The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

[BuffaloHokie13]

15 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Kizer threw for 2800 yards and added 400 yards rushing as a rookie. He was rightfully dismissed.

 

Do you see Allen approaching those numbers?

He's practically on pace for that right now. Factor in experience, opponents, and more home games down the stretch and I'd say it's more than likely he eclipses those numbers. The number Allen really needs to avoid is Kizer's turnover number. 28 in 15 starts is pretty rough.

[thebandit27]

47 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'm sure there were more, but @thebandit27 & @Turbosrrgood both really liked Mahomes pre-draft. Jeffismagic left the board because we didn't draft him, among other things. I wasn't very high on any of the QBs that year, but favored Watson over the rest. Footwork was my major concern with Mahomes.

 

Blokes and I were the original "Mahomers" on this board...back in June of 2016:

Turbos wasn't far behind though.

 

Jeff and Billsareback were very late bloomers.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Success said:

There is so much revisionist history about Mahomes now.  I can’t even remember one poster wanting him in that draft.  It was consensus that we fleeced KC, and most were ridiculing Reid for trading up to get a guy that was a 2nd rounder at best.  The board would have gone nuts if we took him in the first, and not in a good way.

 

Now, every other poster is all “I was saying we should have taken him - top player on my board.”  It’s like everyone from the ‘60’s saying they were at Woodstock.

In my defense, I wasn’t a poster here at the time. Mahomes was my favorite QB prospect since the Jameis/Mariota draft.

[Tcali]

Allen is a winner.He has that look about him. Yes he has accuracy problems and is extremely raw. But we are 2-2 with him(barely;)

 

The O coordinator needs to call quick passes and fast developing straight forward runs..Needs to keep it simpler. The D is playing so well.

Last sundays game should have been a comfortable win by the Bills

[Success]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

In my defense, I wasn’t a poster here at the time. Mahomes was my favorite QB prospect since the Jameis/Mariota draft.

That’s cool, and I believe you.  I’m sure some did - but in terms of the board, I remember a bunch of “please no Mahomes” posts

[BillsFan4]

 

good analysis of this play (and Allen’s struggle reading a defense) by Erik Turner (Cover 1). 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

good analysis of this play (and Allen’s struggle reading a defense) by Erik Turner (Cover 1). 

 

That was hideous. 

[VW82]

I'm amazed at how resilient some of you guys are in your faith that Allen will come through this ok. Like, even Mitch Trubisky wasn't this raw as a rookie. It's so scary. 

 

This article did a great job of highlighting a bunch of the issues I've seen over the first five weeks plus preseason. Again, so much of this has absolutely nothing to do with the supporting cast. If you're still claiming it does, you didn't read the article or watch the video evidence, or any of the games really. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by VW82

[Thurman#1]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:59 PM, HappyDays said:

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/10/09/josh-allens-struggles-go-beyond-lackluster-supporting-cast/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he needs development. Hopefully development will be enough.

 

It's just nonsense, though, that mental reps don't help. They do, a great deal.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I'm amazed at how resilient some of you guys are in your faith that Allen will come through this ok. Like, even Mitch Trubisky wasn't this raw as a rookie. It's so scary. 

 

This article did a great job of highlighting a bunch of the issues I've seen over the first five weeks plus preseason. Again, so much of this has absolutely nothing to do with the supporting cast. If you're still claiming it does, you didn't read the article or watch the video evidence, or any of the games really. 

Do hang around as Josh Allen improves with your "observations" dont go running into a hole.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No. Nobody aside from maybe Deshone Kizer has looked as bad as Peterman did this year. Peterman is measurably the worst QB to get this many chances this millennium.

 

 

Nah. Pretty much nothing about this is measureable. You can come up with one number but there are hundreds that factor in. It's all opinion. Educated opinion but opinion.

 

Peterman might still be very successful. The odds dipped after that recent game but it's not like Allen passed significantly better than Peterman did under the same circumstances. What Allen did in that game was run better.

