If we stay at 9, the only player I’d really be happy with is...

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, CookieG said:

I acknowledged it in my first post...I just gave it a  "so what"?

 

2 280 lb. guys who together didn't produce what Aaron Donald did in college.

But you're basing similarities because they all weigh 280lbs?

mmmkay

 

To answer your second question, Donald was drafted around 12th in 2014

 

Again, so what?

 

Is there a point here? If we draft either Gary or Oliver at 9, either one becomes Aaron Donald?

 

Because whoever it is..he'd weigh about the same and would actually be drafted higher?

 

I'm not seeing an actual point here.

The point is that weight is a factor but far from the only factor. The person I replied to used weight as a reason to not draft him. I simply pointed out that there are successful d-linemen at that weight and I cautioned that I wasn’t comparing anything other than weight. Why you choose to continue to argue a point that doesn’t exist between us is beyond me.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Hard pass on Oliver. You just can't trust a guy to be committed to his craft when he openly fights his coach and then takes the rest of the season off.   

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 hours ago, wagne591 said:

HOF DT John Randle played at 287lbs....in order for Oliver to play like a beast he needs a bigger motor and mor3driv3 imo.  

He last played 16 years ago, everyone has gotten materially bigger since then.

 

Jeff Wright played NT at 273 lbs for the SB Bills, but such comparisons to today are apples and oranges imo.

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ed Oliver is still the #2 player on my board with a potential elite grade. If he is there at #9 I'd turn the card in inside the first 30 seconds. 

So who is your #1 players, Bosa?

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

So who is your #1 players, Bosa?

 

Yes.

[ctk232]

16 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’m a little concerned about Oliver’s (under) size.  A DT at his size HAS to be dynamic and you have to realize that your run D is likely to suffer if you are playing a 280lb DT.

So I wondered this as well, but given our current DL, I'd entertain lining him up at the 5 tech first - he's got the speed and power to blow through outside tackles and push the edge and would be reminiscent of Bruce off the edge to me. I'm also not sure I buy into the myth of a one-dimensional DT based on weight and size, though I understand how that sounds. Rashan Gary kind of falls into the same boat as Oliver in that regard, and Simmons seems to be moving up boards as well. There might actually be a push for the more agile DT in our already established rotation - Shaq played some three tech this past season at 260 lb and held his own, so I'm not sure I'd completely agree with the size assessment for someone more suited (experience wise) for the position in someone like Oliver. 

 

To add further context to the weight and size of DTs - Aaron Donald is sitting at 284 so I'm not sure what the difference in four pounds will do with Oliver's kind of athleticism.

 

I also like the idea of Ferrell in a 3/5tech role, but it really depends on which, if either is still even there at 9.

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

16 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

NO... at this point, it's who I DON'T WANT... and that's Oliver. I did not like his childish stunt on the sideline over a jacket, combined with the fact we don't need to draft a DL so damn high. Anyone but that guy...

Yikes.

13 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

we should trade up for Josh Allen, just to confuse the *&%$ out of the announcers

Ya. Because they’ll constantly confuse our QB with a guy that plays on defense.

 

Imagine the craziness!

[noacls]

15 hours ago, CookieG said:

Im not blinded by anything...

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aaron-donald-1.html

 

2013

 

28 TFL

11 sacks.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316422/article/pittsburghs-aaron-donald-looks-dominant-in-senior-bowl-drills

 

 

 

 

Ed Oliver

53 tackles for loss and 13.5 sacks in 32 games

3 time all American 

2 time conference defensive player of the year. I would say Donald's and Oliver's college pedigree are pretty even. Oliver was also a 5* recruit.  Other than the hiccups after his injury he had been everything the Bill's are looking for. 

 

Also I'm not saying Oliver will be Donald in pros but it is apples to apples coming out of college.

[billsfan89]

17 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’m a little concerned about Oliver’s (under) size.  A DT at his size HAS to be dynamic and you have to realize that your run D is likely to suffer if you are playing a 280lb DT.

