How to beat the Patriots??? RUN

[Dablitzkrieg]

The Bills are already built to beat them.  Limit TO's and the Bills can beat them.  Same game plan as a few weeks ago

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, row_33 said:

So Jordan was just a.creation of reffing?

 

what is wrong with you...

 

 

Lol not even close to what I was saying sir

[frostbitmic]

You need to play as dirty as they do. If they intentionally take out your QB you take out theirs.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

Folks who don't appreciate the Pats greatness (a team I of course, despise) over the past 1.5 decades and instead attribute it to a "fix" are on par with flat Earthers. 

[Plano]

Personally from what I have seen this season, you want Brady ON the field. His arm looks like it's weakened significantly, he doesn't look nearly as sharp. Their offense is absolutely NOTHING..NOTHING to be feared.

 

Their defense on the other hand looks outstanding.

 

You need to headshot Edelman next time and we win the game easily. Brady is a shell of what he used to be.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Have to run, passing is futile at this point against them.

They're talking about it right now on the post game, the Pats defense is playing at historically great levels and is on pace to go down as the top defense of ALL TIME.

Our offense has no chance passing against them, so better get that run game going...It's our only shot.

 

I really disagree with this. 

First just on evidence: having watched the all-22, we had open guys.  The Bills were in a hole a lot with penalties on the OL, and Josh was pressing and going for the deep shot to get it all back at once instead of being satisfied to take 5-10 yd chunks. 

 

Like any team - the need with the Pats is to force them to be reactive and prevent them from keying on one aspect of the game.  The Pats can play run D, they just weren't last night because with Barkley out, the Giants didn't have much of a rushing attack.

 

What does have to be remembered is, *we will be playing the refs as well*.  They will call holds on our OL and OPI and the same or more blatant will go un-called on the Pats OL and DB.  Daboll's scheming guys open is important, and Duke's ability to out-muscle and box out defenders may also be key.

 

Second, "historically great levels" against the dregs of Big Ben Roethlisberger, Fitz on a bad day and the Firesale Fish, Luke Falk in his 2nd NFL start, Colt freakin' McCoy for the Redskins and little Danny Jones behind a sieve and with who, exactly, at WR?
 

We hung up 280 yds passing on them (240 net), despite throwing 4 picks, taking 5 sacks,  and our QB having a Very Bad Day.  For reference on how bad the rest of the QB play the Pats have faced really is, that rather pitiful performance from the Bills is 25%  of the passing yards they've given up in 6 games.  If the Pats gave up similar every week, they'd be 31st in the league, not "historically great". 

 

The problem is, due to implosion of half the AFCE teams the Pats play 2x, the implosion of the Stillers, and the general ineptness of the Redskins, the Pats are playing a very weak first half schedule.  Let me know how "historically great levels" looks in week 15.  I'm not trying to say the Pats D isn't legit - it is - but I'll hold off on the laurel wreath for "historically great".

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Folks who don't appreciate the Pats greatness (a team I of course, despise) over the past 1.5 decades and instead attribute it to a "fix" are on par with flat Earthers. 

 

Well, I disagree with this too.  Here's the thing: the Pats*** are a legit great team.  But they also have a legit and fairly well documented history of pushing the boundries of the rule book and flat-out cheating.  The helmet radio thing, the opposing team radios in Foxboro, Spygate - too much smoke for there not to be fire.   The Pats*** shouldn't have to cheat - it pains me to say this, but they really are that good - but the fact is, they have, over and over again.  Given that, when one's eyeballs see that an apparently struggling Pats team gets bailed out by a few key penalties while what appear to be fairly egregious fouls against the other team go un-called - one wonders, and the wonderment is really not at all "on a par with" guys who manage to dismiss amazing amounts of scientific evidence to the contrary. 

 

It seems to me that Belicheck's motto is "whatever it takes to win".  If they can win just playing good hard football, fine.  If the other team is hanging tough or even at risk of a comeback, well..."whatever it takes".