[VW82]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Do hang around as Josh Allen improves with your "observations" dont go running into a hole.

 

Believe me I'll be first in line to eat crow if it means Josh is figuring it out. 20 years of sh!tty QB play has me a little on the cynical side. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Believe me I'll be first in line to eat crow if it means Josh is figuring it out. 20 years of sh!tty QB play has me a little on the cynical side. 

I understand

 

I apologize for my post I need to realize that not everyone is being a !@#$ with their comments on Josh Allen

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Offensively what has this regime done.  Mcd has proven that he's a DC and has no clue how to build a modern day NFL offense.  This WR core is his this Oline is his guys his offensive stuff is horrible he brought these guys here.  Mcd hasn't proven anything but utter incompetence on the offensive side of the ball. This is the reason he will get the can after next season.  When we struggle even with the additions he will make on this offense. This front office and coaching staff will set this team bk a decade. Keep buying this process there feeding u. When the process has been nothing but incompetence since the first day.

 

 

You're either trolling or clueless.

 

Saying McD has proven he has no clue how to build a modern day NFL offense is like saying a woman who's four months pregnant has proven she can't develop a baby to full term.

 

In both cases it's so early that anyone who thinks he can make a final judgment is saying far more about his lack of understanding than he is about McD.

 

 

[Fadingpain]

4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

good analysis of this play (and Allen’s struggle reading a defense) by Erik Turner (Cover 1). 

Where are the "We need better support players and WRs for Allen!" on this one?

 

On just about every passing play I have seen broken down to this level (with a good overhead view of the whole field) there are 1 or 2 receivers open, but Allen doesn't see them or throw to them.

 

We can have the best WRs in the league but they aren't going to be any better at catching passes never thrown to them.

 

This stuff is what has dogged Allen throughout his collegiate career and why people use terms like "Raw" to describe him.  That's just one way of saying "he doesn't get it."

Will he?  And within the amount of time the team will give him?

 

He probably has what? 20 games to show he can do it?  

 

The clock is ticking.

 

 

 

[TwistofFate]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

For a game.....oh by the way that team still made the playoffs lol

They didnt cut TT....they TRADED him (get your facts straight)....and yes....they addressed the QB position in a big way by making drafting a QB high that had consideration for the number one overall pick......but I have this sneaking suspiciion that had they KEPT Tyrod you would be bitching about that....you know cuz troll posts.

Because they are rebiulding....do you understand

Because he is a rookie, raw, and they are rebiulding

You have absolutely no idea how the transactions take place....the player actually wants to come here...this isnt Madden you know?

No its actually what you punch bowl pissers like to call a debacle.....for all we know this was part of the plan.....they are REBIULDING.   yet despite all this we are 2-3

How in the $*$& would you know what "handled correctly" even means armchair GM?   I am quite sure your resume would be taken into consideration if you submitted it they are always looking for people to clean the urinals?

We are here every day Mr. under 50 posts......supporting the team.   Your evaluation means less then spit

Intead of fleacing I am thinking it ended up being a fair trade.....we didnt JUST get the 1st round pick out of the deal.

You've proven my point, thank you. 

 

The entire Qb position has been a DEBACLE from the word go.   This regime has zero clue on how to handle it. 

 

You simply make excuses and chalk it up to rebuilding and being raw.   It's hilarious.  It's called ineptitude and there is plenty of it going on around the Qb position. 

 

Furthermore I could care less about the amount of posts you, I, or anyone else has.   It literally has nothing to do with the accuracy or knowledge of the topic we are discussing.  I didn't just roll up on this board, I've been a member for 7 years who mainly read. 

 

I was a member of the Bills message board for YEARS before it was closed down, so please,  spare me the childish banter. 

 

Allen sucks, Tyrod was cut/traded (doesn't make a difference which, the effect remains) McCarron was acquired then sent packing, and we've made a Qb change after one game this season.  After realizing how bad they screwed up the Qb situation in the off-season, they've  now signed another Qb citing the reason as a veteran mentor. 