 

I think the O-line and D-line game is getting smaller, similar to what happened to the NBA with big men. Oliver would be a steal at pick 9, the reason Donald fell to the mid first round was mostly due to concerns about him being undersized. I don't think the Oliver Donald comparison is necessarily accurate but I think Oliver could be a very dynamic DT.

[Buffalo Junction]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There are quite a few I would be happy with at 9.  If a team identifies a player as one they covet, there is no wrong spot to take them.  Trade downs are great, but the reality is there are several factors when considering a trade to get the same player you would take at (in this scenario) #9.  

1. Is there anyone who wants to trade up to our spot?
2. Would we still be able to get one of our coveted players at the new draft spot if we trade down or are they expected to be gone before that pick?
3. If we trade down, is there someone else likely to try and leap frog us and draft the player we covet?

Now, there are a number of things working in our favor this year for a potential trade down

• Defensively top heavy, meaning our spot should be a good spot to nab a QB.
• Washington has a bad prognosis on Alex Smith, so we could be a perfect trade partner.
  • Additionally, Redskis are at 15 and if we covet a WR, there are no teams between 10 and 14 expected to draft a WR, so we should have our pick of one at 15.  
  • Furthermore, this is a deep WR class with the top 7 WRs all closely bunched up, so not likely someone will trade UP for one into picks 10-14 to leap frog us.  There isn't huge gaps between any of the grades of the top 7 WRs or so.  So less incentive to move up for one.  

So I am actually mocking the Bills to trade down with the Redskins at 15 and I think the pick will be a WR, and my choice (before the combines) right now is N'Keal Harry.  

Depending on how the edge rushers pan out GB might be in play as well. Something along the lines of our 1 & 2 for both their 1’s with a later pick being used to adjust values. 

[CNYfan]

I may be wrong, but I am hoping Oliver is gone so I do not have to battle this dilemma

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I will be furious if we take a defensive player anywhere in the first 3 rounds. At some point you have to start fixing the team. The defense is built. Move on.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I will be furious if we take a defensive player anywhere in the first 3 rounds. At some point you have to start fixing the team. The defense is built. Move on.

 

I'd be furious if we didn't take a pass rusher at some point in the first 3 rounds. It is a super talented pass rushing class and we have a big need there.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd be furious if we didn't take a pass rusher at some point in the first 3 rounds. It is a super talented pass rushing class and we have a big need there.

I just don’t agree with us having a big need there. Hughes and Alexander are both above avg pass rushers and we have other guys that are solid

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I just don’t agree with us having a big need there. Hughes and Alexander are both above avg pass rushers and we have other guys that are solid

 

They are 31 and 36. And this is a terrific class. And it is the second most important position on the team after QB. And I don't think the depth behind those two is solid at all. I think it is not good enough. Shaq is a good player but his strengths are not rushing the passer and Trent Murphy looks injured even when he is not. 

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I just don’t agree with us having a big need there. Hughes and Alexander are both above avg pass rushers and we have other guys that are solid

Lorax has one season left and Jerry is 30+. We're talking about the most important position defensively. It's a big need and this is a great draft to find one.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Lorax has one season left and Jerry is 30+. We're talking about the most important position defensively. It's a big need and this is a great draft to find one.

We need to fix the offense period. There are good D linen in every draft. We have guys that are still playing at a high level on defense. Just get the QB some help.

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

We need to fix the offense period. There are good D linen in every draft. We have guys that are still playing at a high level on defense. Just get the QB some help.

If you neglect an entire side of the field in ANY offseason, you damn well better be prepared to see that unit deteriorate. It's not like the defense doesn't have room to improve. RZ defense comes to mind. The only way to contain the top QB's is by getting in their mug all day. We do not have a dominant pass rusher and that's a problem.

Edited January 29, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Royale with Cheese]

I honestly wouldn’t complain if our pick at nine is the best pass rusher, WR, tackle, guard, center or penetrating DT.

 

It will all depend on what we fill in FA.

[NewEra]

To update my thoughts.  Oliver is still #1 on my board when considering players that could be available at 9.  I don’t think he’s going to fall that far.  He’s too good.  

