D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, Logic said:

That's all inference on your part. And I'd be willing to bet that Beane has spent just as much time on the road as Whaley ever did. Go find me a recent interview or article with Beane where he's not either on the road, just back from the road, or just about to set out on the road. 

 

I think one thing we can agree on is....there’s no salary cap on FO or scouting staff. I love that we have owners who are willing and able to go after the best talent evaluators money can buy. I hope other teams keep coming, trying to poach our staff, because THAT means we are doing a great job. I don’t think they did it because Beane is weak, but because they can. 

[mrags]

58 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

so when Rex told Terry Pegula he had better things to do a stunned Pegula pulled the trigger.   If Rex hadn't been such an ungrateful prick he might even have kept his job.

I don’t recall this at all. What are you talking about? Seriously, not picking a fight. I’d love to know what I may have missed here. 

[MJS]

51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think he has seriously good ability to go get the ball.  His hands catches, albeit in a highlight real, are excellent if not outstanding.  

 

There's been a lot discussion about Zay Jones.   Duke looks like a serious threat to take Jones's job, because he looks so sure-handed.  This guy goes and gets the ball in a crowd, he doesn't seem to get outfought for the ball, he doesn't bobble it.  

Against FAR lesser opponents in the CFL.

 

I hope he works out, but anyone EXPECTING him to be anything more than a role player is just not being realistic. We can all hope, but we sure shouldn't expect it.

[Mat68]

The great hype hope.  

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

I don’t recall this at all. What are you talking about? Seriously, not picking a fight. I’d love to know what I may have missed here. 

I think he was referring to near the end of the season when Rex went to Pegula and straight up asked him if his plan was to fire him after the season, and if that was the plan he shouldn't draw it out. Just do it now. So then Pegula fired him. But it was pretty clear that the plan was to let him go regardless. Pegula just wanted to after the season.

[bmur66]

I love his highlight film. He’s a baller for sure. We will see how he does without a running start against better defenders.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

I don’t recall this at all. What are you talking about? Seriously, not picking a fight. I’d love to know what I may have missed here. 

 

 

Rex told Terry Pegula to fire him on the spot if he was going to do it because he had other things he was interested in doing in what was left of the NFL regular season.     Clemson baby!

 

 

[Bubba Gump]

Reminds me of Eric Moulds. Goes and gets the ball, fights for it. We haven't had a guy like that in a long time. Hopefully he can transition to the NFL, but that is a big task.

[DJB]

No question at minimum hes at least better than Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

I suppose it helps not eating furniture for breakfast like KB does

[Shaw66]

On 2/9/2019 at 6:47 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I completely agree with that.

 

The fundamental mistake was forcing a lame duck Doug Whaley to remain in the GM office all offseason when McD was using everyone BUT Whaley to make personnel decisions.........McD and The Pegs treated that free agency/draft period as if it was some kind of half-speed practice run......or something.............every draft could be your most important ever.........there isn't a sound explanation for what they did.    I mean.......wtf it's not like they didn't ultimately just hire McD's dear friend to be GM(which is almost certainly what the two had been planning for the previous 2-3 years when McD started coming up as a HC candidate).      Just a total head scratcher.

 

 

McD and B don't do anything without a reason.  

 

If I had to guess, I'd say this:   First, they didn't want to go into the draft with a new GM.  Whaley had been running a scouting process for a year, had been collecting information, distilling it and making judgments.   And, as has been pointed, his background was scouting.  He was reasonably good at evaluating talent. 

 

Second, the most important decision was QB, and they (the Pegulas and McD) didn't want a lameduck GM to make that decision.   So, one way or another, they forced the tradeback.  By doing that they assured that the new GM would have extra ammunition in the QB search.  They also knew that the upcoming QB class was strong, so the extra first round pick would likely be useful.  

 

Third, McD knew he was going to tear down the team, but they had enough confidence in Whaley to let him pick at 29 and after that.  

