Jets desperate at C, bring Ryan Kalil out of retirement (update: not going well)

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, Estro said:

Jets get a C for probably $4 or $5 M this year and dont have to give up any draft picks or sign a guy who will count against them in compensatory formula.

 

Not bad on the Jets part.

 

To all the Bills fans.....keep in mind the Bills are paying Morse $19M in cash this year.  Hes currently sitting out pf practice with his 3rd or 4th concussion injury.

 

Which move looks more responsible to you?

They get one year of headaches and we get four years of concussions.

[eball]

3 hours ago, Estro said:

Which move looks more responsible to you?

Is this really a serious question? The Jets just literally begged an over-the-hill C to un-retire because their new GM sees what a shitshow there is at the position, while the Bills paid a young guy who despite some injury history has been a top C in the league. If Morse retires or is unavailable because of concussions it’s bad luck, not irresponsible. 

[Estro]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Is this really a serious question? The Jets just literally begged an over-the-hill C to un-retire because their new GM sees what a shitshow there is at the position, while the Bills paid a young guy who despite some injury history has been a top C in the league. If Morse retires or is unavailable because of concussions it’s bad luck, not irresponsible. 

 

If concussions weren't part of Morse's history, I would agree with you, but they are.......and the Bills gave a guy who's had 3 or 4 concussions in the last 3-4 years a record contract, including $19M in cash this season.  He then suffers a concussion in the first padded practice of the year......you can't call it bad luck if there was a track record of this specific injury, an injury that happens more frequently once you've had them.

 

Look I'm not saying I don't like the player......I do......I think he's much better than Kalil at this point.  I'm just pointing out that one is going to make $5 or $6M this year and the other is making $19M in cash this year.....and has yet another concussion.  I'm very concerned.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Estro

[Bruce Harper]

13 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya the local media here was very harsh on the Jets F.O for not addressing OL in FA , especially C. They wanted , actually expected Morse or Paradias. They're very thin at OL all around.

 

Which is why I think Bell is not going to have close to the impact he had on Pitt with the best OL in the game and a top 5 WR. 

I love the dysfunction.

Gase was apparently upset at the contract amounts they gave out without upgrading OL. According to local media 

 

Not sure how improving themselves at a major position of need constitutes disfunction. PFF had him 17th in the league last year at his position. Harrison at 31. His experience should be very helpful to the young QB. Jets are under new management. May be time to retire the disfunction narrative. 

12 hours ago, KRT88 said:

They let Spencer Long go during the off season.  Maybe the broken finger hurt his performance ?

 

Long was horrible last year. But yes, I’m sure the finger had something to do with it. 

[Bruce Harper]

14 hours ago, aristocrat said:

He was terrible last year

Middle of the pack, which is way better than what the Jets had. 

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

 

Not sure how improving themselves at a major position of need constitutes disfunction. PFF had him 17th in the league last year at his position. Harrison at 31. His experience should be very helpful to the young QB. Jets are under new management. May be time to retire the disfunction narrative. 

 

Long was horrible last year. But yes, I’m sure the finger had something to do with it. 

Ya they are a real wildcard to me. I just wasn't a fan of their off season moves. Especially the Mosley and Bell contracts. But new GM , there is plenty of optimism

[Dopey]

16 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

They are paying him up to $8m according to Rap. Yikes for hikes..

That'll bring someone out of retirement. 

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Estro said:

If concussions weren't part of Morse's history, I would agree with you, but they are.......and the Bills gave a guy who's had 3 or 4 concussions in the last 3-4 years a record contract, including $19M in cash this season.  He then suffers a concussion in the first padded practice of the year......you can't call it bad luck if there was a track record of this specific injury, an injury that happens more frequently once you've had them.

 

Look I'm not saying I don't like the player......I do......I think he's much better than Kalil at this point.  I'm just pointing out that one is going to make $5 or $6M this year and the other is making $19M in cash this year.....and has yet another concussion.  I'm very concerned.

