Bills fire OL Coach Juan Castillo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Yeah - in the KB case I was mostly thinking of just friendly connections they might still have in the building not necessarily affiliated with the coaching staff or management - equipment guys, secretaries, ball boys etc etc - just people they might have known (friends essentially) who might have been observers on what was going on in the building in an unofficial sense.

 

I think that "friendly connections" always have to be taken with a large shaker of salt when horse-trading or any other form of bargaining commence.

Which is why I wondered if the Bills had actually had a scout, not from CAR to avoid confirmation bias, sit down and watch Benjamin's film from that season before the trade?  Because maybe the sloppy route running and the "phoning in" effort could have been seen?  Or I dunno, maybe Benjamin went into "career decision" mode once it was seen the Bills' QB situation was AFU.

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Bingo.  My hope (and current belief) is that Beane isn't so arrogant as to think he can build this team without some proven subject matter experts on his staff. 

I will say that, since he's been GM, I've never been so excited about the draft/FA period, as well as potential trades.  I think he's very good at his job.

 

The best I can do is a verdict of "not yet proven".  He's made some moves that look excellent.  He's made some head-scratching moves.  He's made some dud moves.  Every GM makes mistakes, it's how frequently and whether they learn from them that matter over the long haul.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that "friendly connections" always have to be taken with a large shaker of salt when horse-trading or any other form of bargaining commence.

Which is why I wondered if the Bills had actually had a scout, not from CAR to avoid confirmation bias, sit down and watch Benjamin's film from that season before the trade?  Because maybe the sloppy route running and the "phoning in" effort could have been seen?  Or I dunno, maybe Benjamin went into "career decision" mode once it was seen the Bills' QB situation was AFU.

 

The best I can do is a verdict of "not yet proven".  He's made some moves that look excellent.  He's made some head-scratching moves.  He's made some dud moves.  Every GM makes mistakes, it's how frequently and whether they learn from them that matter over the long haul.

 

Fair.  Another measure is how long a GM stays "married," to a bad player.  It's what ultimately killed Whaley's career.  I don't know why Benjamin stayed on the team so long, but I think it was a solid 5 weeks too long.  Same with Peterman.  But we're talking weeks; not years, so it's not overly concerning to me.

[GG]

24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Again, highly exaggerated.

 

He had a significant injury in 2017. Prior to that he missed a grand total of 5 games once he became a starter. 

 

Don't know where you're getting your numbers, but he missed 8 games prior to 2017.    Glenn has dressed for 30 of 48 games since 2016, and 24 of 32 if you take out 2017, plus he's also had a series of nagging injuries that have affected his play over the last couple of years.

 

Durability and availability have been clearly important to McBeane in their decisions to shape the roster.  I'm guessing they're not too thrilled with Murphy's playing status this year.  But if you collectively look at Glenn, Dareus and Watkins, the lingering injuries were probably a huge factor why they were sent packing.

[BrooklynBills]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Bills had a decent offensive line in 2015-2016, especially the latter, with Kromer as coach.  You don't have the #2 rushing attack in attempts but #1 in yards without having a good line, especially with McCoy as your feature back - he's a guy that needs an OL and he was ripping off 5.4 ypc, a career high for him.  The OL could have provided better pass protection, but a lot of the time the problem there was Taylor either taking too long, or flushing out of the pocket instead of stepping up into the passing lanes that were there.

 

I spent way too much time watching the Bills run plays on all-22 this year, and a lot of the time the problem was confusion.  And frankly, while it's not definitive, with Castillo as the OL coach, the Ravens OL had the same problem, and appeared better before and after.  If Castillo had lost Glenn all season, Wood, and Cog his first year, I would have been yeah, it's the personnel.

 

I'm personally much more interested in focusing on what the current regime does than in trying to rehash or debate OL for the Bills entire history, but Ballard-Hull-Richter-Wolford was a pretty good OL and mid-70s was pretty good, too.  With due respect, I think you're still salty over the last 20 years, and it's coloring your view.