 

Fourth, they began the tear down in 2017, but they also wanted to get a look at some guys through that season before they decided on everyone.   That's why after 2017, they said fans shouldn't expect 2018 to be as good as the playoff season - because they knew that they weren't done cleaning  house.  So the rebuild began a bit in 2017, but it didn't begin in earnest until 2018, when Beane got to run his own draft.  

 

I don't have any trouble seeing McD having the beginnings of that plan in place before the 2017 draft, and the full fledged plan in place went into place shortly after Beane arrived.

 

As I said, they don't do anything without a reason.  

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Rex told Terry Pegula to fire him on the spot if he was going to do it because he had other things he was interested in doing in what was left of the NFL regular season.     Clemson baby!

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think he was referring to near the end of the season when Rex went to Pegula and straight up asked him if his plan was to fire him after the season, and if that was the plan he shouldn't draw it out. Just do it now. So then Pegula fired him. But it was pretty clear that the plan was to let him go regardless. Pegula just wanted to after the season.

Ah. I don’t remember any of that. Maybe because I was just so sure Rex was getting fired and wanted him gone for about 27 games. Once he had that abortion against the Giants at home in week 5 I think. His first season. I knew I wanted him gone then 

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) I don't remember hearing how the locker room was a mess under Rex.    The defense was upset with Rex scheme but that's it.  As far as public shouting between coach and GM........once between Marrone and Whaley?   The reality is that they were just poorly coached under Rex.   Pegula thought they should have won 10-11 games so when Rex told Terry Pegula he had better things to do a stunned Pegula pulled the trigger.   If Rex hadn't been such an ungrateful prick he might even have kept his job.

 

2) Whaley was a "scout" GM.   Those guys are rarely good with money.   They did get into "scouting" as a profession, after all.  See John Butler.  Butler stacked talent in Buffalo and SD but he wasn't good at the administrative end.   As I've said..........that type of GM wasn't a good mesh with an ownership that was utterly clueless about how to run an NFL team.    They needed more of an office GM rather than the traveling scout type that Whaley is.   Hence the more administrative Beane.   And then surrounding Beane with what they perceived was the best personnel staff they could buy because they don't expect him to have the eye of a dedicated scout.     As such he's pretty vulnerable if his scouting staffs do a poor job.......like the pro personnel team last offseason.........but also gets accolades if they do well.......like the amateur scouts did(IMO) in the last draft/UDFA. 

1 -  everyone said there was zero accountability under Rex. When you have zero accountability, you have locker room issues.  Dareus getting suspended and coming in fat every year.  Sammy admitting that he didn’t give it his all and that he was an immature baby.  

 

2- after reading the rest of your posts about Beane, it seems to me that much of what you write about his “scouting” or lack there of, is just your, as Logic said, inference.  Yes, Whaley was just a scout.  That doesn’t mean his replacement has to be a one trick pony as well.  Beane seems pretty well rounded to me.  

Edited April 6, 2019 by NewEra

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:54 PM, racketmaster said:

I'm not sure he will be our number 1 wr but he will likely get a shot to play in the top 3. I have to assume that he looked around at NFL teams and decided to leave the CFL because he was going to get a legitimate chance to start with the Bills. I do like he body control and ability to catch contested passes. He clearly goes after and attacks the football. He might be a replacement for what the Bills thought they were going to get in Benjamin (a guy who is physical and will make contested catches presenting a bigger target in the red zone).

 

That said, Williams looks like he is a 4.7 speed guy. He is a thick body wr and does not appear to have a ton of speed. But that does not mean he cannot be useful. Dez Bryant could still make plays later in his career even after he had lost some speed and Dez was never known as a speed guy to begin with. I could see Williams taking over as a #2 with Robert Foster being more of the #1 threat. I would not mind this, especially if the Bills signed Humphries to play in the slot.

Still upset we missed out on Humphries... we got Beasly as a consolation now we need to draft Isabella.

[LSHMEAB]

34 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Reminds me of Eric Moulds. Goes and gets the ball, fights for it. We haven't had a guy like that in a long time. Hopefully he can transition to the NFL, but that is a big task.

