Book tells of up-and-down negotiations that led to Bills stadium lease deal

[dwight in philly]

More "inside NYS politics" not something to :"enlighten the masses" with , especially when Polancarz had a go to guy in negotiations that is now incarcerated.. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, dwight in philly said:

More "inside NYS politics" not something to :"enlighten the masses" with , especially when Polancarz had a go to guy in negotiations that is now incarcerated.. 

 

...LMAO.... thought the same thing...a politician writing a book.....HAS TO BE gospel........

[dwight in philly]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...LMAO.... thought the same thing...a politician writing a book.....HAS TO BE gospel........

Exactly! and it is (re) election time for him come september. GOSPEL for sure! 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's generally believed that Littman received a % of the team sale.......likely due to ownership stock given.......thus he had a personal, vested interest in maximizing the sale price.

 

I don't doubt Ralph preferred the team be kept in Buffalo...........he wanted more than anything to be remembered.........hence allowing the stadium to be named after him while he was still living?............. and he'd be totally forgotten by fans in a new city.............my guess is that he was open to the $400K relocation fee by then because he and Littman had already extracted about that out of the player payroll during the drought to cover inheritance tax concerns..........which became moot when the sales price became double what it would have been about 5 years earlier.

 

 

If I'm not mistaken there was no inheritance tax from the sale of the Bills because the proceeds from the sale went into a charitable foundation thus avoiding the inheritance tax on that sale altogether. Jack Kent Cook upon his death had the Redskins sold with the money going into a scholarship fund that also resulted in  his estate not paying an inheritance tax on the sale of the team.  

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Littman seemed like a little turd who didn't care about the Bills or the fans; he was a bean counter who wanted to get paid...a lot.  Not surprised given how tight fisted he was while in the front office.

I am sure his bonuses are tied to team bonuses and if team was sold he was going to make a lot of money.

I am sure he will be crap throwing monkey on this issue.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...yes Ralph got public credit for the $400 mil relo penalty, BUT who launched the press?.......I seriously doubt it was his family or Foundation...it was media driven I believe........yes the Estate got paid, but he wrote his Will to read that his ENTIRE $1.2 billion fortune must be wholly donated to charity within 20 years after his death...still remains an honorable man IMO...

I agree. I am not one of those fans that insults Ralph Wilson all the time. We wouldn't even have a team without him.

[Phil The Thrill]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Poloncarz could have been lying about Littman's reaction.  He's a politician you know.  And if Littman did indeed get angry, perhaps it was a "after all Ralph Wilson has done to remain in the area for decades?" kind of thing?

 

If anything, MP is debunking the whole loyalty narrative about Ralph and Buffalo.  Seems like he maybe didn’t care as much as we thought he did.

 

like you said though, he’s a career politician, so who knows?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So much for the "sainted Ralph kept the Bills in WNY" narrative

[Phil The Thrill]

28 minutes ago, MJS said:

I agree. I am not one of those fans that insults Ralph Wilson all the time. We wouldn't even have a team without him.

 

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...yes Ralph got public credit for the $400 mil relo penalty, BUT who launched the press?.......I seriously doubt it was his family or Foundation...it was media driven I believe........yes the Estate got paid, but he wrote his Will to read that his ENTIRE $1.2 billion fortune must be wholly donated to charity within 20 years after his death...still remains an honorable man IMO...

 

The degree that Ralph was dedicated to the Bills staying local after his death has always been uncertain though

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

If anything, MP is debunking the whole loyalty narrative about Ralph and Buffalo.  Seems like he maybe didn’t care as much as we thought he did.

 

like you said though, he’s a career politician, so who knows?

 

Like I said before, Ralph could have said "no" to the relocation fee.  Or moved the team to any of the cities other teams have moved/the NFL has expanded into anytime during his ownership.

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't think Littman could do anything about it.  If Littman cared about the Bills staying in Buffalo, he wouldn't have been so surprised, upset, or even minded this fee was attached to the deal.  

