Christian Wilkins Round 1

[Teddy KGB]

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shaq is 24 years old with 3 seasons in the NFL under his belt.........Wilkins will turn 24 during his rookie season.

 

What kind of prospect "false-read" would Shaq have presented if he were to have played a couple more seasons beating on college kids at Clemson?

 

It's a consideration.

 

Wilkins production leveled off after his sophomore season............we've seen Shaq only marginally improve over his first 3 seasons.........sometimes the ceiling ain't the roof.

 

 

 

Didn’t he kick sabans tuchus? 

[Solomon Grundy]

Haven't you guys seen enough of Clemson players underachieving for the Bills? Spiller, Watkins, Shaq, Ray-Ray, Perry Tuttle, Chris Hairston. The only guy who produced for the Bills from that school was Jerry Butler

[Doc]

With Kyle's retirement and Wawrow's announcement that he could see the Bills trading up, I think they do trade up, for Oliver.

[Bangarang]

12 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Haven't you guys seen enough of Clemson players underachieving for the Bills? Spiller, Watkins, Shaq, Ray-Ray, Perry Tuttle, Chris Hairston. The only guy who produced for the Bills from that school was Jerry Butler

 

Lol at putting Ray Ray and Hairston on that list. 

[akcash]

Not even thinking of drafting this guy until the third or 4th round. Hes good at shooting gaps and thats about it. He is average as hell against NFL caliber lineman. Gives up alot of ground in the run game. He has some flashy plays but it seems like hes taking advantage of mental breakdowns of guys who won't be playing in the NFL. 

6 hours ago, billspro said:

 

I don’t think you have to worry. Beane seems to be the type to swing for an elite prospect. I think we are going Metcalf.

I'm warming up to Metcalf. At 9 still feels kind of dirty but I think in the end it can work.

[OldTimer1960]

23 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Not at #9 but he's a terrific kid and I'd love to have him on my team. He's a potential Pro Bowler.

??? You would not draft a “potential Pro Bowler” at pick 9?  What are you expecting- a first ballot HOFer?

[PIZ]

I think I'm on board with this.  The guy is a beast.

 

 

 

[Mat68]

 Call me crazy.  I would rather have Lawerance than Wilkins.  You get him to 330 or 340 you might have the next Wilfort.  

[thunderingsquid]

Onward Christian soldier.

[GunnerBill]

On 3/29/2019 at 3:59 PM, billspro said:

One of the safest prospects in the draft. I would be happy to have him. 

 

That sums it up for me. He is one of the safest picks the Bills (or any other team) could make. 

 

I like him a lot and I am convinced he will be a starter in the league for a long time. Whether the positional value is there for a non pass rushing DT in the top 15 of the draft I am less sure. I think he will go around the middle of the first. Atlanta at #14 possibly? 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

On 3/29/2019 at 4:05 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shaq is 24 years old with 3 seasons in the NFL under his belt.........Wilkins will turn 24 during his rookie season.

 

What kind of prospect "false-read" would Shaq have presented if he were to have played a couple more seasons beating on college kids at Clemson?

 

It's a consideration.

 

Wilkins production leveled off after his sophomore season............we've seen Shaq only marginally improve over his first 3 seasons.........sometimes the ceiling ain't the roof.

 

 

His production leveled off? Had more tackles and sacks the following two years. Sure he was down in tackles for loss but that shot up

last season. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:27 AM, Pete said:

He has Bills dna.  Leader on Clemson team, and was unstoppable against Alabama.  I like him a lot after a trade down.  I prefer Oliver, but a beve of 2nd,3rd and future picks I would trade down.  My mantra is stockpile 2nd and 3rd rounders!  

how many draft picks do you think will make the roster? 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

how many draft picks do you think will make the roster? 

I am guessing 5-7(including UDFA). May the best man win.  My plan would be to drop back from 9, get compensated generously.  Than trade back up- stockpiling too 100 picks.  The Colts had 4 second rounders last draft.  That was a key factor in their resurgence 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

how many draft picks do you think will make the roster? 

Don’t you think we can improve upon Vlad, McDermont, DiMarco,  Murphy, Anderson, Ray-Ray,  Peco, Thompson, Marlowe, etc?  Younger, cheaper, more talented and versatile- that sounds great to me!

Edited March 31, 2019 by Pete

[PlayoffsPlease]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

Don’t you think we can improve upon Vlad, McDermont, DiMarco,  Murphy, Anderson, Ray-Ray,  Peco, Thompson, Marlowe, etc?  Younger, cheaper, more talented and versatile- that sounds great to me!

