26CornerBlitz Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 The Buffalo Bills got back to the win column on Sunday, defeating the Tennessee Titans 13-12 at home. The defense certainly looked the part, but where does this offense go moving forward, and how should they approach the game plan for Josh Allen past this week? Joe Buscaglia and Matthew Fairburn discuss the entire game and dive into the deeper issues surrounding the Bills offense at the present moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? Maybe somebody sold their soul or maybe a blood sacrifice? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Podcast. I don’t put much into what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 46 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? I'm going to guess that it will hurt us in the draft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Fairburn and Joe B are knowledgeable guys but this podcast usually puts me to sleep. Edited October 8, 2018 by Klaista2k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 At no cost. Bills are doing the best they can with the weapons they have. Do they really expect Allen to throw all day?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? In listening to the podcast, my take is that the "cost" they are referring to is limiting the development of Allen. Their argument is that, because of decisions made by the FO, they have put themselves in the position of having to start Allen on a very bad offensive team. However, the team's desire to stay competitive is now coming at he expense of Allen's development. They believed the offensive game plan, at least against the Titans, was as much about limiting the potential for mistakes from Allen as it was about running the football. Even given the lack of talent at the WR position and Allen's inexperience as a rookie, he needs to throw more than 9-10 times (mostly short passes with an emphasis on not turning the ball over) in a half in order to develop. IMO, they are saying If the offensive game plan going forward is the same as the Titans game, then it comes at the cost of limiting Allen's development and ending up with a less accurate version of Tyrod Taylor. That is my take. I don't necessarily disagree. I like Allen and I think he has been placed in a very difficult position. His play has been what I expected, as a rookie and given the lack of offensive talent around him - and no worse than the play of Darnold and Rosen, to this point. I don't think the desire to stay competitive and the desire to develop a young QB are necessarily mutually exclusive, if you can find innovative ways to use him given his lack of experience and lack of offensive talent. However, if their answer to how to stay competitive is to just limit his number and types of throws simply to avoid mistakes, then they are limiting his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Process Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 No cost.....they have to talk about something....even if it's nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 What is "the cost" of limiting the game plan and decisions he needs to make until he has the experience and knowledge needs to go full throttle? Not sure I can see that as a negative thing, it's done with just about all rookies, or first hire employees in any business. The expectation is, in time, they'll be the ones teaching the new hire. If the game plan looks the same two years for now, then we probably have a problem. For now, the job of the coaches--the boss--is to put him in a position to be successful with what he has and to learn as he goes. Job accomplished yesterday! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Gotta agree to an extent. He's already a limited passer and running the ball and throwing screens 90% of the time isn't exactly helping improve his passing skills or establish rhythm. But I do like winning ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I'm going to guess that it will hurt us in the draft. This ridiculousness never ends. I just can`t see how winning 8 to 10 games sets this team back. They are young and when your young you need to win or you become Cleveland 4 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: At no cost. Bills are doing the best they can with the weapons they have. Do they really expect Allen to throw all day?? To these recievers......did you see that great catch by Andre Holmes......Cornfed hits him in the hands and its an Int These recievers are killing his development 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Dumb take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: Dumb take. It is. This team is exactly what it looked like it would be. The Bills had very limited off-season resources because of the dead cap issues. What resources they had they spent on defense. Then their two best O-Line players retire. No money to replace them. So the team has a good defense and an atrocious offense. Allen is doing fairly well under bad circumstances. But he is not getting pounded into the ground so far, so hopefully he avoids the Trent Edwards fiasco. He has shown better mobility than I expected, has a great positive attitude, and is smart. And his arm is one of the best I have ever seen. I like the idea of Anderson coming in to help coach him up. The Bills never were going to win an SB this year. Frankly 2-3 with this schedule is as good as I could hope for. If they get to 3-4, that would be great. So long as they can avoid Allen getting killed either mentally or physically, developing him in a nothing to lose thrown into the fire season will pay dividends long term, as this kid has the make up to survive this year. And if he does, lots of resources for next season to fix the line, add a real #1 receiver, and a good CB to pair with White outside. It's clear what the plan is. Losing Wood and Incognito really through this year into turmoil, and the receivers were always a problem-- although I am liking Jones a whole lot more. Next year this team could be bona fide good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: In listening to the podcast, my take is that the "cost" they are referring to is limiting the development of Allen. Their argument is that, because of decisions made by the FO, they have put themselves in the position of having to start Allen on a very bad offensive team. However, the team's desire to