Brandon Beane deserves to be fired tomorrow

[bigduke6]

im gonna assume that Pegula is an intelligent man.  ill also assume he will try and build the Bills the same way he has the sabres,  through high draft picks.

mainly because we cant get free agents to come here unless we grossly overpay for them,  and that in the end hurts the team.

 

so u cant get top free agents,  free agents u do get most likely are close to garbage or else they wouldnt be here in the first place,   u have a new front office that only has one full draft in the books. 

 

now,  building through the draft takes time,   clearly,  1 year isnt enough.   You could fire everybody,  sure,  but then u start all over again with another guy who wants "his" guys,  players who fit "his" system.    which takes more time.  what to do?

 

i firmly believe that the FO had no plans to finish with the record they did last year.   It was an unofficial/official tank year.    This was the year we got our QB.   Maybe they got the QB they really wanted,  also possible they didnt and put on a good face in light of the situation.  again, what to do?

 

IMO,  u give everybody some more rope.   near constant turnover of players, coaches, and FO staff has made this team a mess.   1 step forward,  2 steps back when u clean house over and over again.    stick with people,  let them work it out.    some things cant be fixed overnight.   plenty of coaches and players who have been terrible in one place then made good eventually given time.   

 

if you try and fix a problem with a bandaid,  the problem doesnt get fixed,  eventually the bandaid falls off and  youre right back where u started.  patience.

 

one more thing,   build the friggen offensive line first.   dont worry about "skill" players.    most important players on the field are both lines and the QB.  do it!

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, wnyguy said:

I don't understand anyone defending the front office for putting an offense this bad on the field.

 

 

Agreed.   This goes way beyond "process' in terms of ineptitude.   

 

Every single decision on WR trades/signings, FA acquisitions and offensive coaching hires has been ineffective to downright bad.   That's a remarkable string in a league where "hidden talent" is uncovered all the time.    

 

I was down for a sub-500 season, but this level of inept offensive production is breathtaking.   They have until week 8 of next season to turn it around or the whole 'process' will begin again.   Rinse and repeat...

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

 

 

Fair enough, we will see if the changes they made with the Beane and McDermott hiring prove that the Pegulas have learned from past mistakes.

 

My general point is without ownership being strong at the top, sustained success will never be achieved, which is what we all want, regardless of GM, coach and even QB.

 

I am not one ready to fire Beane and McD today like some.  Beane thinks outside the box and I like that.  Give him at least till 2020 and we will reassess at that time.

I guess my question would be how one defines strong ownership.  Some like Kraft get more involved in day to day things and are successful and others like Snyder or Jerry aren't successful.  Some stay hands off and it works, some don't.

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The plan is a bad one. 

 

That's the point. 

 

They didnt need to make this a 5 year rebuild. They wont see it through unless they have an outstanding offseason.

 

Based on their complete lack of foresight I don't see it happening.

 

[Lurker]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And hopefully Pegula learned a lesson if this is what happens. 

 

I won't hold my breath for Pegs learning anything.   He strikes me more and more as a Chauncey Gardner-type...

[Southern Bills Fan]

I agree. We should fire everyone each time we lose. Then people will know not to lose and we will win all the time. 

[Seasons1992]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

 

 Brandon actually brought in some nice players.

 

Aaron Maybin is here to see you, sir......

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

McDermott and Beane are joined at the hip.  They deserve a chance to fix the offense by adding talent to support Allen with the hope that he's the franchise QB. They have through 2019 at a minimum. 

 

I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC.

 

I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change...

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

 

I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC.

 

I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change...

 

There's definitely a case to be made for this. I think he's very much stuck in a time warp with regard to his philosophy/approach to offensive football in the modern day NFL. 

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished.

 

Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball.

 

Not one.

 

The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it.

 

The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured.  

 

There is no excuse for this - none.  Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB.

 

Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason.  Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches.  Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass.  Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play...

 

This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be.  No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so.