I was gonna scoff at the Moulds comparison, but you qualified it nicely. Certainly some similarities in the attack the ball mentality. Moulds lacked breakaway speed as well(never forget when he got caught from behind by TBuck in the Fins playoff game. UGH! 

 

There's definitely a chance and I'm not gonna write him off after Foster's emergence. I was SHOCKED Foster made the team, let alone made a huge splash. So we'll see what happens. Wouldn't be surprised if he was cut and wouldn't be SHOCKED if he had an impact. 

[gobills1212]

40 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

McD and B don't do anything without a reason.  

 

If I had to guess, I'd say this:   First, they didn't want to go into the draft with a new GM.  Whaley had been running a scouting process for a year, had been collecting information, distilling it and making judgments.   And, as has been pointed, his background was scouting.  He was reasonably good at evaluating talent. 

 

Second, the most important decision was QB, and they (the Pegulas and McD) didn't want a lameduck GM to make that decision.   So, one way or another, they forced the tradeback.  By doing that they assured that the new GM would have extra ammunition in the QB search.  They also knew that the upcoming QB class was strong, so the extra first round pick would likely be useful.  

 

Third, McD knew he was going to tear down the team, but they had enough confidence in Whaley to let him pick at 29 and after that.  

 

Fourth, they began the tear down in 2017, but they also wanted to get a look at some guys through that season before they decided on everyone.   That's why after 2017, they said fans shouldn't expect 2018 to be as good as the playoff season - because they knew that they weren't done cleaning  house.  So the rebuild began a bit in 2017, but it didn't begin in earnest until 2018, when Beane got to run his own draft.  

 

I don't have any trouble seeing McD having the beginnings of that plan in place before the 2017 draft, and the full fledged plan in place went into place shortly after Beane arrived.

 

As I said, they don't do anything without a reason.  

Anyone who has issues w this either A) just doesnt get it and wont or B) just like complaining

 

And the post you were replying to - i find it odd he thinks the mcbeane thing was planned in the sense that when he became headcoach, very often he is hired by a GM. Just situationaly there happened to be a lame duck GM. Stars alligned and it was meant to be. Pretty tough to predict a situation as unique as that IMO

[MrEpsYtown]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Good article. My favorite line was "Williams gets his hands on the ball and pulls it in. No double-clutch. No waiting for it to come to his chest." somebody needs to show that to Zay Jones. 

 

But it I do think something's has to give at the position. 

 

Brown, Beasley, Jones, Duke are four guys who do not play special teams, though Beasley returns punts. If Foster is going to be one of your top guys, I'm not sure he plays a ton of teams either. So you essentially have five guys who are offense only guys, and I don't think that is going to work with this regime. Then you have Roberts who can do a bit of everything. That's six guys right there. Maybe you keep seven....I'm interested to see what their strategy will be in the draft and how this position shakes out. But I think Brown Beasley Foster are locks and that Jones and Williams are essentially fighting for a spot. 

 

Duke Williams is the anti Zay Jones. Zay looks like he was created in a  receiver generator. Good size, speed, great agility, big hands and bred in a football family. Williams is big and slow, his measurables are ok. His testing numbers suck, but the dude can ball and just makes plays. I think, at the very least, Zay will have to step up becuase his spot is in jeopardy. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) I don't remember hearing how the locker room was a mess under Rex.    The defense was upset with Rex scheme but that's it.  As far as public shouting between coach and GM........once between Marrone and Whaley?   The reality is that they were just poorly coached under Rex.   Pegula thought they should have won 10-11 games so when Rex told Terry Pegula he had better things to do a stunned Pegula pulled the trigger.   If Rex hadn't been such an ungrateful prick he might even have kept his job.

 

2) Whaley was a "scout" GM.   Those guys are rarely good with money.   They did get into "scouting" as a profession, after all.  See John Butler.  Butler stacked talent in Buffalo and SD but he wasn't good at the administrative end.   As I've said..........that type of GM wasn't a good mesh with an ownership that was utterly clueless about how to run an NFL team.    They needed more of an office GM rather than the traveling scout type that Whaley is.   Hence the more administrative Beane.   And then surrounding Beane with what they perceived was the best personnel staff they could buy because they don't expect him to have the eye of a dedicated scout.     As such he's pretty vulnerable if his scouting staffs do a poor job.......like the pro personnel team last offseason.........but also gets accolades if they do well.......like the amateur scouts did(IMO) in the last draft/UDFA. 