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 hours ago, row_33 said:

So Jordan was just a.creation of reffing?

 

what is wrong with you...

why is it you're always defending the evil empire or their players? a so called bills fan always on his knees for that team.

 

[Don Otreply]

How to beat the patriots??

 

with an axe handle of course....

 

Go Bills!!!

[IDBillzFan]

8 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

They should not have escaped us and im sure counted their blessings to escape Buffalo with a win. 

 

Yesterday on a Sirius segment between Miller/Kirwan and Phil Simms , Kirwan asked Simms about Allen because, to paraphrase Kirwan, "I was playing the wait and see game with him, but I'm increasingly convinced he's the real deal." Near the end, Kirwan commented that when the NE* game was over you could tell Brady* and Bellicheck* were visibly relieved to have escaped with a W because they knew they were lucky to get it and "they know the Bills are for real in the division now."

 

 

 

 

[GG]

1 minute ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Yesterday on a Sirius segment between Miller/Kirwan and Phil Simms , Kirwan asked Simms about Allen because, to paraphrase Kirwan, "I was playing the wait and see game with him, but I'm increasingly convinced he's the real deal." Near the end, Kirwan commented that when the NE* game was over you could tell Brady* and Bellicheck* were visibly relieved to have escaped with a W because they knew they were lucky to get it and "they know the Bills are for real in the division now."

 

 

 

 

 

Duke was activated 1 week too late.  Doubtful that he lets a high pass sail through his hands on 4th down.

[IDBillzFan]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Duke was activated 1 week too late.  Doubtful that he lets a high pass sail through his hands on 4th down.

 

Yep. I'd have liked to have seen Duke on the other end of Brown's pass instead of Yeldon.

 

Woulda/coulda, I know, but I suspect the decision to finally bring him up will prove to be a very smart one, albeit a little late.

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Did you watch Jordan's games? That's a bad analogy. Maybe LeBron treatment is closer.

Fair enough

[Mikey152]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I disagree with this too.  Here's the thing: the Pats*** are a legit great team.  But they also have a legit and fairly well documented history of pushing the boundries of the rule book and flat-out cheating.  The helmet radio thing, the opposing team radios in Foxboro, Spygate - too much smoke for there not to be fire.   The Pats*** shouldn't have to cheat - it pains me to say this, but they really are that good - but the fact is, they have, over and over again.  Given that, when one's eyeballs see that an apparently struggling Pats team gets bailed out by a few key penalties while what appear to be fairly egregious fouls against the other team go un-called - one wonders, and the wonderment is really not at all "on a par with" guys who manage to dismiss amazing amounts of scientific evidence to the contrary. 

 

It seems to me that Belicheck's motto is "whatever it takes to win".  If they can win just playing good hard football, fine.  If the other team is hanging tough or even at risk of a comeback, well..."whatever it takes".

 

The reality is, the biggest way they cheat is rarely  ever even talked about...

 

They cheat with the salary cap.  

 

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, yet continually makes quite a bit less money than that title should afford him.  And it's not all out of the goodness of his heart that he takes less.  The team has found ways to compensate him that don't count against the cap, with the most obvious being hiring his TB12 company.  It's complete bull####.  

 

And beyond the cheating, they are also masters of "gamesmanship" ie pushing the rules as far as they can go without either A) breaking them or b) not getting called out for breaking them...kinda like going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught.  In the NFL where the difference between winning and losing is razor sharp, those little edges become huge.

[RyanC883]

12 hours ago, KD in CA said:

You beat NE the same way teams have always done it — by stopping Brady.

 

If Josh finds the open receivers instead of chucking it into a crowd deep multiple times, the Bills probably win two weeks ago

 

The Pats*** capitalize on other teams mistakes at this point.  The game v. the stinking Giants is much closer w/o turnovers for TD's, and we likely beat them.  