 

Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley.

 

I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him.  Why wait?  I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that?  Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason.  Now is the time to make the change.

 

And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine.  This will put him on notice.  He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right.  They are clueless.  If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired.  But they probably won't.

 

Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward.

 

People can say “fire Beane. Fire McDermott.  Fire Daboll.”  None if this happen tomorrow and probably won’t happen in January.  The one guy I can see getting the axe is Denny Crossman.  

[Tcali]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The systematic dismantling of one of the Bills' highest-producing offenses in franchise history, replacing it over two years with what is shaping up to be statistically the worst offense in the modern era - an incredible feat when you consider that offenses are scoring points at a record pace - cannot go unpunished.

 

Brandon Beane gutted the offense and has failed to draft or acquire a single quality player on that side of the ball.

 

Not one.

 

The 2017 WR group was the worst in the NFL - and they did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to upgrade it.

 

The lack of talent on offense predictably led to the highly-invested QB getting seriously injured.  

 

There is no excuse for this - none.  Don't tell me they're "tanking" - no team tanks the year AFTER drafting their franchise QB.

 

Don't tell me they have cap problems and are "rebuilding" - those problems are self-imposed, and even if they were sound decisions (which is dubious), there is no excuse for failing to even attempt to acquire playmakers during the offseason.  Find some speedy gadget WRs and a James White-type scat back who can create mismatches.  Find me one - ONE tight end who can BLOCK, let alone occasionally get open and catch a pass.  Find me a guard who can move laterally without running into his own guys, or a right tackle who can at least attempt to execute a cut block without taking himself, and only himself, out of the play...

 

This offense is a shambles and it absolutely positively did not have to be.  No one expected this team to contend for the Super Bowl this season but fans act like there is nothing in between a Lombardi and the first overall draft pick - it just ain't so.

 

Brandon Beane's "solutions" at WR have included trading up for Zay Jones (if you want to put that draft on him - fine with me if you don't), trading Watkins, trading for Kelvin Benjamin, trading for Jordan Matthews, trading for Corey Coleman, signing Jeremy Kerley.

 

I would let Beane spend the day working the trade wire and, come 4:01 p.m., if the roster is not upgraded for 2019, I would fire him.  Why wait?  I suppose you could do the Bills-y thing and wait until Beane squanders $80M in salary cap room and 8 draft picks, but why saddle the next GM with that?  Get a head start now - once the trade deadline has come and gone, there really isn't much more for the GM to do until the offseason.  Now is the time to make the change.

 

And for those of you who want to tell me that it's really McD calling the shots - fine.  This will put him on notice.  He has no business making personnel decisions and screw the Pegulas for their nonsensical org chart - they want to piss away their $1B business, I guess that's their right.  They are clueless.  If they understood accountability, they'd tell McDermott he's going to be judged based upon Juan Castillo and David Culley and the rest of the bogus offensive coaching staff that McD hired.  But they probably won't.

 

Fire Beane, do it tomorrow morning, rip the bandaid off and move forward.

to be fair to the 2017 wr group they really had no one to throw it to them-----which folds back to the responsibility of the GM

6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I don't think McD is a bad head coach. Last year the talent on the roster was crap and it is even worse this year, team plays hard, especially on D. Provided he doesn't screw up and lose the locker room, he should stay as HC.

 

I do think that the Pegulas may have over reacted with the Whaley-Marrone, Whaley-Rex and Russ Brandon non-sense and over-corrected with their org structure. We don't really know how much personnel say McD, but it appears he has a lot of say and that is what may need to change...

gotta give McB credit for getting guys to give him 100%

[Maybe Someday]

This place is solid gold.  I think I just got hit with a piece of the falling sky.  McBeane will get a fair shot to finish executing their plan.  Will it work?  Maybe, maybe not but I am fairly certain that if we just continually turnover the staff, we'll continue going nowhere.  

