Clashing in Cleveland: How Hue Jackson, Jimmy Haslam and Baker Mayfield collided (and how they almost hired Sean McDermott)

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Even better was the follow-up "Haslam told the group he felt Jackson could relate better to players."

 

Surprised they didn't mention if Haslam tried to have any input on drafting Mayfield - the lack of any mention of that probably shows Dorsey was able to have control and get the guys he wanted without meddling from the owner.   Also, it seems Mayfield really hated Hue - seems like he probably had "input" into getting rid of him and with the Kitchens hire - but no real stories that got into that.

 

Can you imagine a situation where the OC is walking around saying "1-31" to disparage the coach.  That's pretty hard core dysfunction.

He did and I think those stories are out there. I posted the one about the Kitchens hire. Hue publically blamed Baker for getting fired. 

42 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He said it to Dorsey, not Haslam, but it was still Hue-ish.

 

This is a great article, one of the best I've ever read on management dysfunction in pro sports.  Just fascinating.  Lots for me to process still.

I had read this too - not sure which version is accurate 

http://m.tmz.com/#!2019/01/24/hue-jackson-browns-owner-jimmy-haslem/

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hue saying  “get the f*** out of my office” to the person who literally owns his office is the most Hue-ish thing ever

 

Well, to give Hue his due, he was saying it in the context of being told he was fired.

 

 

[cle23]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Mayfield has been good, but letting him choose the HC may have been a little premature (i like Kitchens btw, just saying the process raised some eyebrows). Depodesta wanted Stefanski.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Baker-Mayfield-Browns-head-coach-Kevin-Stefanski-Freddie-Kitchens-127644466/Amp/

 

I'm not sure which is true because right after kitchens was hired it was reported multiple places that Baker was never consulted at all about which coach to hire. Florio is a Steelers fan so it's hard to tell when it comes to stuff like this if it's accurate. He trashes the Browns as many chances he can get.

[Augie]

For better or worse, it all starts at the top....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Good news for Browns fans is they're going to be a major player in the AFC for the next decade. I thought they were a playoff team last year if Hue wasn't the coach and Baker was starting. I expect them to win their division next year.

 

You know, I have a soft spot in my heart for Browns fans.  They have suffered in some ways, worse than Bills fans.

 

But I'll wait and see.  This will not be the first year that I would  expressed agreement with you "wow, the Browns are finally poised to go somewhere!" only to see the wheels fall off.

 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, cle23 said:

 

I'm not sure which is true because right after kitchens was hired it was reported multiple places that Baker was never consulted at all about which coach to hire. Florio is a Steelers fan so it's hard to tell when it comes to stuff like this if it's accurate. He trashes the Browns as many chances he can get.

 

I’m guessing that’s would be a whole lot! 

[Just Joshin']

It will be interesting to see how this plays out:  wildcard Mayfield with a dysfunctional organization.  It could blow up huge.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Mayfield has been good, but letting him choose the HC may have been a little premature (i like Kitchens btw, just saying the process raised some eyebrows). Depodesta wanted Stefanski.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Baker-Mayfield-Browns-head-coach-Kevin-Stefanski-Freddie-Kitchens-127644466/Amp/

 

Am I the only one who considers that a final choice between Stefanski and Kitchens may be indicative of a flawed hiring process?  I don't find either of them inspiring, but if I had to pick, Kitchens >> Stephanski.

 

I have encountered execs who fit the profile described for Haslam.  They feel that they're "in the know" because they talk directly to their "little people", but actually they gather a scattershot picture biased by the last guy they chat up in the hall.

[Just Joshin']

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Am I the only one who considers that a final choice between Stefanski and Kitchens may be indicative of a flawed hiring process?  I don't find either of them inspiring, but if I had to pick, Kitchens >> Stephanski.

 

I have encountered execs who fit the profile described for Haslam.  They feel that they're "in the know" because they talk directly to their "little people", but actually they gather a scattershot picture biased by the last guy they chat up in the hall.

This style  sounds like triangulation where instead of doing his own analysis talks to many folks.  This leads to agendas and bad decision making.  IMO one of the worst management styles as you have no vision, just many conflicting opinions.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Good news for Browns fans is they're going to be a major player in the AFC for the next decade. I thought they were a playoff team last year if Hue wasn't the coach and Baker was starting. I expect them to win their division next year.

Even if you don’t take this article at face value, watching how this ownership operates the team - the question of “can Jimmy Haslam get in the way of Baker Mayfield’s success?” seems like a fair question to ask.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Just Joshin' said:

This style  sounds like triangulation where instead of doing his own analysis talks to many folks.  This leads to agendas and bad decision making.  IMO one of the worst management styles as you have no vision, just many conflicting opinions.

