Baltimore had 50 yards total offense going into the 4th quarter

[Billsfan1972]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I like Lamar Jackson a lot and I want him to do well but it was kinda great seeing him flop like that yesterday after hearing the media praise him the last 6 weeks and trash Josh Allen. Folks making excuses for a QB who had -2 passing yards at one point deep in the game. LOL!

[PetermansRedemption]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

This game gave me flashbacks to a poor version of Tyrod Circa the playoff game against Jacksonville. It was painful to watch Lamar until the Chargers let up. 

5 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I like Lamar Jackson a lot and I want him to do well but it was kinda great seeing him flop like that yesterday after hearing the media praise him the last 6 weeks and trash Josh Allen. Folks making excuses for a QB who had -2 passing yards at one point deep in the game. LOL!

-3 late in the third quarter I believe, it was pitiful. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Bills2ref

[PromoTheRobot]

But don't forget that Lamar is still better than Josh Allen because college completion pct.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I like Lamar Jackson a lot and I want him to do well but it was kinda great seeing him flop like that yesterday after hearing the media praise him the last 6 weeks and trash Josh Allen. Folks making excuses for a QB who had -2 passing yards at one point deep in the game. LOL!

 

"he only had 9 pass attempts in the first 3 quarters" - because he was sacked 5 times and fumbled twice.  That would make 14 pass plays.  

 

He also missed converting on some short 3rd downs in the first 3 quarters.  And the first drive of the 4th quarter - the MUST have if you want to have a shot at not needing tons of onside kicks.  3 pass plays called, -9 yards.  

[BillsFan130]

Lamar will need to throw in the pocket consistently if he wants to be a good franchise QB.

 

There is way too much running/scrambling going on

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lamar will need to throw in the pocket consistently if he wants to be a good franchise QB.

 

There is way too much running/scrambling going on

A faster, but lesser of a passer version of Tyrod. Lamar is young and may improve though. He has a lot of work to do. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

A faster, but lesser of a passer version of Tyrod. Lamar is young and may improve though. He has a lot of work to do. 

 

Tuhrod the Second.

 

A taller, skinnier Tuhrod.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lamar will need to throw in the pocket consistently if he wants to be a good franchise QB.

 

There is way too much running/scrambling going on

 

Well they got by using his legs less for scrambling but for designed runs.  Once that was taken away he struggled.  The nasty pass rush of LA didn't help matters.

[row_33]

Wild card weekend JV games

 

[Big Gun]

Harbaugh and Baltimore screwed up on this decision. 

 

Could they have won with Flacco? Don't know but Joe has been through and won tough games in the playoffs before. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Flacco asks and is traded this off season. 

 

That leaves Jackson and ??? as QBs next year. Not good going forward IMO. Didn't think Harbaugh would make that poor of a decision, oh well he can lay in that bed now, cause Jackson isn't the answer. 

[MJS]

Unless a QB can function as a pocket passer, it does not matter how great of a runner he is. You still have to be a QB.

 

We'll see how Jackson and Allen develop. My money is on Allen because I think he can function in the pocket more.

[racketmaster]

Lamar should be a decent qb option for 3-4 years because of his dynamic running ability (best I’ve ever seen from a qb). But he is a very limited passer and I don’t see him having much success beyond the first few years. 

Stage 1: Jackson has great initial success as defenses have never seen a quarterback with such dynamic running ability. At the outset, teams are taken off guard. 

1. Stage 2: Defenses will (as was the case this week) develop a game plan to defend him. Defensive coordinators always come up with a plan to limit a player now it will be up to Jackson to come up with a counter. Even though he will be limited by schemes, he is still a threat and not all defenses will be equipped or disciplined enough to stop him. If Baltimore continues to play great defense, they can still be a hard team to deal with. The player will have success against some teams and be limited by others who are equipped and disciplined enough.  

Stage 3: Running 25 times a game will begin to take its toll on his body. It happens to all players and once he starts to get banged up there will be pressure to change his style of play to become more of a pocket passer (the pressure to change will come from team executives, coaches, fans, family or Jackson himself). Once the player begins to see the expiration date on continuing to act as a runner the enivitable process toward becoming a pocket passsr begins. 

