Gmfb - Pats best D ever

[dave mcbride]

7 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Or at least in the conversation.  My thoughts are that they are great but talk to me after they play houston dallas and KC in the next 5 weeks.  

 

Thoughts?  Where do they rank and will the end up? 

 

[Plano]

11 minutes ago, Bmbchiefs66 said:

They will hold cleveland and baltimore to a combined 14 points.

They are gonna destroy every one of those teams you named. 

Houston wont score more than 10 .. Hopkins has been insignifigant vs new england. Fuller going out kills them

Dallas will be lucky to score 10

Kc is the only legitimate team that had a chance for 14. But thats it

You can spin it anyway you want. But lmk in the past like 2016 when everyone said they hadnt played anyone yet why they couldnt replicate this success. How come darnold almost beat the bills? But couldnt even move the ball lasst night. Yet the bills supposedly have a top defense (now 12th by dvoa)

Lmk another defense that has allowed 27 points over 7 games? 

Why couldnt the bills supposed good defense shut out the dolphins?

 

 

completely unrelated question but are your knees scuffed up? Is your jaw sore?

 

 

[Bmbchiefs66]

6 minutes ago, Plano said:

completely unrelated question but are your knees scuffed up? Is your jaw sore?

 

 

Is that something that turns you on?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

20 minutes ago, Bmbchiefs66 said:

They will hold cleveland and baltimore to a combined 14 points.

They are gonna destroy every one of those teams you named. 

Houston wont score more than 10 .. Hopkins has been insignifigant vs new england. Fuller going out kills them

Dallas will be lucky to score 10

Kc is the only legitimate team that had a chance for 14. But thats it

You can spin it anyway you want. But lmk in the past like 2016 when everyone said they hadnt played anyone yet why they couldnt replicate this success. How come darnold almost beat the bills? But couldnt even move the ball lasst night. Yet the bills supposedly have a top defense (now 12th by dvoa)

Lmk another defense that has allowed 27 points over 7 games? 

Why couldnt the bills supposed good defense shut out the dolphins?

do you have a speech impediment?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

18 hours ago, Bmbchiefs66 said:

It needs to be noted that the billa defense is average at best. The lolphons had them on the ropes, the bum darnold almost beat them. And dalton. Not good at all. Terrible

 

LOL

I guess shutting down Brady isn't going to be talked about?

 

And Dalton?  Dalton didn't play well against us.  He played well against the Seahawks....

 

 

Darnold beat the Cowboys and was the AFC player of the week.  

 

I'm surprised you spelled "Chiefs" correct in your name.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm surprised you spelled "Chiefs" correct in your name.

 

Its supposed to be spelled     Chefs   so ..... 

[oldmanfan]

The '85 Bears, the Ravens of the Lewis/Reed era, and the Steel curtain defenses are the benchmarks.  We'll see how they compare at the end of the season.

 

The '65 Bills too.

[PatsFanNH]

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The D has only given up 27 points (the other 21 on O and Special Teams) they have also scored  23 or 30 points.. so basically they are almost equaling the amount they give up. (I can’t remember if they have 3 or 4 TD this year)

 

they been beating up on bad teams.. hopefully it sustains them now that the schedule gets tougher.

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The '85 Bears, the Ravens of the Lewis/Reed era, and the Steel curtain defenses are the benchmarks.  We'll see how they compare at the end of the season.

 

The '65 Bills too.

Ravens ONLY 2000 season they won that SB. I wouldn’t even compare any D to any other before then because of how much the rules have changed to favor the O.  It just wouldn’t be fair comparison IMO.

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

The D has only given up 27 points (the other 21 on O and Special Teams) they have also scored  23 or 30 points.. so basically they are almost equaling the amount they give up. (I can’t remember if they have 3 or 4 TD this year)

 

they been beating up on bad teams.. hopefully it sustains them now that the schedule gets tougher.

Ravens ONLY 2000 season they won that SB. I wouldn’t even compare any D to any other before then because of how much the rules have changed to favor the O.  It just wouldn’t be fair comparison IMO.

