Philly McButterpants Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 9 hours ago, CSBill said: I just hope he does not end up in Miami Or in New England ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Number 1 ability is availability and Wentz missed the SB run and now this years Post season. Even if healthy, it seems like Foles would start right now. The best the Eagles have ever done is the last two years and important success has been with Foles. I can see why fans are torn.....if Foles plays poorly in a playoff loss it will be easier to move on from him. But if he continues to play well, they have an "issue" to deal with in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 BDN is a real nickname or a TBD thing? Foles is money, they have to find a way to keep him even if that means losing Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Now that we have Josh ... this topic means much less that it did last season. to the OP If the Eagles go far then they will have a dilemma on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Doc said: He will void the deal and pay back the $2M. No reason not to. No reason for him to rush into anything, is there? For team/athlete they actually seem to have a symbiotic relationship. It would not shock me to see Foles stick with the Eagles so that they get some return on their investment. The Eagles, for their part, would be well served to work with Foles' team while they attempt to work out a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Without an oline Foles is average at best. Hes a statue in the pocket for the most part. I like him but there is a reason he was terrible outside philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avisan Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, CommonCents said: BDN is a real nickname or a TBD thing? Foles is money, they have to find a way to keep him even if that means losing Wentz. It's... an internet thing. Started last year afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george c Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Wentz isn’t going anywhere, especially if they have to choose between Wentz and Foles. Rosen isn’t Doug Whaley.. Wentz is a kid with a HUGE upside. The kid had a knee injury late last year. We know that an injury like that seems to stay in the player’s head for another season, then is forgotten about and the player is back to 100% in year two. Wentz will learn that he’s not built to take the punishment and become much more aware of what big hits can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Foles most certainly did not outplay Brady in the Super Bowl. Not even close. Curious that in a thread full of seriously interesting stuff you decided to focus on your BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Remember when so many were saying Nick Foles wasn't as good as Tyrod? Yeah, me too! Where are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, George C said: Wentz isn’t going anywhere, especially if they have to choose between Wentz and Foles. Rosen isn’t Doug Whaley.. Wentz is a kid with a HUGE upside. The kid had a knee injury late last year. We know that an injury like that seems to stay in the player’s head for another season, then is forgotten about and the player is back to 100% in year two. Wentz will learn that he’s not built to take the punishment and become much more aware of what big hits can do. Problem with that theory: He now has a broken back as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Philly McButterpants said: Or in New England ? PLEASE NO!!!!!!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 12 hours ago, LEBills said: Don’t be surprised if Wentz is the one shopped. Living in Philadelphia, the fans and the team are all behind Foles. They like Wentz, they love Foles. And honestly, their offense is on track more with Foles than with Wentz. If they do decide to keep Wentz, I’m with you it’s unlikely they keep Foles...though Foles knows he is best with Pederson. I know it seems crazy but the Foles led Eagles win playoff games. It really looks like he turned a noncontender around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I know it seems crazy but the Foles led Eagles win playoff games. It really looks like he turned a noncontender around Theres the saying that the best ability is availability. Even if you think Wentz may be better at QB long term than Foles he has not shown he can stay on the field for an entire season. his injuries are major and will take their tole. Nick Foles might be favored in Philly because he stays healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He may not have a trade veto per se. But if he has the ability to pay back a bonus and void his contract, they can’t trade a player not under contract, right? I’m sure we’ll be hearing more about this as the playoffs roll on. The timeline of the contract leads to some vagueness. As far as I can tell, he'd be a UFA should he return the 2m making a trade moot. It appears as though there's a time gap between Philly's option decision and Foles 2 m void. I'm sure the Eagles will try to find a way to get a return on Foles and I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't trade him somewhere he didn't want to go. As you said, we'll find out more. Edited January 7, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 13 hours ago, Da webster guy said: Wentz is gonna be a great qb in this league for the next dozen years man. He was the best qb in the NFL last year until his injury. No way he gets dealt. Zero chance. As long as they continue to pair Wentz and Foles, the Eagles will be OK. Foles won them a SB and this year he turned the team around from a losing season to Div playoff game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Now that we have Josh ... this topic means much less that it did last season. to the OP If the Eagles go far then they will have a dilemma on their hands. Means less as far as whether we should care that one of them ends up in the AFCE, too. So what if Wentz became a dolphin? Beat the best to be the