Brandon Beane deserves to be fired tomorrow

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

The roster was among the better rosters in the league in 2015. 

 

It was still solid in 2016. The coaching was atrocious. McDermott is a good defensive coach. As a guy running the entire organization, he is in over his head and the head scratching decisions he made on the offensive side of the football since he got here and results that have followed is evidence of that. 

 

It was pretty good, but it was also aging.  

 

His decisions weren't that tough.  He knew that you cannot build an offense without a QB.  He did what he had to get the QB, planned to sit him this year (sacrificing this year) and then build around him.  Not only is that not difficult to comprehend, it reflects a long term, sensible strategy.  

[Wayne Arnold]

Good luck hiring a decent GM after you fire the last one after 1.5 years.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

You are being super dramatic. 

 

Coach Tuesday:

 

[dpberr]

Remember how the defense looked terrible against the Ravens and for about a half against the Chargers and then "something" happened?

 

It was a change in coaching and strategy.  Same players that are a lights out squad now.  

 

 

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

It was aging..... so his logic is make it even older by trading and letting walk the young, GOOD players they actually had here.

 

The decisions to completely overhaul the roster were ego driven. That is all.

 

Lol. People throw around this term "ego" like they have any idea what it means.  Every decision is "ego" driven.  You make a move because YOU think it is the right move to make.  

It was the right move to make.  He did what he had to do to get his QB.  That is how you build an NFL offense.  He made the right move.  Its not about immediate gratification.  It is about long term goal.  

 

This is nothing more than the rumblings of petulant children. 

[machine gun kelly]

I understand people’s frustrations and in hindsight probably should have kept TT, fire Peterman, and make a run for Bridgewater before NO scooped him up.  With that said, we are playing with a lights out defense, and yes this is the worst Offense in NFL HISTORY in the SB ERA.

 

Next year we have 10 picks, and almost $100 mil to spend.  They just signed Pryor, and should trade Shady to Philly.  I can’t believe we don’t spend 85% of our money and picks on offense.  Having the players in only their first or second year, we don’t have that many people to resign.

 

im done with the Bills for this year as I can’t watch that offense.  I cancelled my ticket for the first time in 20 years.  Thankfully I live in Tampa and is a huge mistake to not try and trade Winston today and live Fitz for the year.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Coach Tuesday:

 

 

Literally what I think when I read threads like these!

[GunnerBill]

I agree with much of Coach Tuesday's reasoning but not his conclusion. I don't think the conclusion is wrong so much as it is premature. 

 

I am giving the pair of them this offseason to turn it around. But this team better look a lot better in 2019. Not just going from a likely 3-13ish season to a 6-10. Like this team needs to be .500 or better and look like a team on the verge of really competing next season or else I am firing them both after 2019.

[Roundybout]

36 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Finally people are realizing what a cluster Beane is.

 

He will end up going down as the worst GM this team has ever seen, and that is saying a lot.

 

The guy is clueless, yet has one of the biggest egos I have ever seen.

 

McDermott and Whaley were great together.  Provided a nice check and balance.  Whaley was able to scout, and McDermott was allowed to make the decisions based on Whaley's scouting.

 

Beane now runs everything player wise and it is a stark contrast to the talent that was brought in before he got here.

 

***** what?! When did they work together? Whaaa?

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

The roster was among the better rosters in the league in 2015. 

 

It was still solid in 2016. The coaching was atrocious. McDermott is a good defensive coach. As a guy running the entire organization, he is in over his head and the head scratching decisions he made on the offensive side of the football since he got here and results that have followed is evidence of that. 

The roster was certainly better a few years ago, I don’t think anyone is going to dispute that. Look at the dead cap money, the QB situation, the Woods/Incog situations. When you do a hard reset of the roster the immediate impact is going to be a less talented team. Would a Taylor lead team with lazy Marcell and once a month Watkins win more than this team? Of course. 