Good point

[Chicken Boo]

Yeah, that's a real murderer's row they've faced thus far.

 

The Ravens 2000 defense had to deal with an offense so pathetic they didn't score an TD for 5 straight weeks.

 

Read that again!

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

The D has only given up 27 points (the other 21 on O and Special Teams) they have also scored  23 or 30 points.. so basically they are almost equaling the amount they give up. (I can’t remember if they have 3 or 4 TD this year)

 

they been beating up on bad teams.. hopefully it sustains them now that the schedule gets tougher.

Ravens ONLY 2000 season they won that SB. I wouldn’t even compare any D to any other before then because of how much the rules have changed to favor the O.  It just wouldn’t be fair comparison IMO.

That is insane. In fairness though we would need to break out those other 2 teams as well to see what the d scored and how many points were allowed by the offense or ST. While this stat MOSTLY is a representation of defense it does say “Patriots, Bucs, Ravens” and not “Patriots D, Bucs D, Ravens D.” It is insane nonetheless.

 

I’m of the belief that this Pats D (at this point) absolutely has to be considered with the “all-time” greats. Anyone denying that is just because they hate the Pats. I despise them. I would cheer for Russia against them. However, you cannot be rational and deny their dominance.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

Yeah, that's a real murderer's row they've faced thus far.

 

The Ravens 2000 defense had to deal with an offense so pathetic they didn't score an TD for 5 straight weeks.

 

Read that again!

IMO they are not as good as that D. That D HAD to carry the team as their O was mediocre at best.. I see the Bills D being similar in the fact (so far) they have had to cover for an O that has turned the ball over WAY to much.  4 turnovers against the Jets, 2 against Cincy, 4 against NE. Mind you much better last two weeks with just , but with that D stop turning the ball over and you will win a lot easier.

[Gugny]

• Steelers
• Dolphins
• Jets
• Bills
• Redskins
• Giants
• Jets

 

I'm not gonna sit here and say NE's defense isn't great.  It certainly seems to be.

 

But let's just take a look at those opponents and the QBs of those opponents.

 

How could any decent defense NOT look like the greatest of all time with a schedule like that?  I know teams can only play their schedules ... but common man.

[PatsFanNH]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

• Steelers
• Dolphins
• Jets
• Bills
• Redskins
• Giants
• Jets

 

I'm not gonna sit here and say NE's defense isn't great.  It certainly seems to be.

 

But let's just take a look at those opponents and the QBs of those opponents.

 

How could any decent defense NOT look like the greatest of all time with a schedule like that?  I know teams can only play their schedules ... but common man.

 You play who is on your schedule. That said those team average almost 15 points a game, the Pats D around 6.5.  Holding your opponent to half their average is impressive no matter who it is.  Also you know first hand records don’t tell the whole story, if they did this place be crying how bad the Bills D is because they allowed 16 points to the Jets, 17 to Cincy, and 21 to Miami teams with all of one win!  The fact is your D is damn good too and also been doing it against mostly garbage can QBs with the only loss being against the one good one. (Not their fault like the Jets game the O was awful and if it wasn’t for your D that score is something like 24 or 30- 0 heading into the third.)

[Gugny]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

 You play who is on your schedule. That said those team average almost 15 points a game, the Pats D around 6.5.  Holding your opponent to half their average is impressive no matter who it is.  Also you know first hand records don’t tell the whole story, if they did this place be crying how bad the Bills D is because they allowed 16 points to the Jets, 17 to Cincy, and 21 to Miami teams with all of one win!  The fact is your D is damn good too and also been doing it against mostly garbage can QBs with the only loss being against the one good one. (Not their fault like the Jets game the O was awful and if it wasn’t for your D that score is something like 24 or 30- 0 heading into the third.)

 

I went out of my way to prevent anyone taking the time to write every ounce of what you just wrote.  Apparently, I didn't go far enough.

 

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I went out of my way to prevent anyone taking the time to write every ounce of what you just wrote.  Apparently, I didn't go far enough.

