Did Jonathan Jones purposely take out Josh Allen?

[HOUSE]

I watched this clip over and over, my eyes hurt. If you watch closely Jonathon Jones is clearly aiming for a shoulder pad hit but at the last moment raises his head to hit Josh Allen helmet to helmet.

IMO, its a clear attempt to injure.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by HOUSE

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yes.

 

And it's really not even a question.

 

[Captain Murica]

Yes. 

 

I usually don’t assume intent but this was blatant. There was no need for Jones to even be involved. Allen was already going down and being engaged by another tackler. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Captain Murica

[TroutDog]

I agree completely. The Pats* knew of Josh’s comebacks and wanted to remove him from the equation. They succeeded and the league let them. 

[Chris66]

No. Allen is still driving forward. Allens crown of his helmet actually hits the side of Jones helmet. If the nfl see it the same way thete wont be a fine. It just a smaller guy trying to stop a bigger one.

[JMF2006]

2 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

No. Allen is still driving forward. Allens crown of his helmet actually hits the side of Jones helmet. If the nfl see it the same way thete wont be a fine. It just a smaller guy trying to stop a bigger one.

 

Our resident Belicheat apologist and Brady nut swinger

[Matt_In_NH]

It was a penalty, we can argue about intent and if he should have been ejected all day and I am sure he will get fined.  But to go frame by frame and decide that he changed his target for the sole intent on injuring is pure conjecture.  Given the down and distance, it was important to stop forward progress immediately.  Here is the thing from my perspective, the QB should use his arm to beat the opponent and not have to rely on putting his head down and trying to move the chains.  If that continues, injuries will continue.

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

[PatsFanNH]

6 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

I agree completely. The Pats* knew of Josh’s comebacks and wanted to remove him from the equation. They succeeded and the league let them. 

That makes no sense.  Now if Allen had been in the pocket and took the hit and not 7 yards downfield running and trying get the first down I could see your point.  This is Allen acting like Cam Newton and getting lit up. (This time illegally) Allen needs to learn to slide to protect himself otherwise he will have a short career. (Like Newton. Who I like as a QB)

[bmur66]

Maybe it was intentional. Maybe it wasn't. How do you judge someone's intent? Fact is it was a helmet to helmet hit and apparently the NFL didn't think it rose to the "ejection level" whatever that means. 

 

Bottom line is Allen should have slid and avoided the hit. Yes it was 3rd down and he was trying get the first. That decision cost him an injury and any chance at a comeback.

 

Did anyone notice what the offsetting penalty was? I did not see it at the game or watching the replay? 

Edited September 30, 2019 by bmur66

[JMF2006]

4 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

 

The steroids have rotted his brain

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

 

They did add a penalty a couple years ago about runners lowing their head, not sure it has eve been called.  I really think you have to consider the down and distance and the fact Allen was approaching the sticks on 3rd and 8.  He was going for the first down, the defender was trying to prevent it.   The play was illegal on the defenders side for sure but I have seen much worse.

[SoCal Deek]

The intent is evident by the defensive backs post hit reaction. Much different from how D Linemen now react or pull up when hitting the QB. Suspend him!

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That makes no sense.  Now if Allen had been in the pocket and took the hit and not 7 yards downfield running and trying get the first down I could see your point.  This is Allen acting like Cam Newton and getting lit up. (This time illegally) Allen needs to learn to slide to protect himself otherwise he will have a short career. (Like Newton. Who I like as a QB)

Now, this really makes no sense. Why have a rule in place for unsportsmanlike conduct if it's acceptable lay a helmet-to-helmet hit on someone?

 

Your boy went full Jack Tatum on the guy being tackled and you're blaming the victim. 

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

There are a lot of people in this republic who are immune to things like facts and evidence. Golic apparently is one of them.

[H2o]

DEFINITELY an intentional hit to the head. That was straight out of the Greggo playbook. 

11 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

Golic rides the short bus to work. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by H2o

[Captain Murica]

19 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

No. Allen is still driving forward. Allens crown of his helmet actually hits the side of Jones helmet. If the nfl see it the same way thete wont be a fine. It just a smaller guy trying to stop a bigger one.

Go the ***** away lol. 

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Now, this really makes no sense. Why have a rule in place for unsportsmanlike conduct if it's acceptable lay a helmet-to-helmet hit on someone?

 

Your boy went full Jack Tatum on the guy being tackled and you're blaming the victim. 

No, I meant the Patriots purposely went out there to hurt him (or intent) it just happened was no intent by the team for it.. how would they know he would scramble and refuse go down?