 

McBeane didn’t think they could get to the top with that group of players. Some fans such as myself as believe that. You clearly think they could have. I’d rather suffer through a bad season in hopes of something better but as I said above these guys are making some simple mistakes. Mistakes that will cost them their jobs. How many new coaches get a chance at hiring three OC’s? I can’t imagine it’s many.

 

Captain Peterman and his sidekick Anderson are going to drive what’s left of this ship straight into a rock wall. McD will be amongst the most likely to get fired in 19’ and for good reason. 

[jahnyc]

The Bills shed a lot of relatively young players (Darby, Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Gilmore, Ragland, Darreus and even Glenn).  I understand that many of these players left by choice via free agency, but this is not a group of golden oldies.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Lmao. 

 

Right. Because they couldn't have drafted a QB without trading Watkins and letting Woods and Goodwin walk, and trading Glenn.

 

Where the ***** do people come up with this stuff? 

 

Sure, you can always draft a QB in the 2nd, 3rd round, etc.  

 

But to get a good QB, you have to draft high.  To make the playoffs and then draft high you have to trade up.  Do you know what you trade up with?  Draft picks! Draft picks you acquire from trading guys like Watkins and Glenn! 

[Rob's House]

I think we need a poll to determine whether Beane is responsible for drafting Zay Jones.

[NoSaint]

54 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

back up from the edge.... this is part of the rebuild process. We ALL knew this coming in to this year.

 

Not a single person on this board would’ve been ok with the hire if they were told THIS was the plan two years ago 

[5 Wide]

53 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

McDermott and Beane are joined at the hip.  They deserve a chance to fix the offense by adding talent to support Allen with the hope that he's the franchise QB. They have through 2019 at a minimum. 

 

I'm really questioning their grasp on the offensive side:

 

Draft Rookie QB 

- Give said Rookie QB a QB coach who had neither played QB nor has ever been a QB coach in the NFL

- Give Rookie QB no veteran voice in the room as a mentor nor have a player on the roster to truly play the caretaker role for a year

   - by his 3rd start, Allen had accumulated the most NFL QB playing experience on the Roster

Identify Kelvin Benjamin as someone to build around by giving up a 3rd round pick to acquire him

Watch Benjamin struggle with drops, lack of intensity and mental lapses making resigning him a laughable

Take NFL leading run game, change blocking schemes, change O-line Coach and build around aging RB's

 

There's alot on the defensive side of the ball that says they can identify those players, but the O side looks very concerning

Edited October 30, 2018 by 5 Wide

[Roundybout]

Remember when Coach Tuesday wouldn't shut up about Zay Jones? Now that Zay looks competent at worst, I noticed he doesn't say too much anymore. He was wrong about that and I bet he will be wrong about his too. Mr. Instant Gratification.

[Success]

Rebuilds are painful.  We usually avoid full rebuilds,  and try to toe the line between trying to but also “remaining competitive.”

 

Let’s see this one through.

[Roundybout]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Oh. To get a QB you need to draft high?

 

You mean like when we could've drafted Watson or Mahomes and instead traded down and took a CB??

 

 

 

You don't want Tre White? Rather have Phil Gaines as no 1? ***** off.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Oh. To get a QB you need to draft high?

 

You mean like when we could've drafted Watson or Mahomes and instead traded down and took a CB??

 

 

 

So this whole thread is about Beane.  Beane wasn't here when those decisions were made. 

 

In fact, we had a lame duck GM.  So your solution is to invest the future in the franchise (and McDermotts future as a coach) in a QB that hasn't been vetted by your people?  QBs who almost universally were considered highly flawed prospects?  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, 5 Wide said:

 

I'm really questioning their grasp on the offensive side:

 

Draft Rookie QB 

- Give said Rookie QB a QB coach who had neither played QB nor has ever been a QB coach in the NFL

- Give Rookie QB no veteran voice in the room as a mentor nor have a player on the roster to truly play the caretaker role for a year

   - by his 3rd start, Allen had accumulated the most NFL playing experience on the Roster

Identify Kelvin Benjamin as someone to build around by giving up a 3rd round pick to acquire him

Watch Benjamin struggle with drops, lack of intensity and mental lapses making resigning him a laughable

Take NFL leading run game, change blocking schemes, change O-line Coach and build around aging RB's

 

There's alot on the defensive side of the ball that says they can identify those players, but the O side looks very concerning

 

I am too, but they will get the chance to fix the offense they both played a large role in breaking and subsequently not allocating any premium resources in the way of replacements.  It's a case of pure ineptness on the offensive side of the ball at this juncture.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson>>>>>>>> Tre White.