 

Running the ball has its merits in terms of cutting down on mistakes, and the best way to stop Brady is to not let him have the ball.  The OB has a point.  JA cannot hit the long ball right now.  Run it, and use play action to try to open up the long ball.  

 

Plus, Singletary will be back next game! 

 

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

The reality is, the biggest way they cheat is rarely  ever even talked about...

 

They cheat with the salary cap.  

 

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, yet continually makes quite a bit less money than that title should afford him.  And it's not all out of the goodness of his heart that he takes less.  The team has found ways to compensate him that don't count against the cap, with the most obvious being hiring his TB12 company.  It's complete bull####.  

 

And beyond the cheating, they are also masters of "gamesmanship" ie pushing the rules as far as they can go without either A) breaking them or b) not getting called out for breaking them...kinda like going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught.  In the NFL where the difference between winning and losing is razor sharp, those little edges become huge.

 

1000000% correct.   The NFL needs to ban this type of nonsense.  Why other owners let them get away with it is puzzling.  

[Rob's House]

I would use a novel approach. Put Dawson Knox at linebacker, point out Brady, and tell him that guy took his ball. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, row_33 said:

So Jordan was just a.creation of reffing?

what is wrong with you...

 

I don't think that's what he's saying at all.  It's a widespread belief in sports that established stars get "star treatment" from the refs - more benefit of the doubt in the calls.

That's different from saying the stars are "just a creation of reffing" - they had to establish themselves as stars.

 

But once they do, yeah, the belief is widespread that stars get preferential treatment/more benefit of doubt from the refs.  Heck, even some Pats*** fans on this board acknowledge that "stars get star treatment"

[Buffaloaf]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I disagree with this too.  Here's the thing: the Pats*** are a legit great team.  But they also have a legit and fairly well documented history of pushing the boundries of the rule book and flat-out cheating.  The helmet radio thing, the opposing team radios in Foxboro, Spygate - too much smoke for there not to be fire.   The Pats*** shouldn't have to cheat - it pains me to say this, but they really are that good - but the fact is, they have, over and over again.  Given that, when one's eyeballs see that an apparently struggling Pats team gets bailed out by a few key penalties while what appear to be fairly egregious fouls against the other team go un-called - one wonders, and the wonderment is really not at all "on a par with" guys who manage to dismiss amazing amounts of scientific evidence to the contrary. 

 

It seems to me that Belicheck's motto is "whatever it takes to win".  If they can win just playing good hard football, fine.  If the other team is hanging tough or even at risk of a comeback, well..."whatever it takes".

 

Good post.  This has always been my take on the Pats as well.  The team is great in their own right, but they have continually compromised the integrity of the game.  

 

The penalty thing is very hard to argue though I have tried.  I think it was a couple years ago the Pats were one of the most, if not the most, penalized teams in the league.  Yet it seems they get so many timely calls that other teams don't.  The penalty on Tre White (I think it was him) on 4th down in the last game is good example.  The ball was underthrown so the receiver slows down and White runs into him.  Technically PI, but the I don't see the Bills or other teams getting that call on a regular basis.  

[Chuck Wagon]

Splash plays and hitting Brady in the mouth.  It's the same formula it's always been.  Pressure up the middle in Brady's face and being able to gain some chunk yardage.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

You need to play as dirty as they do. If they intentionally take out your QB you take out theirs.

 

There's a couple problems with that.  The first is, Brady never puts himself in harm's way on runs where it's easy to take him out.  He does not, as Lee Smith said about Allen, "run head first into other human beings".   The second is, you have to be really smart about "selling it" or having a lesser player do the deed so it doesn't bitecha.

 

Clay Matthews laid a "roughing" hit on Russ Wilson in the 4Q.  I'm sure it's just an amazing coincidence that Matthews left the game with a broken jaw a few plays later.  It's not even in the stat sheets, no penalty on Seattle.  Just one of those things that happen in a physical game like football.  Accident. 

 

NE does seem to love those QB sneaks with Brady.

