Let Josh be Josh?

[dorquemada]

Just now, BillsRdue said:

This is my pet peeve too. WTF are they doing to him. Timid legs, thinking too much, conservative shots.  I want some run and gun. The kid has skills which shouldn't be put into a box.

 

Agreed.  And even if he's not a top 10 QB, let him play his game, and get the most out of what he is rather than a pale facsimile of what he will never be

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

I don't know how much I put into such a stat, but in 2019 he was #1 in the league for the same metric...in 2019 he is #11, behind a lot of QBs of varying ability.

 

Reading their glossary on the stat, it's truly intended, not completed. So not connecting shouldn't have his average IAY down two yards.

 

Again, for whatever IAY is worth.

 

Averaging 11 yards intended per attempt (2018), is not a sustainable metric to hit. 

Allen is average-ish (and in decent company, tied with Rogers) in terms of average completion yards. But is one of the  worst in the league when it comes to air yards per attempt/air yards per reception differential. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, dorquemada said:

 

Agreed.  And even if he's not a top 10 QB, let him play his game, and get the most out of what he is rather than a pale facsimile of what he will never be

 

I don't need him to be Tom Brady. I need him to be him. I need Daboll to get his head out of his rectum.

[zow2]

Allen will be good, as long as what the OP suggested happens.  Let Josh be Josh. Stop trying to make him into something he's not.  

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Jackson has 11 passing TD on the year. 5 of those came in Miami, meaning he's averaging less than a td passing per game, since.

 

Your entire post was the joke, Wayne.

 

As if I’m the first to say it

 

Jackson is 5th among NFL QB’s in QBR (Allen is 25th).

 

13th in Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (Allen is 25th). 15th in passer rating (Allen is a dreadful 27th).

 

And 9th in the NFL in rushing.

 

Sit down, kid, before you embarrass yourself further.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

As if I’m the first to say it

 

Jackson is 5th among NFL QB’s in QBR (Allen is 25th).

 

13th in Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (Allen is 25th). 15th in passer rating (Allen is a dreadful 27th).

 

And 9th in the NFL in rushing.

 

Sit down, kid, before you embarrass yourself further.

 

Whatever, "kid." The RB is a RB. He's no MVP candidate at the QB position.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We drafted and traded up for him to not be a bottom 1/3 NFL passing team.  And that's where we are at.

I won't mind the turnovers if he does more good/positive plays.

 

He's compared to Farve a lot because of "gunslinger".  Yeah Farve made a lot of dumb decisions and threw a lot of INT's but you can live with that if they also make a lot of positive plays.  Right now there isn't enough good from Josh to overcome the bad.

 

The Favre comparisons never made any sense to me. Favre had an elite feel for the game. He made mistakes, but he also threw a hell of a lot of deep touchdowns. 

 

Josh isn't that. He's big, strong, and can run around, but his accuracy is simply way too hit and miss. His deep ball is quite frankly terrible and he misses open throws to the intermediate part of the field as well. 

 

At this stage, Josh is best doing what he's been doing, which is mostly dinking and dunking his way down the field, with the occasional big play when he escapes the pocket to his right, buys time and hits a receiver working back to him on the sideline. 

 

As I said, Josh isn't terrible, and we can probably win games with him and make the playoffs if the defense remains as good in future years, but this isn't a team that's built to have postseason success because the offense is just too much of a liability. 

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I don't need him to be Tom Brady. I need him to be him. I need Daboll to get his head out of his rectum.

 

Do you really think allowing Allen to throw the ball more will make the offense more successful?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Do you really think allowing Allen to throw the ball more will make the offense more successful?