 

We should worry if/when Morse starts missing real games.  And they have a contingency plan or two.  The Jets basically will have to pray that Kalil somehow found the fountain of youth and good play after he retired and that's unlikely.

[DrDawkinstein]

Intersting, I just finished the Panthers All or Nothing season last night. And I remember watching him last season in games. Kalil looked done then.

 

I'm sure he'll bring his experience and knowledge and help get the right protections called at the line. But it'll be a different story when he physically needs to block Ed Oliver.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't think Jets line will be good by any means but awful? Nah.

 

They have some really good skill players so I expect them to have a pretty prolific passing offense. Still going with my prediction of 10 wins for them. 

SMH. Wins and losses start in the trenches. A “pretty prolific passing offense” as helmed by a 2nd yr starter who will be less able to run for his life, extend plays than Allen when things inevitably break down behind that line?  Where are these 10 wins coming from exactly? Darnold has a penchant for INT’s as it is, so add in no time for plays to develop and I’m scratching my head over how that’s supposed to go better than Buffalo’s WL prediction from you? 

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Intersting, I just finished the Panthers All or Nothing season last night. And I remember watching him last season in games. Kalil looked done then.

 

I'm sure he'll bring his experience and knowledge and help get the right protections called at the line. But it'll be a different story when he physically needs to block Ed Oliver.

 

If he was retired, it's almost a certainty he didn't keep up with any high level offseason conditioning/workouts.  Now he's even older, trying to expedite his football shape....and he was already declining.  I think he gets mauled.  He will be their Geoff Hangartner.

[eball]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

A lot of fans seem to be penciling opening day in as an easy victory for the Bills. I'm confused as to why. 

 

 

Which fans?  Please, name names.  I think what you're misinterpreting is that Bills fans are not looking at the game as a "sure loss" -- if anything it should be considered a toss up at this point.  And lo and behold, when I check the sportsbook the current line is Jets -3 -- a toss-up with home field advantage thrown in.

 

[RiotAct]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hopefully.

 

A lot of fans seem to be penciling opening day in as an easy victory for the Bills. I'm confused as to why. 

I agree.  I have it penciled in as one of our five losses this season.  Jets are at home, with a new coaching staff (so no tape on their tendencies as a group), plus their roster is a little more talented than ours on paper.

11 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Which fans?  Please, name names. 

me

[C.Biscuit97]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Which fans?  Please, name names.  I think what you're misinterpreting is that Bills fans are not looking at the game as a "sure loss" -- if anything it should be considered a toss up at this point.  And lo and behold, when I check the sportsbook the current line is Jets -3 -- a toss-up with home field advantage thrown in.

 

If I was a neutral fan, I won’t touch the Bills-Jets game.  IMO, they are basically the same team.  I could imagine anything happening.  I will say if we win that game, that would be an amazing sign for the rest of the season. 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If I was a neutral fan, I won’t touch the Bills-Jets game.  IMO, they are basically the same team.  I could imagine anything happening.  I will say if we win that game, that would be an amazing sign for the rest of the season. 

I agree with this. Right now it’s just too hard to tell if either team has taken that step forward. 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

I agree with this. Right now it’s just too hard to tell if either team has taken that step forward. 

I mean it’s game 1 so it’s silly to overreact either way.  But since it’s a home game, it’s more important to the Jets.

[Dave Allen]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

I agree with this. Right now it’s just too hard to tell if either team has taken that step forward. 

 

I think the game comes down to the quarterbacks - whichever one has the best support and has made the biggest gain in the offseason. 

[Kelly the Dog]

15 minutes ago, Dave Allen said:

 

I think the game comes down to the quarterbacks - whichever one has the best support and has made the biggest gain in the offseason. 

And coaching, and defense, and luck.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

And coaching, and defense, and luck.

 

I think the game hinges on all of those, and also special teams.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Hopefully.

 

A lot of fans seem to be penciling opening day in as an easy victory for the Bills. I'm confused as to why. 

 

I dont know many folks calling it an "easy" victory, as much as seeing it as a winnable game.

