Tremaine Edmunds: He was the worst player on the field Dec 23 (vs NE)

[vincec]

46 minutes ago, wppete said:

It seems like he doesn’t like contact and is not a very physical guy despite his size. I feel your MLB should be the most physical guy out there. I wonder if a move to WLB or even DE on passing downs is a better position for him. 

In place of whom? WLB is Milano and he’s not coming out.

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

On the defensive side he was brutal and here is why

- Consistently out of position

- Over pursues

- Plays too tall

- Never lowers his shoulder pads

- Weak tackler- everytimehe tackles the player goes forward a few more yards

- Takes horrible angles- misses way to many tackles.

this one is on the regime.

He should be playing OLB

That's how he played in college. I really like him, but I was  hoping for a Spikes type thumper in the middle. He's always performed better on the outside. 

[Lurker]

Just now, vincec said:

In place of whom? WLB is Milano and he’s not coming out.

 

Lorax...

[vincec]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

Lorax...

Lorax only plays LB when they go 4-3 and he plays the run stopping SLB position. Doesn’t seem like a good fix if his problem is physical play. The only reason he’s getting more snaps the last two weeks is because Milano is hurt. And I haven’t seen any reason to think that Edmunds could be a better pass rusher than Lorax.

Edited December 24, 2018 by vincec

[Socal-805]

10 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

All.

 

On.

 

Edmunds.

 

 

Should have used those picks elsewhere...

 

Like O line.

[JerseyBills]

Yeah he was awful versus the run , he deserves credit for his coverage ability though and would love to see him blitz more , when he does , he gets to the QB super quick.

This wasn't the first game he was awful either, he was getting picked on alot earlier on in the season too. I'm sure not having Milano hurt his game but I can't quite put my finger on the reasons behind his poor play. 

I'd like to see a move to olb and even DE on occasion , either way I believe he has ridiculous physical ability , just gotta figure out how to get the most out of him and I trust our coaching staff will accomplish that

[Boca BIlls]

I think he hit that rookie wall... he was asked to do a lot as a young kid.

[KDIGGZ]

Edmunds is not a MLB. But even so he shouldn't be such a wimp when he's twice as big as these RBs. Step up and meet them in the hole and drive them back. What is he so scared of? If I was that big I would wreck people just because I could

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

What does this mean?  What accountability would you like to see?

 

We had a GM who was afraid to make mistakes.  He drafted EJ and was afraid to draft a QB for the 4 years after that.

 

But he traded up for Sammy. He traded for McCoy. He signed or drafted guys like Harvin, Karlos William's, and Darby...

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[JerseyBills]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Preston Brown is a good example of the opposite of Edmunds......a LB who was playing efficiently and near his ceiling as a rookie.

 

That's the norm really.

Brown was brutal in coverage though.. Edmunds has been very good in coverage the last 8-9 weeks. He can be coached up on taking better angles, maintaining gap integrity , getting lower while tackling, etc

Brown is always going to be a liability in coverage, in a passing league

[Cripple Creek]

Takes good angles? No.

Has good instincts? No.

Makes strong contact with ball carriers? No.

 

Tries to run around blocks? Yes.

Tries to circle in to make tackles? Yes. 

Often hits the wrong hole? Yes.

 

Kid has a ton of growing up to do before he becomes effective. Of all my concerns the biggest is his apparent lack of instinctual play.  Can't teach instincts no matter how big, strong and fast he may be.

[CaptnCoke11]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

He should play Wlb. He’s not physical enough or good enough against the run to play MLB. 

This i agree with.  

[Ol Dirty B]

16 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That's how he played in college. I really like him, but I was  hoping for a Spikes type thumper in the middle. He's always performed better on the outside. 

 And that's why the guy essentially was forced to retire in his late 20s. Teams don't employ that style of LB really anymore. Not as a starter or a large investment of draft capital or salary.

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

But he traded up for Sammy. He traded for McCoy. He signed or drafted guys like Harvin, Karlos William's, and Darby...

 

What the hell are you talking about?

Read what you quote.

[Misterbluesky]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

It's simple simon..he should replace Alexander next year and the Beane counter should draft a true inside LB.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Misterbluesky

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Brown was brutal in coverage though.. Edmunds has been very good in coverage the last 8-9 weeks. He can be coached up on taking better angles, maintaining gap integrity , getting lower while tackling, etc

Brown is always going to be a liability in coverage, in a passing league

 

 

Edmunds hasn't been very good at anything.

 

Preston Brown is a run of the mill MLB but like most MLB's he was about as good as he was going to get as a rookie.

Just now, Misterbluesky said:

It's simple simon..he should replace Alexander next year and draft a true inside LB.

 

 

The NFL is obviously more of a 2 LB league now with extra DB's replacing the 3rd LB on about 2/3 of the snaps.

 

But yeah I am thinking more of Edmunds as a pass rusher who can flex out and cover TE's or drop in coverage some.

 

It's another projection but it's closer to what he was at VA Tech.

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

 

You sure about that? I might say Tom Brady was the worst player on the field today. If he would have thrown the ball more he would have cost them the game.