[row_33]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think that's what he's saying at all.  It's a widespread belief in sports that established stars get "star treatment" from the refs - more benefit of the doubt in the calls.

That's different from saying the stars are "just a creation of reffing" - they had to establish themselves as stars.

 

But once they do, yeah, the belief is widespread that stars get preferential treatment/more benefit of doubt from the refs.  Heck, even some Pats*** fans on this board acknowledge that "stars get star treatment"

 

okay, whatever

 

attacking Jordan as a creation of ref's hiding the whistle is a ***** ######ed thing to say on a sports board

 

 

[Mikey152]

57 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said:

 

Good post.  This has always been my take on the Pats as well.  The team is great in their own right, but they have continually compromised the integrity of the game.  

 

The penalty thing is very hard to argue though I have tried.  I think it was a couple years ago the Pats were one of the most, if not the most, penalized teams in the league.  Yet it seems they get so many timely calls that other teams don't.  The penalty on Tre White (I think it was him) on 4th down in the last game is good example.  The ball was underthrown so the receiver slows down and White runs into him.  Technically PI, but the I don't see the Bills or other teams getting that call on a regular basis.  

 

They get called for a lot of penalties because they COMMIT a lot of penalties.  It's intentional.  They coach holding on offense and on defense, because they know full well that refs aren't going to call it on every play, and they are willing to take those penalties because overall the benefit outweighs the risk.  What you won't see them do is commit a lot of stupid penalties like false start, off sides, etc...It's all holds, interference, roughing, etc...and it's on purpose. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mikey152

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, row_33 said:

okay, whatever

attacking Jordan as a creation of ref's hiding the whistle is a ***** ######ed thing to say on a sports board

 

you: "so Jordan was just a creation of reffing?"

me: "I don't think that's what he meant.  he's saying that once they're stars, stars get star treatment"

you: "whatever.....attacking Jordan as a creation of refs"

Why bother even responding to a post if you aren't going to read and process the content?  No one is attacking Jordan as a creation of refs.  Jordan may not be a good example, actually, but that's not the point at all.

[Buffaloaf]

1 minute ago, Mikey152 said:

 

They get called for a lot of penalties because they COMMIT a lot of penalties.  It's intentional.  They coach holding on offense and on defense, because they know full well that refs aren't going to call it on every play, and they are willing to take those penalties because overall the benefit outweighs the reward.  What you won't see them do is commit a lot of stupid penalties like false start, off sides, etc...It's all holds, interference, roughing, etc...and it's on purpose. 

 

I agree with this.  If you remember when they played the Colts in the playoffs years ago, they just continually contacted the Colts receivers beyond 5 yards and dared the officials to call it.  It worked.  Seattle's Legion of Boom operated similarly.  I guess the question is do you think that is a good strategy or a bush league move that somewhat compromises the integrity of the game?    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

Duke was activated 1 week too late.  Doubtful that he lets a high pass sail through his hands on 4th down.

 

Or, maybe against the Pats*** and their more confusing defense with Allen more confusled, Duke gets pwned and does not have the encouraging start that he had.  We'll never know, the only thing certain is that Zay's performance in the Pats*** game followed by Duke's good performance in the Titans game, put an end to the Zay Jones experiment.  I was surprised, personally.  McBeane don't play around.

 

4 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said:

I agree with this.  If you remember when they played the Colts in the playoffs years ago, they just continually contacted the Colts receivers beyond 5 yards and dared the officials to call it.  It worked.  Seattle's Legion of Boom operated similarly.  I guess the question is do you think that is a good strategy or a bush league move that somewhat compromises the integrity of the game?    

 

Can I vote both? Up to a point, I think it's a physical game and it's up to the refs to define limits.  But I think the Pats*** take pushing the rules and the boundries too far.

 

[billsfan89]

11 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Have to run, passing is futile at this point against them.

They're talking about it right now on the post game, the Pats defense is playing at historically great levels and is on pace to go down as the top defense of ALL TIME.