 

After watching the a bunch of tape as well as the combine constantly, I’d have to add Jawaan Taylor in the mix.  I also really love Andre Dilliard as he could be the best pass protector. His feet are fun to watch.  I’d rather not take him at 9.  

 

If we took Devin White, I wouldn’t be angry.  He’d be BPA if Oliver is gone.  I think Tampa takes him at 5.I think he’ll be a better MLB than TE long term and it would give Edmunds the freedom to do much more.  Might not make the most sense as we have huge holes, but he’s a stud in today’s nfl.  

 

Jonah Williams.  Meh.  

 

DK Metcalf.  Meh.

 

Gary- meh.  His body language and facial expressions are just awful.  Can’t stand him.   

 

Christian Wilkins.  Maybe.  

 

Sweat-  meh.  Liability vs the run imo.  While adding pass rush is huge, stopping the pass is out best attribute.  We need a full time pass rusher that can do both going forward.

 

 Hockenson-  I wouldn’t be angry.  I’ve long wanted a premier TE.  Would much rather trade down than draft him at 9 though 

 

Cody ford- meh.  Prefer the other OLmen 

 

greedy williams.  We’d have the best secondary in the league by far.  One of the best ever.  Prefer to go elsewhere as we’d be wasting talent as Levi wouldn’t play much and I think he’s a gamer.  Taron is a tank at the nickel 

 

 

 

[billspro]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

To update my thoughts.  Oliver is still #1 on my board when considering players that could be available at 9.  I don’t think he’s going to fall that far.  He’s too good.  

 

After watching the a bunch of tape as well as the combine constantly, I’d have to add Jawaan Taylor in the mix.  I also really love Andre Dilliard as he could be the best pass protector. His feet are fun to watch.  I’d rather not take him at 9.  

 

If we took Devin White, I wouldn’t be angry.  He’d be BPA if Oliver is gone.  I think Tampa takes him at 5.I think he’ll be a better MLB than TE long term and it would give Edmunds the freedom to do much more.  Might not make the most sense as we have huge holes, but he’s a stud in today’s nfl.  

 

Jonah Williams.  Meh.  

 

DK Metcalf.  Meh.

 

Gary- meh.  His body language and facial expressions are just awful.  Can’t stand him.   

 

Christian Wilkins.  Maybe.  

 

Sweat-  meh.  Liability vs the run imo.  While adding pass rush is huge, stopping the pass is out best attribute.  We need a full time pass rusher that can do both going forward.

 

 Hockenson-  I wouldn’t be angry.  I’ve long wanted a premier TE.  Would much rather trade down than draft him at 9 though 

 

Cody ford- meh.  Prefer the other OLmen 

 

greedy williams.  We’d have the best secondary in the league by far.  One of the best ever.  Prefer to go elsewhere as we’d be wasting talent as Levi wouldn’t play much and I think he’s a gamer.  Taron is a tank at the nickel 

 

 

 

 

I really hope we draft Jawaan Taylor. It is starting to look like he will go before our pick unfortunately. I would be happy with Oliver, White, or Hockenson though.

[BillsFan1988]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:58 AM, NewEra said:

Ed Oliver. We could line him up anywhere along the DL and let him wreak havoc.  Impact player.  

 

No chance Bosa, Q Williams or Josh Allen will be there.  

 

Anyone else isnt worth not trading down for ino.  The tackle options are solid, yet wouldn’t be BPA imo.  The DTs other than Oliver are good but not spectacular in my current opinion.  Ferrell could be the only other guy I could get excited about but would still rather trade down.  Devin Bush or Devin White?  Great player but plays a position I think we may be set in.  Unless they wanted the luxury of playing Edmunds at SLB and Bush/white ILB, Milano WLB.  Ehhh. 

 

Is there just ONE guy that you’re focusing on and hope that we get?  

I don't think Oliver will be available at #9 . I see Tampa at #5 being his spot.

[ColdFront_USAF]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:10 AM, Cripple Creek said:

Not comparing talent, only weight...Aaron Donald has made a nice living moving up and down the d-line at around 280 lbs.

