boater Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 These firings have zero, zip, nada to do with what is on the field, or on the ice. There is nothing here of concern to the sports fan. Convince me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, boater said: These firings have zero, zip, nada to do with what is on the field, or on the ice. There is nothing here of concern to the sports fan. Convince me otherwise. No one is arguing that they do. That isn’t the conversation taking place. The conversation is, “why is PSE cycling through senior level executives at a way higher rate than other pro sports organizations?” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Idk, but the sandwich I had at 716 last night might have been the worst food I’ve ever eaten at a restaurant. The food at that place absolutely sucks but that's what you would expect from a place like that...it's a fun place to grab some beers and watch a Sabres game once in awhile but if you are going out for a meal that place would be at the very bottom of my list of what Buffalo has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I know that I’ll take heat for this but I don’t believe that the Pegula’s know what they are doing on that end. I don’t know the people that were fired (but know a little about Popko). The Pegula’s can’t continously turn over their senior level executives!! That’s crazy. There are A LOT of pro franchises that have had their senior leadership in place for 10 to 15 or even 20 years. This one guy didn’t make it a month!! What ends up happening is you spend all of your time trying to get someone up to speed to fill a role that is above their current pay grade. Think about out how many senior level executives have been let go by the Pegula’s since they started with the Sabres? Black, Brandon, Darcy, Ruff, Bylsma, Popko, Rex, Whaley, Rossi, Muhleman, those 2 guys last month, the guy at Harbor Center and so on... I hope that this is a part of a bigger issue. If these people are tied to a problem it at least makes sense. If this is just turnover for turnover’s sake it is a problem. You're not gonna take any heat. A fracker and a waitress decided to buy a couple professional sports teams. Why would anyone expect them to know their asses from their elbows with regard to running said teams? 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: The food at that place absolutely sucks but that's what you would expect from a place like that...it's a fun place to grab some beers and watch a Sabres game once in awhile but if you are going out for a meal that place would be at the very bottom of my list of what Buffalo has to offer. Yeah wasn’t my choice, but hey we tried it and I most likely won’t be back. Live and learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 10 hours ago, vorpma said: What planet have you been living on - a decent football team? More like a perennial almost .500 team forever that never demonstrated the ability to make a serious playoff run; terrible scouting, drafting, coaching, and FO management from 2001 until 2017! 2014 Bills were 9-7 with 4th rated defense in the league. That is decent....I didn't say great or SuperBowl team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: No one is arguing that they do. That isn’t the conversation taking place. The conversation is, “why is PSE cycling through senior level executives at a way higher rate than other pro sports organizations?” Because they're new owners and want to put people that they are philosophically inline with in positions of power to make consistent decisions at all levels of their multi-billion dollar organization that they took over a handful of years ago? You say that Russ was good, and he was--at the job he did for Ralph. But that was for a miserly owner that lived out of town and went from wanting to micromanage everything to investing all his power in Russ. Russ was the defacto, well, everything for the Buffalo Bills. He would represent them at owners meetings. He had the biggest dick at OBD, so anyone he hired or promoted to be close to him was going to be extremely loyal to him. The Pegulas not only had to restructure, they fired Russ. I would venture a guess that his lieutenants were still loyal to him and not fully on board with many of the Pegulas decisions, or were actively undermining them in certain situations where everyone needed to be on the same reply. Honestly, if you said something like this: "I know a lot of the people that Russ had in charge and they were talented. He was talented. The Bills obviously has no choice but to fire RB but it wasn’t wise to clear out veteran sports business people like Popko. Those people know WAY more about the business than Terry & Kim Pegula. You should be embracing people like that to learn from, not firing them." at a meeting, or too the wrong person, you would have a target on your back too. It's "toxic" (I hate that word, because it's used too much in business now, but it applies here.) The Pegulas need people loyal to them, not Russ. And unlike many, many people here, I think Russ did a fantastic job with the Bills, and if it wasn't for him, we honestly might not have this board and the Bon Jovi owned Los Angeles Bills could be the hot name in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Wawrow’s story on it ...residual Brandon housecleaning fallout?