 

I think allowing him to use his mobility and improv ability is what makes sense, NOT what they're doing with him now.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

1 hour ago, berg1029 said:

All of this "blame Daboll" stuff is laughable.  Has Dabolls play calling been perfect?  Not a chance.  But the real issue this past game was Josh's accuracy.  They weren't moving the chains like they have in the past, and a lot of that was on Josh just flat out missing throws.  He had the time.  Receivers were open.  But he just wasn't hitting them.  We know he can do better.  He just needs to execute.. that's all it comes down to imo 

 

Contrary to your take on this, I believe Daboll's game plan and play calling was a complete joke.  He apparently didn't realize that he was playing one of the worst secondaries in the league.  He continued to call running plays into a stacked box on first and second downs.  The Eagles have been killed with screens, seam routes, and throws to backs underneath deeper routes.  Daboll did almost none of this.  The Eagles gambled that Daboll would initially try to go run heavy on a windy day and he did exactly that.  When it became obvious that the Eagles were in clear pass rush mode, he did little to move the pocket or force them to cover the field from sideline to sideline.  There were some open receivers but the Eagles did a great job of bringing quick pressure up the middle to force Allen to move and destroy the timing of the play.  The Bills are also very predictable with the position groups they have on the field.  When he puts Lee Smith on the field with Gore, there is a very small probability that they will be passing and an even smaller probability that a throw will be going to either of them.  Good play callers break the tendencies, Daboll does little to do this.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I think allowing him to use his mobility and improv ability is what makes sense, NOT what they're doing with him now.

 

They move him around a fair amount. Seems like there are a handful of role outs per game.

 

The improv has been hit and miss. He often throws the ball into harms way when improvising.

 

I see them trying to do the basics with him, and he's struggling. 

Asking him to do more, when he's already struggling with the simple stuff seems counter intuitive. 

[Wayne Arnold]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Whatever, "kid." The RB is a RB. He's no MVP candidate at the QB position.

 

Damn. Someone get this boy a medic. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

They move him around a fair amount. Seems like there are a handful of role outs per game.

 

The improv has been hit and miss. He often throws the ball into harms way when improvising.

 

I see them trying to do the basics with him, and he's struggling. 

Asking him to do more, when he's already struggling with the simple stuff seems counter intuitive. 

 

You realize he's league tops in the short stuff?

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Damn. Someone get this boy a medic. 

 

 

?

[blacklabel]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I nee to go back and watch some of the earlier games where he came on in the fourth quarters, what plays were called, etc.  Seems to me he's much more decisive in those cases.

 

Yeah, he's a gamer, I think. Might not always be pretty but when they need it, he seems to come through. Didn't happen yesterday but he's not solely responsible for the loss.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Josh is not the problem.

9 new starters on offense, and the OC are the two biggest issues.

Josh is going to win the Bills a ton of games.

Every game is a learning experience for Josh. 

[Golden*Wheels]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Averaging 11 yards intended per attempt (2018), is not a sustainable metric to hit. 

Allen is average-ish (and in decent company, tied with Rogers) in terms of average completion yards. But is one of the  worst in the league when it comes to air yards per attempt/air yards per reception differential. 

Whether it is or isn't, you made the issue out as if it wasn't that we weren't TRYING, but that we weren't CONNECTING.

 

"The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them. "

 

Yet the stat you cited isn't based on the passes being caught.

 

"IAY shows the average Air Yards a passer throws on all attempts. This metric shows how far the ball is being thrown ‘downfield’. "

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/glossary

 

So the average being down 2 yards means just what it says...he's not throwing as far in the air on average, and that's not related to "connecting".  We're not trying to go downfield as much, on average. I don't even know if that stat is a great measure of downfield play, being an average, but hey, I didn't bring it up. If that wasn't a sustainable # in your mind, that's fine. But that wasn't my point. Just that the stat didn't actually back up what you said.

 

You want to keep bringing up other stats I'm happy to look at them but I'll have to make sure I know what they mean first.

 

[Jerome007]

Throwing the ball away like he is doing is GOOD, but seems so unnatural to him. But he has to keep doing it. Scrambles? Hell yes. Designed runs up the middle? Please no. 