 For sure. I'm a big fan of Oliver, but when comparing him to Donald, you have to keep in mind that Donald is probably the freakiest athlete to ever play his position. Oliver may be close, but even his biggest supporters in the scouting circles won't say outright that he's the next Aaron Donald. 

 

That being said, a lot of his college highlights actually came in the run game, as in his insane amounts of TFL. I think Oliver would be an absolute steal at 9. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Not Process.

 

he isnt Aaron Donald. Pass.

 

 

On 1/28/2019 at 7:49 PM, EasternOHBillsFan said:

NO... at this point, it's who I DON'T WANT... and that's Oliver. I did not like his childish stunt on the sideline over a jacket, combined with the fact we don't need to draft a DL so damn high. Anyone but that guy...

 

Amen  brother!

 

Its really hard to get ones personal favorite. It really comes down who you don't want. For me that is Oliver and Marquise Brown.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:50 PM, formerlyofCtown said:

Aaron Donald is 6'1" 280.  What type of 280 is it.  Is he riped.

Sorry but that doesnt bother me much.  I want Suh not McCargo.

 

its not about the jacket but the willful disobedience and disrespect on the sideline for all to see. If the coach cant command his team he is done. Oliver doesn't fit this team.

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

its not about the jacket but the willful disobedience and disrespect on the sideline for all to see. If the coach cant command his team he is done. Oliver doesn't fit this team.

 

 

Maybe not or maybe that dumb*** coach needed to get more jackets.

[NewEra]

Almost 3 months later.  Lots and lots of game tape reviewed.  Hundreds of scouting reports read.  Learned lots from everyone here at TSW.  

 

But my initial impression was spot on.  If Ed Oliver is available, take him.  If not, do your best to trade down into the mid to high teens.  Preferably not lower and if we do, make sure we get a 1st rd pick this year or both of the raiders or packers 1st rd picks this year.

 

There are 5 elite players in this draft.  Quinnen Williams, Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, Devin White and Ed Oliver.  I’d like to position ourselves to get one of the above. At this point, I think there’s a 5% chance one of the 5 falls to 9.  Most wouldn’t want to give up a 1st next year or even 40 this year to trade up, so we have to hope one of them falls to 7 and we can give up our 3rd +.  

 

All unlikely.  Just hours away and at this point, we have to get really lucky and hope someone slips.  If not, Beane would really win me over if he can grab an extra 2nd and move down a few spots.  I realize that many here have been saying this for months.  As have I.  

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 7:23 PM, wagne591 said:

HOF DT John Randle played at 287lbs....in order for Oliver to play like a beast he needs a bigger motor and mor3driv3 imo.  

He might have been listed at 287 but I strongly doubt that he weighed that much.

[MrEpsYtown]

Oliver is the guy. It's so perfect that it's crazy. Outside of Oliver I am intrigued by TJ Hockenson. Obviously I love Bosa, Williams, Allen but those seem unrealistic.I would be disappointed with most other outcomes. I'd be okay with Christian Wilkins and I think he will go higher than a lot of people think. I could sell myself on Jonah Williams or Jawaan Taylor. I love Dalton Risner and think he'd be perfect in a trade down.  

[auburnbillsbacker]

Oliver or a trade down.  

[NewEra]

On 1/28/2019 at 4:00 PM, LSHMEAB said:

Reverse Ferrell and Oliver for me, but if we stay at 9, I'd love to see either one these guys be the pick.

You still don’t believe this do you? ?

[Rocket94]

On 1/29/2019 at 2:23 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

They are 31 and 36. And this is a terrific class. And it is the second most important position on the team after QB. And I don't think the depth behind those two is solid at all. I think it is not good enough. Shaq is a good player but his strengths are not rushing the passer and Trent Murphy looks injured even when he is not. 

Someone would have to be blind not to see this. Hughes is still above average, and he would benefit from a better DT and improved edge help. Murphy and Lawson are not the answer. The Bills need Lorax's successor as well.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Rocket94

[Yoho]

One thing I am a little confused about.  I keep reading that if no one is available at 9 we should trade back to get more picks and not overreach at 9.