 

im blaming Allen for being to much like Newton! Cam did the same dang thing and UNLIKE Allen he rarely even got the flag thrown for the helmet to helmet on him.  Maybe I’m crazy but as a fan I wouldn’t think you would want your FQB taken a beating like that for a yard... you were in FG range and plenty of time left.. 

[H2o]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

No, I meant the Patriots purposely went out there to hurt him (or intent) it just happened was no intent by the team for it.. how would they know he would scramble and refuse go down?

 

im blaming Allen for being to much like Newton! Cam did the same dang thing and UNLIKE Allen he rarely even got the flag thrown for the helmet to helmet on him.  Maybe I’m crazy but as a fan I wouldn’t think you would want your FQB taken a beating like that for a yard... you were in FG range and plenty of time left.. 

Seized the opportunity to take the head shot. It was pretty clear. Then afterwards his body language was like he was proud of himself.  that guy. There is a Jarvis Landry type of crack-back block in his near future. 

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, H2o said:

Seized the opportunity to take the head shot. It was pretty clear. Then afterwards his body language was like he was proud of himself.  that guy. There is a Jarvis Landry type of crack-back block in his near future. 

I’m not talking PLAYER intent as I am not in his head.. but TEAM intent.. the amount of pressure they had on Allen if the team “wanted” it they could have set it up any time while in the pocket..

 

[Dopey]

He purposely hit Josh hard, but I don't think he had had it in his mind to take Josh out. Football is still a violent game.

[Blank Stare]

20 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

I’m sorry, but what a douche. 

[Nuncha]

22 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Mike Golic just said the flag should’ve been picked up or thrown on Josh Allen for lowering his head and that the patriot player tried to hit with his shoulder pads.... I have no clue where he gets any of that from watching the clip

Of course Allen lowered his head - he did it not to initiate contact but in attempt to dive to get the first down.  WTF is Golic looking at?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Azucho98

[H2o]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

I’m not talking PLAYER intent as I am not in his head.. but TEAM intent.. the amount of pressure they had on Allen if the team “wanted” it they could have set it up any time while in the pocket..

 

I can't see BB telling his players to do that, but there are some dirty mutha  on that defense and team in general. Van Noy is another along with Chung and Bennett. Who knows what they talk about amongst each other? 

[Billsatlastin2018]

29 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

Yes. 

 

I usually don’t assume intent but this was blatant. There was no need for Jones to even being involved. Allen was already going down and being engaged by another tackler. 

 

 

THIS is the most correct interpretation. That Cheatriots thug saw an opportunity and he TOOK it!

 

100%.

 

If the NFL gives two shites about head hitting, off goes this gangsta for a few!

 

Also- if it really cares, a head hitter penalty can never be off set by any lesser violation- like Holding. Either the yardage needs to be increased or the hit penalty is assessed and the down remains the same.

 

Looks completely foolish on the NFL’s part!

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

15 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

They did add a penalty a couple years ago about runners lowing their head, not sure it has eve been called.  I really think you have to consider the down and distance and the fact Allen was approaching the sticks on 3rd and 8.  He was going for the first down, the defender was trying to prevent it.   The play was illegal on the defenders side for sure but I have seen much worse.

I know the penalty goes both ways for dropping your head, but it seems like a stretch to say Allen lowers his head, any slight drop in his head is 100% due to the fact he is trying to hold onto the ball in preparation for the big hit he is about to take.

[Billsatlastin2018]

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

He purposely hit Josh hard, but I don't think he had had it in his mind to take Josh out. Football is still a violent game.

 

Maybe. But, he purposely hit him helmet to helmet! And many of those- off you go! 

[Dopey]

3 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Of course Allen lowered his head - he did it not to initiate contact but in attempt to dive to get the first down.  WTF is Golic looking at?

That is definitely what Josh was trying to do. Having said this, the DB did his job in keeping Josh from getting the extra yardage. Golic is wrong, it should have been and was a penalty.

[nucci]

23 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Maybe it was intentional. Maybe it wasn't. How do you judge someone's intent? Fact is it was a helmet to helmet hit and apparently the NFL didn't think it rose to the "ejection level" whatever that means. 

 

Bottom line is Allen should have slid and avoided the hit. Yes it was 3rd down and he was trying get the first. That decision cost him an injury and any chance at a comeback.

 

Did anyone notice what the offsetting penalty was? I did not see it at the game or watching the replay? 

Similar hit Thursday night...Barnett on Williams...taken off on stretcher and he wasn't ejected. I don't think the league knows what they are doing....Hyde was right though....if one of our guys hit Brady like that.....

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

19 minutes ago, mannc said:

There are a lot of people in this republic who are immune to things like facts and evidence. Golic apparently is one of them.