best, and I believe, in a few years, Josh will be just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 It looks like they were smart not to trade him away last off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Can they tag him if he pays back the bonus money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Hebert19 said: Without an oline Foles is average at best. Hes a statue in the pocket for the most part. I like him but there is a reason he was terrible outside philly. His name was Jeff Fisher with the Rams. The same coach that had 90% of Fans calling Goff a bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said: It looks like they were smart not to trade him away last off-season. yeah - if he can win them another it's all worth it. Moving forward they have a complete lack of cap space - and the only way to make cap space is to cut valuable contributors. Foles needs to be traded for cap relief (assuming he agrees to the option), and they'd still need to maneuver some pieces (trade agholor for pennies on the dollar, or release peters, or release Kelce, or release Chris long) to be at all flexible in free agency. If they don't trade him, they likely need to do several of those moves just to get under the cap. They also lose Darby, Tate, and Graham for nothing - so they'll probably end up with some comp picks in 2020. I think 2019 will be a rough year for the Eagles - unless they have a 2018 jags year and no one gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: His name was Jeff Fisher with the Rams. The same coach that had 90% of Fans calling Goff a bust. Except that Goff was a rookie... Foles was not. Also, Vince Young who was not a good QB, had his best years under Fisher? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Except that Goff was a rookie... Foles was not. Also, Vince Young who was not a good QB, had his best years under Fisher? Fisher is a D guy though. Frank Cignetti and Rob Boras were the OC's in 2016 which was Foles only year with the rams. Neither of them had ever called plays in the NFL prior to 2016 - and Boras called plays again in 2017 and was just as bad with Goff as anyone else. Foles was pretty good in his first 2 years starting under chip kelly. Even almost won a playoff game against New Orleans in year 1, before breaking his collarbone in year 2. Since that bad year with St. Louis he's actually been really good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Interesting conversation. I wonder if we'd still be having it if Parkey hits that field goal yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, that would appear to be the case. Yet given Foles’ expressed feelings on the topic of where he plays - that he thought about retiring, that he decided to play for Andy Reid, that he was willing to play for a coach from the Reid tree such as Pederson - it seems unlikely that he would renegotiate his contract without putting in some sort of protection for himself. I mean, what would be the point of having a payback/void option, if he could just be tagged? It would be pointless, right? Eagles: “we have exercised our option and we are gonna trade you to the Arizona Cardinals” Foles: “Ok, here’s $2M, I’m a free agent now” Eagles: “We accept your $2M but HAHA! TAG! Now you’re not free once again, and we’re still gonna trade you to the Arizona Cardinals. Or the Broncs.” Foles would be $2M poorer, and still stuck with a situation he may not want. What would be the point? If he voids the contract he is a free agent and no contractual obligation to Philadelphia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artem Lipatov Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Is it similar to dilema of Pats many years ago? Bledsoe or Brady? The star and fan favorite vs the guy who won Super Bowl? I think Patriots don't regret about their choice. Edited January 7, 2019 by Artem Lipatov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, dneveu said: Can they tag him if he pays back the bonus money? That was a topic of discussion up-thread. Some say yes, but others say doesn't make sense that Foles and his agents would write a contract that would allow him to be $2M less wealthy and still allow him to be kept from UFA by a tag. I think the new contract was all about allowing Foles a choice, for a price, so I think no, they can't. Someone (Rapaport?) was writing as though they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, LABillzFan said: Interesting conversation. I wonder if we'd still be having it if Parkey hits that field goal yesterday. "Timing is everything." Joe Flacco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That was a topic of discussion up-thread. Some say yes, but others say doesn't make sense that Foles and his agents would write a contract that would allow him to be $2M less wealthy and still allow him to be kept from UFA by a tag. I think the new contract was all about allowing Foles a choice, for a price, so I think no, they can't. Someone (Rapaport?) was writing as though they could. What I'm unclear about is whether the Eagles can tag Foles after he has opted-out of his contract. Typically you hear about players being tagged after their existing contract is coming to an end, not after they opt-out of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 20 hours ago, LEBills said: Don’t be surprised if Wentz is the one shopped. Living in Philadelphia, the fans and the team are all behind Foles. They like Wentz, they love Foles. And honestly, their offense is on track more with Foles than with Wentz. If they do decide to keep Wentz, I’m with you it’s unlikely they keep Foles...though Foles knows he is best with Pederson. If they beat the Saints they keep Foles and trade Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, LABillzFan said: Interesting conversation. I wonder if we'd still be having it if Parkey hits that field goal yesterday. He led that last TD drive, in the playoffs, on the road, against a top defense. I think we would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, dneveu said: Fisher is a D guy though. Frank