 

Lol I literally went out of my way to compliment the Bills D... which is the only reason the Bills are 5-1.  

[timekills17]

You can't deny that a good offense playing complimentary football helps significantly.

Forces opposition into a more one-dimensional attack, provides favorable field position (no "gimme" FGs or one-shot TDs), and no turnover based points.

 

However...

You also can't deny that teams down by 2+ TDs are more likely to air it out and gain yards if not points.

So the minimal yards allowed is potentially even more impressive.

 

Given the rules changes over the years favoring offense, the idea that the Pats' defense is even comparable, and in many ways outperforming the "other" all time great defenses pushes them squarely into the discussion. Denigrate their opposition all you want. I don't recall the amazing offenses the '85 Bears had to contend with every week either.

Edited October 23, 2019 by timekills17

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

they could have gone 7-0 in the middle of the season and done this on defense, but instead they happened to start off with a bunch of cupcake games (minus the Bills)

 

right now their numbers look great, but we'll see what happens... 

[Kirby Jackson]

As historically great as the Pats D is to this point opposing QBs are still doing better against them than Peterman did against anyone (courtesy of Bill Barnwell) ??:

 

Player A: 52.3% completion percentage, 4.2 yards per attempt, 9.2% INT rate

Player B: 50.8% completion percentage, 5.0 yards per attempt, 7.8% INT rate

Player A is quarterback Nathan Peterman, who was badly overmatched in his four starts with the Bills from 2017 to '18. The fifth-round pick posted a passer rating of 32.5 on 130 pass attempts; when you adjust for era using Pro Football Reference's index statistics, Peterman is the second-worst quarterback in the history of football with 100 or more pass attempts.
 

Player B isn't really one player; it's the collected line of all the quarterbacks who have faced the New England Patriots' defense this season. Those quarterbacks have combined to post a passer rating of 35.6, just 3.1 points better than Peterman's mark. I get that the Patriots haven't played a tough slate of opposing quarterbacks, but they've still gone up against veterans such as Ben Roethlisberger and Colt McCoy and highly touted young players such as Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones. Bill Belichick's defense has reduced them to collectively performing about as poorly as the worst quarterback of the past 80 years.

[LB3]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

As historically great as the Pats D is to this point opposing QBs are still doing better against them than Peterman did against anyone (courtesy of Bill Barnwell) ??

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said:

I just saw it and had to add it to this. They’ve given up 1 TD and have 18 INTs. That’s better than NP

[Talley56]

If this Pats D is the best ever then the Ravens' offense must be more dangerous than I thought.

[Happy]

This Pats D is outrageously overrated.  They're not who we thought they were.  The early 2000s Patriots D was better than this year's D; maybe not statistically, but in actual game day performance.

[WideNine]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:42 AM, TheProcess said:

Agreed. Give it up to their corners for holding up just long enough for those zero blitzes and disguises to get home. Let’s be honest, they aren’t the only team to use a zero blitz, but as usual they do it better than everyone else. How many more games before teams adjust to it?
 

Playing the cheats is becoming more like what playing in a playoff game at yankee stadium used to be. You lose it before you ever step foot on the field because the moment is too big and they are in your head. 

 

That mental edge is certainly part of it. They go in expecting their game plan to win, opposing teams go in hoping to not get embarrassed. Advantage NE.

 

I do think Allen went into our game with them shakey, but was pulling himself together after the half. Will never know if he could have redeemed himself if he had not gotten that helmet to helmet hit. Allen was hurting them with his legs and arm up to that point.

[GreggTX]

As the announcers just pointed out, this was the first really good offense the Pats have faced and they put up 37 points.

[Rocket94]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:49 AM, Yav said:

Here's the thing, NE hasn't really played anyone of notice outside of Buffalo and granite Buffalo hasn't played anyone of notice outside of NE. 

 

The stats from that game are as follows: 

 

New England: total yards 224
Brady: 18 of 39 for 150 yards and an INT

Michel: 17 carries for 63 yards

 

Buffalo: total yards 375

Allen: 13 of 28 for 153 yards and 3 INTs

Gore: 17 carries for 109 yards

 

After the first quarter NE was held score less until a field goal in the 3rd where as Buffalo scored 3 points in the second and a TD in the third. They also left points on the board with a missed FG and going for it on 4th down when a FG should have been kicked. 