 

For the rest, I concur that he needs to be let loose. He'll make many dumb mistakes but many great plays. He needs swagger to have fun and play better, that's his style.

 

 

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Contrary to your take on this, I believe Daboll's game plan and play calling was a complete joke.  He apparently didn't realize that he was playing one of the worst secondaries in the league.  He continued to call running plays into a stacked box on first and second downs.  The Eagles have been killed with screens, seam routes, and throws to backs underneath deeper routes.  Daboll did almost none of this.  The Eagles gambled that Daboll would initially try to go run heavy on a windy day and he did exactly that.  When it became obvious that the Eagles were in clear pass rush mode, he did little to move the pocket or force them to cover the field from sideline to sideline.  There were some open receivers but the Eagles did a great job of bringing quick pressure up the middle to force Allen to move and destroy the timing of the play.  The Bills are also very predictable with the position groups they have on the field.  When he puts Lee Smith on the field with Gore, there is a very small probability that they will be passing and an even smaller probability that a throw will be going to either of them.  Good play callers break the tendencies, Daboll does little to do this.

 

Daboll has had some great game plans. Yesterday was most certainly not one of them.

 

As I've said: Allen isn't ready to carry the offense without a very strong group of playmakers around him. If Goff and Mahomes can't do it, why do we expect Allen to handle it? Further, we especially shouldn't expect it in a timing-based offense built around precision execution from a group of below-average pass catchers.

 

If this team wants to win games this year, they're going to have to make a concerted effort to get Josh in a rhythm early to loosen teams up, then work the run and PA attack. It's the only way to both take advantage of Josh's efficient intermediate game and overcome their lack of playmaking talent in the passing game.

[BuffaloHokie13]

There are guys out there who I believe would mesh better with Josh and our O than Daboll, but I'm also hopeful that Daboll can adapt his scheme some. In NE they tend to adapt from opponent to opponent, so it shouldn't be too foreign to him.

[Jerome007]

27 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Do you really think allowing Allen to throw the ball more will make the offense more successful?

Nope. The offense needs more runs... from the RBs. And WR reverses. But Josh needs to be taken off his leash.

[Buffalo03]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offense meeting room.  I really wonder what goes on between the coaches and Josh Allen.  I'd love to know if, for example, they are asking him what plays he likes in the game plan, what plays he wants thrown out.  I'd love to know how much freedom he has in terms of checking to audibles. 

 

I say let Josh be Josh.  Give him the keys to the car and let him drive.   Give him freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage and so on.  If you look at his fourth quarter heroics (before yesterday, which just stunk across the board), Josh has done well.  When you do well in the fourth quarter it tells me the QB can make good decisions and good plays, make good reads and throws.  Some have commented that he looks tentative the last couple games, and I agree.  Let him play football.

I hope to God he asks Daboll to remove the designed QB runs or whatever the play is called that Allen fumbled on yesterday. I've seen enough of that play

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

I hope to God he asks Daboll to remove the designed QB runs or whatever the play is called that Allen fumbled on yesterday. I've seen enough of that play

 

daboll will think about your request over 11 pizzas and a nice tall glass of butter

[GG]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Daboll has had some great game plans. Yesterday was most certainly not one of them.

 

As I've said: Allen isn't ready to carry the offense without a very strong group of playmakers around him. If Goff and Mahomes can't do it, why do we expect Allen to handle it? Further, we especially shouldn't expect it in a timing-based offense built around precision execution from a group of below-average pass catchers.

 

If this team wants to win games this year, they're going to have to make a concerted effort to get Josh in a rhythm early to loosen teams up, then work the run and PA attack. It's the only way to both take advantage of Josh's efficient intermediate game and overcome their lack of playmaking talent in the passing game.