stay competitive is now coming at he expense of Allen's development. They believed the offensive game plan, at least against the Titans, was as much about limiting the potential for mistakes from Allen as it was about running the football. Even given the lack of talent at the WR position and Allen's inexperience as a rookie, he needs to throw more than 9-10 times (mostly short passes with an emphasis on not turning the ball over) in a half in order to develop. IMO, they are saying If the offensive game plan going forward is the same as the Titans game, then it comes at the cost of limiting Allen's development and ending up with a less accurate version of Tyrod Taylor. That is my take. I don't necessarily disagree. I like Allen and I think he has been placed in a very difficult position. His play has been what I expected, as a rookie and given the lack of offensive talent around him - and no worse than the play of Darnold and Rosen, to this point. I don't think the desire to stay competitive and the desire to develop a young QB are necessarily mutually exclusive, if you can find innovative ways to use him given his lack of experience and lack of offensive talent. However, if their answer to how to stay competitive is to just limit his number and types of throws simply to avoid mistakes, then they are limiting his development. If this is what he said, I get it, because I was upset with the playcalling. But my problem with the playcalling wasn't because of development. It was because I thought it was frighteningly predictable. My PTSD of Dennison's predictability kicked in. Luckily, Ivory is SooOOooo much better than Tolbert. But that doesn't mean Daboll can't have Allen throwing, too. What happened to the RPOs? Where are the screens? Where are the quick slants? You can protect Allen while still developing him and allowing him to throw. I just hope Anderson ends up being a good mentor to Allen. It's another Carolina connection, obviously, but I think he served Newton well as a backup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? If you listen to the podcast, I think you’ll see that Joe and Matt make a very good point. You might argue it’s a bit premature, which they admitted themselves, but their point or solid. The “cost” is the development of Allen. The game plan this week clearly minimized Allen’s role as a passer in the offense. Their argument is that the Bills need to let Allen lead the offense even if it means making mistakes and holding the team back. Why trade a few wins in the short term, if it restricts the development of their future QB? 31 minutes ago, Casey D said: It is. This team is exactly what it looked like it would be. The Bills had very limited off-season resources because of the dead cap issues. What resources they had they spent on defense. Then their two best O-Line players retire. No money to replace them. So the team has a good defense and an atrocious offense. Allen is doing fairly well under bad circumstances. But he is not getting pounded into the ground so far, so hopefully he avoids the Trent Edwards fiasco. He has shown better mobility than I expected, has a great positive attitude, and is smart. And his arm is one of the best I have ever seen. I like the idea of Anderson coming in to help coach him up. The Bills never were going to win an SB this year. Frankly 2-3 with this schedule is as good as I could hope for. If they get to 3-4, that would be great. So long as they can avoid Allen getting killed either mentally or physically, developing him in a nothing to lose thrown into the fire season will pay dividends long term, as this kid has the make up to survive this year. And if he does, lots of resources for next season to fix the line, add a real #1 receiver, and a good CB to pair with White outside. It's clear what the plan is. Losing Wood and Incognito really through this year into turmoil, and the receivers were always a problem-- although I am liking Jones a whole lot more. Next year this team could be bona fide good. I can tell you didn’t listen to the podcast because they argued that 2018 is all about Allen’s development. By the Bills protecting Allen like they did yesterday, it’s not giving him a chance to develop which could be dangerous long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Those are good points. I listened to it, and I agree. The Bills should not be a team trying to win with smash-mouth football, limiting mistakes, and getting McCoy 20 carries a game. If it is, why did we draft Josh Allen and get rid of TT? Let Josh Allen be Josh Alen. Let him loose. When I hear Allen say at a press conference that the coaches told him we were going to put the game on the freakin' offensive line?? THIS offensive line? Really? How does that affect Allen's confidence - or, what he feels is his coaches' confidence in him? Let the wild horse run free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Domdab99 said: Those are good points. I listened to it, and I agree. The Bills should not be a team trying to win with smash-mouth football, limiting mistakes, and getting McCoy 20 carries a game. If it is, why did we draft Josh Allen and get rid of TT? Let Josh Allen be Josh Alen. Let him loose. When I hear Allen say at a press conference that the coaches told him we were going to put the game on the freakin' offensive line?? THIS offensive line? Really? How does that affect Allen's confidence - or, what he feels is his coaches' confidence in him? Let the wild horse run free. Who won the game yesterday? Buffalo. What QBs get confidence when their team wins? Pretty much all of them. Put it on the O line and have them respond? A good thing unless you're a Bills fan. Only in Bills country does a team win a football game and the response is "But at what cost?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Who won the game yesterday? Buffalo. What QBs get confidence when their team wins? Pretty much all of them. Put it on the O line and have them respond? A good thing unless you're a Bills fan. Only in Bills country does a team win a football game and the response is "But at what cost?" Only in Bills country are fans this !