 

My concerns about the current regime are that I felt more could have been done to improve the line in FA last year.  They knew Wood had to retire about a year ago today.  They knew they were drafting a rookie QB.  The list of guys available had some better guys on it than Bodine, some of whom signed for contracts we could have managed (Pouncey, for example, signed for 2 yr $15M with the Chargers and had a cap hit of $6.2M last year.  He played 16 games for the Chargers.).  Heck, we could have signed him and Bodine also.  Paradis signed with the Broncos for $2.9M.  The point is, folks here (and Beane, for that matter) act as though we couldn't possibly have done more due to salary cap.  No, you didn't do more because for some misbegotten reason you thought with Groy and Bodine you had done enough; it wasn't a priority.

 

That's the point that concerns me, he says it's a priority now, but what's his talent evaluation on OL really like?

 

What offensive lineman contract that was signed last off-season would have liked us to do?

 

Paradis would have required a 2nd round pick going to DEN.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

What offensive lineman contract that was signed last off-season would have liked us to do?

 

Paradis would have required a 2nd round pick going to DEN.

 

Err, I mentioned two in the post to which you are responding?

I don't think a 2nd round pick for a quality center is too much, myself.  You?

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Err, I mentioned two in the post to which you are responding?

I don't think a 2nd round pick for a quality center is too much, myself.  You?

 

In a normal year, it's not too much.  In a year when you're stockpiling picks to try to move up into top 5, it is too expensive.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

In a normal year, it's not too much.  In a year when you're stockpiling picks to try to move up into top 5, it is too expensive.

 

C'mon man.  There is always more than one way to skin a muskrat.

[Kelly the Dog]

The Bills had terrible talent as a whole along the offensive line (at least with Glenn injured), and Kromer got the very best out of what he had to work with. Castillo came in and immediately changed the scheme and it was a total disaster, which lasted two years. He never should have been hired, and if he was, he should not have tried to shove an ill-conceived scheme on inferior players.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Kelly the Dog

[nucci]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And even if you like him (or Boettger for that matter), this team has too long operated under the assumption that unproven guys will be solid starters.  They need to approach things as though they don't know what they have.

 

I'd rather have too many players at guard than too few.

I concur...

[MrEpsYtown]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Err, I mentioned two in the post to which you are responding?

I don't think a 2nd round pick for a quality center is too much, myself.  You?

I guess the way I look at it we wouldn't have Josh Allen becuase we used those two seconds to move up. Or I guess you could argue we wouldn't have Tremaine becuase we would have had to use that other first rounder. I'm not sure I would have given up a second for Paradis in a step back year. I certainly think we should spend the money on him now though. 

 

I agree that that upgrading the offensive line was not a priority last year. I think it is #1 this year. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[folz]

18 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  Look at what Dante Scarnecchia does every year with NE.

 

I had wondered when Daboll was brought in, if he'd agreed to keep everyone for a year.  I thought the writing was on the wall when Ducasse became a healthy scratch.  Castillo brought him in and valued him highly, but he seemed very slow to adjust or react to defensive shifts.  I somewhat suspect that there may have been a bit of head-butting behind the scenes between Daboll and Castillo and finally Daboll said to McDermott, "look, release me if you want, but if you keep me, I need to bring in assistants I'm in sync with"

 

 

 

Exactly, one of my off season wishes was for McDermott to let Dabol change any offensive assistants he wanted to (Castillo being the major one of course), since Dabol inherited most of the staff. I was a little unsure of Dabol himself early in the year when the offense was so bad. But he won me over down the stretch, by adapting to Josh's skill set, being more creative,  and obviously doing a good job developing players (Zay, Foster, Allen). So, McD needs to let him bring in any of his "own guys" that he wants to teach his offense exactly as he wants it to be done.

 

Player development is an often overlooked aspect of coaching...but McD and his staff seem to be doing a really good job at it. Look at all of the young players that have come along this year. Guys actually moving up off the practice squad and making significant contributions, etc. Yes, you have to pick the right guys first and foremost, but if you don't teach and develop them, some or most of those guys will never live up to their potential. Culture (the expectation to work hard) and teaching are as important as Xs and Os at making players be the best they can be. 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Had to happen .... though he was forced to frame a house with balsa wood this season, but still

[Thriftygamer83]

Running game was dominant last season even with the infamous Rick Dennison calling the plays.  Which means Castillo dealing with injured running backs and offensive linemen retiring became a fan service fire.  Completely out of sync given how much Allen suffered from receivers and tight-ends dropping balls.  McDermott does feel pressured by fans (benching Tyrod for Peterman) this was unexpected as Juan Castillo deserves more credit; for what unit cohesion he got out of his rag tag line.  As for the running game he didn’t really have much to work with.  My question is this; what happens for the future if McDermott has to change his staff completely from fan or ownership engaging into heated pressuring?  Will the teams dynamic fizzle out as a result; in a completed collapse of the process?  

