Offensive identity?

[Big Blitz]

What was the game plan today?  

 

I know what the Eagles was.  Screens.  And beat us up front.  Carson you can run with it when you can.  And pick on Wallace.

 

What were we trying to do?

 

Should have been attacking their #2 corner all day.

....but hold on.  Our #2 WR was in the CFL last year and that team is familiar with Beasley.  

 

 

I know Josh has to hold on to the ball.  But I saw the QB run coming from my chair and I was thinking "too predictable."

Edited October 27, 2019 by Big Blitz

[Bangarang]

One of my biggest issues with Daboll is his lack of a plan for Singletary. Hes capable of making guys miss yet Daboll can’t scheme up screen passes to Singletary to save his life. I’m often surprised when I even see him in the game. Why go after a RB in the 3rd round and literally have no plan for him.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Bangarang

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

Tough to do when you only get 9 carries the entire game.  We ran the ball a whole 12 times today in crap weather with our RB's.

 

 

 

Against a team that’s laughably bad against the pass and pretty good against the run. Also we had more than 12 called runs. The called QB runs are a part of the run game too even if you don’t like taking advantage of one of the QB’s biggest strengths. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by DCOrange

[Buffalo Boy]

58 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Tough to do when you only get 9 carries the entire game.  We ran the ball a whole 12 times today in crap weather with our RB's.

 

 

 

Thank You!!!

A young QBs best friends are his running game and TEs. There seems to be NO decision to emphasize either. 
IF you are going to throw this much how about shorter digs and outs that a strong straight line thrower has a higher percentage of hitting.

[MAJBobby]

How about featuring the More Explosive and Dynamic Back early. Waiting until the 3rd QTR is unacceptable. 
 

Gore has a roll and it shouldn’t be the feature back. 

[DCOrange]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Thank You!!!

A young QBs best friends are his running game and TEs. There seems to be NO decision to emphasize either. 
IF you are going to throw this much how about shorter digs and outs that a strong straight line thrower has a higher percentage of hitting.

Knox has been emphasized plenty; maybe more than he should be. Running game might be a deserved complaint but I’m also not sad that we’re among the leaders in % of offense plays that are called passes. That’s where the league is moving and that’s where we should want to be IMO especially considering our emphasis on short easy completions. Allen’s just making too many mistakes still/the offensive isn’t very talented. 

[SJDK]

We need to run more and run with Singletary. I know we all like gore and he’s not even bad but Singletary is better. Singletary is going to be Josh Allen’s security blanket and we should start consistently using him. Gore needs to be our backup, he’s got stuff in the tank for sure but I think we have a better option. Someone else said it already but on a windy day with effective blitzes and a defense that is struggling, running the ball is the only solution. We just kept giving them the ball back.

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Not sure why we don’t run the ball more with our RB’s, but it’s hard to gameplan around an inaccurate, turnover prone QB, who can’t hit a deep ball.  

Cause or O coordinator would rather have his young QB run the ball.  In this game Gore had 9 carries, Allen 8.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Azucho98

[vincec]

1 hour ago, wvbillsfan said:

We have an identity. We throw the ball short to intermediate. Sprinkle in the run so it doesn’t look like it’s a madden game with all passes. 
 

Im personally not a fan of our OC. But it’s clear we win or lose with Josh Allen. We aren’t trying to hide him at all. 

I agree. This is a passing offense. It's probably not ideal with such a young QB and motley team, but I think the hope is that it will mean faster development than a more conservative concept.

[Buffalo Boy]

31 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Knox has been emphasized plenty;

12 of 23 targets in 7 games

3.3 targets a game with 1.7 completed

I wouldn’t call that “ plenty” unless you mean his  50 % percentage means he shouldn’t see any more targets?

There was a season where Metzelaars led the team on receptions. THAT is emphasizing Plenty.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Buffalo Boy

[Prickly Pete]

Singletary should be getting more touches than Gore.

 

Singletary could provide a massive boost to this offense in the second half of the season. I have no idea why they aren't using him more.

[vincec]

Just now, 32ABBA said:

Singletary should be getting more touches than Gore.

 

Singletary could provide a massive boost to this offense in the second half of the season. I have no idea why they aren't using him more.

I don't agree. Gore has been very good and Singletary doesn't look like he can run in between the tackles well at all.

[Prickly Pete]

5 minutes ago, vincec said:

I don't agree. Gore has been very good and Singletary doesn't look like he can run in between the tackles well at all.

 

 

It's okay that you are wrong.