@#$ing clueless about what's good for the team, the new QB, and the long run. Can't believe you'd want to trade wins this season for Josh Allen's development. If that Titan's receiver doesn't drop a gift TD, the Bills lose that game, and the pitchforks would be out over how pathetic the offense was. Especially poorly Josh Allen played. And you really think Josh Allen got a lot of confidence when his offensive coordinator tells him, "We're putting the game on the offensive line. Run the ball"?? Know what would give him confidence? "Go sling it. We live or die by what you do. And we'll take the result, either way." This is how bad Josh Allen was: his QB rating was around a 42. Our punter, who thought he was doing a fake FG when no one else did, had a QB rating of around 39. This is not giving Allen confidence. Edited October 8, 2018 by Domdab99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Only in Bills country are fans this !@#$ing clueless about what's good for the team, the new QB, and the long run. Can't believe you'd want to trade wins this season for Josh Allen's development. If that Titan's receiver doesn't drop a gift TD, the Bills lose that game, and the pitchforks would be out over how pathetic the offense was. Especially poorly Josh Allen played. And you really think Josh Allen got a lot of confidence when his offensive coordinator tells him, "We're putting the game on the offensive line. Run the ball"?? Know what would give him confidence? "Go sling it. We live or die by what you do. And we'll take the result, either way." They are not mutually exclusive. Get that through your skull. Having him throw 50 times a game isn't developing him, it's more likely to get him killed. Allen develops every game. Yesterday he developed. When he threw he was more decisive with his reads. Knew where he was going with the ball more. Threw it away more quickly when he knew there was nothing there. Didn't get sacked because he either got the ball out or knew better when to take off. didn't do those backward spin moves like he did against the Pack. Made some very good throws. Honest to God, some folks I swear have never watched football before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Lol you have no clue what you’re talking about if you think Allen did anything well yesterday. He was bad. Indecisive. Inaccurate. He had a nice run for a TD. Yay. two straight games now where he has played quite poorly, and the game plan is not helping him. but yeah, bringing in Derek Anderson, that’ll help him. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: They believed the offensive game plan, at least against the Titans, was as much about limiting the potential for mistakes from Allen as it was about running the football. Even given the lack of talent at the WR position and Allen's inexperience as a rookie, he needs to throw more than 9-10 times (mostly short passes with an emphasis on not turning the ball over) in a half in order to develop. On the flip side, others suggest he could have benefited from sitting behind a seasoned vet for a year or two, like Mahomes learning by watching Smith, in which case he'd have zero throws in a game. Getting Josh on the field, albeit with a limited passing attack, gives him some experience without totally throwing him to the wolves. It's a happy medium. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 its difficult to complete passes downfield when your wide receivers cant get separation; and compounding the WR’s deficiencies with a poor Oline and you have a recipe for disaster in the passing game. I feel bad for Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, WhoTom said: On the flip side, others suggest he could have benefited from sitting behind a seasoned vet for a year or two, like Mahomes learning by watching Smith, in which case he'd have zero throws in a game. Getting Josh on the field, albeit with a limited passing attack, gives him some experience without totally throwing him to the wolves. It's a happy medium. I can see this. I’m just against the “we’re taking the ball out of your hands because we don’t trust you to win the game” mindset. That can not have felt good. I’m sure the win helped, tho. 16 minutes ago, bobobonators said: its difficult to complete passes downfield when your wide receivers cant get separation; and compounding the WR’s deficiencies with a poor Oline and you have a recipe for disaster in the passing game. I feel bad for Allen. Hey, don’t get me wrong, I love Josh and think he has a chance to be the Guy for the Bills. But one thing we know about him, is that he’s resilient...all those bad Wyoming games and then he comes out and lights it up in the next one. I want to see that here. Give him the reigns. but yes, he has no supporting cast, I agree. But put that in the receivers, then, if they can’t catch the ball :cough Andre Holmes cough: I just dont want Dabol and McD to turn him into a game manager this season in the hopes of winning 7 or 8 games. Might as well have kept Tyrol then. I want Josh to fling it. And learn from THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 If I am Daboll and McDermott I hope to call the offense like this every Sunday. It won't always be the case because we won't be leading the entire game like this one but I would try to make plays simple for Allen to read and rely on the ground game. Take your risks when you have the chance on the opponents side of the 50 on 4th down. Let your defense create turnovers which we know they are capable of doing whether it is Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers or Marriota. Best call and play of the game for the offense was the first down completion to McCloud to ice the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 41 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Lol you have no clue what you’re talking about if you think Allen did anything well yesterday. He was bad. Indecisive. Inaccurate. He had a nice run for a TD. Yay. two straight games now where he has played quite poorly, and the game plan is not helping him. but yeah, bringing in Derek Anderson, that’ll help him. ? Open your eyes next week when you're watching the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Winning is better than losing it was the kind of game where I thought a last quarter drive would beat them, but the guy dropped the ball I think I’ve sat at 50 games where the home Bills/Lions/Browns lost on one late TD drive by the visiting team, after a muddle where nobody shone through 3 quarters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Open your eyes next week when you're watching the game. I bet you were one of the guys who