 

17 hours ago, Logic said:

That's all inference on your part. And I'd be willing to bet that Beane has spent just as much time on the road as Whaley ever did. Go find me a recent interview or article with Beane where he's not either on the road, just back from the road, or just about to set out on the road. 

 

I don't often agree with BadoBilz, but I do on this one and if I were you I'd stop arguing with him regarding point #2 as I view that as a big benefit to Beane.  I agree about Butler too, great scout, loved every player he found and signed them to crazy contracts.  Beane is more of an administrative guy.  Yes he does go out scouting but doesn't have the lifetime blood in his veins of scouting like some of these others do like a Whaley.   Whaley is about 5 years older worked for ten years in Pitt in the area of scouting.  From what I recall of the stories written about him when he was first hired, Beane started out getting coffee and picking up dry cleaning.  He's trying to catch up on the scouting part and is doing a good job there, but am very happy that the area of scouting isn't his strong part.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

18 hours ago, Logic said:

Your post completely ignores two critical points.

1.) The culture/locker room when McDermott walked through the door was awful. How many articles did we read from that time about how dysfunctional the ENTIRE Bills organization was from top to bottom? How many shouting matches between head coaches and Whaley took place in public view? Whaley built a collection of talent, but he did not build a team. I don't care that Greg Roman smoke and mirrored the Bills offense to 7th place or that they had a nice collection of names written on paper. The actual team, the team itself, in terms of functioning AS A TEAM, was not built for sustained success. There were some nice coats of paint thrown onto what was ultimately a rotting foundation. 

2.) The way that Whaley handed out and structured contracts DID get the Bills into salary cap trouble. The largest cap hits on the team belonged to guys who either underperformed (Dareus), were often injured (Glenn, Clay), or had questionable character (Dareus again). Sammy Watkins was next on the list of guys who were due a second contract. And guess what? He belonged to group 1 (under-performers) AND group 2 (the often injured). Should they have just extended his deal any way? 

It is certainly fair to say that McDermott and Beane CHOSE to tear down and rebuild the Bills. However, it is important to look at WHY they felt the need to do so. The Bills long term salary cap situation was a mess due to bad contracts. The players who WERE getting big paydays were NOT the type of guys you want to be taking up such large portions of your cap. The culture sucked from top to bottom. The Bills, as constructed, were just good enough to sneak into the playoffs every other year, but didn't have the culture, character, or talent to make it further than that. Even WITH the decision to tear down, jettison bad contracts, and rebuild from scratch, McDermott/Beane's Bills made the playoffs in year 1. Yes, they had a down year 2, but it was a year that featured lots of live reps for their franchise QB (who was obtained largely thanks to their shrewd trading away of the Watkinses and Dareuses of the world for draft capital, thank you), as well as live reps for lots of other crucial youngsters. Now, in just year 3, they have one of the best cap situations in the league and a roster full of promising young players. They are building a team to go BEYOND the occasional wild card weekend, and they are building the right way, with an emphasis on culture and the importance of a sustainable model for success.

Kudos to Beane and McDermott, and pshaw to anyone who pretends like they walked into a rosy situation that didn't need A TON of work.

 

...agree with this and they went about it in the way they felt it had to be done.....also agree on the culture part.......Marrone's big selling point to Brandon was professing "culture change"....he called Brandon almost daily to find out his hire status......problem was Doug acted like General Patton......a close friend (diehard fan) hosted a staff dinner one night after practice and restaurant was 20 minutes late serving..he went nuts and rushes everybody to finish so to make up the 20 minutes...and then back to Fisher for MORE meetings, usually until 9 or 10PM, with Brandon/Whaley required to be there...they got sick of it and turned on him....the culture got worse IMO under Wrecks because he was a bloviating azzclown with no discipline....turning us into his "Jets West Circus" set this club back two years....enter McDermott with his broom, mop, dust pan and dumpster to clean up the mess.....not so sure about Whaley being the contracts culprit......see the 2008 headline about Overdorf's promotion and then decide......he is still there and I doubt he surrendered that control to Whaley.......