Stage 4: This is where the player typically takes a step back because they are no longer running as much and they are trying to play the position differently. Jackson’s passing skills seem rudimentary. If we were to force all qbs to stand in the pocket and outlaw any running or escaping the pocket, he would be near the bottom as far as pure pocket passing. Fortunately, for Jackson and players with similar skill sets he will still have escapabilty and make plays off scrambles even though he is not running many if at all designed runs. 

Stage 5 is Crossroads: player either develops as a passer and continues on with NFL career or player struggles with pocket passing and reverts back to trying to be more of a runner in order to maximize their value to the team. This likely won’t end well because player is usually less dynamic and injuries become more likely. Once injuries or poor play begin to be the norm the team decides to move on to a different option. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

Unless a QB can function as a pocket passer, it does not matter how great of a runner he is. You still have to be a QB.

 

We'll see how Jackson and Allen develop. My money is on Allen because I think he can function in the pocket more.

 

Last night was what people mean when they say "teams will figure it out in year two" 

 

The same is not true of Allen (as much).  Allen's runs are on scrambles.  They aren't a scheme trick to be figured out.  On top of that, he is a much better passer.  In five years, Jackson will be a complete after thought (I think, that is as strong a prediction as I've ever made)

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Flacco asks and is traded this off season. 

Cue ‘Chuckie’ Gruden and Mark Davis’ chequebook.  (“If you’re a QB, we’ll Bring You In!”)

[Gugny]

49 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

 

Why not?  He was Peterman-bad.

 

I've never seen a coach try to lose a playoff game like Harbaugh did yesterday.

[hemma]

I didn't watch him during the year, but was surprised at how sloppy he was with the football.

If you can catch him, rake at his arms and there is a good chance he'll fumble.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, hemma said:

I didn't watch him during the year, but was surprised at how sloppy he was with the football.

If you can catch him, rake at his arms and there is a good chance he'll fumble.

 

Teeny-tiny little hands.

 

[GG]

26 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Harbaugh and Baltimore screwed up on this decision. 

 

Could they have won with Flacco? Don't know but Joe has been through and won tough games in the playoffs before. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Flacco asks and is traded this off season. 

 

That leaves Jackson and ??? as QBs next year. Not good going forward IMO. Didn't think Harbaugh would make that poor of a decision, oh well he can lay in that bed now, cause Jackson isn't the answer. 

 

Harbaugh was in a tough spot.  You can argue that there's no way that Baltimore goes on a 6-1 finishing run with Flacco and thus miss the playoffs.  But Flacco does has a flair for turning it on in January.

[BillsFan130]

34 minutes ago, H2o said:

A faster, but lesser of a passer version of Tyrod. Lamar is young and may improve though. He has a lot of work to do. 

I always kind of thought that myself.

 

A lot of people seemed to get defensive with the comparison. Not too say they are exact, but they are both mobile QBs who run too much and have a hard time consistently throwing in the pocket.

[Logic]

Like Romo and Nantz said yesterday: Ground and pound is all good well until you face a team with a good defensive gameplan to stop you. And if you get down on the scoreboard and have to pass to catch up? God help you. Bills fans know because we lived through it for three seasons under Tyrod and Roman/Lynn/Dennison.

Speaking of "good defensive gameplan", the Chargers' played 7 defensive backs on all but one defensive play against the Ravens. This was after they had played 7 defensive backs on the least defensive snaps IN THE LEAGUE in 2018. The Ravens were not prepared, and the speed the Chargers had on the field defensively was the difference. The blueprint to beat Jackson's Ravens offense (assuming you have the defensive backs to make it work, that is) is now out there for all to see. We'll see if he can take his game to the next level.

[BillsFan130]

33 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Well they got by using his legs less for scrambling but for designed runs.  Once that was taken away he struggled.  The nasty pass rush of LA didn't help matters.

Ya I kind of had a feeling LA would shut him down.

 

I see a lot of defences doing that to him in the future unless he improves on his passing. As we know by having Tyrod for 3 years, defences can easily game plan against mobile QBs who struggle to throw in the pocket.

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Why not?  He was Peterman-bad.

 

I've never seen a coach try to lose a playoff game like Harbaugh did yesterday.

Well I'd say Wade vs. Tennessee as Rob Johnson was trotted out over & over, but am convinced Ralph Wilson made that call.

 

Was Lamar Peterman-bad?  That is a leap for me to make.

 

Baltimore's Defense was the only thing saving it from a blowout.  