 

Exactly.  It's one thing to sanity check an analysis by talking to people.  It's something else when talking to people becomes a substitute for analysis.

 

Who was it in the Steelers org who said "hire good people and give them time to figure it out"?  Sounds like even when Haslam hires good people, the second part is MIA.

[Bangarang]

This is amazing. Whaley would be so proud of this.

 

It was like broadcasting talk radio over the entire building, and one day in particular, it was worse than that. One of the marketing staffers entered a search for #dp -- for Dawg Pound. The problem was, that hashtag carried a few different meanings, one of which triggered an array of porn to be broadcast onto a wall for the entire office to see for more than 20 minutes, until a tech employee killed the feed.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Bangarang said:

This is amazing. Whaley would be so proud of this.

 

 

 

They did interview him for GM at one point. He leaves a little sparkle wherever he goes 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Even if you don’t take this article at face value, watching how this ownership operates the team - the question of “can Jimmy Haslam get in the way of Baker Mayfield’s success?” seems like a fair question to ask.

 

I felt that the Browns have the ingredients for success before, only to watch them implode (the Manziel circus, the Gordon sideshow).  This article shows why.

[Watkins90]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Would McD have picked Cleveland over Buffalo?  I have my doubts about that one.

Hue was hired the season before McDermott came to Buffalo. There was no choice, as Rex was still our head coach. 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Wo-Bah said:

I guess we don't have it so bad here.

 

Being better than the worst was a common refrain here during the late RW years as Buffalo toed the dysfunction line.  The effect of an owner like Haslam flip-flopping all the time is no one wants to work for you, regardless of it being a NFL franchise. 

 

Thankfully, the last of the Wilson cronies is out and the Bills hopefully are under better front office management, although I've heard rumblings that the Pegula's are involved on certain decisions I'd rather they not be.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

I was going to just post this and I see it's already being discussed.

 

I found it interesting that Haslam passed on Bridgewater because he didn't like his handshake and he hired Hue Jackson over Sean McDermott because he could better relate to players. It seems as if Haslam thought he was still in Tennessee. The article points out that the NFL was his first experience in diversity. Putting all of this together, I think Haslam is in over his head with respect to a diverse work environment and judging people and players. If any of you watch Undercover Boss, you know how badly some of these executive types relate to ordinary people and the business they operate and it sometimes can be embarrassing.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, dpberr said:

"DePodesta wrote Haslam an email arguing that the Jackson hire went against many of the characteristics of successful coaches they had discussed. Brown met with Haslam -- there's always a race to be the last one to talk to Haslam before a big decision -- and told him he thought hiring Jackson would be a bad call. "I hear you," Haslam said."

 

In any field, a sign of a bad owner or manager is to go out of your way to hire intelligent people and then prevent them from doing the job you're paying them to do.  

 

 

 

Haslam has always operated that way. 

[BillyWhiteShows]

A real bombshell of an article.  I would love to read an account of the Bills during the final decade of Ralph Wilson’s ownership.  I feel that you would see many of the same missteps.  It’s probably not anywhere big enough for Wickersham to even look into

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out:  wildcard Mayfield with a dysfunctional organization.  It could blow up huge.

 

...Dorsey is the steadying influence....Haslam cannot afford to lose him....needs to stay out of the way.....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...Dorsey is the steadying influence....Haslam cannot afford to lose him....needs to stay out of the way.....

 

Dorsey, I think, is a football guy who genuinely 'knows something'. 

The question is whether Haslam can actually change his stripes and stay out of Haslam's way, even if he consciously wants to.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Wo-Bah said:

I guess we don't have it so bad here.

Take a look at the roster McBeane has put together compared to Cleveland and you may want to rethink that. 

[Logic]

Such an excellent and interesting read. Great job by Wickersham here.

With regard to the importance of having a good owner, I always think of Marv Levy's autobiography. The part of Marv's book that stood out the most to me -- and which made me very depressed at the time -- was his saying that in order for a team to have consistent success, it needs to start at the top: Good ownership. That quote got me down in the dumps because, while I loved Ralph Wilson and appreciate all he did for the city of Buffalo, he was in the last years of his life and was, at the time I read it, an absentee owner most known for not wanting to pay his coaches or players. I saw the dysfunction trickling down from him, to the carousel of bad GMs, to the second rate coaches, and concluded the Bills were a hopeless cause. But then a funny thing happened: The Pegulas purchased the team, committed to keeping it in Buffalo, made it clear that they would spare no expense in upgrading facilities, hiring coaches, paying players, etc, and restored hope where it was lacking.