 

If there is no one worth drafting at 9, who exactly is going to trade up to get a pick that is not worth a 9th pick?  Why are there all these assumptions that we will find a trading partner who will trade value to get to 9?  The only way that happens is if there is some kind of run on quarterbacks.  That seems increasingly unlikely. 

 

I guess the best hope is Daniel Snyder.

[ganesh]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:28 AM, NewEra said:

Ed Oliver. We could line him up anywhere along the DL and let him wreak havoc.  Impact player.  

 

No chance Bosa, Q Williams or Josh Allen will be there.  

 

Anyone else isnt worth not trading down for ino.  The tackle options are solid, yet wouldn’t be BPA imo.  The DTs other than Oliver are good but not spectacular in my current opinion.  Ferrell could be the only other guy I could get excited about but would still rather trade down.  Devin Bush or Devin White?  Great player but plays a position I think we may be set in.  Unless they wanted the luxury of playing Edmunds at SLB and Bush/white ILB, Milano WLB.  Ehhh. 

 

Is there just ONE guy that you’re focusing on and hope that we get?  

Which means Oliver is unlikely to be there at 9...just like Bosa, Williams and Allen!!

7 minutes ago, Yoho said:

One thing I am a little confused about.  I keep reading that if no one is available at 9 we should trade back to get more picks and not overreach at 9.

 

If there is no one worth drafting at 9, who exactly is going to trade up to get a pick that is not worth a 9th pick?  Why are there all these assumptions that we will find a trading partner who will trade value to get to 9?  The only way that happens is if there is some kind of run on quarterbacks.  That seems increasingly unlikely. 

 

I guess the best hope is Daniel Snyder.

I guess it will be for a QB.  Otherwise, no trade up is going to happen for "Not worth at 9" players !!!!

[Chuck Wagon]

If you consider Bosa / Williams / Allen to be unrealistic, I'm really hoping for Oliver, White or a trade down.

 

Basically echo what NewEra said.  I think there's 5 "blue chip" guys and would love to get one of them (willing to trade up to do it, I'm more willing to give up pick 40 if we get a ~4th back than most).  Absent those 5 guys, we are likely to get the same level player at 9 as at ~15.

[Rocket94]

I have a feeling that Beane wants one of the top five. So do several other teams. How about a trade with Tampa at 5? A package from Tampa that includes Gerald McCoy as well?

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Which means Oliver is unlikely to be there at 9...just like Bosa, Williams and Allen!!

I guess it will be for a QB.  Otherwise, no trade up is going to happen for "Not worth at 9" players !!!!

Yes. Read the post that isn’t from January. 

3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

If you consider Bosa / Williams / Allen to be unrealistic, I'm really hoping for Oliver, White or a trade down.

 

Basically echo what NewEra said.  I think there's 5 "blue chip" guys and would love to get one of them (willing to trade up to do it, I'm more willing to give up pick 40 if we get a ~4th back than most).  Absent those 5 guys, we are likely to get the same level player at 9 as at ~15.

Amen!

[LSHMEAB]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:19 AM, NewEra said:

You still don’t believe this do you? ?

No. But thanks for the reminder. I was really high on Ferrell before the poking, prodding, and digging of the draft process. I still think he's got a chance to be a very good player, but I ultimately viewed him as a mid to late first. The more I read of Oliver and the role he was asked to play at Houston, the more I was interested. In retrospect, it's really not a surprise he and the coach had some issues.

 

It was obviously a shock when Oakland took Ferrell at 4, but the Raiders gonna RaIder.

 

VERY happy with the Oliver selection.

Edited April 26, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

No. But thanks for the reminder. I was really high on Ferrell before the poking, prodding, and digging of the draft process. I still think he's got a chance to be a very good player, but I ultimately viewed him as a mid to late first. The more I read of Oliver and the role he was asked to play at Houston, the more I was interested. In retrospect, it's really not a surprise he and the coach had some issues.

 

It was obviously a shock when Oakland took Ferrell at 4, but the Raiders gonna RaIder.

 

VERY happy with the Oliver selection.

Mayock agreed with you!!!  THANK GOD!!