[Thriftygamer83]

So when do they fire the receivers and tight-ends Coaches for players dropping balls along with Zay Jones failing to live up to expectations?  Players did not even have full concentration on making catches.  It feels like to me someday it might be Sean McDermott running out of scapegoats and firing Castillo is that point for me which has me more then a little worried; who will come here knowing that they can be fired for being out of sync with rubbish offensive linemen?  

[KennyDavisEyes]

10 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Running game was dominant last season even with the infamous Rick Dennison calling the plays.   

 

Run game wasn’t even close to dominant in 2017.

Edited January 2, 2019 by KennyDavisEyes

[JESSEFEFFER]

22 hours ago, Meazy26 said:

Sean Kugler, OL coach from Denver is a guy I got my eye on for a replacement. Coached our OL for a few years back in the day. Maybe he could bring Matt Paradise with him. 

Lockport native and former HC at UTEP.  Denver had a great running game with rookie Lindsay this year.  I like your idea.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

Don't know where you're getting your numbers, but he missed 8 games prior to 2017.    Glenn has dressed for 30 of 48 games since 2016, and 24 of 32 if you take out 2017, plus he's also had a series of nagging injuries that have affected his play over the last couple of years.

 

Durability and availability have been clearly important to McBeane in their decisions to shape the roster.  I'm guessing they're not too thrilled with Murphy's playing status this year.  But if you collectively look at Glenn, Dareus and Watkins, the lingering injuries were probably a huge factor why they were sent packing.

He also missed 3 games this season with back injury as well as the start of the third quarter this past week against Pittsburg with an ankle.

[Fixxxer]

I hate people losing their jobs, but this had to be done. Players rarely developed in his tenure as OL coach.

 

I hope we bring someone that can adapt to what Daboll's vision on offense is. Maybe he has a someone in mind for the job.

[papazoid]

TRADE  slightly overpaid TOP  15  LT  - Cordy Glenn

 

LOW  BALL $$ TOP 5 RG - Richie Incognito

 

UNEXPECTED RETIREMENT  TOP 10 C - Eric Wood

 

INJURED  RESERVE STARTING RT - Seantrel Henderson

 

GM replaces them all with crumbs

 

BLAME  COACH.....priceless

[Ittakestime]

6 minutes ago, papazoid said:

TRADE  slightly overpaid TOP  15  LT  - Cordy Glenn

 

LOW  BALL $$ TOP 5 RG - Richie Incognito

 

UNEXPECTED RETIREMENT  TOP 10 C - Eric Wood

 

INJURED  RESERVE STARTING RT - Seantrel Henderson

 

GM replaces them all with crumbs

 

BLAME  COACH.....priceless

 

So what was the excuse last year for the decline from 2016?

[Reader]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Bills had terrible talent as a whole along the offensive line (at least with Glenn injured), and Kromer got the very best out of what he had to work with. Castillo came in and immediately changed the scheme and it was a total disaster, which lasted two years. He never should have been hired, and if he was, he should not have tried to shove an ill-conceived scheme on inferior players.

 

It seems amazing how the "build around your players" strategy seems incredibly obvious in hindsight and yet so many of the Bills coaches seem to struggle with that. I think this is a reason why people speak highly of coaches like Schwartz, Lynn and Gailey. Who all seemed able to effectively scheme for either the offense or defense.

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe that's one reason Castillo is gone.  Maybe he had a larger voice than we know in picking the FA acquisitions (as I think he had with Ducasse) and when it wasn't good, they were kind of like "we gave you the rope, you hung, you're gone".  I don't know.  Castillo is said to be very particular about technique and perhaps he grades guys on how well they fit his notion of good technique, vs how effective they are at actually road-grading the opposition.

 

I totally believe that Castillo was in complete control of the OL and run game.

He was first hired.  He survived the Dennison regime.

Juan had to be the go to guy for the OL and run game going into FA and draft last year.

Daboll was too new to know anything about the players other than some tape.  Heck, Daboll hadn't even met any players.

 

That being said it became quite obvious that the offense wasn't going to get a lot of help in the off season.