 

As others have said, we're basically the same team. Except I like our coaching and OL better.

 

It's not a gimme, but it's definitely winnable.

 

Additions like Kalil as starting Center only help us.

Edited August 2, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[Heitz]

Texting with a Jets fan that seems to think our O line sucks, that Allen is struggling and that signing Kalil was the best thing to happen to Darnold, per this article:

 

https://www.nj.com/jets/2019/08/ryan-kalil-comes-out-of-retirement-to-join-jets-why-this-is-the-perfect-development-for-sam-darnold.html

 

Can the season just start already??

 

[eball]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I dont know many folks calling it an "easy" victory, as much as seeing it as a winnable game.

 

Now week TWO, on the other hand...

 

Actually, I'm kidding.  Even with all of the Giants' issues they'll still probably be favored in that one.

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Sometimes you pass

 

And sometimes you just f*** up.

 

12 hours ago, eball said:

Is this really a serious question? The Jets just literally begged an over-the-hill C to un-retire because their new GM sees what a shitshow there is at the position, while the Bills paid a young guy who despite some injury history has been a top C in the league. If Morse retires or is unavailable because of concussions it’s bad luck, not irresponsible. 

 

Pot meet kettle.   The Bills begged an over-the-hill QB to un-retire for a month during the season because their HC and GM thought Nathan Peterman could be a starting NFL QB.

 

Good teams make their own luck while bad teams (and their fans) make excuses.  It's been well known since CTE first made the news a few years ago that there's apparently some kind of mulltiplier effect involving concussions -- the incidence of getting them and their severity both seem to increase as an individual has more.  A play whose had 1 concussion is likely to have another one.  A player who's had three is extremely likely to have more -- and for the effects to be more severe and long lasting.  If a team isn't aware of this when a signing FA, then that's incompetence.  If they're aware of it and still do it, it's betting that the 50-1 shot is gonna win the race.

 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

We should worry if/when Morse starts missing real games.  And they have a contingency plan or two.  The Jets basically will have to pray that Kalil somehow found the fountain of youth and good play after he retired and that's unlikely.

 

What's Bills' contingency plan at C if Morse can't play?  Bodine?   Groy?  Long? 

 

Kalil suffered a serious neck injury in 2017.  It's entirely possible that he wasn't fully recovered during the 2018.  The Bills are counting on Trent Murphy being finally fully recovered from his knee injury after his lousy 2018 aren't they? 

[eball]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

Pot meet kettle.   The Bills begged an over-the-hill QB to un-retire for a month during the season because their HC and GM thought Nathan Peterman could be a starting NFL QB.

 

And ALL of us roundly criticized Beane for not taking better care of the QB room before the season began.  So again, I fail to see your point other than you love to rail on Bills fans despite claiming to be one.

[Captain Hindsight]

42 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Pot meet kettle.   The Bills begged an over-the-hill QB to un-retire for a month during the season because their HC and GM thought Nathan Peterman could be a starting NFL QB.

 

 

 

What's Bills' contingency plan at C if Morse can't play?  Bodine?   Groy?  Long? 

And Beane admitted they should have gotten DA here sooner and cut Peterman as soon as Barkley was ready and Josh was healthy. They admitted their mistake, will learn from it and are moving on. Not sure why you feel the need to continue to harp on it 

 

What is any teams contingency if a starter gets hurt? Hope the backup plays well

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

And Beane admitted they should have gotten DA here sooner and cut Peterman as soon as Barkley was ready and Josh was healthy. They admitted their mistake, will learn from it and are moving on. Not sure why you feel the need to continue to harp on it 

 

What is any teams contingency if a starter gets hurt? Hope the backup plays well

 

Yadda, yadda, yadda.  I'm tired of the excuses fans make for the inexcusable mistakes made by McDermott and Beane because one appears to be clueless about offensive football and the other appears to be just clueless.  Beane's admission only underscores his cluelessness because it misses the point that the mistake wasn't waiting for Anderson, it was naming Peterman starter in the first place, and then not bringing in another QB to replace him immediately. 