 

Now I ask you what is more impressive? 

The Bills holding NE to 16 points and 224 total yards and giving Brady one of the worse games in recent memory or Buffalo putting 375 yards up on that NE D?

Trick question because both are impressive and both causes one to look at how well Buffalo played in that game.

They are both equally impressive!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:44 AM, SlimShady'sGhost said:

So.... How many teams with a winning record has the Pats beaten??   1 right? 

the answer is still  ONE!!!! 

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaa

 

Tommy boy lookes so , so ... like a loser mussing with his hair looking down at whatever he had in his hands ... 

 

[Troll Toll]

I mean it was hilarious that for the last 8 weeks they’ve been telling us that the Bills haven’t beat anybody good, but that the Pats (with an arguably easier schedule) had the greatest defense of all time. No player on that Pats defense scares me, in fact most of them look out of shape. Can’t wait to see the Mahomes revenge game.

[TheFunPolice]

27 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

the answer is still  ONE!!!! 

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaa

 

Tommy boy lookes so , so ... like a loser mussing with his hair looking down at whatever he had in his hands ... 

 

Pats message board kept referencing some sort of hand)arm/wrist injury

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Pats message board kept referencing some sort of hand)arm/wrist injury

 

 

How is that any different than his  injury report every week?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

which one was right???  
 

 

Mike Rob  (Bills fan) that is who!!!   

 

[TheFunPolice]

Before it was 3rd string QBs tossing wobbly ducks right to Gilmore every week

 

Everyone should have seen this coming 

[billsfan89]

The Pats had a very good defense last season. It isn't a shock that their defense which wasn't super old and is coached by Billy B returned to form the next season. However this hype about them being a generationally "great" defense similar to the 2000 Raves, 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks or something of that ilk is nothing more than hype. Anyone could read their schedule and see they played some of the worst QB's and overall offenses in the league. That's no insult to the Bills offense but I would classify them as slightly below average with a QB who is young and growing and that was the best offense they played up until they ran into the Ravens.  

 

The Pats defense is going to regress to a standard very good defense as they play better offenses. That's not to say that their defense can't carry them to a Super Bowl but it isn't a all time great defense like people were hyping. I think this reflects the sports news media's need for consistent 24/7 content as they tend to be very week to week reactionary to every little thing as they have airtime to fill. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by billsfan89

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

running up the score like the Pats do  forces more teams into a passing situation 

 

that situation typically forces more turnovers and other mistakes.  

 

which may make a D look better than it is .

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

This Pats D is outrageously overrated.  They're not who we thought they were.  The early 2000s Patriots D was better than this year's D; maybe not statistically, but in actual game day performance.

 

I don't know about "outrageously overrated" but I will say I think their coronation as "all time historic great D" has been premature.

 

I looked it up, and prior to last night, the Pats opponents own a collective W-L record of 15-43.  Now that's better than the W-L record of the teams our Bills have defeated which is 8-38 (overall record 20-42) but they aren't exactly taking the Hard Road what with facing the Dolphins, Jets x 2, SKins, Giants, and Browns.  The Bills gave them the best fight of the season before last night, and we didn't exactly pose a stellar offensive challenge with 4 INTs and 2 fumbles (0 lost).

 

The next 4 weeks against the Eagles, Cowboys, Texans, and Chiefs will tell us a lot about who they really are.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Let's please please please see a lot more of these types of Hoodie post-game pressers this year..."we just didn't do anything well enough tonight..."

 

[Boatdrinks]

GMFB are noted Pats worshippers, and it comes through in most every show. Put on GMFB today wanting to see the aftermath of Pats loss to Ravens, only to find precious little talk of them this AM. It was almost like they were disappointed NE lost. Don’t they realize most fans hate that team and wanted to bask in the glory of the Ravens win this morning ? Total letdown.