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Helpmenow said: Russ Brandon hired them at his new company. Does this ‘new company’ know he works there? The hat place didn’t. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, nucci said: 2014 Bills were 9-7 with 4th rated defense in the league. That is decent....I didn't say great or SuperBowl team You got me there, we were on the verge of greatness! Well, maybe not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 45 minutes ago, vorpma said: You got me there, we were on the verge of greatness! Well, maybe not! Not what I said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Home attendance averages, Sabres: 16-17: 18,141 17-18: 18,563 18-19: 17,888 That seems like a big dip in attendance for a team that just improved its record substantially. The reasoning could be nothing more than this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Home attendance averages, Sabres: 16-17: 18,141 17-18: 18,563 18-19: 17,888 That seems like a big dip in attendance for a team that just improved its record substantially. The reasoning could be nothing more than this. I think the increase in ticket prices, excluding this season, for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in many years is part of the reason 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 16 hours ago, nucci said: The Sabres have been a mess since they took over....same with Bills though there is a glimmer of hope this offseason....I don't think they know how to run things They're just some people that just happened to own a pile of land with Natural Gas in it just when NG became a big thing. They fell into a pile of $$$ but really never have run anything. Just be thankful they have showered their good $$ luck on WNY and let it go at that. Without them, both teams would probably be gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Mr and Mrs pegs are cracking down on unwanted canoodling. Man, Sexual harrassment is the great career destroyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: No one is arguing that they do. That isn’t the conversation taking place. The conversation is, “why is PSE cycling through senior level executives at a way higher rate than other pro sports organizations?” That's my take as well. @JohnnyGold made a reference to Russ Brandon's lingering presence. That may well be but the rate at which they are turning people over is alarming. Aren't they in the middle of two huge arena/stadium projects? Weren't some of these people hired recently to oversee those projects because of their level of expertise? I can't see how you get good people to work for you when you go through senior people this abruptly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Eh, more high level executives should get fired these days. Companies have no problem firing a custodian if he isn't doing a good job, COOs and such should be no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Maybe the Pegulas have been watching reruns of ‘The Apprentice’? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 17 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I know that I’ll take heat for this but I don’t believe that the Pegula’s know what they are doing on that end. I don’t know the people that were fired (but know a little about Popko). The Pegula’s can’t continously turn over their senior level executives!! That’s crazy. There are A LOT of pro franchises that have had their senior leadership in place for 10 to 15 or even 20 years. This one guy didn’t make it a month!! What ends up happening is you spend all of your time trying to get someone up to speed to fill a role that is above their current pay grade. Think about out how many senior level executives have been let go by the Pegula’s since they started with the Sabres? Black, Brandon, Darcy, Ruff, Bylsma, Popko, Rex, Whaley, Rossi, Muhleman, those 2 guys last month, the guy at Harbor Center and so on... I hope that this is a part of a bigger issue. If these people are tied to a problem it at least makes sense. If this is just turnover for turnover’s sake it is a problem. I think you are being a little unfair when speaking about senior executives, at least on the Bills behalf. It clearly is not “turnover for turnovers sake” like you have opined. The firing of the Bills executives were moves that needed to be made, and very few in the NFL disagreed. Did you honestly expect the Pegulas to keep Russ Brandon employed in 2019, given the nature of some of the allegations which came out? Also this is without any damming information in Brandon which was apparently unearthed during their investigation. I am sure they wanted to keep Brandon from a business standpoint, he was good at his job, but this was a move that needed to be made. Doug Whaley - I didn’t feel that Whaley was a very good GM. His record and the salary cap speaks for itself. Yes there were factors blah blah blah.... but do you really see this as an egregious firing? It’s telling how no NFL team touched Whaley in the 2 years since he left Buffalo and he was exiled to ventures outside of the league. Rex Ryan - Do you really fault PSE for firing Rex Ryan? By all accounts he was a failure and embarrassed the organization. We’ve seen owners keep bad coaches under the false premise of “continuity.” It wasn’t working with Rex and I give the Pegulas credit for starting over. The Sabres and PSE stuff, I’m not as well-versed I’m so I won’t comment with very much insight. Maybe you’re right there. I won’t fault the Pegula’s the same way you have, and I feel you are being unfair and grasping for straws by lumping in the Bills firings. Where I do agree with you, is that Terry and Kim have made some mistakes as owners. They hung on to Lindy Ruff for too long, should have fired Doug Whaley and brought in a GM in January of 2017, and were easily swindled (along with Russ and Whaley) by Rex Ryan. But again, to their credit, when they recognized that they made a mistake, they ate the money, took the lumps, and started over. 