said, “it worked, so it was the right decision” after McD punted in OT vs. the Colts, aren’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? Well, obviously the Titans’ loss hurts our strength of schedule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: I bet you were one of the guys who said, “it worked, so it was the right decision” after McD punted in OT vs. the Colts, aren’t you? Yes. Because the Colts had done squat all game and they knew they'd get the ball back. Did they win that game or lose it? Remind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey D Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, GreatComeback said: If you listen to the podcast, I think you’ll see that Joe and Matt make a very good point. You might argue it’s a bit premature, which they admitted themselves, but their point or solid. The “cost” is the development of Allen. The game plan this week clearly minimized Allen’s role as a passer in the offense. Their argument is that the Bills need to let Allen lead the offense even if it means making mistakes and holding the team back. Why trade a few wins in the short term, if it restricts the development of their future QB? I can tell you didn’t listen to the podcast because they argued that 2018 is all about Allen’s development. By the Bills protecting Allen like they did yesterday, it’s not giving him a chance to develop which could be dangerous long term I understand, but I think that is just silly. Having him throw 40 times every games and getting pounded into the ground often is not the only way to develop him. Baby steps. Keep him upright. Win some games. He learns just by being out there. Winning builds confidence. Better than holding a clipboard, which would have been optimal but we have no other viable QB. Edited October 8, 2018 by Casey D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The Buffalo Bills got back to the win column on Sunday, defeating the Tennessee Titans 13-12 at home. The defense certainly looked the part, but where does this offense go moving forward, and how should they approach the game plan for Josh Allen past this week? Joe Buscaglia and Matthew Fairburn discuss the entire game and dive into the deeper issues surrounding the Bills offense at the present moment. So Allen should throw a ton more even if it means sacrificing winning? That's what I got out of that. Winning helps everything, this nonsense that he has to throw it a zillion times , have 400 yard games is just dumb, how is that working for one of the best in Andrew Luck? He took the team down the field when he needed to and won the game for us, that does more for his progression than throwing for 330 yards 2 TD, 2 INT and a big fat loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Only in Bills country are fans this !@#$ing clueless about what's good for the team, the new QB, and the long run. Can't believe you'd want to trade wins this season for Josh Allen's development. If that Titan's receiver doesn't drop a gift TD, the Bills lose that game, and the pitchforks would be out over how pathetic the offense was. Especially poorly Josh Allen played. And you really think Josh Allen got a lot of confidence when his offensive coordinator tells him, "We're putting the game on the offensive line. Run the ball"?? Know what would give him confidence? "Go sling it. We live or die by what you do. And we'll take the result, either way." This is how bad Josh Allen was: his QB rating was around a 42. Our punter, who thought he was doing a fake FG when no one else did, had a QB rating of around 39. This is not giving Allen confidence. I believe you are 100% wrong. I see a rookie QB who is willing do anything to win. On the last drive he was ready to win, was cool in the pocket and the team clearly believes in him. Allen is full of confidence and he looks like he cannot wait until next Sunday. That has a lot to do with Allen's personality, but it's also because of very good coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Yes. Because the Colts had done squat all game and they knew they'd get the ball back. Did they win that game or lose it? Remind me. You're what we call in poker parlance, a “first-level thinker.” And you will never get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Is that a serious question?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, row_33 said: Winning is better than losing it was the kind of game where I thought a last quarter drive would beat them, but the guy dropped the ball I think I’ve sat at 50 games where the home Bills/Lions/Browns lost on one late TD drive by the visiting team, after a muddle where nobody shone through 3 quarters These are exactly the kind of games we lost in the Jauron/Gailey/Marrone/Rex years. Figure out new ways to lose. I'm really glad to see the guys learn to not blow these games like past Bills teams did. Last year it was the Tampa Bay and Snow Bowl they won instead of figuring out a way to lose. It build confidence in the players that they can win as opposed to looking for the other shoe to drop. Go Bills !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 15 hours ago, Domdab99 said: What’s he mean, “at what cost?” Who got hurt? Stupid media going for the hot take headline. As you point out there was no “cost” to this win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Max Fischer said: I believe you are 100% wrong. I see a rookie QB who is willing do anything to win. On the last drive he was ready to win, was cool in the pocket and the team clearly believes in him. Allen is full of confidence and he looks like he cannot wait until next Sunday. That has a lot to do with Allen's personality, but it's also because of very good coaching. I actually agree with you on this some....Allen is amazingly confident, and maybe he's just happy to win. But I'm sure it also bothered him a little bit that the game wasn't put on his shoulders - like you would expect every QB in the league to do. But yes, he's incredibly poised and I love that about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Domdab99 said: You're what we call in poker parlance, a “first-level thinker.” And you will never get it. I'm a bottom line guy. And I win a lot at poker. You would rather your team lose so you can watch the young QB get killed. That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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