[Gugny]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Well I'd say Wade vs. Tennessee as Rob Johnson was trotted out over & over, but am convinced Ralph Wilson made that call.

 

Was Lamar Peterman-bad?  That is a leap for me to make.

 

Baltimore's Defense was the only thing saving it from a blowout.  

 

He had -2 passing yards for the game in the 3rd quarter.  He was definitely Peterman-bad.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Well I'd say Wade vs. Tennessee as Rob Johnson was trotted out over & over, but am convinced Ralph Wilson made that call.

 

Was Lamar Peterman-bad?  That is a leap for me to make.

 

Baltimore's Defense was the only thing saving it from a blowout.  

 

Rob Johnson left the field with a lead.

 

Lamar Jackson had NEGATIVE passing yards until the fourth quarter.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya I kind of had a feeling LA would shut him down.

 

I see a lot of defences doing that to him in the future unless he improves on his passing. As we know by having Tyrod for 3 years, defences can easily game plan against mobile QBs who struggle to throw in the pocket.

 

Has to go over the top - has to stand tall in the pocket - has to take what they give him.  

 

In a situation like that if I'm calling the game i know its going to be lots of zone so i probably line up tight and overload on sideline routes.  Timing also has to be precise on the dig and hitch routes.  I'd also use 12 formations and try and run in heavy sets and use PA.  Passing is going to need to come from the pocket.  

 

We tried a lot of these things with Tyrod in these types of games and he always struggled with timing and hitting people as soon as they get open out of breaks.  He always seemed to throw the deep over's out of bounds too... in a quarters level's situation that route will be open a lot but if you're late you end up throwing your guy out of bounds.

[eball]

It was negligent for Harbaugh not to bench Jackson for Flacco after the first series of the 3rd quarter.  I don't care what Jackson did in junk time against the Chargers' prevent D with his lucky throws -- he was garbage and I have no idea why Harbaugh is hitching his wagon to this guy.  Flacco had to be thinking "WTF" on the sideline; he can't wait to get out of there.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya I kind of had a feeling LA would shut him down.

 

I see a lot of defences doing that to him in the future unless he improves on his passing. As we know by having Tyrod for 3 years, defences can easily game plan against mobile QBs who struggle to throw in the pocket.

 

Yep - when we had roman we ran a ton out of shotgun.  When you do that read-option makes it difficult to know what side you're running to, but if you load the box and have speed it doesn't matter as they can beat you to the outside.  If they take away the sidelines like that - you must use the middle of the field, and you must use more timing routes.  Tyrod sucked at both of these.  You also will probably want to run more from under center and use play action to create space.

1 minute ago, eball said:

It was negligent for Harbaugh not to bench Jackson for Flacco after the first series of the 3rd quarter.  I don't care what Jackson did in junk time against the Chargers' prevent D with his lucky throws -- he was garbage and I have no idea why Harbaugh is hitching his wagon to this guy.  Flacco had to be thinking "WTF" on the sideline; he can't wait to get out of there.

 

I thought for sure after the disaster series to start the 4th quarter.  

[BillsFan4]

To me, it seems like maybe it was more than just a football decision to keep Jackson in (which is quite a stupid thing to do in the playoffs IMO). I think they probably didn’t want a QB controversy if Flacco had come in and played well. 

 

But its the playoffs. QB controversy be damned. Just give yourself the best chance to win the game and deal with all the rest when the time comes. 

If Flacco plays well, then great! You now boosted his trade value. 

 

 

The only other thing I can think of is that they wanted to get Jackson the experience for next year and beyond, even at the expense of winning the game... 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

It was negligent for Harbaugh not to bench Jackson for Flacco after the first series of the 3rd quarter.  I don't care what Jackson did in junk time against the Chargers' prevent D with his lucky throws -- he was garbage and I have no idea why Harbaugh is hitching his wagon to this guy.  Flacco had to be thinking "WTF" on the sideline; he can't wait to get out of there.

 

I couldn't even imagine being a Ravens fan watching that shitshow go down.

[hemma]

Puts their GM in a tough position for the off season.

- Trade Flacco or keep him?

- Back to the draft for another QB?