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.- Associated Press

Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

 

For Overdorf, the promotion means he formally becomes the team's top executive in day-to-day football matters, answering to Brandon and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. Overdorf is entering his 23rd season with the team and has handled contract talks for most of this decade.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree with this and they went about it in the way they felt it had to be done.....also agree on the culture part.......Marrone's big selling point to Brandon was professing "culture change"....he called Brandon almost daily to find out his hire status......problem was Doug acted like General Patton......a close friend (diehard fan) hosted a staff dinner one night after practice and restaurant was 20 minutes late serving..he went nuts and rushes everybody to finish so to make up the 20 minutes...and then back to Fisher for MORE meetings, usually until 9 or 10PM, with Brandon/Whaley required to be there...they got sick of it and turned on him....the culture got worse IMO undr Wrecks because he was a bloviating azzclown with no discipline....turning us into his "Jets West Circus" set this club back two years....enter McDermott with his broom, mop, dust pan and dumpster to clean up the mess.....not so sure about Whaley being the contracts culprit......see the 2008 headline about Overdorf's promotion and then decide......he is still there and I doubt he surrendered that control to Whaley.......

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.- Associated Press

Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

 

For Overdorf, the promotion means he formally becomes the team's top executive in day-to-day football matters, answering to Brandon and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. Overdorf is entering his 23rd season with the team and has handled contract talks for most of this decade.

 

 

 

 

Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

[Doc]

Just now, Logic said:

Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

 

Judging by the deals being given out, it seems like he takes his orders from the GM.  These are deals unlike those we've seen the past couple decades, despite the Bills having more money than ever before to spend. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree with this and they went about it in the way they felt it had to be done.....also agree on the culture part.......Marrone's big selling point to Brandon was professing "culture change"....he called Brandon almost daily to find out his hire status......problem was Doug acted like General Patton......a close friend (diehard fan) hosted a staff dinner one night after practice and restaurant was 20 minutes late serving..he went nuts and rushes everybody to finish so to make up the 20 minutes...and then back to Fisher for MORE meetings, usually until 9 or 10PM, with Brandon/Whaley required to be there...they got sick of it and turned on him....the culture got worse IMO undr Wrecks because he was a bloviating azzclown with no discipline....turning us into his "Jets West Circus" set this club back two years....enter McDermott with his broom, mop, dust pan and dumpster to clean up the mess.....not so sure about Whaley being the contracts culprit......see the 2008 headline about Overdorf's promotion and then decide......he is still there and I doubt he surrendered that control to Whaley.......

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.- Associated Press

Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

 

For Overdorf, the promotion means he formally becomes the team's top executive in day-to-day football matters, answering to Brandon and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. Overdorf is entering his 23rd season with the team and has handled contract talks for most of this decade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

 

....good, bad or indifferent, it seems to contradict the powers & control that Overdorf was given in 2008......certainly possible he ceded those powers....still being employed at OBD today, wonder what powers he currently has....and I STILL maintain the scurrilous Littman had financial veto powers, protecting his gratis 1% interest in the club courtesy of Ralph.....got a nice check for $14 mil when Pegs bought Bflo.......

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

Beane’s background is cap and contracts too but overdorf is really good at what he does, I believe they work together with him assisting and taking directive from  Beane

Edited April 6, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[C.Biscuit97]

17 hours ago, DJB said:

No question at minimum hes at least better than Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

I suppose it helps not eating furniture for breakfast like KB does

I know he sucks (though our current regime saw him first hand and still traded for him) but KB was a former 1st rounder who had a 1,000 season in the nfl.

 

this guy is money found when doing laundry.  Expect nothing and if you find something, it’s a bonus. 