Isn't that essentially how they played it yesterday.  He was good until midway through 3Q, then the wheels fell off after Singletary TD.   Don't know if Schwartz threw some ghosts into coverage, but suddenly Allen looked a lot more confused than he did prior in the game. 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Golden*Wheels said:

Whether it is or isn't, you made the issue out as if it wasn't that we weren't TRYING, but that we weren't CONNECTING.

 

"The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them. "

 

Yet the stat you cited isn't based on the passes being caught.

 

"IAY shows the average Air Yards a passer throws on all attempts. This metric shows how far the ball is being thrown ‘downfield’. "

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/glossary

 

So the average being down 2 yards means just what it says...he's not throwing as far in the air on average, and that's not related to "connecting".  We're not trying to go downfield as much, on average. I don't even know if that stat is a great measure of downfield play, being an average, but hey, I didn't bring it up. If that wasn't a sustainable # in your mind, that's fine. But that wasn't my point. Just that the stat didn't actually back up what you said.

 

You want to keep bringing up other stats I'm happy to look at them but I'll have to make sure I know what they mean first.

 

 

You highlighted a single line. 

 

I went through a bunch of stats in that quote, and the first, Air Yards per Attempt, was in reference to people commenting about the offense not attempting balls down field. We are, and on average Allen is attempting long throws, more often, than about 2/3rds of the league. Sure he is down from 11 yards per attempt to 9 yards and change. 11 hasn't been sustainable for an QB in the league. Asking as much is futile. 

 

Allen is about average when it comes to average air yards per completion- he is in good company, but average none the less. 

 

His air yard differential (between average attempt, and average completion) is among the worst in the NFL. 

[dakrider]

Bills offense is definitely not hitting on all cylinders and hasn't this entire year.  I do put most the blame on Daboll.  And obviously Allen is a big part of that as well.  
I'm hoping the Bills are simply limiting Allen on purpose right now so he can become more a more controlled quarterback and then will gradually open it up.  But they just don't have time to wait for that.  If Bills could come out and get the lead in some games then you would think they might be more inclined to let Josh do more riskier plays. But instead they start trying to run the clock out in the 3rd qtr.  They can't continue to sit back and hope the other team makes a mistake.  Bills have to start taking it to the other teams offensively all game long and that includes letting Allen push the ball upfield.  Let Allen run if he needs to but stop the designed QB run plays on 3rd and 2.  

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, GG said:

Isn't that essentially how they played it yesterday.  He was good until midway through 3Q, then the wheels fell off after Singletary TD.   Don't know if Schwartz threw some ghosts into coverage, but suddenly Allen looked a lot more confused than he did prior in the game. 

 

Well, the first 2 drives were more or less telegraphed run-based from heavy sets. And once the offense put together a scoring drive, they did seem to be able to run, but got away from it very quickly when they fell behind.

[Chris66]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

There are guys out there who I believe would mesh better with Josh and our O than Daboll, but I'm also hopeful that Daboll can adapt his scheme some. In NE they tend to adapt from opponent to opponent, so it shouldn't be too foreign to him.

This is 100% spot on. This is not right system for a gunslinger

[Golden*Wheels]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

You highlighted a single line. 

 

I went through a bunch of stats in that quote, and the first, Air Yards per Attempt, was in reference to people commenting about the offense not attempting balls down field. We are, and on average Allen is attempting long throws, more often, than about 2/3rds of the league. Sure he is down from 11 yards per attempt to 9 yards and change. 11 hasn't been sustainable for an QB in the league. Asking as much is futile. 

 

Allen is about average when it comes to average air yards per completion- he is in good company, but average none the less. 

 

His air yard differential (between average attempt, and average completion) is among the worst in the NFL. 

 

 

I highlighted the same single line you put in your post that started this, see below, and that was all I really addressed. I pointed out that stat wasn't relevant to the point that "The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them". I did it nicely, and ti wasn't some kind of "gotcha" (I am just normally wary of new age stats so I was curisous enough to check the definition). Normally in the case of a statement regarding a specific stat, followed by a link to the statistical source, the statistical source reference is supposed to back you up. I don't think it does at all, even under your expanded explanation.