 

We got sucked into that hole a few times.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Last night was what people mean when they say "teams will figure it out in year two" 

 

The same is not true of Allen (as much).  Allen's runs are on scrambles.  They aren't a scheme trick to be figured out.  On top of that, he is a much better passer.  In five years, Jackson will be a complete after thought (I think, that is as strong a prediction as I've ever made)

 

Jackson was one guy I definitely didn't want in the draft. Seemed like Tyrod Taylor 2.0 to me.

 

Of course, I also didn't want Josh Allen, so what do I know?

[eball]

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I couldn't even imagine being a Ravens fan watching that shitshow go down.

 

Seriously.  You've got a guy who won you a Super Bowl -- who lost his job (mostly) because of injury -- sitting on the sideline completely healthy while your gimmicky offense is being pummeled and the game is still within reach.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

 

Just goes to show you, can't hide the QB in the playoffs...

[Nick the Greek]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

It was negligent for Harbaugh not to bench Jackson for Flacco after the first series of the 3rd quarter.  I don't care what Jackson did in junk time against the Chargers' prevent D with his lucky throws -- he was garbage and I have no idea why Harbaugh is hitching his wagon to this guy.  Flacco had to be thinking "WTF" on the sideline; he can't wait to get out of there.

That’s what I was thinking when I was watching yesterday. Your rookie QB Jackson hadn’t done anything and it’s now the 3rd quarter of a playoff game.

 

PUT IN FLACCO. I thought it might happen, but it didn’t. 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Seriously.  You've got a guy who won you a Super Bowl -- who lost his job (mostly) because of injury -- sitting on the sideline completely healthy while your gimmicky offense is being pummeled and the game is still within reach.

 

Flacco should have started the game.  Harbaugh should have realized that Jackson was not his best chance to win the game.  It was terrible.  And now he's stuck with Jackson.  He deserves it and I hope Flacco goes somewhere and kicks ass.

[eball]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

To me, it seems like maybe it was more than just a football decision to keep Jackson in (which is quite a stupid thing to do in the playoffs IMO). I think they probably didn’t want a QB controversy if Flacco had come in and played well. 

 

But its the playoffs. QB controversy be damned. Just give yourself the best chance to win the game and deal with all the rest when the time comes. 

If Flacco plays well, then great! You now boosted his trade value. 

 

 

The only other thing I can think of is that they wanted to get Jackson the experience for next year and beyond, even at the expense of winning the game... 

 

 

 

 

If it was either of the two bolded statements, Harbaugh should be fired today.  And for the record, I don't think it was.  I think Harbaugh is just a stubborn SOB who was bound and determined to be "right" about keeping Jackson as the starter.

[Sherlock Holmes]

54 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Rob Johnson left the field with a lead.

 

Lamar Jackson had NEGATIVE passing yards until the fourth quarter.

 

Rob Johnson ran out of the endzone for a safety in a playoff game...

[Nick the Greek]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Flacco should have started the game.  Harbaugh should have realized that Jackson was not his best chance to win the game.  It was terrible.  And now he's stuck with Jackson.  He deserves it and I hope Flacco goes somewhere and kicks ass.

I don’t know if I totally agree with this. You could make a strong argument that Jackson led the Ravens to the playoffs. The AFC north was a tight division that came down to the last week of the season. You gotta roll with the hot hand, and Jackson was hot. 

 

I do think he should have been benched yesterday though. Jackson didn’t do anything in the first half. The game wasn’t out of reach at that point. That’s when you put in your vet who has a Super Bowl ring. 

[Yav]

Jackson has a lot of problems, not only is he a poor passer but he is a turn over machine. 

Seems like so many people are quick to call Allen trash but give Jackson a pass, sorry but he had more to work with as did Baker. 

 

Right now I don't think it's fair to compare these kids at all. Rosen had the worse OL to work with followed by Allen, where as Baker had the best talent around him and Darnold had a slight more than Rosen and Allen and Jackson was lucky to have that D in Baltimore.

 

If you look at each players first game and compared that to his last, I'd have to say Allen show the most improvement and I honestly think Baker's going to be summed up to his very last attempt vs Baltimore, he's too short and can't see over the line. Jackson is just like Tyrod. Darnold I'm not sure of and Rosen might end up being a healthy version of Bradford and Allen looks like he could be the best of the bunch. For the record I was very skeptical of Allen and was hoping for Darnold or Rosen to be the pick, but am very happy that I'm not the person making that decision.