 

If you can't see how terrible their process of evaluating and selecting starting Qbs is by the horrible decisions they've made and continue to make, I really don't know what more to say to you. 

 

PS...for the record, I'm a GM in real life.  So I'm not an "arm chair" GM.   I assess, recruit, and release talent on a regular basis. It's not football related, it's business related. Same difference. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by TwistofFate

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

You've proven my point, thank you. 

 

The entire Qb position has been a DEBACLE from the word go.   This regime has zero clue on how to handle it. 

 

You simply make excuses and chalk it up to rebuilding and being raw.   It's hilarious.  It's called ineptitude and there is plenty of it going on around the Qb position. 

 

Furthermore I could care less about the amount of posts you, I, or anyone else has.   It literally has nothing to do with the accuracy or knowledge of the topic we are discussing.  I didn't just roll up on this board, I've been a member for 7 years who mainly read. 

 

I was a member of the Bills message board for YEARS before it was closed down, so please,  spare me the childish banter. 

 

Allen sucks, Tyrod was cut/traded (doesn't make a difference which, the effect remains) McCarron was acquired then sent packing, and we've made a Qb change after one game this season.  After realizing how bad they screwed up the Qb situation in the off-season, they've  now signed another Qb citing the reason as a veteran mentor. 

 

If you can't see how terrible their process of evaluating and selecting starting Qbs is by the horrible decisions they've made and continue to make, I really don't know what more to say to you. 

Your fricken delusional

[TwistofFate]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Your fricken delusional

It's factual, not delusional. It's called reality. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

It's factual, not delusional. It's called reality. 

There is not a fact in there....just your version of what happened and what might happen.....those are opinions not facts

 

Dont even know that Tyrod was traded......but then you know....those darn facts

[TwistofFate]

Delusional....? 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/21/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-tyrod-taylor-nathan-peterman-process-nfl-week-12/

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/11/20/16679622/transcript-sean-mcdermott-nathan-peterman-tyrod-taylor-on-chargers-game-debacle

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/31/buffalo-bills-aj-mcarron/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/04/26/josh-allen-josh-rosen-lamar-jackson/

 

Tell me more about how I'm delusional. 

 

This regime has made mistake after mistake. 

 

The Anderson signing again shows they don't know what they're doing, and to make matter worse,  McD refuses to admit he's made multiple mistakes at the position. 

 

He continues to avoid answering directly when questioned by offering up responses such as,  I did what's best for the team, we are trying to win now and in the future, I did what's best for the team, we're looking to grow and learn, and I did what's best for the team.   By the way, have I told about the process yet? 

Edited October 12, 2018 by TwistofFate

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

There is not a fact in there....just your version of what happened and what might happen.....those are opinions not facts

 

Dont even know that Tyrod was traded......but then you know....those darn facts

You know this would be easier --> 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Delusional....? 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/21/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-tyrod-taylor-nathan-peterman-process-nfl-week-12/

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/11/20/16679622/transcript-sean-mcdermott-nathan-peterman-tyrod-taylor-on-chargers-game-debacle

I supposed HC's dont ever make mistakes during a NFL season......(Tyrod was not even playing well when they made that change....it was understood why they made the change)

 

But then....you know the team still made the playoffs.....those darn facts again

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

You know this would be easier --> 

I will get their War....this guy is a clown

[TwistofFate]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There is not a fact in there....just your version of what happened and what might happen.....those are opinions not facts

 

Dont even know that Tyrod was traded......but then you know....those darn facts

? I knew Tyrod was traded.   Traded or cut its the same difference.   He wasn't coming back, that's the bottom line. Whether the found a trade partner or not, Tyrod was not wearing a Bills jersey this year, and if you believe that, you're delusional. 

 

What I'm stating is absolutely fact.   Look at the timeline of mistakes!   Look how they back tracked to fix the mistakes.  It doesn't take a godamn rocket scientist to see what happened! It simply takes someone who isn't drinking kool-aid, and is looking at the facts objectively.

