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Richie is badly missed!


PUNT750

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12 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

Without Incognito the Bills OL has no push and no nastiness.  Dawkins has regressed without Richie next door and Groy, who replaced Wood last season due to injury, can't even start anymore.  All over about $3.5 mil in yearly cash earnings for a 3 time All-Pro who started all 49 games in that time period for the Bills.  He was a physical & emotional leader. 

No wonder Richie has had some freak-out sessions after his forced retirement!  Crazy for the Bills and him!

 

 

I don't miss him even a little.. Hope he is getting the medical help he needs.

 

The Bills did not shaft him and no Richie did not deserve better treatment unless we are talking medical then yes he needs better treatment

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52 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

We haven’t had a new Incognito thread in a week.  

 

Why do some people here refuse to acknowledge the man is very sick and should not be playing?  Just look at his behavior from the Jachsonvillle game and all off season.  

 

CTE is a bad thing.  

 

It was obviously the pay cut that made him go bat sh*t crazy the past several months.  He'd have been fine, if not for the bullying by the Bills organization! ?

 

?

 

 

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18 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

Without Incognito the Bills OL has no push and no nastiness.  Dawkins has regressed without Richie next door and Groy, who replaced Wood last season due to injury, can't even start anymore.  All over about $3.5 mil in yearly cash earnings for a 3 time All-Pro who started all 49 games in that time period for the Bills.  He was a physical & emotional leader. 

No wonder Richie has had some freak-out sessions after his forced retirement!  Crazy for the Bills and him!

 

Richie was culture?

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20 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Did EJ play at a Pro-Bowl level for 3 years? I don't understand the comparison.

 

 

The comparison is based on the fact that loyalty should in no way be based on how well you play. It's based on how long you've been there and whether you gave everything you could and whether you yourself have been loyal. 

 

Are you loyal to your friends only if they've been successful in life?

 

Were the Chargers loyal to Drew Brees when he was injured even though he's performed extremely well for them? Were the Skins loyal to Kirk Cousins when he wildly overperformed as a 4th rounder? How many thousand other examples could anyone with the slightest bit of interest find?

 

Loyalty exists in pro football, but it's only expected within certain bounds. Teams aren't expected to be loyal to guys who - like Richie - can no longer produce. Were the Bills loyal to Peerless Price, who had produced extremely well for them? A history of production means squat. Teams trade productive players if they think they can do better, and they cut productive guys if they're going to be too expensive to keep.

 

Loyalty in football is honored in the breach. It's a lovely idea. People go on about it. And between the players and coach within one season, it means something. But in terms of personnel decisions and salary negotiations and holding out and all the rest of it ... when it counts, in other words ... it means nothing. And everyone knows it.

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On 10/3/2018 at 11:43 AM, Sky Diver said:

 

What was compassionate about the way the Bills treated Richie and where did you get the impression that I supported blind loyalty? Loyalty is a two way street.

 

I know exactly what the Bills did and I think it was wrong.

 

Business doesn’t have to be cold blooded. In fact,  being cold blooded is probably bad business. The   Bears certainly don’t appear to be a cold blooded organization.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/04/chicago-bears-tight-end-zach-miller-contract-injury/amp/

 

Not sure what this discussion has to do with the Crimson Tide. This is the wrong forum to discuss college football.

 

 

Oh, yeah, the Bears are way way warm-blooded and gooey where personnel moves are concerned. They make loyalty their #1 concern.

 

That's why they handled the Matt Forte situation the way they did. They honored a guy who was the face of the franchise, a guy who left his blood and guts on the field every week, a pillar of the Bears by deciding not to try to re-sign him. You could see their loyalty very very clearly from the statement when they announced they were not going to re-sign him they said, " "Matt is one of the all-time great Bears and did an excellent job for us on and off the field last season." 

 

That's loyalty. Just about makes me cry, that powerful commitment to doing right by Forte.

 

Your argument isn't just not winnable, it's plain stupid. Sure, if the cost of loyalty is minimal, then yeah, teams will be loyal. They'll bring back a Thurman or a Freddie Jackson for a symbolic one-day contract. Or the Bears might do what they did in your link, pay Miller $458K when they have $10 mill in salary cap space and at the same time keep his rights in case he actually recovers. Sure, small gestures? Yeah, if it doesn't hurt the team. What they did was not unclassy. But it also wasn't a big enough gesture to affect the team much at all.

 

 

20 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

He was a bargain for his three years of All-Pro play. It would have been fair and reasonable to reward him by maintaining his salary.