[Ol Dirty B]

11 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Read what you quote.

 

I did. It was flat out wrong.

[Lurker]

37 minutes ago, vincec said:

Lorax only plays LB when they go 4-3 and he plays the run stopping SLB position. Doesn’t seem like a good fix if his problem is physical play. The only reason he’s getting more snaps the last two weeks is because Milano is hurt. And I haven’t seen any reason to think that Edmunds could be a better pass rusher than Lorax.

 

SLB has less responsibility and fewer reads.   Reading and reacting are Edmonds' biggest weakness.    Seems like a better development plan would have been not to throw so much at a 20-year old playing a new position at the NFL level.   That they did is just another example of this HCs hubris...

[dabills21]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He got a pretty bad concussion trying to tackle a fullback head up and missed a game and since then he's appeared to be much more contact shy.

 

Julian Stanford outplayed him in his absence.

 

Julian Stanford didn't outlay him...if he did, then Stanford would be the starter.  Not that it matters anyhow...

 

Regarding Edmunds this season, he reminds me alot of Ryan Shaziers rookie season.  Ryan was not physical and always seemed 1 steo behind....fast forward a couple years and he was one of the best in the league.

 

Give the guy some time to develop with another NFL offseason

[Big Turk]

I thought Edmunds has played well at time especially after the first few weeks and up to maybe week 11 or 12.

 

I would say the last few weeks might be the rookie wall creeping up. Dude has been on the field almost every defensive snap all year long and rookies dont really have an off-season with all the pre draft workouts they do for teams...the body just gets worn down after a while and needs some time off.

Edited December 24, 2018 by matter2003

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I said it all last year, I said it after the first few weeks of this season. Move Milano to MLB. I don’t care if he’s “small” He is smart, he is fast and he is instinctive. He is very aggressive and has a nose for the ball. He can put on 10-15lbs and play MLB. Let him be the QB of the Defense. Move Edmunds to WLB. Let him run and cover and read and react. They put way to much on his plate with calling the defense. The kid is only 20. He was thinking to much and not just playing. Switch them next year and see where we are at.

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I did. It was flat out wrong.

 

3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

What does this mean?  What accountability would you like to see?

 

We had a GM who was afraid to make mistakes.  He drafted EJ and was afraid to draft a QB for the 4 years after that.

 

[Big Blitz]

Maybe just maybe we're badly missing Milano. 

 

Get me to the off season already 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Big Blitz

[34-78-83]

Edmunds has developed in coverage and on passing plays through the year. I like him most on 3rd down as the year has gone on.

Hasn't shown much consistency or improvement at all vs. the run, however.

Adding bulk and experience will give him a chance in that area. It needs to improve for sure...

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

Julian Stanford didn't outlay him...if he did, then Stanford would be the starter.  Not that it matters anyhow...

 

Regarding Edmunds this season, he reminds me alot of Ryan Shaziers rookie season.  Ryan was not physical and always seemed 1 steo behind....fast forward a couple years and he was one of the best in the league.

 

Give the guy some time to develop with another NFL offseason

 

 

Shazier is an interesting comparison but you ruined your take with the "...if he did(outplay Edmunds) then Stanford would be the starter" nonsense.

 

Matt Barkley outplayed Josh Allen........that Jets game was the best QB'd and best game for the Bills this season..........but he didn't remain the starter when Allen was healthy because the team was developing their first round pick.      Same with Edmunds.

[JerseyBills]

10 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

Julian Stanford didn't outlay him...if he did, then Stanford would be the starter.  Not that it matters anyhow...

 

Regarding Edmunds this season, he reminds me alot of Ryan Shaziers rookie season.  Ryan was not physical and always seemed 1 steo behind....fast forward a couple years and he was one of the best in the league.

 

Give the guy some time to develop with another NFL offseason

You could actually see a clear drop-off from Edmunds when Stanford started, 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I said it all last year, I said it after the first few weeks of this season. Move Milano to MLB. I don’t care if he’s “small” He is smart, he is fast and he is instinctive. He is very aggressive and has a nose for the ball. He can put on 10-15lbs and play MLB. Let him be the QB of the Defense. Move Edmunds to WLB. Let him run and cover and read and react. They put way to much on his plate with calling the defense. The kid is only 20. He was thinking to much and not just playing. Switch them next year and see where we are at.

 

 

I think at first glance that looks like a fairly obvious solution but the problem with putting Milano in the middle of the fight is that he's already two-for-two ending seasons on IR.

 

I know it's a passing league but you still really need a durable guy in the middle and you may end up ruining him and making yourself worse at two positions.

 

 

[BillsVet]

Not a good sign for Edmunds when fans are already citing the players around him as a partial reason why his play is not good. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I think the "move Edmunds to OLB" idea is kind of tired. We spend the majority of the game in a nickel defense, which would be he and Milano anyway. 90% of the fits and things would be the same as they are now regardless of calling him a SAM in base. Also your SAM backer in base defenses has to often jam tight ends and have a really strong punch, which is not something's Edmunds seems to do well. Draft Josh Allen and stick him there and get some functional depth. Edmunds played terrible, but he will be better. During draft time everyone talked about how great his instincts were. He's playing soft and needs some strength. 

