******* Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quarterback A: 248-451, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yards per attempt, 13 touchdowns, 18 interceptions, 13 fumbles, 8-7 record. Quarterback B: 256-437, 2,810 yards, 6.4 yards per attempt 16 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 6-8 record guess who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyPercent Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 These two stat lines better not be separated by more than a few years, otherwise this game you're playing is stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 QB A is Josh Allen and QB B is also Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I know the answer because I too read The Athletic article lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, ******* said: Quarterback A: 248-451, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yards per attempt, 13 touchdowns, 18 interceptions, 13 fumbles, 8-7 record. Quarterback B: 256-437, 2,810 yards, 6.4 yards per attempt 16 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 6-8 record guess who ripping tim graham’s tweet to start a thread and not giving credit? Boo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Allen and Manuel before he got benched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I give up. Who is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Yea that's Josh Allen and EJ Manuel. Josh does have 11 rushing TDs but as passers... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Likes The Bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 That’s interesting! Not really relevant but interesting none the less 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Darragh Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I said on another thread that Allen is beginning to look like EJ 2.0. I wish I was wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea that's Josh Allen and EJ Manuel. Josh does have 11 rushing TDs but as passers... I think it was stupid how early we gave up on EJ. You draft a guy in the 1st, you need to ride with him. I think Allen is a lot closer to EJ than Tom Brady at this point. that said, a big part of EJ’s problem was he played like a robot. Allen, who I have been critical of, lays it all on the line and goes down firing. I respect that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it was stupid how early we gave up on EJ. You draft a guy in the 1st, you need to ride with him. I think Allen is a lot closer to EJ than Tom Brady at this point. that said, a big part of EJ’s problem was he played like a robot. Allen, who I have been critical of, lays it all on the line and goes down firing. I respect that. I think you see the difference in the W/L column because Allen does lay it all out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said: I think you see the difference in the W/L column because Allen does lay it all out there. My only counter to that would be is Allen benefits from one of the best defenses in the nfl. Allen would have much worse W/L if Arizona drafted him. Allen gets more chances to “win” games because the D is awesome (?). Thats what makes what Mahomes is doing even more amazing. His defense is terrible and he just lights up the scoreboard to overcome them. I don’t want our defense to give up points but I’d love to see a game where Allen wins a shootout against a good qb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: My only counter to that would be is Allen benefits from one of the best defenses in the nfl. Allen would have much worse W/L if Arizona drafted him. Allen gets more chances to “win” games because the D is awesome (?). Thats what makes what Mahomes is doing even more amazing. His defense is terrible and he just lights up the scoreboard to overcome them. I don’t want our defense to give up points but I’d love to see a game where Allen wins a shootout against a good qb. its a fair point but it applies to both qb's. ej's 2nd season, in which he got benched, was the last season we had a very good defense. that was easily a top 3-5 unit...I would argue elite. Edited September 30, 2019 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The biggest difference is EJ looked to have reached his full potential. Allen is still progressing. That TD drive yesterday is what we need from Josh . He took what the D gave him versus the first half where he was too much of a gunslinger and just played too undisciplined. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: My only counter to that would be is Allen benefits from one of the best defenses in the nfl. Allen would have much worse W/L if Arizona drafted him. Allen gets more chances to “win” games because the D is awesome (?). Thats what makes what Mahomes is doing even more amazing. His defense is terrible and he just lights up the scoreboard to overcome them. I don’t want our defense to give up points but I’d love to see a game where Allen wins a shootout against a good qb. That's fair but the Bills 2014 defense, when he was benched, was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: That's fair but the Bills 2014 defense, when he was benched, was very good. Agreed but EJ was benched with 5 tds, 3 ints and an 80 QB rating (Allen has a 69 right now). I actually had flashbacks of what would happen if Barkley looked good and won the game. But you obviously are riding with Allen this year and he plays the right way. I just hope he gets smarter with the ball without losing all of his aggressiveness. 