[TigerJ]

I look at Duke Williams as a Cam Phillips type receiver who is 4 inches taller.  That four inches is important and is the reason why Williams might make the roster (other than his last name) and Cam Phillips won't.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

31 minutes ago, Logic said:

Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

 

 

...darn good point Logic........NOT a criticism, but I just don't see how Overdorf could have the knowledge/expertise about a possible signee regarding his market value/skill set among his peers financially nor the appropriate length of the deal (McBeane and his staff of 17+, many of which are VP's of Player Personnel or Directors of Pro Player Personnel from elsewhere have that expertise IMO)....more reasonably, I could see McBeane handing over the agreed upon details of the deal and Overdorf drawing up the contract, followed by a cap update to McBeane as to where things now stand.....my speculation....BTW on the Williams kid: pretty sad how some of the TBD posting experts already have him labelled as "camp fodder that won't even make the team".....welcome Duke.....just sidestep the pigeon s%$t on the red carpet rolled out for you...SMH....

Edited April 6, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I look at Duke Williams as a Cam Phillips type receiver who is 4 inches taller.  That four inches is important and is the reason why Williams might make the roster (other than his last name) and Cam Phillips won't.  

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

[Shaw66]

 

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

Good post. 

Overdorf seems to be the one guy who has survived everyone else and stuck around. Pegula empowered Beane to completely re-shape the front office, and Beane opted to stick with Overdorf, even after jettisoning virtually every other member of the front office staff. 

I get the feeling that while Overdorf takes care of the nuts and bolts of the contracts, he still gets his directive from the GM as far as how much to be willing to spend, how aggressive to be, etc. I don't think he just has carte blanche to do what he wants. I truly don't know, though.

People used to claim that Overdorf had too much control, indirectly, over major personnel decisions, simply by exercising his control as the cap and contract guru.  I can't imagine that he has that kind of control under Beane.   Beane is highly structured and organized.   There is, for lack of a better word, a process.  There's a chain of command, and whenever Beane talks about the chain of command it's clear that he, McDermott, the Pegulas and no one else are in charge.  

 

I'd like to think that Beane's view of Overdorf is that he is someone who, compared to others in the league, is very good at what he does.   And it's fair to say thT Overdorf has survived because he has adapted to the process.   The process is all about total commitment to the team and continuous personal improvement.  Overdorf has goals and objectives that are established for him by Beane and Overdorf jointly; Overdorf buys into the goals and objectives and he must be achieving them or he'd be gone.  That's the way the process works.  

 

Changing the subject slightly, one thing that gives me hope for the offense this season is that the Bills kept Daboll.  Part of working in the process is continuous improvement.   The special teams under performed in a variety of ways, and Crossman is gone.  The oline under performed and the oline coach is gone.  I'm guessing that  McBeane's evaluation process told them that the special teams problem was at the special teams coach level, but the evaluation told them the offensive problems were NOT at the offensive coordinator level.  I mean, no one would have been shocked if the Bills had fired Daboll after last season.  The fact that they didn't says to me that the Bills have a high level of confidence that Daboll can do the job, based on how he performed last season.  That is, Daboll survived like Overdorf has survived.   

 

Which leads me to expect two things that we've talked about here extensively:  1.  Josh Allen is going to be completing a lot more passes to underneath receivers, because he will be told by Daboll, repeatedly, to take the high percentage throw.  2.  The receivers who play will be receivers who catch the ball well.  That's why they got Beasley; they've said as much.  He's going to be Allen's security blanket, as he was Prescott's - "when all else fails, Josh, Cole will be where you expect him to be - throw it to him."  And, I'd guess they're hoping, Duke will be another.  He'll run the route and he'll fight like hell to catch the ball.  "And, Josh, you see that really big guy?  That's Tyler Kroft.  You can expect to see him out there, too.   And, by the way, you already know Robert Foster, and this guy here is John Brown.  When the defense gets tired of letting you complete passes to Cole and Duke or Zay and Kroft, they'll bring the safety down to plug the middle.  That's when you'll see Foster or Brown running past their defenders, heading for the end zone.  When that happens, throw it to them."     And I think that this vision is very clearly on Daboll's plate - he knows it's his job to make it happen.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....good, bad or indifferent, it seems to contradict the powers & control that Overdorf was given in 2008......certainly possible he ceded those powers....still being employed at OBD today, wonder what powers he currently has....and I STILL maintain the scurrilous Littman had financial veto powers, protecting his gratis 1% interest in the club courtesy of Ralph.....got a nice check for $14 mil when Pegs bought Bflo.......