 

We wound up in base a lot because the Pats forced us into it. They came out with a tight end and a fullback a ton which is why we saw so much Corey Thompson. The Lions playing 3 wide looks played into our hands last week. It was smart of the Pats to force us into base, forcing us to play Thompson and taking advantage of him, as Raphael Bush is a much better player. 

 

We should have signed Marquis Flowers a couple of weeks ago instead of assuming Corey Thompson was going to be okay. The Pats took advantage of this. 

[Trogdor]

51 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 And that's why the guy essentially was forced to retire in his late 20s. Teams don't employ that style of LB really anymore. Not as a starter or a large investment of draft capital or salary.

I wasn't actually expecting a MLB in the first. He was very tentative to hit in college and we were/are so weak on the run between the tackles. Didn't seem like an optimal fit.

[BillyWhiteShows]

9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think the "move Edmunds to OLB" idea is kind of tired. We spend the majority of the game in a nickel defense, which would be he and Milano anyway. 90% of the fits and things would be the same as they are now regardless of calling him a SAM in base. Also your SAM backer in base defenses has to often jam tight ends and have a really strong punch, which is not something's Edmunds seems to do well. Draft Josh Allen and stick him there and get some functional depth. Edmunds played terrible, but he will be better. During draft time everyone talked about how great his instincts were. He's playing soft and needs some strength. 

 

We wound up in base a lot because the Pats forced us into it. They came out with a tight end and a fullback a ton which is why we saw so much Corey Thompson. The Lions playing 3 wide looks played into our hands last week. It was smart of the Pats to force us into base, forcing us to play Thompson and taking advantage of him, as Raphael Bush is a much better player. 

 

We should have signed Marquis Flowers a couple of weeks ago instead of assuming Corey Thompson was going to be okay. The Pats took advantage of this. 

 

I did see Thompson struggled badly especially on those jet sweeps.  But I also felt that Edmunds was just as bad of a liability against the run.  Thompson has an excuse....Edmunds does not.  

[JerseyBills]

35 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

Julian Stanford didn't outlay him...if he did, then Stanford would be the starter.  Not that it matters anyhow...

 

Regarding Edmunds this season, he reminds me alot of Ryan Shaziers rookie season.  Ryan was not physical and always seemed 1 steo behind....fast forward a couple years and he was one of the best in the league.

 

Give the guy some time to develop with another NFL offseason

Great comparison and I fully expect him to make a significant jump in year 2 . His physical talent is just off the charts , once the game slows down , he'll be a monster

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 During draft time everyone talked about how great his instincts were.

 

 

Huh?   The draft profiles I saw said instincts were his biggest weakness:

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tremaine-edmunds?id=32462018-0002-5600-62d0-412c60099aca

 

https://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/04/17/nfl-draft-profile-no-11-virginia-tech-lb-tremaine-edmunds/a42uauc/

 

 

[DJB]

He reminds me of a soft Poz.  Always tackling down the field.  

 

Dude plays so soft, no anger

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think Milano helped hide some of his short comings. Now that Edmunds is the man he is not rising to the occasion.

[RocCityRoller]

41 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I said it all last year, I said it after the first few weeks of this season. Move Milano to MLB. I don’t care if he’s “small” He is smart, he is fast and he is instinctive. He is very aggressive and has a nose for the ball. He can put on 10-15lbs and play MLB. Let him be the QB of the Defense. Move Edmunds to WLB. Let him run and cover and read and react. They put way to much on his plate with calling the defense. The kid is only 20. He was thinking to much and not just playing. Switch them next year and see where we are at.

 

no, Milano is a converted Safety. He and Edmunds outside with a Slobber Knocker at MLB is a possibility. That would allow Lorax to be used situationally.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, RocCityRoller said:

 

no, Milano is a converted Safety. He and Edmunds outside with a Slobber Knocker at MLB is a possibility. That would allow Lorax to be used situationally.

That’s not going to work. You aren’t taking one of these 2 guys off the field 75% of the time. If you move both to the outside, you are losing 1 of them constantly. It’s not the 70s. You don’t need a run stuffing guy at MLB. Your Dlimeman need to be moving forward not back. Milano can and should play MLB. 

[RocCityRoller]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

That’s not going to work. You aren’t taking one of these 2 guys off the field 75% of the time. If you move both to the outside, you are losing 1 of them constantly. It’s not the 70s. You don’t need a run stuffing guy at MLB. Your Dlimeman need to be moving forward not back. Milano can and should play MLB. 

 

????

 

Milano at SAM, Edmunds at WILL, new guy at MLB.

Lorax rotates in when pass rush is needed.

 

Lorax only has a year or two left. He should not be an every down LB at this point of his career.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

????

 

Milano at SAM, Edmunds at WILL, new guy at MLB.

Lorax rotates in when pass rush is needed.

 

Lorax only has a year or two left. He should not be an every down LB at this point of his career.

The Slb is off the field when the ncb is on which is probably 75% of the time 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Brianmoorman4jesus