Look at actual championship teams. They are based on having 5 or 6 elite talents, and surrounding them with solid players.   The Bills have only one potential elite player on offense.  Adding an elite tackle or weapon is more important than filling holes in the long run. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Look at actual championship teams. They are based on having 5 or 6 elite talents, and surrounding them with solid players.   The Bills have only one potential elite player on offense.  Adding an elite tackle or weapon is more important than filling holes in the long run. 

Elite players can be found any round(Darius Leonard in the 2nd round last year for example)  There is no guarantee a first round pick will be better than a second round pick.  It's basic probability- more picks increase odds of drafting an elite player

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

His production leveled off? Had more tackles and sacks the following two years. Sure he was down in tackles for loss but that shot up

last season. 

 

Is it REALLY an over-generalization saying that 24 tackles as a sophomore and 25 tackles two seasons later as a senior is "leveling off" statistically?

 

Or how about 13 TFL as a sophomore versus 14 TFL as a senior? 

 

And yes.......his TFL's declined to 9 as a junior......so that's bad........ and his sacks went from 3.5 sophomore year to 5.5 as a senior.......so that's good.......but those are very modest changes in otherwise flat production.

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

On 3/30/2019 at 3:03 PM, OldTimer1960 said:

??? You would not draft a “potential Pro Bowler” at pick 9?  What are you expecting- a first ballot HOFer?

 

Depends on who's there but I think Ed Oliver is potential All Pro/DPOY status so he's my #1 choice. 

[Lurker]

He definitely sounds like a McD kind of guy...

 

https://www.colts.com/news/colts-at-the-combine-whoever-drafts-christian-wilkins-is-getting-a-culture-chang

 

"I just really want teams to realize that if they get me then they're investing in something bigger than just football. They're investing in so much more. The ability I have to not only dominate on the field and be effective on the field, but to also just improve culture — whether it's good, bad, ugly, different, (I’ll) just improve culture,” Wilkins said.

 

“I feel like ultimately I'm the kind of guy you want in the locker room, you want on your team, and you just want on the field with you, because I'm someone who's just extremely committed at being the best at my craft, and to my teammates just being the best player I can be,” Wilkins continued. “That's my goal, and that's what I plan to do on any team that I go to in the NFL."

[rodneykm]

He's simply got to be the guy. 

[blacklabel]

Solid player. Definitely has the characteristics McBeane look for in prospects. But if it came down to him or Oliver, I'm going Oliver simply because you can do more with him and McD loves versatility.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

He definitely sounds like a McD kind of guy...

 

https://www.colts.com/news/colts-at-the-combine-whoever-drafts-christian-wilkins-is-getting-a-culture-chang

 

"I just really want teams to realize that if they get me then they're investing in something bigger than just football. They're investing in so much more. The ability I have to not only dominate on the field and be effective on the field, but to also just improve culture — whether it's good, bad, ugly, different, (I’ll) just improve culture,” Wilkins said.

 

“I feel like ultimately I'm the kind of guy you want in the locker room, you want on your team, and you just want on the field with you, because I'm someone who's just extremely committed at being the best at my craft, and to my teammates just being the best player I can be,” Wilkins continued. “That's my goal, and that's what I plan to do on any team that I go to in the NFL."

 

 

 

Man you'd think he dominated the college football landscape with that bravado.

 

Sounds like A-Rod talking when he was acquired by the Yankees........but without the production to accompany it.

[OldTimer1960]

9 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Depends on who's there but I think Ed Oliver is potential All Pro/DPOY status so he's my #1 choice. 

I can see why many think so highly of Oliver - his quickness is undeniable and he appears to play very hard.  My concerns with Oliver are:

1. Height/length - he is not short, but below ideal height for the position and his arms are relatively short for the position as well

2. Weight - He is certainly strong, but he will be giving away 40 to 50 pounds to NFL offensive lineman.  Can he thrive giving up that much mass and for how long?  

3. Level of competition - Rice, Texas Southern, Tulsa, East Carolina, Navy, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Memphis and Army were all on the schedule in 2018.  On the flip-side, He didn’t have much talent around him on Houston to take opponent’s attention off him.

 

None of the above means that he isn’t a very good prospect nor that he can’t find great success in the NFL, but they are (IMHO) legitimate areas of concern when comparing him against other prospects.

 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:42 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Is it REALLY an over-generalization saying that 24 tackles as a sophomore and 25 tackles two seasons later as a senior is "leveling off" statistically?

 

Or how about 13 TFL as a sophomore versus 14 TFL as a senior? 