 

 

As Yolo says.........Overdorf is actually well respected for his contract work.......the truth nobody wants to hear is that the cap situation wasn't really that bad........it was a talented veteran team it wasn't going to be $80M over the cap in the offseason.

 

The one terrible contract was the Dareus deal..........and not because of the AAV.....to that point in his career he had been a monster DT against the run and the pass.   An All Pro by definition.    The issue was the lack of language to protect the team in the event of another suspension.    The Pegula's meddled in that deal to get it done and appease their buddy Todd France.   If there had been a GM in place to draw a line on value vs risk..... like Beane.......that kind of deal doesn't happen without a conduct clause.   

 

I've been critical of both Whaley and Beane for their individual failings but the lengths people go to trash Whaley and over-prop Beane are a bit ridiculous. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 hours ago, MJS said:

I disagree. He looks very slow to me. I highly doubt he will even make the team.

 

I understand your point, however his 40 time is similar to some of the greatest WRs in history, including the GOAT.  So while he may not be a burner, his speed is more than capable to not only succeed in the NFL but also not be limited.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/993810

 

And he is in a situation where there is speed outside already on this team and he can work the sidelines and mid field as a big catch radius, move the chains, and Redzone target for Allen.  

 

Obviously he he has a lot to prove still, but I do think he is in the ideal spot for him to crack an NFL roster.  And he could compete more than people think for relevant playing time given his unique skill set compliments the speed guys so well.  

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wait.........Logic said Whaley handed out bad contracts?

 

There was a significant disconnect between the GM and the contracts being done during the Nix/Whaley era.  

 

If your owners are the Rooney's or the Mara's that might work.............but when your owners have no idea how to run an NFL team they need a GM who can be involved in all aspects of personnel......including contracts.

 

Also, who were the bad contracts?  Dareus I assume.  Guess what? An all pro DT gets paid a lot of money.  The same people saying how bad the Dareus contract was are the same ones who would have cried if we let him walk for nothing. 

 

Some breaking news here: good players cost money.  I would take a motivated Dareus on his contract over Star on his.  

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

 

Yes they do, but like I just posted his speed is the same as Jerry Rice, and he’s bigger.  He could be the next Anquan Boldin, who also had a similar 40 time. They said he was too slow then set an NFL rookie reception record.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As Yolo says.........Overdorf is actually well respected for his contract work.......the truth nobody wants to hear is that the cap situation wasn't really that bad........it was a talented veteran team it wasn't going to be $80M over the cap in the offseason.

 

The one terrible contract was the Dareus deal..........and not because of the AAV.....to that point in his career he had been a monster DT against the run and the pass.   An All Pro by definition.    The issue was the lack of language to protect the team in the event of another suspension.    The Pegula's meddled in that deal to get it done and appease their buddy Todd France.   If there had been a GM in place to draw a line on value vs risk..... like Beane.......that kind of deal doesn't happen without a conduct clause.   

 

I've been critical of both Whaley and Beane for their individual failings but the lengths people go to trash Whaley and over-prop Beane are a bit ridiculous. 

I'm guilty of over-proping Beane because I don't thing he's failed seriously at anything yet. 

 

But you're right about Whaley.  And you're right about the Bills not being in cap trouble; all that happened was with a new coach and GM there was a new philosophy about how to build a culture and a team, and several guys with big contracts didn't fit the philosophy, so they had to go.   Whaley had a pretty clear vision, but he hadn't gotten the right coach or QB yet.   Beane had a different vision, which required a house cleaning.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes they do, but like I just posted his speed is the same as Jerry Rice, and he’s bigger.  He could be the next Anquan Boldin, who also had a similar 40 time. They said he was too slow then set an NFL rookie reception record.