 

$3.5M is chump change. We wasted that on Coleman.

 

Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

 

Nonsense. $3.5 mill isn't chump change to this team. It's almost half of what we have left under the cap to sign injury replacements. 

 

Did the Bears sign Zach Miller for $3.5 mill? Or was it about a tenth of that, about a twentieth of their cap room? And Miller was hurt playing for the Bears whereas whatever issues Richie has, the Bills have no measurable responsibility for.

 

If we paid $3.5 mill a year to do nothing to everybody who had been a cap bargain for us, we'd be a laughingstock. And continue our Whaley-led recent history of cap irresponsibility.

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2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, yeah, the Bears are way way warm-blooded and gooey where personnel moves are concerned. They make loyalty their #1 concern.

 

That's why they handled the Matt Forte situation the way they did. They honored a guy who was the face of the franchise, a guy who left his blood and guts on the field every week, a pillar of the Bears by deciding not to try to re-sign him. You could see their loyalty very very clearly from the statement when they announced they were not going to re-sign him they said, " "Matt is one of the all-time great Bears and did an excellent job for us on and off the field last season." 

 

That's loyalty. Just about makes me cry, that powerful commitment to doing right by Forte.

 

Your argument isn't just not winnable, it's plain stupid. Sure, if the cost of loyalty is minimal, then yeah, teams will be loyal. They'll bring back a Thurman or a Freddie Jackson for a symbolic one-day contract. Or the Bears might do what they did in your link, pay Miller $458K when they have $10 mill in salary cap space and at the same time keep his rights in case he actually recovers. Sure, small gestures? Yeah, if it doesn't hurt the team. What they did was not unclassy. But it also wasn't a big enough gesture to affect the team much at all.

 

 

 

 

Nonsense. $3.5 mill isn't chump change to this team. It's almost half of what we have left under the cap to sign injury replacements. 

 

Did the Bears sign Zach Miller for $3.5 mill? Or was it about a tenth of that, about a twentieth of their cap room? And Miller was hurt playing for the Bears whereas whatever issues Richie has, the Bills have no measurable responsibility for.

 

If we paid $3.5 mill a year to do nothing to everybody who had been a cap bargain for us, we'd be a laughingstock. And continue our Whaley-led recent history of cap irresponsibility.

 

Richie played 3 yrs at an All-Pro level for a bargain price. He was still capable of playing at a high level. The Bills shouldn’t have asked him to take a huge paycut. 

 

$3.5M on the roll of the dice with Coleman was stupid. I’d rather have seen that money go to Richie as a reward for his service.

 

I believe that if we don’t cut his salary he’s would still be on the team and we would be far better off.

 

I don’t see any connection here with Forte.

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57 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Richie played 3 yrs at an All-Pro level for a bargain price. He was still capable of playing at a high level. The Bills shouldn’t have asked him to take a huge paycut. 

 

$3.5M on the roll of the dice with Coleman was stupid. I’d rather have seen that money go to Richie as a reward for his service.

 

I believe that if we don’t cut his salary he’s would still be on the team and we would be far better off.

 

I don’t see any connection here with Forte.

 

are You watching how the NFL is squeezing out good players over new contracts?

 

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On 10/2/2018 at 7:32 PM, DCBongo said:

I always like Richie and loved it when the Bills brought he back.  He was doing funny videos for them last year.  But this year something snapped and I don't care he is not playing football.  I want him to get professional help and move on to what could be a good TV career.  I wish the guys we had could play with some attitude... without the crazy.

 

So I’m spending probably way too much time watching all-22 and here’s the crazy thing.  There are running plays - every game - where we make it work.  Not big killer plays, but steady diet 7, 4, 5 yds, move the chains.  It isn’t “Incognito’s House of Pancakes” but we win or draw every battle.  We could move the chains and push down the field.  We have pass plays where Allen has time.

 

We also have running plays where I’m pleading with people who know more to tell me WTF is that supposed to be because it’s so AFU I can’t even tell what the blocking was supposed to look like if it worked, and pass plays where either some of our guys get beaten like drums or the protection is obviously screwed (how do you miss blocking TWO linebackers up the middle?)

 

So it’s not just that we’re incapable of doing it.  Sometimes we do it!  But it’s not consistent.  And in my opinion, a lot of it is coaching.  How about, don’t expect Mills to block Clay Matthews 1:1?  He can’t do it.  Whatever it takes - agility, speed, technique - he ain’t got it.  So don’t ask him to.  If that’s where Matthews lines up, change the protections and get that guy some help.  (It’s not as if every GB LB is a terror, most of the others Lee can handle).  If cut blocks leave our guys sprawling on the ground with defenders hurdling them 8 of 10 times, stop asking them to cut block.  And so forth.

