced free agent ( if there is any pattern to Beane it is overpaying) or take on a big contract in a trade.

 

That is a move I can see them making with other players but in Tre's case I don't (or let me reword that) and say I hope not.

Tre seems to be the "poster child" for McDermott and I see them locking him up early (a reward if you will) for not only his play but his

leadership and attitude.  He should be the perfect guy to re-sign early and show the rest of the locker room they walk the walk.

 

For my money it's going to be very interesting to see which way they go with him. 

It will be a big "tell" as to where this team is going in the future.