 

1 hour ago, mbossman2 said:

So Beane and/or McDermmot should be fired.

 

If you advocate for that, tell us all: who are you going to get to replace them?  Anybody you put forth has be to willing to come here after you have just canned the HC and/or GM after a year and a half.

 

This is one of the points I tried to make in the fire McD thread.  What coach or GM worth a damn will want to come here if we keep pulling the plug so quickly? 

 

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And hopefully Pegula learned a lesson if this is what happens. 

 

Build off the talent you have in place already. Don't trade it just because of "culture" and "process". 

 

But what if those players, as physically talented as they are, only add laziness and selfishness to that culture?  All while taking up very large chunks of cap space.  I hate to use them as an example because I don't want to put McD in the same category as Belicheat but look at the "Patriot* way".  It doesn't matter how talented a guy is, if he doesn't get with the plan and do his job to the best of his ability every singe play, he's gone.  Belicheat was that way from day #1 in Cleveland before he was the hooded one.  All 53 need to buy in and move forward in the same direction for a team to be successful.  Those who don't end up being cancers in the locker room.  Plenty of other teams have gotten rid of talented players for that very reason as well. 

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

There's definitely a case to be made for this. I think he's very much stuck in a time warp with regard to his philosophy/approach to offensive football in the modern day NFL. 

I can't kill him for it yet, because that area of the team has been torn down and not rebuilt - I have no clue what his "vision" is at this point.

 

I can kill someone or many people for addressing the defense instead of the offense this past offseason. Mostly due to this being a strong defensive draft coming up, lack of good offensive weapons available in this upcoming wave of FA and the fact that we took a QB at 7 which was always part of our plans. I get there were some financial constraints, but we screwed the pooch a bit there IMO...

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

I can't kill him for it yet, because that area of the team has been torn down and not rebuilt - I have no clue what his "vision" is at this point.

 

I can kill someone or many people for addressing the defense instead of the offense this past offseason. Mostly due to this being a strong defensive draft coming up, lack of good offensive weapons available in this upcoming wave of FA and the fact that we took a QB at 7 which was always part of our plans. I get there were some financial constraints, but we screwed the pooch a bit there IMO...

 

He has repeatedly said that you have to run the ball and be tough in Buffalo with weather as a consideration.  I find this troubling. 

[John from Riverside]

If this is still happening after this upcoming draft and free agency....I am totally on board with that

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Who are we talking about? 

 

Is Watkins a lockeroom cancer to the Chiefs right now? 

Watkins ruined the Rams last year and this season he is single handedly sabotaging the Chiefs.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Who are we talking about? 

 

Is Watkins a lockeroom cancer to the Chiefs right now? 

 

The only one of those guys that you can honestly say was a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour on a consistent basis was Dareus. 

 

[87168]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Watkins ruined the Rams last year and this season he is single handedly sabotaging the Chiefs.

no, no he didn't.

 

did you miss Sunday's game? if two TDs is sabotage, then please, sign the Bills up.

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He has repeatedly said that you have to run the ball and be tough in Buffalo with weather as a consideration.  I find this troubling. 

 

There is an element of truth about it - you can't build dome team here and the running game is still important (Gurley & the Rams, Saints, Chiefs) and the players left on our offense are still vestiges of those systems from Marrone and Rex. 

 

As a bills fan and seeing what we have done in the past with this, I entirely understand the concern. He also cut his coaching chops under Andy Reid, so I do have some hope.

[bigduke6]

some of u act like Watkins wanted to resign here.....from all appearances he most likely wouldnt have.  He wanted too much and he was injury prone while here.    Not a real hard decision to get what u could for him.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

 

There is an element of truth about it - you can't build dome team here and the running game is still important (Gurley & the Rams, Saints, Chiefs) and the players left on our offense are still vestiges of those systems from Marrone and Rex. 

 

As a bills fan and seeing what we have done in the past with this, I entirely understand the concern. He also cut his coaching chops under Andy Reid, so I do have some hope.