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: Home attendance averages, Sabres: 16-17: 18,141 17-18: 18,563 18-19: 17,888 That seems like a big dip in attendance for a team that just improved its record substantially. The reasoning could be nothing more than this. The team was also horrible in 17-18. I am sure that fans didn’t have a ton on interest in renewing season tickets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 To speculate on the termination of the 3 recent departures is wrong and unfair to the 3 individuals who need to now go out and try and make a living. When most of us lose a job, it happens in relative anonymity. These folks - not so much. Any hint of scandal or constant rumor-mongering and it could permanently damage their reputation and make it next to impossible to make a living in their chosen field. Who knows why these 3 are gone. It could be the tried & true "We're going in a different direction." Or perhaps there was cause. Reporters who dig into this may let us all know sooner or later. What we do know is that Kim is trying to establish a code of conduct at PSE. Brandon violated it and was gone. The 2 Xmas party-ers also violated it. These 3, who knows? PSE could do them a favor with an over-the-top explanation to erase any gossip about impropriety - but they won't issue that if there were any. Maybe that's whay we haven't heard more thus far . . . . More to come, I'm sure. . . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: I think you are being a little unfair when speaking about senior executives, at least on the Bills behalf. It clearly is not “turnover for turnovers sake” like you have opined. The firing of the Bills executives were moves that needed to be made, and very few in the NFL disagreed. Did you honestly expect the Pegulas to keep Russ Brandon employed in 2019, given the nature of some of the allegations which came out? Also this is without any damming information in Brandon which was apparently unearthed during their investigation. I am sure they wanted to keep Brandon from a business standpoint, he was good at his job, but this was a move that needed to be made. Doug Whaley - I didn’t feel that Whaley was a very good GM. His record and the salary cap speaks for itself. Yes there were factors blah blah blah.... but do you really see this as an egregious firing? It’s telling how no NFL team touched Whaley in the 2 years since he left Buffalo and he was exiled to ventures outside of the league. Rex Ryan - Do you really fault PSE for firing Rex Ryan? By all accounts he was a failure and embarrassed the organization. We’ve seen owners keep bad coaches under the false premise of “continuity.” It wasn’t working with Rex and I give the Pegulas credit for starting over. The Sabres and PSE stuff, I’m not as well-versed I’m so I won’t comment with very much insight. Maybe you’re right there. I won’t fault the Pegula’s the same way you have, and I feel you are being unfair and grasping for straws by lumping in the Bills firings. Where I do agree with you, is that Terry and Kim have made some mistakes as owners. They hung on to Lindy Ruff for too long, should have fired Doug Whaley and brought in a GM in January of 2017, and were easily swindled (along with Russ and Whaley) by Rex Ryan. But again, to their credit, when they recognized that they made a mistake, they ate the money, took the lumps, and started over. The team was also horrible in 17-18. I am sure that fans didn’t have a ton on interest in renewing season tickets I said that RB absolutely needed to be fired. I believe that some of those others needed to go as well. That doesn’t change the fact that they are turning over senior level people at an unparalleled level. They are the ones that hired these people in many cases!! The last guy was there a month. I didn’t even name them all. The average pro sports franchise probably has 12 or so people at the “senior level” between on and off the field (maybe a little more). They have cycled through people at a rate that no other team has. The Pelicans/Saints are a similar structure. They have turned over 3 people at that level since 2012 (if my memory is correct). They fired the VP of sponsorship in like 2015, Monty Williams (HC Pelicans) around then and Dell Demps (GM Pelicans) this year. Every other department head remains and outside of Monty Williams the people were replaced internally. The Pegulas have been through 20 or so people at that level in a similar time frame. What is happening at PSE is not normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 49 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Eh, more high level executives should get fired these