14 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: its a fair point but it applies to both qb's. ej's 2nd season, in which he got benched, was the last season we had a very good defense. that was easily a top 3-5 unit...I would argue elite. I agree. I think if you draft a qb in the 1st, you need to give them at least 2 years as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Agreed but EJ was benched with 5 tds, 3 ints and an 80 QB rating (Allen has a 69 right now). I actually had flashbacks of what would happen if Barkley looked good and won the game. But you obviously are riding with Allen this year and he plays the right way. I just hope he gets smarter with the ball without losing all of his aggressiveness. Yea true, just think it's different coaching styles to be honest. Marrone was never really in love with the pick and so didn't really back playing him. I do think Allen has a much higher ceiling than Manuel but if he ever get's there is anyone's guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea true, just think it's different coaching styles to be honest. Marrone was never really in love with the pick and so didn't really back playing him. I do think Allen has a much higher ceiling than Manuel but if he ever get's there is anyone's guess. Allen plays the way I wanted EJ to play. Allen has a great attitude but I do think some fans are too willing to overlook the very serious concerns that “haters” had about him. At this point, running is too much a part of his game. Teams might not be able to do it as well as NE but the game plan on Allen is out. Hopefully, he adjusts because I did see some nice things in the first couple of games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I'm a big time FSU fan. The problem with EJ was he waited for the receiver to get open, then throw it to him. He could get away with that in college. Not in the NFL. DB's are too good. Josh has the tools and has shown the ability to throw a receiver open, to a degree. IMO, EJ reached his potential as a college QB. Josh still has a ton of potential for improvement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 It's supposed to suggest JA's career has mirrored EJ's to this point. It conveniently omits what Allen has done with his legs. It also fails to show the difference between a guy who goes for it (Allen) vs the guy who throws a chicken ***** pass for a safe 5 yd completion on 3rd and 12 (Manwell). I have some skepticism about Allen, but I had been done with Manwell by this stage of the game. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Allen plays the way I wanted EJ to play. Allen has a great attitude but I do think some fans are too willing to overlook the very serious concerns that “haters” had about him. At this point, running is too much a part of his game. Teams might not be able to do it as well as NE but the game plan on Allen is out. Hopefully, he adjusts because I did see some nice things in the first couple of games. The running I think is his way of overcoming not being able to make a play. The problem is, yesterday specifically, that there were plays to be made. If he would have just taken what the Pats were giving them, which he did with the drive in the 3rd, they could points on the scoreboard. And it may not be pretty but it gets the job done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor26 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 EJ had the worst anticipation ever. Wouldn't throw to a guy until they were open. And he never took shots, always looked tentative out there. If Josh learns to improve his decision making, he's way better than EJ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said: Yea that's Josh Allen and EJ Manuel. Josh does have 11 rushing TDs but as passers... How many fumbles, both lost and recovered, does Allen have? If we’re going to give him credit for his stats with his legs (and we should) then fumbles also become relevant. My biggest complaint about Allen is ball security. Both has a passer and a runner. He’s just careless, and you don't last long in the NFL, at any position, if you’re careless with the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it was stupid how early we gave up on EJ. You draft a guy in the 1st, you need to ride with him. I think Allen is a lot closer to EJ than Tom Brady at this point. that said, a big part of EJ’s problem was he played like a robot. Allen, who I have been critical of, lays it all on the line and goes down firing. I respect that. Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 So we realize the Pats secondary is elite and got the best of Allen. Here's a big question for me...… there were a handful(not many, but a couple) of plays where he had a TON of time in the pocket and didn't pull the trigger. I have to wonder if everyone was blanketed or if he just didn't see what he needed to see. I really wanna see him nail some chunk throws in that those situations going forward against lessor secondary's.... the fan in me is hoping it was just the pats defense covering THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, MDH said: How many fumbles, both lost and recovered, does Allen have? If we’re going to give him credit for his stats with his legs (and we should) then fumbles also become relevant. My biggest complaint about Allen is ball security. Both has a passer and a runner. He’s just careless, and you don't last long in the NFL, at any position, if you’re careless with the ball. That'll be 13 fumbles and 4 lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB. This is the absolute worst take. Manuel was too dumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said: This is the absolute worst take. Manuel was too dumb? yes. As soon as he got to Buffalo, he famously claimed that the BIlls playbook was easier to learn than Florida State's. He had no idea what he was looking at---that carried over onto the field. Nice guy, but JPL dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it was stupid how early we gave up on EJ. You draft a guy in the 1st, you need to ride with him. I think Allen is a lot closer to EJ than Tom Brady at this point. that said, a big part of EJ’s problem was he played like a robot. Allen, who I have been critical of, lays it all on the line and goes down firing. I respect that. Very good point, and nice differentiation. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billvernsays Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I was excited for EJ as I’m excited about Josh Allen. The difference is context. Sure, Josh Allen tries to force the ball downfield too much at times but you always feel like we have a shot in the 4th quarter. EJ never gave me any confidence that he could convert a 3rd and 16, Neither did almost every QB we’ve had since Drew Bledsoe. Josh is different, he needs to learn want he can and can’t do. He’ll get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) Stats are one thing, and Im a analytics guy, but you have to see the way they play for it to make sense as to why I believe n JA more. EJ looked terrified out there, Allen looks much more comfortable since coming back from injury, save for this past game. I would rather have a QB that can do it all and try to reign him in than one that doesnt look like he can make the throws. EJs throwing motion was just so awful, throwing darts. I dont think EJ ever looked as comfortable as Allen has looked in the pocket through the first 3 weeks. But this NE was bad bad bad. Edited September 30, 2019 by jletha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB. After how many years did the NFL give up on EJ? He was still on a roster until this offseason...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, apuszczalowski said: After how many years did the NFL give up on EJ? He was still on a roster until this offseason...... GM's aren't universally celebrated for their brains either. JP took a while to convince the dumbest GM's he wasn't fit for the league as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 If you can't tell the difference, as a QB, between Manuel and Allen you shouldn't be watching football. Raw statistical comparisons, especially so small a small sample size, are a very poor method for comparing different quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrediggerPoke Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, ******* said: Quarterback A: 248-451, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yards per attempt, 13 touchdowns, 18 interceptions, 13 fumbles, 8-7 record. Quarterback B: 256-437, 2,810 yards, 6.4 yards per attempt 16 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 6-8 record guess who Stats are for losers...especially when they are cherry picked. EJ Manual had 339 career rushing yards over parts of 5 seasons. Josh Allen has 762 rushing yards in 16 career appearances. But they are 'equal' because the yards per attempt are similar. bull####. Honestly, I am starting to sour on a lot of the Buffalo fans with the constant Allen negativity on here. The dude is a competitor. He is going to make mistakes. He is going to have his struggles. But I don't give a *****, ask me the one QB in the NFL that I want in the 4th quarter to lead my team back and I am taking Josh Allen. Bills beat the Patriots if Josh Allen is on the field at the end of the game. Plain and Simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it was stupid how early we gave up on EJ. You draft a guy in the 1st, you need to ride with him. I think Allen is a lot closer to EJ than Tom Brady at this point. that said, a big part of EJ’s problem was he played like a robot. Allen, who I have been critical of, lays it all on the line and goes down firing. I respect that. Allen is closer to EJ than the best QB of all time? Are you sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB. He was on the Chiefs until he retired this offseason. But what does Andy Reid know about qbs? of course you were the guy laughing about Mahomes last offseason. Edited September 30, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: yes. As soon as he got to Buffalo, he famously claimed that the BIlls playbook was easier to learn than Florida State's. He had no idea what he was looking at---that carried over onto the field. Nice guy, but JPL dumb. That in no way proves your point. Considering Hackett was a first time OC. Entirely possible, seeing as how bad he was in Buffalo, that his offensive system wasnt overly intricate or hard to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/30/2019 at 7:09 AM, Dopey said: I'm a big time FSU fan. The problem with EJ was he waited for the receiver to get open, then throw it to him. He could get away with that in college. Not in the NFL. DB's are too good. Josh has the tools and has shown the ability to throw a receiver open, to a degree. IMO, EJ reached his potential as a college QB. Josh still has a ton of potential for improvement. And it wasn’t like he was all that great in college. FSU fans here correctly predicted he’d be a bust at the time. It’s a dumb comparison. I’m sure we could find some HOF QBs who had similar stat lines after 15 games if we tried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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