YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Interesting stuff to chew on if you Iike to chew on stuff and are counting the days until camp like yours truly 9 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Saw this. Was thinking about posting it on social media for all my friends that think Allen is trash. But then I realized it's better that I keep this one under wraps, for fantasy football victory purposes. ? 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 do we have to?? For me, all I need is "the eye test" to compare these two. LJ is TT 2.0 . LJ is a "better"* passer than TT (* meaning he is not afraid to pass) JA is a passer who isn't afraid to run. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Allen is a better QB than Jackson. Let’s set the bar higher than that this season though. Looking forward to making some favorable comparisons to some real QBs this season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: do we have to?? For me, all I need is "the eye test" to compare these two. LJ is TT 2.0 . LJ is a "better"* passer than TT (* meaning he is not afraid to pass) JA is a passer who isn't afraid to run. I think Lamar can pass. He threw it all over the field on college. He struggled at times last year when he couldn’t read the coverages. I think he has *potential* to be a real “dual threat” - my concern is that he’s going to end up like RG3. I don’t think his frame can sustain what makes him “special.” I also think he’s not very intelligent based on some of the stuff that has been reported. That can inhibit him to evolve as an nfl QB 7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Allen is a better QB than Jackson. Let’s set the bar higher than that this season though. Looking forward to making some favorable comparisons to some real QBs this season. The comparison is being made because they are both 2nd year QBs who are “dual” threats running and passing. No one knows who will be the better QB yet. Edited July 11, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: do we have to?? For me, all I need is "the eye test" to compare these two. LJ is TT 2.0 . LJ is a "better"* passer than TT (* meaning he is not afraid to pass) JA is a passer who isn't afraid to run. Got to agree with this. Results for this comparison will be clearer by end of this year. Let’s see how Jackson does when he has to throw the ball to win the game. Allen needs to show he can consistently throw to win games. Difference is Allen got better last year as the year went on, I am not sure we can say that about Jackson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 They are both young QBs with promising upsides. Do we really have to split hairs and decide who is better right now? It will play out over the next ~10 years.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) That's a great breakdown and basically confirms what I thought . Jackson is a very good system QB and is perfect for a Greg Roman scheme. The Chargers did a wonderful job in the WC game last year exposing Jackson, taking away his rushing ability and in turn the Raven offense was useless. I just don't see him improving much as a passer at this stage. I'd even go as far as saying Tyrod Taylor is a more well rounded QB than Jackson. As far as compared to Allen, it isn't even close. Jackson is just so limited in the pass game Edited July 11, 2019 by JerseyBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think Lamar can pass. He threw it all over the field on college. He struggled at times last year when he couldn’t read the coverages. I think he has *potential* to be a real “dual threat” - my concern is that he’s going to end up like RG3. I don’t think his frame can sustain what makes him “special.” I also think he’s not very intelligent based on some of the stuff that has been reported. That can inhibit him to evolve as an nfl QB The comparison is being made because they are both 2nd year QBs who are “dual” threats running and passing. No one knows who will be the better QB yet. I get the reasoning for comparing the two. I just am not a fan of LJ. I’ve been upfront about where I think JA needs to improve, but at least he has a chance to do so. I see LJ as too limited to be successful for any length of time in the NFL as anything other than a backup. I’ll give my appraisal of LJ one caveat: the NFL game is changing and he might be serviceable in it. That’s his ceiling IMO though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said: Got to agree with this. Results for this comparison will be clearer by end of this year. Let’s see how Jackson does when he has to throw the ball to win the game. Allen needs to show he can consistently throw to win games. Difference is Allen got better last year as the year went on, I am not sure we can say that about Jackson. Lamar played really well when he went into LA late in the year and beat the Chargers... that was a really good D. They shut him down 3 weeks later in the playoffs (until they let him right back in the game when they dialed it down in the 2nd half) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Lamar Jackson, like so many other run first QB is quickly diagnosed how to defend. How did he do in the playoffs? J Allen certainly has some questions about his ability to be an accurate NFL QB but there is no doubt that he has tremendous upside. J Allen may turn into a great QB, I dont think Lamar ever will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: Lamar Jackson, like so many other run first QB is quickly diagnosed how to defend. How did he do in the playoffs? J Allen certainly has some questions about his ability to be an accurate NFL QB but there is no doubt that he has tremendous upside. J Allen may turn into a great QB, I dont think Lamar ever will. I’m not really defending Lamar but for accuracy sake, I think some of the playoff game was on coaching. The Chargers were really thin at LB and has just played Lamar 3 weeks earlier - they used a totally different D that had 