 

Its not even close.

 

Hindsight is such a cop out.  You are the worst kind of fan.  

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Remember when Coach Tuesday wouldn't shut up about Zay Jones? Now that Zay looks competent at worst, I noticed he doesn't say too much anymore. He was wrong about that and I bet he will be wrong about his too. Mr. Instant Gratification.

 

Zay is a replacement-level player made to look competent because of his surrounding cast.  The next tackle he breaks will be the first one.

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

McDermott runs the show here. Every decision goes through him. 

 

None of that is responsive. 

[oldmanfan]

49 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Finally people are realizing what a cluster Beane is.

 

He will end up going down as the worst GM this team has ever seen, and that is saying a lot.

 

The guy is clueless, yet has one of the biggest egos I have ever seen.

 

McDermott and Whaley were great together.  Provided a nice check and balance.  Whaley was able to scout, and McDermott was allowed to make the decisions based on Whaley's scouting.

 

Beane now runs everything player wise and it is a stark contrast to the talent that was brought in before he got here.

It always makes me laugh when folks around here talk about the worst in the history of the team for whatever factor they want to rant about that day, when they clearly have no clue as to the actual history of the team.

As long as Harvey Johnson is part of Bills history, the title of worst GM in history is secure.

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Zay is a replacement-level player made to look competent because of his surrounding cast.  The next tackle he breaks will be the first one.

 

So now we're judging WRs by tackles broken. 

 

Honestly, take your rug out and start nap time early today.

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson>>>>>>>> Tre White.

 

Its not even close.

 

Why don't you people ever acknowledge the supporting cast or coaching? Why? 

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Zay is a replacement-level player made to look competent because of his surrounding cast.  The next tackle he breaks will be the first one.

 

 

Still an improvement over how you whined for days over how he was the "worst you'd ever seen" and "not an NFL player"

[oldmanfan]

Just now, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Why don't you people ever acknowledge the supporting cast or coaching? Why? 

Because facts are dangerous things around here.

[JPP]

1 hour ago, Greybeard said:

        This IS the process.   Watch Gruden follow suit.   They weren't meant to make the playoffs last year.   That threw everything off.

BS......if they are "rebuilding" than why dont they follow the LA Rams model of rebuilding or the Eagles........what they are doing and what they have done is absurd!  Congrats....there is no excuse whatsoever at having an offense look like this!

[xsoldier54]

Guess it's a good thing they don't work for you.  Knee jerk reactions by an owner lead to nothing but chaos within an organization.  These two have been on the job less than two seasons and I can see their intent.  The offense still needs to be fixed, but the D is just fine.  I completely disagree with your premise that this was a top notch offense at any point in time over the past 15 or so years.  They haven't had a decent QB since Kelly and the O-Line has been putrid for most of that time.  You can't fix all of the holes that this team had in this amount of time.  The team will be fine, you just need to have some patience.  I know that's in short supply around these parts, but I would give them two more years before even considering firing either McDermott or Beane. 

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Success said:

Rebuilds are painful.  We usually avoid full rebuilds,  and try to toe the line between trying to but also “remaining competitive.”

 

Let’s see this one through.

 

But they arent that painful in today’s nfl. That’s the thing. Minus the qb position it’s actually pretty painless to assemble passable talent and then add a couple extra pieces. Very rarely do teams demolish the roster, yet alone in year 2.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Why don't you people ever acknowledge the supporting cast or coaching? Why? 