 

I don’t think the owners really care if players smoke pot. But they are going to get something in return if and when it changes. You play EVERY angle you have. 

 

Yes, Ralph was no longer deeply involved and pounding his fist on the table, but his general wishes were well known to his people, and they managed the situation accordingly. 

 

The Bills are still in WNY, appear to be staying....and I don’t have to know all the details or argue about how it happened.

 

GO BILLS! 

[Punching Bag]

36 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

If anything, MP is debunking the whole loyalty narrative about Ralph and Buffalo.  Seems like he maybe didn’t care as much as we thought he did.

 

like you said though, he’s a career politician, so who knows?

 

A career politician up for reelection.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

A career politician up for reelection.

 

 

How would this get him re-elected?

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t think the owners really care if players smoke pot. But they are going to get something in return if and when it changes. You play EVERY angle you have. 

 

 

I disagree on this matter.  Most of the owners are old and just because current generation pushes for it does not mean they will change their minds on something they thought was wrong.  If they DO change it I agree it will be something NFLPA has to bargain for and give up to get it.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I disagree on this matter.  Most of the owners are old and just because current generation pushes for it does not mean they will change their minds on something they thought was wrong.  If they DO change it I agree it will be something NFLPA has to bargain for and give up to get it.

 

We can agree to disagree. They are smart people, and BILLIONAIRES for a reason. They don’t care about weed.....if they get something in return. They know it’s just one card they have to play. Nothing more. They may even know the tide is turning against them if they know the other options are more opioid use. The value of that chip may decrease over time. But we’ll see. 

[17years&waiting]

I'm amazed that people are taking a politican's word as absolute truth.  Especially because the people that could dispute this story are: deceased (RCW) and discredited (Russ Brandon) or the same political party (Cuomo/Schumer).  

 

Isn't there a potentially competitive Congressional seat up in Erie County next year?  Build some street credit, try to establish yourself as a hero, and then try to win the seat.  

 

Sorry, I don't trust politicians.  Regardless of political party.  Especially not politicians whose only career work is in government.  

[Happy]

29 minutes ago, 17years&waiting said:

I'm amazed that people are taking a politican's word as absolute truth.  Especially because the people that could dispute this story are: deceased (RCW) and discredited (Russ Brandon) or the same political party (Cuomo/Schumer).  

 

Isn't there a potentially competitive Congressional seat up in Erie County next year?  Build some street credit, try to establish yourself as a hero, and then try to win the seat.  

 

Sorry, I don't trust politicians.  Regardless of political party.  Especially not politicians whose only career work is in government.  

 

I don't trust politicians, either.  If, for example, the $400 million dollar relocation clause and negotiations didn't go as described in the book, Littman (and probably lawyers aware of the matter) could say something about that to the Buffalo News, Rochester D&C, etc.  Poloncarz would be called out, so there probably is a least a bit of truth in the book.

[LSHMEAB]

38 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We can agree to disagree. They are smart people, and BILLIONAIRES for a reason. They don’t care about weed.....if they get something in return. They know it’s just one card they have to play. Nothing more. They may even know the tide is turning against them if they know the other options are more opioid use. The value of that chip may decrease over time. But we’ll see. 

Yeah. I'm thinking Kraft and Jones aren't too worried about weed.

[clearwater cadet]

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

 

 

And then many thanks to those Rogers kids that didn't want to spend their found millions on an NFL team.

[clearwater cadet]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And then many thanks to those Rogers kids that didn't want to spend their found millions on an NFL team.

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

 

it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale.  I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said.  I believe the lesgue wanted it as well.   Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion.

[Ol Dirty B]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

 

OMG...  WAT?

 

It's actually something that has been theorized for probably like 20, 30 years now. However, I don't see it ever cited as something that will happen within the next 10 years. I think we are more likely 50 years away from that stuff having a strong impact on the local economy, it it ever does.

 

Also, when these bigger markets feel a pinch who knows what kind of technology or solutions that will be developed by the area facing a crunch. They surely aren't just going to go belly up and say oh well.