 

That’s really what preseason is supposed to be for - figure out what your guys can actually do, and then ask them to do that and not to do stuff they can’t.  Put them in positions to succeed.

 

For whatever reason, it’s like the last 4 games have been preseason, figuring out what our guys can actually do, and often putting them in positions where they’re asked to do things they can’t.

 

IMO part of Richie’s outburst was he wasn’t that thrilled playing for Castillo - rumor has it Juan is good for developing rookies, but that he expects veterans to remodel their technique and do it his way Or Else, and he wants them to do stuff that’s hard on the body like cut block.  I think Richie expected him to be gone and someone more Kromer-like brought in when Dennison got the axe.  Well, I did too.

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41 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

That’s not very good for fans. The NFL is destroying itself.

 

What is the goal of the league and owners?

 

i believe it is maximizing the value of every franchise

 

QBs are the only players who are unique and helpful to winning, RBs are a dime a dozen but used to be vital

 

owners have wisened up to stop handing out huge contracts that rarely pan out, Stafford was a last straw.

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44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Because agents backstab their clients to zero compensation (for the agent)?  

 

Give me a Break.

 

Yes, the bridge is burnt

Not to mention after this so called backstabbing he still had to sign the contract ( maybe the agent had him at gun point) I mean he did backstab him why stop there

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On 10/2/2018 at 8:21 PM, PUNT750 said:

Without Incognito the Bills OL has no push and no nastiness.  Dawkins has regressed without Richie next door and Groy, who replaced Wood last season due to injury, can't even start anymore.  All over about $3.5 mil in yearly cash earnings for a 3 time All-Pro who started all 49 games in that time period for the Bills.  He was a physical & emotional leader. 

No wonder Richie has had some freak-out sessions after his forced retirement!  Crazy for the Bills and him!

 

 

Oh boo hoo hoo. The dude made his choices. He didn't have to sign off on that pay-cut, but he did, then two weeks later he got a wild hair up his ass and fired his agents and decided he didn't want the pay cut so he asked for his release and was granted it.

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44 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Oh boo hoo hoo. The dude made his choices. He didn't have to sign off on that pay-cut, but he did, then two weeks later he got a wild hair up his ass and fired his agents and decided he didn't want the pay cut so he asked for his release and was granted it.

 

We would be watching a better product if Richie was on the field. Boo boo for us.

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2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

We would be watching a better product if Richie was on the field. Boo boo for us.

or richie would have gone off the deep end which he does every so often, and the bills would be paying for it.  richie is a sick guy.  i know you think it's the bills fault, but his history shows and ebb and tide to his health.  

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On 10/2/2018 at 8:39 PM, BillsRdue said:

I do think the whole thing sucks and the Bills were cheap-ass losers in this deal. We should have not tried to make him take a payout. 

He could have just said no and that would have been the end of it. Why can't people understand that. The bills didn't put a gun to his head and make him sign a new contract. Richie happily signed the new deal then went nuts a few days later.

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On 10/3/2018 at 9:09 AM, Peter said:

Although there is no way to know 100%, I believe that Richie would have been just fine and performing at the same level as last year if McBeane did not initiate a pay cut. While on the team, Richie was a good citizen, teammate, and excellent player (pro bowl).  The structure of the team really helped him.  

 

There was little reason to initiate a pay cut with Richie.  The line (especially Dawkins), our QB, and Shady have suffered as a result of this and other decisions.   It would have been nice to give our rookie QB a better offensive line - especially given how raw he is and how many assets we gave up to get him.  I dare say that Josh and Shady would be much better off with an offensive line that included Cordy and Richie.  

 

Just my two cents.

Excellent player, yes!  Good citizen and teammate, it seemed so but we're there warning signs that were starting to show up?  Could little things have started to show up that might have factored into asking him to take a pay cut?  Did Richie just suddenly snap over the course of a few weeks of contract negotiations?  It has to make you wonder.  I don't know but it is possible.  

 

Just my two cents.

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54 minutes ago, teef said:

or richie would have gone off the deep end which he does every so often, and the bills would be paying for it.  richie is a sick guy.  i know you think it's the bills fault, but his history shows and ebb and tide to his health.  

 

He was okay three years ago when they signed him? If the Bills thought something was amiss, why didn’t they cut him?