 

And yes.......his TFL's declined to 9 as a junior......so that's bad........ and his sacks went from 3.5 sophomore year to 5.5 as a senior.......so that's good.......but those are very modest changes in otherwise flat production.

 

Total tackles as a sophomore were 48 and had more tackles the following year and more sacks. His stats improved, albeit slightly but did improve. They did not level off. Historically compared with other DTS his statistics are very good. 

[John from Riverside]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:42 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Is it REALLY an over-generalization saying that 24 tackles as a sophomore and 25 tackles two seasons later as a senior is "leveling off" statistically?

 

Or how about 13 TFL as a sophomore versus 14 TFL as a senior? 

 

And yes.......his TFL's declined to 9 as a junior......so that's bad........ and his sacks went from 3.5 sophomore year to 5.5 as a senior.......so that's good.......but those are very modest changes in otherwise flat production.

 

Still a very good player.....especially in a trade down scenario.

[BADOLBILZ]

34 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Total tackles as a sophomore were 48 and had more tackles the following year and more sacks. His stats improved, albeit slightly but did improve. They did not level off. Historically compared with other DTS his statistics are very good. 

 

Slight improvement over a three year period.........like Christian Wilkins going from 24 tackles to 25 tackles...........or 13 TFL to 14 TFL..........IS leveling off.

 

I want to see a 23 year old senior college DT show marked improvement over his previous seasons...............if you are going to convince people that you are going to be a star in the NFL then you ought to be able to show some trajectory at the college level...........a lack of that raises questions about a player reaching their ceiling.

 

You want to talk yourself into a player because you are living in a fantasy land where players who try hard and say the right things is why a team wins Super Bowls...............and yet these were the same guys that were trying to acquire Antonio Brown 3 weeks ago.............fortunately they know they need some big difference makers even if you don't.

 

My advice.......scale back the indignance...........you don't need to make yourself look incapable of understanding simple concepts.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 3/29/2019 at 8:27 AM, Pete said:

He has Bills dna.  Leader on Clemson team, and was unstoppable against Alabama.  I like him a lot after a trade down.  I prefer Oliver, but a beve of 2nd,3rd and future picks I would trade down.  My mantra is stockpile 2nd and 3rd rounders!  

Prefer Quinnen but know he will be gone. We'll probably take Oliver and Wilkins only on a trade down in the 15-20 range.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Slight improvement over a three year period.........like Christian Wilkins going from 24 tackles to 25 tackles...........or 13 TFL to 14 TFL..........IS leveling off.

 

I want to see a 23 year old senior college DT show marked improvement over his previous seasons...............if you are going to convince people that you are going to be a star in the NFL then you ought to be able to show some trajectory at the college level...........a lack of that raises questions about a player reaching their ceiling.

 

You want to talk yourself into a player because you are living in a fantasy land where players who try hard and say the right things is why a team wins Super Bowls...............and yet these were the same guys that were trying to acquire Antonio Brown 3 weeks ago.............fortunately they know they need some big difference makers even if you don't.

 

My advice.......scale back the indignance...........you don't need to make yourself look incapable of understanding simple concepts.

This guy just feels like John McCargo. Not saying he's gonna bust and he was more productive than McCargo to be sure, but I'm dubious of a guy coming from such a stacked line. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[JohnC]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 4:17 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

That sums it up for me. He is one of the safest picks the Bills (or any other team) could make. 

 

I like him a lot and I am convinced he will be a starter in the league for a long time. Whether the positional value is there for a non pass rushing DT in the top 15 of the draft I am less sure. I think he will go around the middle of the first. Atlanta at #14 possibly? 

If you can get an outside or inside pass rushing lineman why would the Bills consider an interior lineman who can't get much of a push from his position? I'm not suggesting that he won't be an immediate plug and play player but as you smartly noted the positional value doesn't rise to the level where we are drafting in the first round. Ed Oliver is the player with the attributes that we need from a highly drafted DT. 

[Dkollidas]

I like Wilkins and wouldn’t be upset if they took him. I think he’s more of a McDermott Pick than a Beane pick. I look more at the 2018 draft than the 2017 draft to see how they will proceed organizationally. 2017 was still Whaley’s scouting staff. 2018 was full McBeane show. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

32 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

This guy just feels like John McCargo to me. I'm not interested.