[Ol Dirty B]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:29 AM, Gugny said:

 

"Don't turn the ball over and force your opponent to go the entire field equals a win."

 

Isn't this true for any team?

 

In the 90's maybe. You shouldn't have a chance at winning a game with 12 points now. You're making the field position argument, some are for it. I don't believe it. I think the upper half of the league has a chance to march down the field and score, regardless of where they start.

On 10/9/2018 at 10:58 AM, No Place To Hyde said:

No way. Not even a question. At least Allen is working on those things 100% in practice and in live games. Jackson is working on gimmick plays. 

 

I would agree hes behind Darnold...who had most of the off season working with the 1s. He is behind Rosen who has more around him to help out. And hey, hey was behind both coming in. No change there. 

 

One thing I do see,with Allen is he isn't making the same mistakes over and over. He spends a game doing something poorly and the following week it's been corrected. 

 

He's learning to throw the ball away. He is learning to hang longer in the pocket. Timing and trust will come,as well. If I was placing a $5,000 bet I would say we see a 250 yard game before another sub 90 yard game.

 

So he's behind Darnold who spent most of the off season working with the 1's. Both of the QB's we had working with the 1's most of this team should be off the roster within in the next few weeks. Would you put that on McDermott?

 

The way you phrase that sounds like an excuse for Allen and the team, when maybe it shouldn't. Not trying to put words in your mouth, I could be taking it out of context.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Mountain Man]

On 10/9/2018 at 2:59 PM, HappyDays said:

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/10/09/josh-allens-struggles-go-beyond-lackluster-supporting-cast/

 

 

 

 

 

Shock horror : The draft network don't like Allen. You mean the guys who were trashing Josh Allen more than anyone else before the draft, don't like him after. Wow.

[unclepete]

I don’t understand how you draftba Qb in today’s day and age with under a 60% completion ratio. 

[John from Riverside]

22 minutes ago, unclepete said:

I don’t understand how you draftba Qb in today’s day and age with under a 60% completion ratio. 

Because you choose not to accept the reasons why his completion ratio was so low

 

ppl like you are not even worth debating about it......like talking to a wall

[BigDingus]

On 10/9/2018 at 9:10 AM, RyanC883 said:

(1) Allen does need to develop; but 

 

(2) the supporting cast sucks. 

 

Yes, both are true, but like the All-22 shows, Allen is the one limiting the supporting cast at the moment, so it doesn't really matter. Until he gets to be even semi-decent, the limits of the supporting cast don't really matter as much. Once he makes it to even their level, THEN the supporting cast's issues stand out more.

But if we're saying his supporting cast sucks, and he's the worst player on the entire offense regardless of who's out there, then you may as well say Allen sucks too considering they're not the problem atm.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No. Nobody aside from maybe Deshone Kizer has looked as bad as Peterman did this year. Peterman is measurably the worst QB to get this many chances this millennium.

 

He is the worst Quarterback I have ever seen start in the NFL for any team and I have been watching since 2002 and watching pretty comprehensively across the whole league since 2008. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

good analysis of this play (and Allen’s struggle reading a defense) by Erik Turner (Cover 1). 

 

I think I said in the gameday thread "that is so, so bad" in reference to that play. It was horrible. 

 

My point again about the people who are already blaming Daboll for everything - look what he is working with. That right there is as simple and standard an NFL concept as you get and yet he has a Quarterback who can't execute. Not many plays in the playbook you can call for an offense with no playmakers outside, a rookie Quarterback who still has no idea what he is looking at and a line that is poor at blocking. 

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Your fricken delusional

 

What about the way he describes the handling of the Quarterback position is wrong John? 

 

They have started Nathan Peterman over better Quarterbacks than him twice. They signed a vet in FA who they traded before the season started and they took the consensus most raw of the top 4 prospects in the draft. 

 

Their approach has been at the very least "high risk". 