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

One of my biggest issues with Daboll is his lack of a plan for Singletary. Hes capable of making guys miss yet Daboll can’t scheme up screen passes to Singletary to save his life. I’m often surprised when I even see him in the game. Why go after a RB in the 3rd round and literally have no plan for him.

I didn’t watch the game and now I think I probably won’t, but did Singletary really only get three runs all game? Daboll needs to be out on notice, clean this offense up or be replaced. 

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

This... is an accurate statement.

 

There were a host of flaws today and last week against the Dolphins. The Bills have had a soft schedule and a fast start with no apologies for either, but have yet to prove they can hang with teams that have better records and coaching.

 

This team is not there yet, and has been exposed the last two weeks. Is what it is, but I think how McD handles these next few weeks will say a lot about where this organization truly is in regards to their journey to try to become a playoff-caliber team.

 

They may be a few pieces short, but I have always felt that a lot comes down to game planning and schemes that give the personnel you have on your roster the best chance of winning.

 

 

 Will we showed today that we can't hang with the good teams. This team has some serious flaws. As soft middle on defense little pass rush, and and offense that can't get out of its own way,  can't stop committing stupid penalties and can't stop turning the ball over.

[Helpmenow]

The offense seems like they hardly get in a rhythm. I don’t understand their passing game.

[Xwnyer]

We have an identity???? The OC is a spastic case 

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

I didn’t watch the game and now I think I probably won’t, but did Singletary really only get three runs all game? Daboll needs to be out on notice, clean this offense up or be replaced. 

I think he only touched the ball once in the first half.

[Meatloaf63]

Just now, Bangarang said:

I think he only touched the ball once in the first half.

Do think that is smart or acceptable? I find it mind boggling...

[Green Lightning]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

12 of 23 targets in 7 games

3.3 targets a game with 1.7 completed

I wouldn’t call that “ plenty” unless you mean his  50 % percentage means he shouldn’t see any more targets?

There was a season where Metzelaars led the team on receptions. THAT is emphasizing Plenty.

Maybe if he'd not drop passes ay key times he'd get more targets.

[DCOrange]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

12 of 23 targets in 7 games

3.3 targets a game with 1.7 completed

I wouldn’t call that “ plenty” unless you mean his  50 % percentage means he shouldn’t see any more targets?

There was a season where Metzelaars led the team on receptions. THAT is emphasizing Plenty.

He’s 3rd in targets in an offense that calls passing plays more than almost anyone in the NFL despite not being dependable to catch the ball. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by DCOrange

[SirAndrew]

Daboll has failed at every stop as an OC. I never had any reason to believe he was the guy I wanted here. He’s done little to prove otherwise. I just hope they move on from him sooner rather than later. None of us want to see Allen’s development slowed by an inept OC. 

[MassHog]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Daboll has consistently had the wrong personnel in for plays since he has arrived. If this season goes bad I think we will see how Josh really feels about Daboll. I think Josh can’t stand Daboll. I know I can’t.

Like constantly lining Dimarco up on the outside? I will never understand that

[DCOrange]

This and the fact that Gore is trusted more to run North-South is why he plays more than Singletary. 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

QB 7th overall, 2 OTs and a WR taken at the top of the 2nd round.

 

McD is a defensive HC and he hasn’t had good OCs leading his offense. 

 

Let's look at those decisions without talking their biggest decision in the QB.

 

Those 2 OT's?  Dawkins is average.  Ford does not have the physical ability to play OT in this league.  The WR?  He was traded for a 2021 5th round pick not long ago.

 

McD a defensive coach....sure.  I doubt ownership lowered their expectations on offense because of that.  And those OC's?  Who hired them?  

 

The decisions on offense under this regime have been very low quality so far, yet in the offensive driven league they've found the draft capital to use 3 first round picks on defense.  

 

Today was another example of how trying to build an outstanding defense before the offense is a recipe for disaster in the 2019 NFL.  

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Let's look at those decisions without talking their biggest decision in the QB.

 

Those 2 OT's?  Dawkins is average.  Ford does not have the physical ability to play OT in this league.  The WR?  He was traded for a 2021 5th round pick not long ago.

 

McD a defensive coach....sure.  I doubt ownership lowered their expectations on offense because of that.  And those OC's?  Who hired them?  

 

The decisions on offense under this regime have been very low quality so far, yet in the offensive driven league they've found the draft capital to use 3 first round picks on defense.  

 

Today was another example of how trying to build an outstanding defense before the offense is a recipe for disaster in the 2019 NFL.  