Our offense has no chance passing against them, so better get that run game going...It's our only shot.

 

The Pats defense has yet to play a really good offense (I consider our offense to be a mid-level type offense) so I think that "on pace to be" is a bit misleading. They play a brutal 6 game stretch where they play six really good teams and I think their defense will regress to simply being a normal great defense haha. But i think the Pats defense is inflated a lot by not playing against good competition. 

[JoeF]

I am so ***** sick of hearing about the Patriots....it reminds me of this scene from Miracle.  Just ***** beat the ***** in NE at the end of the season and rip the AFC East from their grasp and then kick their ass again in the playoffs.  Put an end to this ***** 20 year show...

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....is there really a simple recipe to beat the Pats?.......how many years now has Brady's grave been dug with shovels ready?......18 consecutive AFC titles?.....11 AFC championships....6 SB's......and you think "running on them" is THE new and simple recipe?.....forgot Brady is 31-3 vs Bflo.......try harder IMO....BB is the master....

[frostbitmic]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a couple problems with that.  The first is, Brady never puts himself in harm's way on runs where it's easy to take him out.  He does not, as Lee Smith said about Allen, "run head first into other human beings".   The second is, you have to be really smart about "selling it" or having a lesser player do the deed so it doesn't bitecha.

 

Clay Matthews laid a "roughing" hit on Russ Wilson in the 4Q.  I'm sure it's just an amazing coincidence that Matthews left the game with a broken jaw a few plays later.  It's not even in the stat sheets, no penalty on Seattle.  Just one of those things that happen in a physical game like football.  Accident. 

 

NE does seem to love those QB sneaks with Brady.

What the Bills basically need is the football version of Rob Ray ... Mess with ours, Ill take yours out kinda guy.

 

The kinda guy that when he comes on the field, the other teams stars catch a breath for a few plays and sit on the sideline.

 

We need an enforcer

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

What the Bills basically need is the football version of Rob Ray ... Mess with ours, Ill take yours out kinda guy.

The kinda guy that when he comes on the field, the other teams stars catch a breath for a few plays and sit on the sideline.

We need an enforcer

 

You're not allowed to have an enforcer on the NFL.  That doesn't mean stuff doesn't happen - but it's got to be far more subtle than the above.

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're not allowed to have an enforcer on the NFL.  That doesn't mean stuff doesn't happen - but it's got to be far more subtle than the above.

Subtle is in the eyes of the beholder ?

 

 

[Happy]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

NE does seem to love those QB sneaks with Brady.

 

Yes they do.  Not sure how to drill Brady on those sneaks, or even how to stop them (QB sneak).  The O-Line has such an advantage on QB sneaks.

[Cripple Creek]

21 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

The Bills need to go heavy and run right at them. Use 3 tight ends, Lee Smith, Dawson Knox and hopefully Tyler Kroft. The Backfield is Gore and DiMarco. And only one receiver Smoke. 3 tight ends forces them to adjust their secondary and put a LB on a tightend.  Then run at them all day. It wont have an impact at first but you will slowly wear them down and your defense will keep you in the game. Pound the rock with carries to Singletary. . This should slowly tip the time of possession in the Bills favor and Brady might press to impress the home crowd and commit a turnover. It also takes a lot of pressure off Allen and opens up play action.

 

 

I firmly believe that with a running option outside of Gore we win that game.  Let's hope Singletary comes back strong and stays that way.

[bdutton]

RUN!

[WideNine]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:12 AM, Mikey152 said:

 

The reality is, the biggest way they cheat is rarely  ever even talked about...

 

They cheat with the salary cap.  

 

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, yet continually makes quite a bit less money than that title should afford him.  And it's not all out of the goodness of his heart that he takes less.  The team has found ways to compensate him that don't count against the cap, with the most obvious being hiring his TB12 company.  It's complete bull####.  