It was all D and getting Josh Allen.................but Castillo had to have a lot of input concerning Bodine and Newhouse.

Remember the big love fest about both of them being impressed with Castillo and wanting to come here because of him?

No one can deny Castillo's pig headed backing of Ducasse too.

They (Beane and McDermott) counted on Castillo to put together a serviceable OL/Run Game together with what he had and he failed.

 

Something more than lack of talent had to have happened for McDermott to let Juan go and it's performance based IMO.

Daboll is the "he bull" on offense now and I bet McDermott and Beane will be getting a lot of input from him as how to proceed this year.

 

 

[Billzgobowlin]

21 minutes ago, papazoid said:

TRADE  slightly overpaid TOP  15  LT  - Cordy Glenn

 

LOW  BALL $$ TOP 5 RG - Richie Incognito

 

UNEXPECTED RETIREMENT  TOP 10 C - Eric Wood

 

INJURED  RESERVE STARTING RT - Seantrel Henderson

 

GM replaces them all with crumbs

 

BLAME  COACH.....priceless

Glenn was already replaced last year, Incognito has become unglued so I don't think he would have helped this year.  Wood was a huge loss.  The fact of the matter is Kromer developed the line and Castillo allowed it to degrade.  There is turnover every year and Castillo was allowed to bring his own guys in like Ducasse.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

I concur...

as do I.

 

be smarter about contracts on fringe veterans like Ducasse and Mills.

 

 and at some point Bills need to trust the OC to build the Offense. McD and Frazier have made their statement on defense.
Hope Brian D has some prospects in mind from his recent stint with Alabama and it's competition : )

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I guess the way I look at it we wouldn't have Josh Allen becuase we used those two seconds to move up. Or I guess you could argue we wouldn't have Tremaine becuase we would have had to use that other first rounder. I'm not sure I would have given up a second for Paradis in a step back year. I certainly think we should spend the money on him now though. 

 

I agree that that upgrading the offensive line was not a priority last year. I think it is #1 this year. 

seems blatantly obvious. doesn't it ??

for me ?
they waited to get a QB to let Beane get in the building. even though they missed on some opportunity some will still harp upon : )

I think they brought in Brian Daboll with the same thinking. come in, see the lay of the land.that was last year.
present his vision and how to get there. That is this year.
give him the players and start with O line

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And even if you like him (or Boettger for that matter), this team has too long operated under the assumption that unproven guys will be solid starters.  They need to approach things as though they don't know what they have.

 

I'd rather have too many players at guard than too few.

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately for the play actually being run, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady shift L. 

If the play were actually going to the L, no one blocking Joseph and now Harris might be NBD.  (but it's not)

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.  And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East, so to speak.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap and the play actually being run?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only the Dolphins didn't bite? <=bandit's vote

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hapless Bills Fan
update for good answer

[Thriftygamer83]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

We didn’t have a center who could call the blocking assignments.  Juan knew it and he worked with what he was given.  All we could hope for is that someone would come through or maybe they would make a splash with limited cap resources on the offensive line.  They didn’t make much of a splash and went for Star and Murphy who are rotational at best and Murphy is still unproven without performance enhancing drugs.  Even with injury Trent Murphy performed so far below expectations it was evident he was in McDermott’s dog house.  Star is a marginally adequate rotational tackle; who at times is prone to miscommunication and missing his gap and shade assignments. 

[thebandit27]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

[3rdand12]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

I watched the  same play from O side of the line during the game.
could not figure out if Allen was confused about protection. He sure looked surprised when he turn to face the field>
i have to admit i do like to beat that Dog Jordan Mills.
but that gotta be a wrong call. and perhaps Josh made it

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

We didn’t have a center who could call the blocking assignments.  Juan knew it and he worked with what he was given.  All we could hope for is that someone would come through or maybe they would make a splash with limited cap resources on the offensive line.  They didn’t make much of a splash and went for Star and Murphy who are rotational at best and Murphy is still unproven without performance enhancing drugs.  Even with injury Trent Murphy performed so far below expectations it was evident he was in McDermott’s dog house.  Star is a marginally adequate rotational tackle; who at times is prone to miscommunication and missing his gap and shade assignments. 

 

I think this is Hossenpfeffer.   Where did you get this notion?  Bodine was a 5th year vet at center.  He should absolutely be able to call protections. 