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

 

it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale.  I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said.  I believe the lesgue wanted it as well.   Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion.

What evidence do you have that he "intended" to sell the team to Rogers? He never did and he lived a LONG life. I think Wilson could be a bit stingy with his money, but his legacy was the Buffalo Bills. Based on what I've observed, he was more concerned with keeping his money than amassing more. 

[BuffaloBill]

11 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

 

it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale.  I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said.  I believe the lesgue wanted it as well.   Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion.

 

Truth be told, Toronto is better able, financially, to support  and NFL franchise.  However, the NFL has forgotten in its quest for revenue that there is a fan base that matters.  Buffalo has the most loyal fan base in the league.

[clearwater cadet]

23 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What evidence do you have that he "intended" to sell the team to Rogers? He never did and he lived a LONG life. I think Wilson could be a bit stingy with his money, but his legacy was the Buffalo Bills. Based on what I've observed, he was more concerned with keeping his money than amassing more. 

No evidence, like I said, I maybe wrong, just what I believed.  one persons opinion.

[2ForMacAdoo]

6 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

"Gaining a non-relocation agreement, which included a $400 million penalty "bomb" if the team were to move, was a sticking point. Instead of that agreement, the team wanted lease language in which the Bills promised to reimburse the state and county stadium for renovation costs if the team moved."

 

I'd say it was a little of both, since the Bills' proposal would have included a $210M relocation penalty.

 

 

So, in the original quote, it cites the $400 Billion ("B" as in Bills) and in the next paragraph $400 Million ("M" as in Matt Milano). Quite a difference. I haven't read the book but I can't imagine Ralph EVER would have agreed to a $400 BILLION non-relocation penalty. On the other hand, $400 Million doesn't seem like that much at all if you're a multi-billionaire. If you're an immensely wealthy businessman and the team would be worth 3-4 times its value in WNY if it were relocated to LosAngeles, for example, $400 Million would seem like peanuts, no? 

[TheFunPolice]

2 hours ago, clearwater cadet said:

Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph.

 

it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale.  I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said.  I believe the lesgue wanted it as well.   Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion.

IMO the entire Toronto series was about Rogers laying the groundwork to move the team to Toronto. I don't doubt for a second that Rogers expected to outlive Wilson and be in perfect position to buy the team.

 

Once Rogers passed away I believe his $$ was tied up in a family trust, making it impossible for his heirs to access enough to buy the team. I think he never thought it would matter because he was so much younger than Ralph, but once Rogers died the whole plan to move the team to Toronto pretty much died as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

So, in the original quote, it cites the $400 Billion ("B" as in Bills) and in the next paragraph $400 Million ("M" as in Matt Milano). Quite a difference. I haven't read the book but I can't imagine Ralph EVER would have agreed to a $400 BILLION non-relocation penalty. On the other hand, $400 Million doesn't seem like that much at all if you're a multi-billionaire. If you're an immensely wealthy businessman and the team would be worth 3-4 times its value in WNY if it were relocated to LosAngeles, for example, $400 Million would seem like peanuts, no? 

I’m certain the B was a mistake, it was $400 million. It may not seem like much, but it was apparently a strong enough deterrent to do it’s intended job. T Pegs paid 1.2 billion for the Bills, so it’s one third of the price paid. Mere mortals may think that would be chump change, but we don’t know how an actual billionaire would think about that situation. Fortunately for Bills fans, it had at least some effect on the bidding process. 

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

So, in the original quote, it cites the $400 Billion ("B" as in Bills) and in the next paragraph $400 Million ("M" as in Matt Milano). Quite a difference. I haven't read the book but I can't imagine Ralph EVER would have agreed to a $400 BILLION non-relocation penalty. On the other hand, $400 Million doesn't seem like that much at all if you're a multi-billionaire. If you're an immensely wealthy businessman and the team would be worth 3-4 times its value in WNY if it were relocated to LosAngeles, for example, $400 Million would seem like peanuts, no? 