 

Different side of the ball and I'm afraid that he thinks like many DCs who becomes HCs with the Panthers' Rivera as his primary influence. 

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He has repeatedly said that you have to run the ball and be tough in Buffalo with weather as a consideration.  I find this troubling. 

Agreed. There’s no reason the Bills cannot be a similarly built team to the Steelers or even Kansas City. Green Bay et al. Those teams throw it plenty. Buffalo doesn’t = we need to play 1970’s football and hide our QB. Troubling indeed. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

Where does this crap come from? 

Right? I remember SW saying he wanted to be a Bill for life while he was still here. A lot of fiction out there now. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Different side of the ball and I'm afraid that he thinks like many DCs who becomes HCs with the Panthers' Rivera as his primary influence. 

 

Rivera was 2 games from being fired after losing to EJ and the Bills back in 2013. He survived by adapting and becoming less conservative. 

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Different side of the ball and I'm afraid that he thinks like many DCs who becomes HCs with the Panthers' Rivera as his primary influence. 

 

I know and I hope you are wrong  

 

Being serious for a moment, how does a defensive coach fall  into the trap of lets have a strong run game and a stout defense mold in the first place? They have to game plan against the Pats, the Rams, Brees, Rodgers, P. Manning etc. and they know they have their hands full trying to cover everyone - how do they not mirror an offense that gives defenses fits? How do they not work on an offense that they know gives defenses issues? You would think that by analyzing what keeps them up at night to stop, they would include those same philosophies in their approach to the offensive side of the ball. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, 87168 said:

no, no he didn't.

 

did you miss Sunday's game? if two TDs is sabotage, then please, sign the Bills up.

2 cancerous TDs and 100 poisonous yards.  The Chiefs are on life support right now at the top of the AFC.

[Maybe Someday]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Who are we talking about? 

 

Is Watkins a lockeroom cancer to the Chiefs right now? 

 

Sammy admitted last year while with the Rams that he was selfish and not the best teammate while in Buffalo.  The change of scenery helped him grow up.  I viewed getting rid of him like a baseball trade.  We weren't resigning him to the contract he would have demanded so we got something for him while we could. 

[bigduke6]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

Where does this crap come from? 

what part wasnt factual,  enlighten me.   He wasnt injury prone?   He didnt want top receiver money?    You give that kind of money to a guy who cant stay on the field?   Its nice that hes landed on his feet elsewhere,  but this is a business.  Besides,  who's throwing Sammy the ball here?   so ya crap.

[Maybe Someday]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Right? I remember SW saying he wanted to be a Bill for life while he was still here. A lot of fiction out there now. 

 

Come on man, they all say they want to play for their current team for life. 

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

 

Sammy admitted last year while with the Rams that he was selfish and not the best teammate while in Buffalo.  The change of scenery helped him grow up.  I viewed getting rid of him like a baseball trade.  We weren't resigning him to the contract he would have demanded so we got something for him while we could. 

 

There are things called player development programs which could address that internally, without having to expel the talented player.  McD seems insecure to me.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Rivera was 2 games from being fired after losing to EJ and the Bills back in 2013. He survived by adapting and becoming less conservative. 

 

He did indeed, but McDermott's mantra is concerning nonetheless.

 

5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I know and I hope you are wrong  

 

Being serious for a moment, how does a defensive coach fall  into the trap of lets have a strong run game and a stout defense mold in the first place? They have to game plan against the Pats, the Rams, Brees, Rodgers, P. Manning etc. and they know they have their hands full trying to cover everyone - how do they not mirror an offense that gives defenses fits? How do they not work on an offense that they know gives defenses issues? You would think that by analyzing what keeps them up at night to stop, they would include those same philosophies in their approach to the offensive side of the ball. 

 

I'd love to be wrong and I want to hear him say he advocates for a K-Gun style offense in Buffalo.   It might be awhile because it seems to be a core principle with him. 