5 DBs and safeties playing LB as a recall. I just don’t think the ravens were prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 This is actually literally racist. You only like Allen better than Jackson cause he’s white. Such racism. Almost as racist as benching a black qb for a white qb after the starter throws for 57 whole yards!! This is racist! *sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Allen is a much better quarterback than Jackson. I live outside Baltimore and Jackson is very limited in the passing game and has issues holding onto the ball. CLE shut down the run game in the 2nd half of the season finale and SD shut it down for the entire playoff game. D-coordinators will have all offseason to stop the run, so if Jackson cannot expand the passing game beyond hitting TEs down the seam, he may be Tim Tebow 2.0. I would put 8 in the box, take away the short middle in the passing game and force Jackson to throw deep outs and down the field because I don’t think he can do it. Their receiving core will be one of the weaker units in the league which will not help things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 44 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: do we have to?? For me, all I need is "the eye test" to compare these two. LJ is TT 2.0 . LJ is a "better"* passer than TT (* meaning he is not afraid to pass) JA is a passer who isn't afraid to run. Both hold the ball too long just like Tyrod. Allen needs to improve the rhythm passing, and stop with the hero ball at times. There's a lot to improve and a lot to like. The o-line makes his 2018 season kind of hard to evaluate, as do the lack of consistent WR threats. I hope to see some pretty stark improvements this year. LJ had a ton of designed runs like kaepernick - that typically works when you drive the ball down the field more. You open up deep outs, fly routes, etc by forcing them to keep extra guys in the box. Greg Roman is the O-coordinator... who was coordinator with Alex Smith, Kaep, Tyrod etc. He's likely going to continue running LJ at least 10 times a game, and hes going to emphasize hitting receivers outside the numbers. LJs sack% last year was almost 9 and i expect it to hover around 9-10 next year as Roman typically seems to coach a protect the ball type of offense. He also struggled in the playoff game when his team was behind and he was forced to take out the read-option stuff. 7 sacks, 1 pick, 3 fumbles. Also something to keep in mind - he only threw 3 picks and had a 1.8% INT rate... but he fumbled 12 times and 3 more times in the playoff game. That is a LOT of fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 51 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: The comparison is being made because they are both 2nd year QBs who are “dual” threats running and passing. No one knows who will be the better QB yet. I do! Josh Allen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) On 7/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, whatdrought said: This is actually literally racist. You only like Allen better than Jackson cause he’s white. Such racism. Almost as racist as benching a black qb for a white qb after the starter throws for 57 whole yards!! This is racist! *sarcasm Nike will be contacting you soon with a job offer.? Its really not that confusing @Logic and @ddaryl Is it snowing? Edited July 12, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I wanted absolutely nothing to do with Lamar Jackson in last year's draft. Based on the leaked Bills QB board, it looks like they felt the same. Seen that movie, bought the t-shirt. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Nike will be contacting you soon with a job offer.? Sweet. I have some ideas about how the colors red white and blue are racist and a throw back to slavery and need to permanently be removed from all color wheels. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Logic said: I wanted absolutely nothing to do with Lamar Jackson in last year's draft. Based on the leaked Bills QB board, it looks like they felt the same. Seen that movie, bought the t-shirt. No thanks. I’m not surprised he wasn’t on their board. I think Beane likes prototypes in terms of size and Lamar isn’t that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) All kidding aside, Jackson could take a step this year and improve his passing and be a good QB. I hate the narrative that says he will, but Allen wont because of all the same damn issues that Jackson has. It's ridiculous. They're both boom or bust prospects, but Allen's ceiling is a lot higher than Jackson. Edited July 11, 2019 by whatdrought 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I really can’t compare the two jackson had a playoff team around him and still was not as good allen carried a bad offense on his shoulders 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, YoloinOhio said: I’m not surprised he wasn’t on their board. I think Beane likes prototypes in terms of size and Lamar isn’t that. Yeah. I also think that by going through the Tyrod Taylor experience, they saw firsthand the limitations of a quarterback whose primary skill is running and whose passing skills are suspect. Ironically enough, that is now the critique of Josh Allen, until he proves otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Eagerly awaiting certain posters in this thread. Baited breath. No really. ***GREAT*** find, good bot! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Lamar Jackson was a waste of a draft pick and will be out of the league as an NFL QB in short in a few years.Woof 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said: They are both young QBs with promising upsides. Do we really have to split hairs and decide who is better right now? It will play out over the next ~10 years.... People made up their minds the day they were both drafted. Hell even prior to that with some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Eagerly awaiting certain posters in this thread. Baited breath. No really. ***GREAT*** find, good bot! Not sure if spelling error or double entendre... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not really defending Lamar but for accuracy sake, I think some of the playoff game was on coaching. The Chargers were really thin at LB and has just played Lamar 3 weeks earlier - they used a totally different D that had 5 DBs and safeties playing LB as a recall. I just don’t think the ravens were prepared. the chargers were the first and only team to be able to see Jackson twice last year. I think there might be something to that.... maybe not. but I think its worth mentioning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not sure if spelling error or double entendre... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, dneveu said: Both hold the ball too long just like Tyrod. Allen needs to improve the rhythm passing, and stop with the hero ball at times. There's a lot to improve and a lot to like. The o-line makes his 2018 season kind of hard to evaluate, as do the lack of consistent WR threats. I hope to see some pretty stark improvements this year. LJ had a ton of designed runs like kaepernick - that typically works when you drive the ball down the field more. You open up deep outs, fly routes, etc by forcing them to keep extra guys in the box. Greg Roman is the O-coordinator... who was coordinator with Alex Smith, Kaep, Tyrod etc. He's likely going to continue running LJ at least 10 times a game, and hes going to emphasize hitting receivers outside the numbers. LJs sack% last year was almost 9 and i expect it to hover around 9-10 next year as Roman typically seems to coach a protect the ball type of offense. He also struggled in the playoff game when his team was behind and he was forced to take out the read-option stuff. 7 sacks, 1 pick, 3 fumbles. Also something to keep in mind - he only threw 3 picks and had a 1.8% INT rate... but he fumbled 12 times and 3 more times in the playoff game. That is a LOT of fumbles. I agree in a sense JA held the ball reading the field then trying to scramble when he didn't see anything TT held the ball too long waiting for the perfect pass (usually after the player stopped and turned towards TT) As I recall, and I will also state that I didn't see a whole hell of a lot of the Ravens, but I did see just enough to see he had designed run plays more than pass plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: I agree in a sense JA held the ball reading the field then trying to scramble when he didn't see anything TT held the ball too long waiting for the perfect pass (usually after the player stopped and turned towards TT) As I recall, and I will also state that I didn't see a whole hell of a lot of the Ravens, but I did see just enough to see he had designed run plays more than pass plays There was a stat somewhere on how many more percentage of LJ’s runs were designed runs vs Allen’s which were scrambling from pressure. It was significant. The difference with TT is that he was still holding onto the ball in his 7th year in the league and hadn’t evolved. Edited July 11, 2019 by YoloinOhio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 We shall know the results before the year is out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: All kidding aside, Jackson could take a step this year and improve his passing and be a good QB. I hate the narrative that says he will, but Allen wont because of all the same damn issues that Jackson has. It's ridiculous. They're both boom or bust prospects, but Allen's ceiling is a lot higher than Jackson. If he developes he will be a nightmare for defenses to deal with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Nike will be contacting you soon with a job offer.? Its really not that confusing @Logic and @ddaryl actually it really is. Unless you think Nike shouldn't protect themselves from a large negative fall out which is just bad business decision making. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I had Allen below Jackson as a draft evaluation but that was because I vastly underestimated Josh's legs or else I'd have had them right there together. After watching every throw both has made in the NFL Josh is clearly ahead. 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: There was a stat somewhere on how many more percentage of LJ’s runs were designed runs vs Allen’s which were scrambling from pressure. It was significant. The difference with TT is that he was still holding onto the ball in his 7th year in the league and hadn’t evolved. Still holding it in his 7th year in the league from a drop back taken in week 1 of his rookie season. Don't worry though he will see a pass he likes soon. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I had Allen below Jackson as a draft evaluation but that was because I vastly underestimated Josh's legs or else I'd have had them right there together. After watching every throw both has made in the NFL Josh is clearly ahead. Still holding it in his 7th year in the league from a drop back taken in week 1 of his rookie season. Don't worry though he will see a pass he likes soon. I don’t know who needs to hear this, but Robert Woods is open. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I don’t know who needs to hear this, but Robert Woods is open. Not quite open enough. Tyrod has had a think about it and is scrambling out of bounds for 6 yards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Interesting stuff to chew on if you Iike to chew on stuff and are counting the days until camp like yours truly ....interesting.....there were TBD pundits fine with taking Jackson at #12......hard pass for me...just do not see it....could be woefully wrong, but I see "one read and run".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Allen is a better QB than Jackson Probably, but can't really say that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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