The outcome may not be ideal but to say they’ve done nothing to address the offensive side of the ball is flat out wrong.

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

I'm sorry but Dabol has to be replaced. It won't happen this year (too late) but it has to happen in the off season before we ruin another QB prospect. 

 

I really disagree here. We've gone down that road so many times & it never once miraculously made our struggling QB's any better, especially not our young QB's. 

Josh already struggles to do a lot of things a good pro QB needs to be able to do, but asking him to start over & learn a new offense would probably add significant time to his development. 

Though today you could point to a number of questionable calls, most of the time I see posters complaining about play selection it's not actually the fault of the coordinator, it's the execution of the players on the field. 

Last week for example, he called the perfect play against the formation the Dolphins had lined up with, leading to Brown WIDE open with his man beaten & only the endzone in front of him. Allen sailed the ball 10 yards past him, and posters hopped on here to scream about perceived bad play calling...

Then you have more routine examples the first 6 games where WR's were open at various points throughout all games, but Allen either never saw them, or was afraid to pull the trigger and took off running, held on too long & got sacked, or stared down his first target without going through his reads & tried to force it to them despite great coverage. 

Again, not the playcalling, just the execution. And like I used to try & explain during the Tyrod era, when your players (and especially the QB) show they can't execute, playcalling options become much more vanilla & limited. Your coordinator might have dozens of potential plays for any particular scenario, but they know the chances of THIS offense & THIS QB delivering results has proven unlikely, therefore you have to go with a simpler call.

When you know your QB has accuracy issues, is extremely risk adverse (like Tyrod), can't consistently throw accurately beyond 15-20 yards (Allen), doesn't see the field, doesn't allow the play to develop, gets happy feet in the pocket & wants to run, makes poor decisions like chunking the ball into the mid of the field off their back foot instead of throwing it away, etc. your forced to really narrow your play calling options.

And in the Bills case, they probably look at what plays Josh has had the most success with in the past, then limit the calls to similar plays....plays opposing defenses are more & more ready for after the tape on Josh grows. Wrinkles are thrown in, and variations are called, but our QB at this point has shown he can only handle so much. 

We could start it all over & hope to land one of those genius coordinators that can turn it around in 1 year out of nowhere, but those guys are few & far between. 

[DuckyBoys]

I dont about guys running open all over the place  Only guy who gets any separation is John Brown and he even struggled some today  Its time for Daboll to earn his pay check  Any good coordinator can at least come up with a few plays in critical moments to get guys open for the qb right away.  Were back to Allen holding the ball under duress to try and fit in a tough completion for a 5 yard gain.  If the best he can come up with is a qb sweep to pick up 2 yards were in deep trouble. 

 

I'm not saying Allen was great but other guys need to step and play better or contribute something positive.  O line continues to struggle with way too many pre snap issues.  Lee Smith seems to be good for at least two bone headed penalties per game.  I hope Kroft gets going, Knox cant catch anything.  How many screens did they not run properly today? 

 

Daboll needs to stop trying to outsmart everyone  Last week we needed to pound it right at Miami and he stops running the ball even though its succesful  This week we needed to attack the secondary and we start off in Dick Jauron mode than totally abandon the run  Next week Redskins have bad run defense so we probably open up with 12 straight passes

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

Singletary should be getting more touches than Gore.

 

Singletary could provide a massive boost to this offense in the second half of the season. I have no idea why they aren't using him more.

Is it because he had a non-contact injury before he had less than 50 carries in a season? 

15 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

I dont about guys running open all over the place  Only guy who gets any separation is John Brown and he even struggled some today  Its time for Daboll to earn his pay check  Any good coordinator can at least come up with a few plays in critical moments to get guys open for the qb right away.  Were back to Allen holding the ball under duress to try and fit in a tough completion for a 5 yard gain.  If the best he can come up with is a qb sweep to pick up 2 yards were in deep trouble. 

 

I'm not saying Allen was great but other guys need to step and play better or contribute something positive.  O line continues to struggle with way too many pre snap issues.  Lee Smith seems to be good for at least two bone headed penalties per game.  I hope Kroft gets going, Knox cant catch anything.  How many screens did they not run properly today? 

 

Daboll needs to stop trying to outsmart everyone  Last week we needed to pound it right at Miami and he stops running the ball even though its succesful  This week we needed to attack the secondary and we start off in Dick Jauron mode than totally abandon the run  Next week Redskins have bad run defense so we probably open up with 12 straight passes

Agree with everything in the bolded part. 
 