Because we have entered an era where "the truth" doesn't matter, only "your truth." It is about whatever your perception of the truth is at the moment, however you feel at the moment, and subjecting everyone else to those emotions - usually in some sort of adult equivalent to a two year old tantrum. 

[wnyguy]

The Owners, the Coach, and the GM should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves for fielding an offense like this.  If they wanted Josh Allen to sit and learn this year why didn't they sign a competent veteran QB during the off season to help mentor him? That's on them. no one else.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Both things are true.

No they aren’t. If you were concerned with accuracy, you’d say their attempts to bolster the WR group failed. 

 

But that wouldn’t fit in your shoddily made “negligence” argument.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished.

 

"One of the Highest-Producing Offenses in Franchise History..."

You can't be serious?  This team barely cracked the Top 10 in 2016 in PPG, and it was done almost entirely through the running game.  The passing game was bottom five in virtually every category.  It's completely revisionist history to suggest this team had a powerhouse offense.  We had a below-average QB and an rapidly aging Pro-Bowl RB.  We needed to take a step backwards to move forwards.

 

Quote

 

Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball.

 

Not one.

 

Beane traded away Sammy Watkins and Tyrod Taylor.  That's it.

The other big losses were retirements, which he had absolutely no control over.

 

The only offensive player Brandon Beane even TRIED DRAFTING in the first 4 rounds was Josh Allen.  The rest were on defense.

 

 

Quote

 

The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it.

 

They had limited resources.  Only so many draft picks.  Only so much cap space.

Instead of spreading it equally, they focused mostly on the defense. 

Next year, they can work on getting the offense up to par.

 

Quote

 

The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured.  

 

How did "lack of talent" result in Allen getting hurt?

Are you suggesting QBs with more talent never get hit or injured?

 

Quote

 

There is no excuse for this - none.  Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB.

 

Tanking would suggest purposely losing.  No, they are not doing that.

The proper term would be "rebuilding."  And lots of teams are still early into a rebuild the season after drafting a franchise QB.

 

Quote

 

Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason.  Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches.  Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass.  Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play...

 

They inherited the cap problems, and it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

 

The majority of Dead Cap money came from Marcel Dareus (traded), Eric Wood (retired), Cordy Glenn (traded) and Tyrod Taylor (traded).

Those four players ALONE account for literally 70% of the Dead Cap.

Throw in Aaron Williams, Vontae Davis and Ritchie Incognito (also retired), you can bump that number to 82% of the Dead Cap.

 

- There is nothing they could have done about the retirements.

- The Glenn and Taylor trades were significant in our moves to get Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds.

- They preferred taking a one-year hit for Dareus, rather than letting him be a salary cap drain for the next 4 years.

 

Quote

 

This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be.  No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so.

 

Yes.  They could have allocated more resources to the offense. 

But then the defense wouldn't be as good.  The offense might be slightly better... but probably not, because we are undergoing the growing pains of playing a rookie quarterback.

 

Honestly.  What free agent WRs do you think would have significantly improved this offense?  Allen Robinson?  Michael Crabtree?  Jordy Nelson?  Paul Richardson?  Maybe we could have given Watkins $48 million or traded for Jarvis Landry?

Take away Star Lotuleilei or Trent Murphy and give us the above -- I still think we are struggling to score points.

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley.

 

Many All-22 reviews are suggesting that Zay Jones is playing much better (still his second year mind you) and getting open consistently.  But it doesn't matter right now, because our QB just can't get him the ball. 

 

This regime hasn't dedicated a lot of resources towards the WR position.  YET.

And honestly, I really can't blame them.  Weapons are going to be wasted until our QB develops.

Kelvin Benjamin was an accomplished WR before coming here.  So was Jordan Matthews.  Neither guy looked like they belonged on an NFL roster after playing in Buffalo.

 

Quote

 

I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him.  Why wait?  I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that?  Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason.  Now is the time to make the change.