[bigduke6]

no i said some of u act like he wanted to resign here,  you have no idea whether he did or didnt.......

 

and most likely the FO had no idea either,  so they got what they could.  end of story.    i know that its an age of making up facts to suit your version of the narrative,  but ffs.......its tiring.

Edited October 30, 2018 by bigduke6

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I expected it to be pretty bad too. I am not panicking but some of the games have been borderline unwatchable.You can't put that product on the field two years in a row. That is why I say they don't just need to be better next year. They need to look like they are on the cusp of something.

Borderline unwatchable? For me that masochistic Rubicon has already been crossed. If the weather is good I go out and enjoy it. I tape the games and then if I find out, whether they win or lose, if it was worth watching.. 

 

I'm not pessimistic about our situation and the future. I'm not going to allow myself to wallow in misery. I understand what this regime's strategy is, and I see it being followed. There is a path to success and the leap forward is this offseason. It that quantum leap of bolstering the roster isn't done this year then this franchise and regime will go through another cycle of turmoil. 

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

I'd love to be wrong and I want to hear him say he advocates for a K-Gun style offense in Buffalo.   It might be awhile because it seems to be a core principle with him. 

 

I don't see McD as a coach who will say what he envisions and where he would ideally like aspects of his team to be like. My thought is that talk like that would alienate players who are on the team and don't fit that scheme. Culture is important to him and he has to say the right things to keep the team playing and buying into each other week after week.

 

We all know that Dennison was not the OC he wanted last year and took what he could get. The OC style we want vs what we can get has to play into it as well. Clarity as to what he is looking for is based on who stays and who goes.

 

Not to side track this, but a fairly simple scheme in which you can run multiple plays out of the same formation isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

 

That being said, I'm a bit over a HC saying we going no-huddle like Dickey J and Marrone & Nate. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Dr. K said:

Much as I question the McBeane regime and hate the words "The Process," this sounds rational to me. McBeane get another season. But I am not confident about their personnel decisions given some of the choices they have made so far.  

You are entitled to your skepticism because it is merited. This regime had a road map. It was to redo the roster and restructure the cap. They accomplished that. Now they are in a situation that they desired and created. This offseason if they don't utilized their accumulated assets (cap space and draft picks) to significantly upgrade the roster they will not only have damaged the franchise but also jeopardized their jobs. I believe they are on the right path but I can not say it with overflowing confidence. 

[John from Riverside]

25 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

 

Sammy admitted last year while with the Rams that he was selfish and not the best teammate while in Buffalo.  The change of scenery helped him grow up.  I viewed getting rid of him like a baseball trade.  We weren't resigning him to the contract he would have demanded so we got something for him while we could. 

What is interesting is Watkins is not even the best WR on that team....Tyrek Hill is like fricken amazing.....Watkins is a complementary player

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What is interesting is Watkins is not even the best WR on that team....Tyrek Hill is like fricken amazing.....Watkins is a complementary player

 

But he would be the best receiver on this time by several country miles. 

[Batman1876]

29 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

There are things called player development programs which could address that internally, without having to expel the talented player.  McD seems insecure to me.

I think he decided that Sammy's contributions did not warrant a 14-16 Million dollar payday especially when a 2nd round pick could be acquired.  Seems reasonable to me. 

[dickleyjones]

5 hours ago, jahnyc said:

I strongly disagree with posters who state that this was all planned or this is part of the rebuild process.  

 

but it was. you don't like it, lots of people don't it seems, but it was, and still is, the plan. the extreme ineptitude can be chalked up to a couple extra linemen leaving which i am sure was not the plan but thems the breaks. without that, they would have been simply inept. instead of 6 wins we get 3 wins. oh well.

 

if i am wrong then beane will be fired. but if he stays on that says all i need to know about the pegulas, beane, and "the plan".

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But he would be the best receiver on this time by several country miles. 

I am absolutely not debating that