Edited October 12, 2018 by GunnerBill

[oldmanfan]

5 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

? I knew Tyrod was traded.   Traded or cut its the same difference.   He wasn't coming back, that's the bottom line. Whether the found a trade partner or not, Tyrod was not wearing a Bills jersey this year, and if you believe that, you're delusional. 

 

What I'm stating is absolutely fact.   Look at the timeline of mistakes!   Look how they back tracked to fix the mistakes.  It doesn't take a godamn rocket scientist to see what happened! It simply takes someone who isn't drinking kool-aid, and is looking at the facts objectively.

Trade or cut its's the same difference.

 

You can't make this stuff up, folks.

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

In the 90's maybe. You shouldn't have a chance at winning a game with 12 points now. You're making the field position argument, some are for it. I don't believe it. I think the upper half of the league has a chance to march down the field and score, regardless of where they start.

 

So he's behind Darnold who spent most of the off season working with the 1's. Both of the QB's we had working with the 1's most of this team should be off the roster within in the next few weeks. Would you put that on McDermott?

 

The way you phrase that sounds like an excuse for Allen and the team, when maybe it shouldn't. Not trying to put words in your mouth, I could be taking it out of context.

In my view I would put it on both McDermott and Beane. There were options in FA to bring in a QB that was able to hold it down if they wanted Allen to sit if that was the plan. If they planned on him playing this year he should have been given 1st team reps and gotten him more experience.

 

Not meant to be an excuse for anyone at all. We knew, draft experts knew and even the Bills knew that of all the QBs coming out (aside from Jackson) Allen would need the most support and time. He hasn't gotten that yet in my opinion. Next year should tell a new story.

[CountDorkula]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:01 AM, no name said:

 

who's watching mahomes?

 

those drooling over him. like you?

 

 

 

 

Football fans around the globe?

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Trade or cut its's the same difference.

 

You can't make this stuff up, folks.

Was Tyrod going to be cut before his bonus if Buffalo hadn't found a trade partner? 

 

Yes

 

They simply found someone to give them a return where they otherwise would have gotten nothing. 

 

Tyrod was good as gone this year. End of story. 

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Was Tyrod going to be cut before his bonus if Buffalo hadn't found a trade partner? 

 

Yes

 

They simply found someone to give them a return where they otherwise would have gotten nothing. 

 

Tyrod was good as gone this year. End of story. 

Difference = Draft pick

[The Frankish Reich]

And on Sunday, we just might see Josh Allen 2018 vs. the Josh Allen of 2012:

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/harris-we-might-see-weeden-against-allen-week

 

I hope this isn't how it works out for Allen, but there are similarities ...

[BillsFan4]

13 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That was hideous. 

It’s scary, to be perfectly honest. 

 

I’m trying hard to keep the faith.... 

 

It'll sure help if I see some improvements in this area as the season goes on.

I really want to believe that he can improve at reading defenses and finding open receivers, but it’s hard to when he just hasn’t shown much of any ability to do it so far in his college and NFL career. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I haven’t given up on him by any means. But he has yet to ease any of the fears I had when we drafted him. 

[thebandit27]

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And on Sunday, we just might see Josh Allen 2018 vs. the Josh Allen of 2012:

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/harris-we-might-see-weeden-against-allen-week

 

I hope this isn't how it works out for Allen, but there are similarities ...

 

Josh Allen was drafted as a 29-year old who started 2 full years at Oklahoma State? News to me.

[KD in CA]

On 10/9/2018 at 7:46 AM, Doc said:

 

Definitely.  Not sure why we waited for 4 starts.

 

Such patience is rarely offered by Bills fans.

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

It’s scary, to be perfectly honest. 

 

I’m trying hard to keep the faith.... 

 

It'll sure help if I see some improvements in this area as the season goes on.

I really want to believe that he can improve at reading defenses and finding open receivers, but it’s hard to when he just hasn’t shown much of any ability to do it so far in his college and NFL career. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I haven’t given up on him by any means. But he has yet to ease any of the fears I had when we drafted him. 

 

Hopefully the diagnosis and recognition skills improve and speed up as he gains experience.