 

Again, I am perfectly willing to consider the other stuff you presented. But I also read English as it is written, and assume sentences are related to each other as a point. That stat has nothing to do with us "connecting" and the way you wrote the post implies it does.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

 

Josh Allen is 9th in the league in "Intended Air Yards per Attempt" 

 

The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them. 

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/all#average-intended-yards

 

 

 

 

[Golden*Wheels]

Is there a 20+ or 30+ yard throw NFL stat that ISN'T reliant on completion? Just attempts?

 

I could see the IAY stat as useful as a count of long throws past a certain yardage, regardless of completion. A guy would have so many X yard throws in his year, X being considered a "long ball", then you compare that. When they reduce it to average I think it loses any relevance except year to year, for THAT Qb.

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

 

 

I highlighted the same single line you put in your post that started this, see below, and that was all I really addressed. I pointed out that stat wasn't relevant to the point that "The issue isn't that we aren't trying. The issue is we aren't connecting on them". I did it nicely, and ti wasn't some kind of "gotcha" (I am just normally wary of new age stats so I was curisous enough to check the definition). Normally in the case of a statement regarding a specific stat, followed by a link to the statistical source, the statistical source reference is supposed to back you up. I don't think it does at all, even under your expanded explanation.

 

Again, I am perfectly willing to consider the other stuff you presented. But I also read English as it is written, and assume sentences are related to each other as a point. That stat has nothing to do with us "connecting" and the way you wrote the post implies it does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JESUS CHRIST DUDE...

 

It was in response to the below, but you ignored that, and continue to harp on it. 

 

The thing at issue is that if a D is worried about your deep passing attack, they can't stack 8 in the box every single play.  Josh Allen isn't making any D coordinators worried about that.  He will complete a couple per game that go for 25 yards but that's more the receiver getting YAC

 

Josh is attempting more air yards than 2/3 of the league. That stat line is relevant to the original post I was commenting on, who is saying DC's don't worry about it because we are not throwing it. In fact, our air yards per attempt are at the top of the league. 

 

I understood your original gripe with my response, so provided additional information to tell a complete story. (Which was actually already in this thread before you continued down this path) You ignored it twice now. This is a useless endeavor. You win, ya got me on a quick response from my phone.... feel better now? 

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Let him sling it. He has the talent to put a ball anywhere. But he needs to improve decision making. I think he second guesses himself.

it is almost as if after a bad decision some fat ####### berats him on the sideline in front of 70,000 people. 

[Golden*Wheels]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

JESUS CHRIST DUDE...

 

It was in response to the below, but you ignored that, and continue to harp on it. 

 

The thing at issue is that if a D is worried about your deep passing attack, they can't stack 8 in the box every single play.  Josh Allen isn't making any D coordinators worried about that.  He will complete a couple per game that go for 25 yards but that's more the receiver getting YAC

 

Josh is attempting more air yards than 2/3 of the league. That stat line is relevant to the original post I was commenting on, who is saying DC's don't worry about it because we are not throwing it. In fact, our air yards per attempt are at the top of the league. 

 

I understood your original gripe with my response, so provided additional information to tell a complete story. (Which was actually already in this thread before you continued down this path) You ignored it twice now. This is a useless endeavor. You win, ya got me on a quick response from my phone.... feel better now? 

 

The point wasn't to try to "get you" on anything dude. I just made a simple correction you didn't seem to want to acknowledge so i wasn't sure you even got it. Lighten up man.  Mangos are supposed to be island fruit, laid back and chill.