Cignetti and Rob Boras were the OC's in 2016 which was Foles only year with the rams. Neither of them had ever called plays in the NFL prior to 2016 - and Boras called plays again in 2017 and was just as bad with Goff as anyone else. Foles was pretty good in his first 2 years starting under chip kelly. Even almost won a playoff game against New Orleans in year 1, before breaking his collarbone in year 2. Since that bad year with St. Louis he's actually been really good. So I just want to emphasize this again. Cignetti and Boras and their offense was a total hot mess in 2015 (not 16) with the Rams. He made not one, but two QB who have had some success elsewhere (Foles, and Keenum) look like garbage. Then Boras was given the chance to do it again and made Goff and Keenum look like garbage. When an OC manages to make 3 QB who have some success elsewhere look like crap, it's not them, Rob, it's you and your offense. Two words for why Foles did very well (not just pretty good his 2nd season, very well) in Philly: Pat Shurmur. It's not a coincidence that Keenum looked good last year under Shurmur in Minn as well and that Minn's O was simply not as good this year under DeFilippo. It remains to be seen if Shurmur can do something as HC, but as a QB mentor and OC, there's no question he knows something. Anyway, having had the epiphany that a QB is pretty well at the mercy of the guy calling plays, I think Nick Foles would retire before playing for about 2/3 of the OCs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: If they beat the Saints they keep Foles and trade Wentz. I'm taking all (theoretical of course) wagers on the Eagles dealing Wentz. I'll give you 3/1 odds. Edited January 7, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: I'm taking all (theoretical of course) wagers on the Eagles dealing Wentz. I'll give you 3/1 odds. You don’t think they would keep Foles under those circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just now, Binghamton Beast said: You don’t think they would keep Foles under those circumstances? Not even if they win the Superbowl. They'll thank Foles for his amazing service and move on with their franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: As long as they continue to pair Wentz and Foles, the Eagles will be OK. Foles won them a SB and this year he turned the team around from a losing season to Div playoff game. Right now, the Eagles are $12M in the red on the cap. They gotta do something Foles $20M would be a lot of something. 12 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: If they beat the Saints they keep Foles and trade Wentz. Wentz is on a rookie contract. His salary is almost all signing bonus and roster bonus next year. The Iggles maybe save $3M and take a $4M cap hit if they trade Wentz. Now that's not to say trading Foles is what the Eagles will do. Howie Roseman has shown himself before to be an "outside the box" thinker on the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 18 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How you figure that? Foles has a SB ring and an NFC Championship. I don’t think Romo ever made it to the Championship game. Also, Wentz is the one with the cracked-up back Damn, I completely mentioned the wrong QB. I meant to say Wentz = Romo. i'll edit my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Right now, the Eagles are $12M in the red on the cap. They gotta do something Foles $20M would be a lot of something. Wentz is on a rookie contract. His salary is almost all signing bonus and roster bonus next year. The Iggles maybe save $3M and take a $4M cap hit if they trade Wentz. Now that's not to say trading Foles is what the Eagles will do. Howie Roseman has shown himself before to be an "outside the box" thinker on the cap. Oh, I get that. But 1 SB and, at the very least, a conference title appearance, should trump a rookie contract. They could make some cuts and some holes they need to fill could be done by the haul of draft picks that would come their way. Edited January 7, 2019 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Oh, I get that. But 1 SB and, at the very least, a conference title appearance, should trump a rookie contract. They could make some cuts and some holes they need to fill could be done by the haul of draft picks that would come their way. It's a valid and interesting point. You have a promising rookie who lit up the league in his 2nd year before becoming injured. He played very well when he returned from that injury - but somehow not quite well enough, leading to a 6-7 team record at the point where he's injured again - a troubling injury, fractured spine. You make the playoffs again with a 9-7 record on the arm of his backup QB - who also won you the Superbowl the previous year - and win your first round. At some point, the guy who is winning the playoff games would seem to become the better bet over the guy who got injured and wasn't available 2 years in a row. When is that point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's a valid and interesting point. You have a promising rookie who lit up the league in his 2nd year before becoming injured. He played very well when he returned from that injury - but somehow not quite well enough, leading to a 6-7 team record at the point where he's injured again - a troubling injury, fractured spine. You make the playoffs again with a 9-7 record on the arm of his backup QB - who also won you the Superbowl the previous year - and win your first round. At some point, the guy who is winning the playoff games would seem to become the better bet over the guy who got injured and wasn't available 2 years in a row. When is that point? I'm on record as stating there's not a snowball's chance in hell they move Wentz, but I found it interesting that Foles is only 3 years older than Wentz. Still....no. The salary cap alone makes it virtually impossible. They would have to move heaven and earth to choose Foles over Wentz and it ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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