Groy is a 5th year vet with a previous half-season at C.

 

Politely put, if two different 5th year vets can't call blocking assignments, there's something wrong with the blocking assignments.

 

What the defensive personnel have to do with the topic of conversation is completely obscure to me. 

You may want a different thread.  Down the hall, 3rd door on the R.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I watched the  same play from O side of the line during the game.
could not figure out if Allen was confused about protection. He sure looked surprised when he turn to face the field>
i have to admit i do like to beat that Dog Jordan Mills.
but that gotta be a wrong call. and perhaps Josh made it

 

The problem clearly goes beyond Jordan Mills.  If DiMarco was supposed to pick up the LB, he's on the wrong side of the formation for that. 

No way can he wait for Josh to drop back, run across the line, and get a position of leverage.

 

Something is wrong, either with what Allen called after the pre-snap motion, or with how the OL responded to it, or with the design of the play in coping with what the D showed.

 

Now on the very next play, you can see Mills get beaten like a drum, turning what looks like a fine big hole for McCoy into a possible tackle-for-loss McCoy has to spin away from.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

 

That's a PA designed to get the QB sacked then, especially if there's film on that there play.  Baker ain't pursuing no fake no how.  Bad scheme.

 

Not sure I understand correctly how this applies to Mills:  "If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap"

Does that mean Mills assignment is actual Harris (90)?

[thebandit27]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's a PA designed to get the QB sacked then, especially if there's film on that there play.  Baker ain't pursuing no fake no how.  Bad scheme.

 

Not sure I understand correctly how this applies to Mills:  "If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap"

Does that mean Mills assignment is actual Harris (90)?

 

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options. In the very least he should've gotten DiMarco to the other side of the backfield pre-snap.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

Edited January 3, 2019 by thebandit27

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

 

 

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

It's something of a credit to Daboll that there wasn't more in-season talk about whether Allen was allowed to or should have been audibling more.

[PIZ]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

 

I don't know your background, but you are obviously a very knowledgeable fan.  Thanks for the explanation.  I love this stuff.

 

 

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

It's something of a credit to Daboll that there wasn't more in-season talk about whether Allen was allowed to or should have been audibling more.

 

Oh I'm sure...just part of the equation with a rookie as green as Allen. Shoot, there are vet QBs who I'm 100% certain wouldn't make that check.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

One of my beefs with the OL has been continuing with schemes they simply can not execute.  I don't think Mills has the agility to sell like he's blocking L then kickslide back to the R.  Not meaning to dump on Mills, who does some things well actually, but he just can't do that.

 

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options. In the very least he should've gotten DiMarco to the other side of the backfield pre-snap.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

 

1st and 10.  21 set, heavy L.  Agree on DiMarco.

[thebandit27]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

One of my beefs with the OL has been continuing with schemes they simply can not execute.  I don't think Mills has the agility to sell like he's blocking L then kickslide back to the R.  Not meaning to dump on Mills, who does some things well actually, but he just can't do that.

 

 

1st and 10.  21 set, heavy L.  Agree on DiMarco.

 

That's a no-brainer kill call for me then (with the benefit of hindsight I mean). That's got to be part of their game plan too--I would bet a hefty sum that Daboll got in Josh's ear about that one.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

Fair.

 

OK so while I got your and Bandit's attention.  At the beginning of that play, there's obviously some kind of signal just before the snap.

Zay goes in motion crossing L to R, taking his man with him.  Allen raises both hands to his helmet. elbows sticking out, and looks at DiMarco.  DiMarco turns to look at Shady and makes the same gesture.  Best guess what that is signal for?

 

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That's a no-brainer kill call for me then (with the benefit of hindsight I mean). That's got to be part of their game plan too--I would bet a hefty sum that Daboll got in Josh's ear about that one.

 

Well, Josh got some "immediate feedback" from the Phins for his decision

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair.

 

OK so while I got your and Bandit's attention.  At the beginning of that play, there's obviously some kind of signal just before the snap.

Zay goes in motion crossing L to R, taking his man with him.  Allen raises both hands to his helmet. elbows sticking out, and looks at DiMarco.  DiMarco turns to look at Shady and makes the same gesture.  Best guess what that is signal for?

 

 

Well, Josh got some "immediate feedback" from the Phins for his decision

 

Best guess without seeing: it's an adjustment by the backs based on man vs zone coverage