 

And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine.  This will put him on notice.  He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right.  They are clueless.  If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired.  But they probably won't.

 

Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward.

 

One of the reasons the SAME TEAMS continue to be good and the SAME TEAMS continue to struggle?  Continuity.

The bad teams can never catch up, because they get impatient after 2-3 seasons and blow everything up.  Then a new guy comes in and the cycle restarts.

 

This was Beane's plan.  He was not going to play around for 3 seasons with Tyrod Taylor or some mediocre veteran at the helm, hoping a top QB prospect somehow dropped in his lap.  He wasn't going to let himself be burdened for the next 3 seasons with bloated under-performing contracts, weighing down his ability to make free agent decisions.  So he purged the bad contracts for picks, then aggressively traded up to get himself a QB - knowing FULL WELL it was going to hurt this team's chances in 2018.  He believed that sacrificing a season would give us the best chance at taking the next step (towards a championship).  He's been here for ONE offseason!!!!!!!!!!  Give him a chance to see if his plan can work!!!!!

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by mjt328

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What are you talking about? 

 

Tre white who's a very good corner or a freaking QB like Mahomes/Watson?

 

Again, it's not even close.

 

Come on Scott. I'm talking about Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, and a stellar offensive line.

[wnyguy]

I don't understand anyone defending the front office for putting an offense this bad on the field.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Come on Scott. I'm talking about Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, and a stellar offensive line.

 

Regardless of the supporting cast, Mahomes is playing like a virtuoso and Watson is out there making plays behind an awful OL. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m confused. What rebuild? The offense has been 100% ignored! They have two older running backs, no up and coming Linemen, a receiving group with zero future, and a tight end with no heart. How in Gods name is this a rebuild? With the possible exception of Josh Allen the offense hasn’t even started to rebuild yet. It’s in the total demolition phase.

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I agree with much of Coach Tuesday's reasoning but not his conclusion. I don't think the conclusion is wrong so much as it is premature. 

 

I am giving the pair of them this offseason to turn it around. But this team better look a lot better in 2019. Not just going from a likely 3-13ish season to a 6-10. Like this team needs to be .500 or better and look like a team on the verge of really competing next season or else I am firing them both after 2019.

The regime excruciatingly put themselves in a position that they wanted to be in. They wanted to rework the roster and the cap structure. The issue comes down to could they have accomplished what they set out to do with a more incremental and less dismantling approach? As demonstrated by their actions they clearly devised a full throttle strategy to take their hits up front in order to establish a more clean slate divorced from the past. 

 

As you noted what they do this offseason with the position they are in will determine whether that strategy will have worked. Now that they have the wherewithal will they use it wisely to address many of the holes that they themselves have created? There are many who are in a panic how this season has materialized. I'm not. It shouldn't have been a surprise. Because of the plain view of  shedding of players and salaries every credible analyst predicted how this season would unfold for this rebuilding franchise. 

 

My question to the frantic fans who are in a state of frenzy is when an organization makes a decision to rebuild what did you expect? Smooth sailing and immediate results? Let's get serious and deal with the real world. Fantasy is not the harsh reality of this gruesome process. If you want to seriously judge then wait for the offseason and next draft and see how the roster is being bolstered or not. And wait at least until next year to make a decision as to whether Josh Allen is capable of being a franchise qb.   

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Regardless of the supporting cast, Mahomes is playing like a virtuoso and Watson is out there making plays behind an awful OL. 

 

Yeah, put the virtuoso on this squad and see what happens.

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Again,

 

What the ***** is your point? 

 

They passed on two QBs for a CB.

 

The point is neither would be as good as they are on this team as it is now. Facts.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m confused. What rebuild? The offense has been 100% ignored! They have two older running backs, no up and coming Linemen, a receiving group with zero future, and a tight end with no heart. How in Gods name is this a rebuild? With the possible exception of Josh Allen the offense hasn’t even started to rebuild yet. It’s in the total demolition phase.

It will take more than one offseason.  One can only assume they focus on offense this coming offseason.