 

The team was appraised at around $1B, if I recall correctly, so adding a $400M penalty essentially raises the price by 40%. Maybe it would be worth more in a different market, but that's a pretty big risk, especially when everyone knew the Pegulas wanted it and they were willing to overpay.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, 17years&waiting said:

I'm amazed that people are taking a politican's word as absolute truth.  Especially because the people that could dispute this story are: deceased (RCW) and discredited (Russ Brandon) or the same political party (Cuomo/Schumer).  

 

Isn't there a potentially competitive Congressional seat up in Erie County next year?  Build some street credit, try to establish yourself as a hero, and then try to win the seat.  

 

Sorry, I don't trust politicians.  Regardless of political party.  Especially not politicians whose only career work is in government.  

 

You know who I trust less than politicians? Billionaires.

[May Day 10]

6 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

The team was appraised at around $1B, if I recall correctly, so adding a $400M penalty essentially raises the price by 40%. Maybe it would be worth more in a different market, but that's a pretty big risk, especially when everyone knew the Pegulas wanted it and they were willing to overpay.

 

Also, add in the NFL relocation fee, as well as the price of a new stadium.

 

I also recall there to be some wording about not being allowed to even talk stadium anywhere but erie county, which made it extra sticky.

Edited July 16, 2019 by May Day 10

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

I agree with all of this.

You just do not drop a 60-65k seat stadium into the downtown area where nothing of that size presently exits now, and think some parking decks and widening a couple of roads will be all that's needed.

 

If we assume the economy improves and there is population growth, so will the demand for real estate and housing. Land acquisition will become even more problematic.

 

 

Then how on Earth does every other city with a downtown stadium manage to exist? Some cities have two stadiums and an arena downtown. What keeps Cleveland from sinking into Lake Erie putting all three downtown?

 

What is it about downtown Buffalo that makes it so unusable as a stadium site? Was there a transportation crisis when they built Pilot Field?

4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You know who I trust less than politicians? Billionaires.

 

You voted for one.

Edited July 16, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You voted for one.

 

Because the other option was SO unpalatable as to make the choice easy.

 

[May Day 10]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Then how on Earth does every other city with a downtown stadium manage to exist? Some cities have two stadiums and an arena downtown. What keeps Cleveland from sinking into Lake Erie putting all three downtown?

 

What is it about downtown Buffalo that makes it so unusable as a stadium site? Was there a transportation crisis when they built Pilot Field?

 

Have you ever tried to leave a Sabres game when everyone stays until the end? 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Have you ever tried to leave a Sabres game when everyone stays until the end? 

 

Every game I attend. I'm on the Metro rail within 10 minutes. What's your point?

Edited July 16, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Every game I attend. I'm on the Metro rail within 10 minutes. What's your point?

 

What's the deal with the Metro rail, is it more than one line?

 

[May Day 10]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Every game I attend. I'm on the Metro rail within 10 minutes. What's your point?

 

Oh.  Being in a car, it can take over an hour to get out of downtown.  This is why people bolt from that arena all through the 3rd period, even in a close game.  Maybe if they connect metro rail with Grand Island, it could work...

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Every game I attend. I'm on the Metro rail within 10 minutes. What's your point?

 

 

Good for you. For the thousands of people that drive, it sucks.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

What's the deal with the Metro rail, is it more than one line?

 

 

It's a light rail/subway that runs from the arena to UB North campus. It's just one line though they talk about adding more forever.

 

But it's free riding above ground so I usually park by Fountain Square and ride to the arena, then ride back. Is it crowded? Sure, but so is any large event.

2 minutes ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said:

 

 

Good for you. For the thousands of people that drive, it sucks.

 

A little planning solves a lot of problems. See above.

[Mr Info]

11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

What's the deal with the Metro rail, is it more than one line?

 

 

I see Metro Rail is receiving $100M in improvements...interesting.

https://www.rtands.com/passenger/rapid-transit-light-rail/buffalos-metro-rail-100-million-improvements/