 

 

It is with great honor I pass my crown as biggest homer on the board to you.  Wear it well!

 

and I do respect your football knowledge.  I do think you are completely biased in your Bills’ takes but I do wish I had some of that optimism.  These years have taken a toll on me. ?

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Those 4” (?) don’t matter if you can’t separate. 

 

 

That's the big question with Duke.........we will find out in camp/preseason.     In the CFL the CB's are smaller so they can be manhandled by big receivers.   He also didn't have to do a lot of complex route running on that big field.    In the NFL everybody has a 6'2" corner or two nowadays..........it won't be surprising in the least if he can't get open.    Most of the things he's going to need to do to make it in the NFL you just don't see on his CFL tape.      

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It is with great honor I pass my crown as biggest homer on the board to you.  Wear it well!

 

and I do respect your football knowledge.  I do think you are completely biased in your Bills’ takes but I do wish I had some of that optimism.  These years have taken a toll on me. ?

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   The point is some people are saying he can’t play in the NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

Edited April 6, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's the big question with Duke.........we will find out in camp/preseason.     In the CFL the CB's are smaller so they can be manhandled by big receivers.   He also didn't have to do a lot of complex route running on that big field.    In the NFL everybody has a 6'2" corner or two nowadays..........it won't be surprising in the least if he can't get open.    Most of the things he's going to need to do to make it in the NFL you just don't see on his CFL tape.      

Yeah, I don’t think fans realize how different the CFL is than the nfl, especially for receivers.  The bigger field and running vertical starts.  It was much difficult for a pass rusher like Cam Wake with CFL rules.  

 

Either way, it’s a no lose situation.  

[Kirby Jackson]

On 2/6/2019 at 3:45 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

Just closely watched these highlights. The guy is arguably a more complete receiver than anyone coming out of college this year. He has speed (why did he run only a 4.72 at the combine?), separation, elevation, ability to catch in traffic and is elusive enough to rack up YAC. Almost every throw he catches at its highest point (except for the one where he was unsighted and it hits his helmet - he still comes up with it). Enjoy!! Very Very underrated signing by the Bills - could have a shot at our #1 if he has really matured from his college days.

 

 

https://www.cover1.net/farhan-lalji-of-tsn-discusses-bills-signing-of-wr-duke-williams/

 

Report from a Vancouver reporter who watched him all year. 8-10 teams wanted him - but he chose Buffalo for the fit. Highlights fit with josh Allen due to catch radius and high pointing the catch.

 

Coaches from CFL lauded his humility, focus hard work etc.

He didn’t choose Buffalo because of the fit. He chose Buffalo because he has a shot to make the roster. Let’s be real...

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said aid in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   It the point is some people are saying he can’t play I t eh NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

This is where I am on the guy.  As I said, I love how he catches the ball.  

 

I also love his determination.  The stories about him are that he's gotten his head screwed on straight, finally, and he is a ferocious worker.   He's going to do everything possible to make the team.  In other words, he's McDermott's kind of guy.   I think his hands and his determination make him a good prospect to make the team.  If he doesn't, then he just wasn't good enough.  

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you clearly took my comments incorrectly.  I didn’t say he will be this or that, I was illustrating that other great WRs have succeeded with similar speed attributes.  And Duke looks and plays (in the CFL) as a clone of Boldin.  

 

I said in the previous post before this one you replied to that he has a lot to prove still.   The point is some people are saying he can’t play in the NFL because of his limited speed, I countered and said that’s not factually true given some of the greatest have succeeded with limited straight line speed too. 

 

That doesn’t make me a homer, that makes me someone who isnt going to dismiss a player based on something that isn’t accurate.  If he can run good routes and catch he has a real shot to make an NFL career.  

Well let’s just hope he doesn’t slide into any porn “star’s” DMs like the last Duke Williams.