This is so dead wrong. Mccargo has .5 sack in two seasons and 9 tkls for loss. He was less athletic at 20 pounds lesser and a lot less strong. McCargo has no business being drafted

Edited April 2, 2019 by GimmeSomeProcess

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

This is so dead wrong. Mccargo has .5 sack in two seasons and 9 tkls for loss. He was less athletic at 20 pounds lesser and a lot less strong. McCargo has no business being drafted

I didn't say they were identical players. Wilkins played on a stacked line at Clemson much like McCargo did at NC State, so it's really difficult to determine how good he actually is. The idea that he's some lock to be an impact player at the next level seems off. It would be hard to bust to the extent McCargo busted and I assume Wilkins will be better than McCargo. I just don't get the hype.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I didn't say they were identical players. Wilkins played on a stacked line at Clemson much like McCargo did at NC State, so it's really difficult to determine how good he actually is. The idea that he's some lock to be an impact player at the next level seems off. It would be hard to bust to the extent McCargo busted and I assume Wilkins will be better than McCargo. I just don't get the hype.

This is true but Wilkins is an actual player on that line. McCargo was awful and had no right being drafted, let alone first round. It blows my mind we took him. I think Wilkins is a beast and would be ok with the pick. However, he’s not my first, second or third choice. Much rather Oliver, Sweat, JE,JT and TJ

Edited April 2, 2019 by GimmeSomeProcess

[billsredneck1]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:32 AM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Shows in this video....  he is a process/Buffalo type guy!  Go BlueCheese Christian 

 

 

ok like him. he would love the tailgating in buffalo. 07:10 am and i'm feeling like firing up the grill.....

 

edit: while i do like this guy, we already have him on this team. just kick shaq inside....play murphy/lorax and love at end...or try to move down a couple of spots and pick sweat. i'd rather do that and target tillery or.....

Edited April 2, 2019 by billsredneck1

[FeelingOnYouboty]

13 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I can see why many think so highly of Oliver - his quickness is undeniable and he appears to play very hard.  My concerns with Oliver are:

1. Height/length - he is not short, but below ideal height for the position and his arms are relatively short for the position as well

2. Weight - He is certainly strong, but he will be giving away 40 to 50 pounds to NFL offensive lineman.  Can he thrive giving up that much mass and for how long?  

3. Level of competition - Rice, Texas Southern, Tulsa, East Carolina, Navy, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Memphis and Army were all on the schedule in 2018.  On the flip-side, He didn’t have much talent around him on Houston to take opponent’s attention off him.

 

None of the above means that he isn’t a very good prospect nor that he can’t find great success in the NFL, but they are (IMHO) legitimate areas of concern when comparing him against other prospects.

 

 

He's not a perfect prospect but I feel fairly confident in him. He's my guy but I'm not going to be throwing a tantrum if McDermott/Beane go a different way.

[Pete]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Prefer Quinnen but know he will be gone. We'll probably take Oliver and Wilkins only on a trade down in the 15-20 range.

Wawrow's post has me thinking.  The only players I see us trading up for are Williams and Oliver

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

He's not a perfect prospect but I feel fairly confident in him. He's my guy but I'm not going to be throwing a tantrum if McDermott/Beane go a different way.

I dont know if I want to be trading up for a "not perfect" prospect.

 

I thought Sammy Watkins was as close to perfect as it gets....and look what happened there

[FeelingOnYouboty]

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont know if I want to be trading up for a "not perfect" prospect.

 

I thought Sammy Watkins was as close to perfect as it gets....and look what happened there

 

Man I like DeAndre Hopkins the year before but I was in love with Sammy Watkins. Especially after he torched Ohio State.

[LSHMEAB]

10 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

This is true but Wilkins is an actual player on that line. McCargo was awful and had no right being drafted, let alone first round. It blows my mind we took him. I think Wilkins is a beast and would be ok with the pick. However, he’s not my first, second or third choice. Much rather Oliver, Sweat, JE,JT and TJ

Looking back at McCargo's stat line, it really is BAFFLING that he was a first round pick. He was young and probably tested well I suppose. Probably considered a "space eater" for Mario and Lawson. I mention him in the same breath as Wilkins because that Clemson line is so stacked. I'm leery of the pick myself and would rather have anyone on your list over Wilkins. Time will tell as they say.

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Looking back at McCargo's stat line, it really is BAFFLING that he was a first round pick. He was young and probably tested well I suppose. Probably considered a "space eater" for Mario and Lawson. I mention him in the same breath as Wilkins because that Clemson line is so stacked. I'm leery of the pick myself and would rather have anyone on your list over Wilkins. Time will tell as they say.

The McCargo pick is the one thing that worries about taking a D linemen from a good college offensive line........it really does