 

And beyond the cheating, they are also masters of "gamesmanship" ie pushing the rules as far as they can go without either A) breaking them or b) not getting called out for breaking them...kinda like going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught.  In the NFL where the difference between winning and losing is razor sharp, those little edges become huge.

 

Their run towards greatness is chuck filled with asterisks...from the playoffs against the Raiders when Brady's fumble morphed into an indefensible tuck rule, to spygate, to deflate gate...

 

And the thing that makes me the most irritated with them is if they played just clean with no help and no cheating they are a well-coached team that is tough to beat.

 

The last game felt pretty even flag wise, and I was thinking maybe, just maybe things have changed. Then Brady directly behind his center 4 yards from his own goal line is a second from being planted and he intentionally grounds the football into the turf 5 yards in front of him, inside the Tackle "box" with no receiving option near the ball.

 

Textbook intentional grounding loss of down and I believe the Bills get the ball from the spot of the pass. 

 

That is a go-ahead TD for this Bills squad yet the refs swallowed the whistles....again. The Pats are allowed to punt themselves out of danger.

 

It is not the number of penalties, it is key penalties at key times that are called or ignored that keep NE in the game till they can legitimately put it away. 

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/intentional-grounding/

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by WideNine

[iinii]

The way to beat NE is to punch Brady in the mouth, metaphorically speaking. Easier said than done but teams that beat NE disrupt their timing and get in his face. Being able to pound the rock doesn’t hurt because it keeps him off the field. 

12 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

 

The reality is, the biggest way they cheat is rarely  ever even talked about...

 

They cheat with the salary cap.  

 

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, yet continually makes quite a bit less money than that title should afford him.  And it's not all out of the goodness of his heart that he takes less.  The team has found ways to compensate him that don't count against the cap, with the most obvious being hiring his TB12 company.  It's complete bull####.  

 

And beyond the cheating, they are also masters of "gamesmanship" ie pushing the rules as far as they can go without either A) breaking them or b) not getting called out for breaking them...kinda like going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught.  In the NFL where the difference between winning and losing is razor sharp, those little edges become huge.

How much money do you think Kraft has put into an offshore account for Tommy Boy? 

[Bmbchiefs66]

750,543,654.77 has been transfered to bradys off shore accounts. 

[Big Turk]

I dunno if we even need to go heavy...the Bills ran the ball very well on them the first game...Gore had 109 yards on the ground...

[Bmbchiefs66]

The bills wont beat them in new england most expected a tough game up there. The next game will be your typical 14+ point win. I suspect the bill will be a about.500 at that point. Allen will hold the team back. He is terrible, lacks awarness. His decison making is atroucious. It was a good start for the bills but bad times are coming. Win over maimi followed by some bad play.  I feel bad for you bills fans. Just get lead on and hopes lifted and then failure kicks in.

[Doc Brown]

On 10/11/2019 at 12:07 AM, BigDingus said:

Have to run, passing is futile at this point against them.

They're talking about it right now on the post game, the Pats defense is playing at historically great levels and is on pace to go down as the top defense of ALL TIME.

Our offense has no chance passing against them, so better get that run game going...It's our only shot.

You act like they're some historic defense.  We threw for 288 yards against them (not counting the sacks) and rushed for 135 yards at 6.1 ypc.  Turnovers, special teams, and not being able to punch it in from the one at the end killed us.  John Brown was one yard away from taking the lead at 17-16.  Our offensive game plan was fine.  It was simply Allen making poor decisions.

 

The reason their defensive stats are off the charts is because of the teams and QB's they've faced.  A we never bothered with training camp Pittsburgh team where Big Ben still put up 276 passing yards.  Fitzpatrick in full pickspatrick mode behind a terrible Dolphins line.  A practice squad QB in Luke Falk.  Colt freaking McCoy and the god awful Redskins.  Then Daniel Jones without Barkley, Engram, or Sheppard.  They'll be put back to earth once the competition increases playing Mayfield, Jackson, Wentz, Prescott, Watson, and Mahomes in six straight games.