Daboll is terrible or Allen is terrible, or they are terrible together.  Not one element of the offense has seemed to improve as the season as gone on. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, MassHog said:

Like constantly lining Dimarco up on the outside? I will never understand that

Or having him as the wheel route option? 

Or having Beasley run deep outs for a couple of games.

Daboll just over thinks things. If he was a good Offensive mind he would of been a HC by now. 

McDermott needs to find a young innovative guy who is calming and positive for Allen.

Daboll seems like a hot head and negative.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

The outcome may not be ideal but to say they’ve done nothing to address the offensive side of the ball is flat out wrong.

 

Done something and then done something effective are completely different standards.  Anyone can do something, but this is the NFL and expectations surpass that low threshold.  

 

 

[DuckyBoys]

In no particular order its Daboll, Allen's ball security issues, untimely dumb penalties and lack of talent around the qb. John Brown a 3rd round pick, Beasley undrafted FA, Duke undrafted FA, Singeltary 3rd round, Knox 3rd round, Gore 3rd round eons ago. How do we expect a explosive offense from this group?

[billsfan89]

The offense should be ground and pound with Allen managing the game and taking his shots here or there. But the team doesn't appear to stick with the run often enough. I don't think Daboll is doing a bad job but he is lacking in certain areas.

3 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

In no particular order its Daboll, Allen's ball security issues, untimely dumb penalties and lack of talent around the qb. John Brown a 3rd round pick, Beasley undrafted FA, Duke undrafted FA, Singeltary 3rd round, Knox 3rd round, Gore 3rd round eons ago. How do we expect a explosive offense from this group?

 

It doesn't matter where you draft a player. Was Antonio Brown less good because he was a 6th round pick? John Brown is producing like a legit WR2, Beasley is an effective slot WR but the offense lacks a WR1 to help these complementary pieces come together. 

[frostbitmic]

4 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

In no particular order its Daboll, Allen's ball security issues, untimely dumb penalties and lack of talent around the qb. John Brown a 3rd round pick, Beasley undrafted FA, Duke undrafted FA, Singeltary 3rd round, Knox 3rd round, Gore 3rd round eons ago. How do we expect a explosive offense from this group?

By keeping Lee Smith in the locker room where he won't get flagged two or three times per game.

[BananaB]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

How about featuring the More Explosive and Dynamic Back early. Waiting until the 3rd QTR is unacceptable. 
 

Gore has a roll and it shouldn’t be the feature back. 

Seems they give up on Gore at the start of the second half almost every game. 

[DuckyBoys]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The offense should be ground and pound with Allen managing the game and taking his shots here or there. But the team doesn't appear to stick with the run often enough. I don't think Daboll is doing a bad job but he is lacking in certain areas.

 

It doesn't matter where you draft a player. Was Antonio Brown less good because he was a 6th round pick? John Brown is producing like a legit WR2, Beasley is an effective slot WR but the offense lacks a WR1 to help these complementary pieces come together. 

the point is none of these guys are a true #1  None of them are going to be able to physically win almost any given week  Bills dont invest in offensive skill position players  There are no great options in FA and watch we'll use the 1st round pick on defense

[Prickly Pete]

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Is it because he had a non-contact injury before he had less than 50 carries in a season? 

 

 

I don't think it is. He was barely used before the injury too.

 

If he is an injury waiting to happen, then there is no hope for him, and no amount of coddling will help, so what's the point in not giving him touches?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by 32ABBA

[DuckyBoys]

15 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

By keeping Lee Smith in the locker room where he won't get flagged two or three times per game.

He's good for minumum one false start per game  Again I'm going on the record that I hate Allen's hard count  Only guys jumping are our TE's and O line

[SwampD]

We had an identity when Shady was on the team.

[familykwi]

As I watch the GB/KC game, I think I understand the Bills' problem.  Can't have an identity until you have the skill to build around.  Although we have upgraded some on offense, the upgrades are marginal and we have no game breaking type talents at any offensive position. 

 

The line is better, but not more than average. 

I love Brown, but the rest of the receivers still fail to separate regularly.  Same with the TEs.  I'd also like to see Brown stay on his feet more when catching the ball.  I think he jumps too much to use his body to make catches.  If he had extended back to the ball that Dalby broke up, we may score on that drive and things would have gotten way more interesting.

The running game has moments, but again, does not have a runner who can break a game open.

 

It's unreasonable to expect great success without great talents on the field.  We've improved and have beaten every team we were supposed to, plus we beat the Titans on the road.  I think we're still a ways from beating teams in the upper echelon.