I feel confident in the present and future of the Buffalo Bills, from the top down. I also feel bad for fan bases who don't get to feel that way. Devoted fans who have to put up with the Dan Snyders, Jimmy Haslams, and Mike Browns of the world. I am so thankful that we are not in that situation. I am so thankful for the Pegulas. 

On a side note: I'd LOVE to read a similar piece about the  Brandon, Whaley, Marrone, Rex years of the Bills. It's probably for the best that that's all in the past and not in the public eye, though.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Logic

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Take a look at the roster McBeane has put together compared to Cleveland and you may want to rethink that. 

 

What are you talking about?

[Warcodered]

6 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Good news for Browns fans is they're going to be a major player in the AFC for the next decade. I thought they were a playoff team last year if Hue wasn't the coach and Baker was starting. I expect them to win their division next year.

After reading this article I don't know it kind of feels like they accidentally tripped into a good position and gives me zero confidence they won't find a way to stumble back out of it.

[Nextmanup]

When an organization is this much of a tire fire for a sustained period of time, look no further than ownership.  That's the source of the problem.

 

 

[TigerJ]

I may think twice about buying gas at Pilot or Flying J (Haslam's companies) again.

[Big Turk]

Wow this is crazy!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I may think twice about buying gas at Pilot or Flying J (Haslam's companies) again.

 

Thought the article said he'd sold off to Berkshire Hathaway?

[YoloinOhio]

25 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

After reading this article I don't know it kind of feels like they accidentally tripped into a good position and gives me zero confidence they won't find a way to stumble back out of it.

They are definitely drafting better. But there is a reason Andy Reid got rid of Dorsey. He’s a mess with the cap and very disorganized. He will need to be reeled in - they have a lot of strong personalities in one room there and they all want a voice. Highsmith, Wolfe, depodesta. At least kitchens reports to him and not Haslam. Part of the reason they didn’t want to interview Arians, McCarthy, or mcdaniels is because they would want more control and more voice than guys like Kitchens and Sefanski. Also why G-Dub is gone. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[LSHMEAB]

The more I think about the Hue/Baker rift, the more I think back to the scene on Hard Knocks where Jackson acted like giving Mayfield the backup job was some kind of crowning achievement. A guy like Mayfield certainly doesn't forget a thing like that. Congratulations number 1 pick in the draft, you've beaten out Drew Stanton! Now don't let this go to your head young fella.

[TigerJ]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thought the article said he'd sold off to Berkshire Hathaway?

I missed it.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out:  wildcard Mayfield with a dysfunctional organization.  It could blow up huge.

 

That's what I'm hoping for: a Wagerian ragnarok of epic proportions where everyone involved goes out in a blaze of dysfunctional glory.

 

It'd be too good.

 

[BillsFan4]

That was a crazy read. No wonder the Browns struggle so much. Wow. 

 

 

Also, this : 

 

Quote

Mayfield's Browns are not the old Browns. An aide ushers him into a small room inside M&T Bank Stadium where many of the game's legends have autographed a white wall. Ozzie Newsome. Peyton Manning. John Harbaugh. John Elway. Baker scribbles his name and leaves his mark, penning his jersey No. 6 -- the seventh-highest seller in the NFL in 2018 -- below "Mayfield."

 

I wonder if they asked him to write his name, or if he just took it upon himself (my guess is the latter. Seems more mayfield-like to me...lol)

[fergie's ire]

6 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

 

A. This is HILARIOUS

 

B. In their defense, there's no other meanings attached to billsmafia and if you searched it, it may resemble a porno...

#bm?  Might be kinda dirty.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BillsFan4]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

In years past I would have easily agreed with the Bills being on this list (and I’d have argued that they should be much higher). But I don’t really see anything that is disfunctional about the Bills these days. Everyone in the building seems in lock step, and all the embarrassing leaks to the press have been plugged. 

 

I guess the Bills still have to prove themselves though. 2 years don’t make up for decades of disfunction.... lol. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

In years past I would have easily agreed with the Bills being on this list (and I’d have argued that they should be much higher). But I don’t really see anything that is disfunctional about the Bills these days. Everyone in the building seems in lock step, and all the embarrassing leaks to the press have been plugged. 

 

I guess the Bills still have to prove themselves though. 2 years don’t make up for decades of disfunction.... lol. 

Agree and agree 

[Happy]

Interesting to see Pittsburgh at #5; this wouldn't have been so just a couple of years ago.  Pretty big knock on Tomlin, who seems to be in over his head as of late.  He's going to have to do pretty bad next season for his seat to get warm, though.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

Interesting to see Pittsburgh at #5; this wouldn't have been so just a couple of years ago.  Pretty big knock on Tomlin, who seems to be in over his head as of late.  He's going to have to do pretty bad next season for his seat to get warm, though.

They are #1 in my book. Their locker room was a circus this year.