 

I actually considered the further stats as well, then added a hope that there was (what I feel would be) a far more relevant deep throw stat. His air yards average being above the lower 2/3 of the league is still easily contrasted with the fact that he was #1 last year. Even if his average wasn't sustainable...doesn't the drop in position  overall (on a stat where completions have nothing to do with it)  SOMEWHAT indicate we're going downfield less in you rmind? (Again, I don't really like this stat for that, I'd do a count, not an average).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malazan]

They drafted a gunslinger and have forced him into playing against his natural instincts...and it hasn't reduced the turnovers anyway. They should refine his abilities, not try to change him into an entirely different QB

[Mango]

16 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

 

The point wasn't to try to "get you" on anything dude. I just made a simple correction you didn't seem to want to acknowledge so i wasn't sure you even got it. Lighten up man.  Mangos are supposed to be island fruit, laid back and chill.

 

I actually considered the further stats as well, then added a hope that there was (what I feel would be) a far more relevant deep throw stat. His air yards average being above the lower 2/3 of the league is still easily contrasted with the fact that he was #1 last year. Even if his average wasn't sustainable...doesn't the drop in position  overall (on a stat where completions have nothing to do with it)  SOMEWHAT indicate we're going downfield less in you rmind? (Again, I don't really like this stat for that, I'd do a count, not an average).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apologies, it has been a long day. 

It doesn't concern me. I get it, technically it is less shots/depth because the numbers say so. But there are two QB's who have been able to be 10+ air yards per attempt in multiple seasons. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jameis Winston. That said, Guys like Wilson, Watson, Rogers, Mahommes seem to hang around 8.5-8 +/-.. Brady and Brees seem to have been living in the 7.5 to 8 range.  Seems like you need to be between good enough/capable and profecient. 

[Golden*Wheels]

16 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

Apologies, it has been a long day. 

It doesn't concern me. I get it, technically it is less shots/depth because the numbers say so. But there are two QB's who have been able to be 10+ air yards per attempt in multiple seasons. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jameis Winston. That said, Guys like Wilson, Watson, Rogers, Mahommes seem to hang around 8.5-8 +/-.. Brady and Brees seem to have been living in the 7.5 to 8 range.  Seems like you need to be between good enough/capable and profecient. 

No worries Mango, and sorry if I came off rough.

 

I really hate the idea that it's an average. Averages being so fickle at the outliers. I'd love if that very IAY stat was a count instead. Yeah, I'd still debate their definition of "long" probably but that's the key to me...how many times he pushes it downfield per season/game, not the average of each attempt. I'm gonna fall back on feel (always bad, no doubt) but it sure feels we take less down field shots than last year so far. With Josh I feel like that is playing away from strength. I'll see if I can find more to bolster (or blow up!), my feel.

[Elite Poster]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offense meeting room.  I really wonder what goes on between the coaches and Josh Allen.  I'd love to know if, for example, they are asking him what plays he likes in the game plan, what plays he wants thrown out.  I'd love to know how much freedom he has in terms of checking to audibles. 

 

I say let Josh be Josh.  Give him the keys to the car and let him drive.   Give him freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage and so on.  If you look at his fourth quarter heroics (before yesterday, which just stunk across the board), Josh has done well.  When you do well in the fourth quarter it tells me the QB can make good decisions and good plays, make good reads and throws.  Some have commented that he looks tentative the last couple games, and I agree.  Let him play football.

Absolutely this.

 

Why are we so scared to throw an INT isn't a 3 and out a ***** turnover? *Whispers* 

[transplantbillsfan]

This thread needs to be bumped after today

[Royale with Cheese]

He threw 41 times....

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Yes, he did. And how many of those passes were what we saw from him last year and earlier this season?

 

I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying.

[london_bills]

7 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

It really does. It bothers me what Daboll and McDermott have decided to do with the offense out of fear, really.

 

 

Last drive was awful. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

I'm saying that Josh is at his best with both designed and improvised rollouts.

 

Daboll's significantly handicapped him in that regard, and I think it's been to the offense's detriment.

 

Yeah Daboll could be better but Allen still doesn’t do things you would want from a guy after 20 starts.