 

However the Kalil signing works out for the Jests, at least their HC and new GM were smart enough to realize that their current C isn't good enough and took steps to acquire what they hope is a better one before the start of the regular season.   That's called being proactive. 

 

[Fan in San Diego]

23 hours ago, DJB said:

We shouldn't really poke fun considering Morse in protocol 

Any word on the severity of the concussion?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Sometimes I wonder if some "fans" would just be happier if we penciled in every game as a loss 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

What's Bills' contingency plan at C if Morse can't play?  Bodine?   Groy?  Long? 

 

Kalil suffered a serious neck injury in 2017.  It's entirely possible that he wasn't fully recovered during the 2018.  The Bills are counting on Trent Murphy being finally fully recovered from his knee injury after his lousy 2018 aren't they? 

 

The contingency plan is Long.  He was good in Washington, prompting the Jets to sign him to a good-sized deal.  He was injured last year but is healthy now.

 

As for Kalil, he started the final 5 games in 2017 and every game last year.  Suffice it to say he was healed and just bad because he's old and in decline.  There's no healing from that. 

 

And the Bills are hoping Trent Murphy is healed.  But they have Shaq Lawson if he's not.  However Murphy isn't old.

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If I was a neutral fan, I won’t touch the Bills-Jets game.  IMO, they are basically the same team.  I could imagine anything happening.  I will say if we win that game, that would be an amazing sign for the rest of the season. 

They are not the same team......having a sub par offensive line makes all the difference in the world

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

They are not the same team......having a sub par offensive line makes all the difference in the world

 

Yup.  Not to mention the Bills have an amazing secondary.

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The contingency plan is Long.  He was good in Washington, prompting the Jets to sign him to a good-sized deal.  He was injured last year but is healthy now.

 

As for Kalil, he started the final 5 games in 2017 and every game last year.  Suffice it to say he was healed and just bad because he's old and in decline.  There's no healing from that. 

 

And the Bills are hoping Trent Murphy is healed.  But they have Shaq Lawson if he's not.  However Murphy isn't old.

 

The center that the Jests didn't think was even good enough to be their backup?   Why should we think he'd be better than Bodine or Groy? 

 

And the Jests are hoping that Ryan Kalil is better than what they have currently at center just like the Bills are hoping that Trent Murphy is better than Lawson, but the Jests are "desperate" and the Bills are not.   Typical Bills fan logic.  Other teams -- especially division rivals --  ALWAYS make stupid personnel moves but the Bills NEVER do.  Got it. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

The center that the Jests didn't think was even good enough to be their backup?   Why should we think he'd be better than Bodine or Groy? 

 

And the Jests are hoping that Ryan Kalil is better than what they have currently at center just like the Bills are hoping that Trent Murphy is better than Lawson, but the Jests are "desperate" and the Bills are not.   Typical Bills fan logic.  Other teams -- especially division rivals --  ALWAYS make stupid personnel moves but the Bills NEVER do.  Got it. 

 

Again they had to pay Long a $3M bonus 3 days after the SB.  Probably figured they could release him and re-sign him on the cheap.  And looking back I'll bet they wish they'd kept him instead of having to coax an old player out of retirement, especially one who hasn't been good or healthy for the past 3 years.

[Fan in San Diego]

19 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  Not to mention the Bills have an amazing secondary.

The Bills had the second ranked defense last year. You would never know it though with our record last year.

 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

The Bills had the second ranked defense last year. You would never know it though with our record last year.

 

That's why you need a complete team.

[Punching Bag]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:36 AM, ScottLaw said:

Hopefully.

 

A lot of fans seem to be penciling opening day in as an easy victory for the Bills. I'm confused as to why. 

 

Because they are not happier when Bills lose?  I can see why you would be confused about that.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[PetermansRedemption]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

 

Solid signing ??

[YoloinOhio]

8.4 million

[RiotAct]

OMG