 

He threw it in right after a rant about how Vontaz Burfict should be suspended for his hit because the league is getting those hits out of the game, and then said the crap about Josh Allen's hit and that McDermott needs to watch the tape of the hit because it was Josh that led with his helmet.  What a load of garbage!!!!!!!!!

[Dopey]

5 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

 

Maybe. But, he purposely hit him helmet to helmet! And many of those- off you go! 

Yep, maybe he should go, but the question was" Did Jonathan Jones purposely take out Josh Allen?"

Josh was trying to get extra yardage and a first down. The DB kept him from doing so. That was his intent. IMO. 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Dopey

[frostbitmic]

I see that the NFL has blocked that video ... Something to hide Goodell ?

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

Similar hit Thursday night...Barnett on Williams...taken off on stretcher and he wasn't ejected. I don't think the league knows what they are doing....Hyde was right though....if one of our guys hit Brady like that.....

No doubt.

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

Similar hit Thursday night...Barnett on Williams...taken off on stretcher and he wasn't ejected. I don't think the league knows what they are doing....Hyde was right though....if one of our guys hit Brady like that.....

Brady rarely runs and when he does he slides before he gets hit.. if that had been done in the pocket the player would have been ejected.. 

[Romie]

The taunting afterwards tells you everything you need to know.  Cheaters gonna cheat doesn't matter the expense.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

No, I meant the Patriots purposely went out there to hurt him (or intent) it just happened was no intent by the team for it.. how would they know he would scramble and refuse go down?

 

im blaming Allen for being to much like Newton! Cam did the same dang thing and UNLIKE Allen he rarely even got the flag thrown for the helmet to helmet on him.  Maybe I’m crazy but as a fan I wouldn’t think you would want your FQB taken a beating like that for a yard... you were in FG range and plenty of time left.. 

Well you're crazy in the sense that you're disregarding the cause of the injury and placing it on the shoulders of the guy who was hit.

 

Is there a football fan or players left that doesn't know about the helmet to helmet rule?  The entire game is played out without a similar occurrence, yet occurs when the opportunity presents itself. 

 

The Pat's are widely and correctly acknowledged for incredible attention to detail when preparing for games. They know the tendencies of the players and are coached accordingly.  "Do your job" is the mantra.  No need to rehash the past here, but the ship sailed a long time ago on giving the Pats the benefit of the doubt.  Imo they are coached up to and including this sort of thing.  When Gronkowski assaulted Tre White, where was the team punishment? Heck, going back to  Wilfork blowing out Losman's knee with an elbow? And so on. 

 

As a fan I'd like to see JA slide. However, the context of the game matters.  You're down 6 due in large part to your performance, you're certainly not getting help from the officials (flags thrown and picked up om def holding when approaching the red zone,  illegal formations/attack on special teams, review on int being questioned by a former official, and eventually grounding not being grounding when its grounding), you're 23 and you put it all on your back. Bad choice to be sure, but the byproduct of NOT sliding is not assumed to be a clear helmet to helmet hit.  Similarly, under pressure, one would not assume that scrambling to avoid a sack would result in a helmet to helmet hit, a dive at the knees or a head slap. 

 

You're correct that it is naive to think a defensive player on the other side won't target the head.  I don't think the same sort of scenario would have played out had he not scrambled. I'm 50/50 on whether he would have taken the shot to the head if he slid. I'd like to think no, but then again the rule on helmet to helmet is pretty well established and yet it happened in a big way.

 

I'd consider this a crime of opportunity. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I’m sorry, but what a douche. 

 

As a mod, I ought to object (and would if towards another poster)

 

Given the context of what Golic said - “you’re too kind”

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 minutes ago, nucci said:

Similar hit Thursday night...Barnett on Williams...taken off on stretcher and he wasn't ejected. I don't think the league knows what they are doing....Hyde was right though....if one of our guys hit Brady like that.....

I think they know, I think they protect the brand above all else, and the brand wants nothing to do with widespread condemnation of players out causing concussions in the era of CTE. 

 

Brady is the one of the marquis faces of the brand, thus injury to him is a very bad thing for the league.  Fans love him, or hate him, but he draws the crowd. When all is said and done, a JA, Cam Newton or Barnett is disposable, Brady or Brees absolutely not. 

[FiftyPercent]

He had an opportunity to go helmet to helmet and he took his shot, just like he's coached to do, the Patriot way yadda...

[Blank Stare]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As a mod, I ought to object (and would if towards another poster)

 

Given the context of what Golic said - “you’re too kind”

Much appreciated. I’m not normally one for the language, but I’m at a loss for words. Pats never do anything wrong. Never mind that Jones stood over Josh and flexed after the hit. Replay showed that, but I guess intent wasn’t there to throw him out of the game. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by TheProcess