days. Companies have no problem firing a custodian if he isn't doing a good job, COOs and such should be no different. It usually costs a hell of lot more to fire a CEO/COO/CAO than firing the janitor. They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: My impression is that the Pegulas fire a lot of people because sports don't work like private industry and they are getting frustrated that investing resources doesn't lead to success in sports the same way it does in business that ain't good.. this isn't playing lemonade stand for selling hot dogs to get a positive cash flow. The point of investing in a sports team is you know without a doubt the value is appreciating greatly with the rest of the NFL. They're growing equity. These things aren't supposed to be invested in as cash cows. Heck. The sale of the Panthers already doubled the Pegula's investment. Business is going great for them. Also, someone posted this earlier, but I don't think they have the same relative business acumen of other owners. They owned a plot of land that struck rich. Arthur Blank by comparison started Home Depot. Edited February 27, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I said that RB absolutely needed to be fired. I believe that some of those others needed to go as well. That doesn’t change the fact that they are turning over senior level people at an unparalleled level. They are the ones that hired these people in many cases!! The last guy was there a month. I didn’t even name them all. The average pro sports franchise probably has 12 or so people at the “senior level” between on and off the field (maybe a little more). They have cycled through people at a rate that no other team has. The Pelicans/Saints are a similar structure. They have turned over 3 people at that level since 2012 (if my memory is correct). They fired the VP of sponsorship in like 2015, Monty Williams (HC Pelicans) around then and Dell Demps (GM Pelicans) this year. Every other department head remains and outside of Monty Williams the people were replaced internally. The Pegulas have been through 20 or so people at that level in a similar time frame. What is happening at PSE is not normal. Well I think the problem with the Bills, specifically, has been bad hiring and not knowing what to look for in effective football people. They seemed to have been swindled by poor hires and bad decisions and I bet they know it, which is why they had been talking to Polian in 2016. My hope is that they made a good choice in Beane and McDermott and can finally have the success and stability the team has been chasing for 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: That's my take as well. @JohnnyGold made a reference to Russ Brandon's lingering presence. That may well be but the rate at which they are turning people over is alarming. Aren't they in the middle of two huge arena/stadium projects? Weren't some of these people hired recently to oversee those projects because of their level of expertise? I can't see how you get good people to work for you when you go through senior people this abruptly. If Promo is concerned, we’re *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Yup 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: That's my take as well. @JohnnyGold made a reference to Russ Brandon's lingering presence. That may well be but the rate at which they are turning people over is alarming. Aren't they in the middle of two huge arena/stadium projects? Weren't some of these people hired recently to oversee those projects because of their level of expertise? I can't see how you get good people to work for you when you go through senior people this abruptly. Yup, always hang onto dead weight and non - productive individuals until it is so bad you have to fire them, great business model! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Kim has her hooks too deep in the Sabres- they are an absolute dumpster fire. 8 years of a rebuild with no playoffs is disgusting. 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Home attendance averages, Sabres: 16-17: 18,141 17-18: 18,563 18-19: 17,888 That seems like a big dip in attendance for a team that just improved its record substantially. The reasoning could be nothing more than this. 18-19 should drop more this last 1/4 of the season will be a joke. Housley is an absolute lousy coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Well I think the problem with the Bills, specifically, has been bad hiring and not knowing what to look for in effective football people. They seemed to have been swindled by poor hires and bad decisions and I bet they know it, which is why they had been talking to Polian in 2016. My hope is that they made a good choice in Beane and McDermott and can finally have the success and stability the team has been chasing for 20 years I hope that you are right and don’t necessarily disagree that Beane and McDermott May be the right people. Any way you slice it though they have cycled through hockey people, football people and business people at a crazy rate. I hope that they get the right people in place and develop some stability. It’s going to be hard to recruit the top people into those roles knowing that the “average lifespan” at PSE is far less than the other places recruiting the same people. You don’t want that to be your reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said: The team was also horrible in 17-18. I am sure that fans didn’t have a ton on interest in renewing season tickets That could certainly have a lot to do with it. Season tickets sales are usually the giant driver for overall ticket sales. But I’d wager that a big part of the jobs of the people fired was to overcome that. They were getting compensated very, very well to perform and they didn’t. The just paid the price for their results. Some jobs are like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I know that I’ll take heat for this but I don’t believe that the Pegula’s know what they are doing on that end. I don’t know the people that were fired (but know a little about Popko). The Pegula’s can’t continously turn over their senior level executives!! That’s crazy. There are A LOT of pro franchises that have had their senior leadership in place for 10 to 15 or even 20 years. This one guy didn’t make it a month!! What ends up happening is you spend all of your time trying to get someone up to speed to fill a role that is above their current pay grade. Think about out how many senior level executives have been let go by the Pegula’s since they started with the Sabres? Black, Brandon, Darcy, Ruff, Bylsma, Popko, Rex, Whaley, Rossi, Muhleman, those 2 guys last month, the guy at Harbor Center and so on... I hope that this is a part of a bigger issue. If these people are tied to a problem it at least makes sense. If this is just turnover for turnover’s sake it is a problem. 17 hours ago, MJS said: Lot's of people pretending that they know what they are talking about. Face it. We don't know why these individuals were fired. Jumping to conclusions and speculating is stupid. Perhaps they were great moves, perhaps they were foolish moves. We'll never know. And, BTW, winning and losing has nothing to do with these management positions. If the Sabres are winning does that mean their marketing director is effective? These are purely business moves and have nothing to do with the product on the FIELD. I'm in the middle of these two posts. I think the PSE executives have very little to do with the product on the field/ice, but I agree that tons of turnover could be a signal of a larger management issue. I think it's very relevant that these moves have apparently come after Kim's overall evaluation of the organization that began last May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, JMF2006 said: It usually costs a hell of lot more to fire a CEO/COO/CAO than firing the janitor. They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. The fact that the Pegulas are willing to eat these costs and fire people actually makes me happy. If they know they didn't hire the right people and they are willing to eat costs just to get rid of them, tells me they are willing to do whatever it takes to get things right. But it does show they must be doing something wrong that they haven't been able to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Too bad this didn’t work out, we would have none of these PSE issues! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Too bad this didn’t work out, we would have none of these PSE issues! Based upon your regret expressed, might I suggest you take a flying f*** at a rolling donut. ? * ‘In other news today, by executive order, downtown Buffalo was designated as the new federal nuclear waste dump for the United States. Unnamed sources indicate a voice was heard from behind Oval Office doors, shouting “Let’s see them sell seat licenses for that!” ‘ Edited February 27, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Nuclear? New-cue-lar? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, vorpma said: Yup Yup, always hang onto dead weight and non - productive individuals until it is so bad you have to fire them, great business model! But what does it say when you hire/elevate someone and then fire them a month later? If they are "dead weight" why were they given that executive role in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 If the Donald had bought the Bills he would have have fired everyone and then tried to fire the fans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: But what does it say when you hire/elevate someone and then fire them a month later? If they are "dead weight" why were they given that executive role in the first place? In my world it means the hired individual did not work out as intended; it happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, vorpma said: In my world it means the hired individual did not work out as intended; it happens! But when it happens repeatedly, you have to ask yourself why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, JMF2006 said: They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. All I got when I was hired was a golden shower clause. Not looking forward to termination.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, boater said: All I got when I was hired was a golden shower clause. Not looking forward to termination.. You're lucky. Normally that happens during employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: But when it happens repeatedly, you have to ask yourself why. Maybe, maybe not; get over it, no big deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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