 

There is a risk with any player due to injury or mental breakdown. Who would have suspected Zay Jones?

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1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

He was okay three years ago when they signed him? If the Bills thought something was amiss, why didn’t they cut him?

 

There is a risk with any player due to injury or mental breakdown. Who would have suspected Zay Jones?

sure. he may have been stable at this point.  maybe he started acting strange over the last season, and the bills made a decision to keep him at a price they felt was worth it for him, and let richie make the decision, which he did, (i'm obviously speculating here).  who knows what really happened.  i just don't put anything richie does on the bills.  he's proven many, many times that his problems aren't bills related.

 

i think the zay jones thing has been over blown by fans, unless he's had a history of doing this.  he may have taken something strange and reacted.  as his luck would have it, he was recorded.  

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1 hour ago, teef said:

sure. he may have been stable at this point.  maybe he started acting strange over the last season, and the bills made a decision to keep him at a price they felt was worth it for him, and let richie make the decision, which he did, (i'm obviously speculating here).  who knows what really happened.  i just don't put anything richie does on the bills.  he's proven many, many times that his problems aren't bills related.

 

i think the zay jones thing has been over blown by fans, unless he's had a history of doing this.  he may have taken something strange and reacted.  as his luck would have it, he was recorded.  

 

I’m pretty sure there is a post season physical. If there were any issues, it should have come up then. If not, the Bills need to scrutinize their medical staff.

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2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

I’m pretty sure there is a post season physical. If there were any issues, it should have come up then. If not, the Bills need to scrutinize their medical staff.

i'm going to doubt that there's a psychological evaluation as part of any team physical.

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1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

It’s unreasonable that he was mentally deranged and the team doctors, staff, and other players didn’t detect it.

 

Not if he was taking prescribed medication, of which I'm pretty certain team doctors were aware of.  He didn't go batshit until after the season ended.

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4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

It’s unreasonable that he was mentally deranged and the team doctors, staff, and other players didn’t detect it.

mental illness doesn't necessarily work that way. the guy is sick, and on top of that, he's not the greatest person on earth.  there must have been something there for the bills to want to reduce his salary.  richie and his agent had every chance to say no and they didn't.  as off as richie is, he's not unintelligent.  he could have very well have said no and moved on.  it was his choice.  

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8 minutes ago, teef said:

mental illness doesn't necessarily work that way. the guy is sick, and on top of that, he's not the greatest person on earth.  there must have been something there for the bills to want to reduce his salary.  richie and his agent had every chance to say no and they didn't.  as off as richie is, he's not unintelligent.  he could have very well have said no and moved on.  it was his choice.  

 

I don’t think that the contract offer had anything to do with his mental state. A mentally deranged person isn’t a bargain at any price. They were just playing hardball with him.

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3 hours ago, teef said:

or richie would have gone off the deep end which he does every so often, and the bills would be paying for it.  richie is a sick guy.  i know you think it's the bills fault, but his history shows and ebb and tide to his health.  

Does he have a arrest record or is he just a hot headed party guy with a short fuse....I know he blocks very well,pro bowl like.

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On 10/2/2018 at 8:21 PM, PUNT750 said:

Without Incognito the Bills OL has no push and no nastiness.  Dawkins has regressed without Richie next door and Groy, who replaced Wood last season due to injury, can't even start anymore.  All over about $3.5 mil in yearly cash earnings for a 3 time All-Pro who started all 49 games in that time period for the Bills.  He was a physical & emotional leader. 

No wonder Richie has had some freak-out sessions after his forced retirement!  Crazy for the Bills and him!

 

You have no one to blame but yourself Mr Incognito. If you are longing for the 'Good ol Days', i have a Color Rush jersey of yours thats much to big you are welcome to if you wanna play 'football guys' in the bubble bath or something. Just HMU and its yours!!

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7 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

You have no one to blame but yourself Mr Incognito. If you are longing for the 'Good ol Days', i have a Color Rush jersey of yours thats much to big you are welcome to if you wanna play 'football guys' in the bubble bath or something. Just HMU and its yours!!

 

Too bad for fans. Our two guards are terrible.

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2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

He was okay three years ago when they signed him? If the Bills thought something was amiss, why didn’t they cut him?

 

There is a risk with any player due to injury or mental breakdown. Who would have suspected Zay Jones?

 

In 2015 the Bills flew Richie Incognito to Buffalo for talks.

It was reported and later confirmed that even the Pegulas were involved concerning RIs past.

A 1 year 1.1 million dollar "show me you have changed" contract was signed.

Richie praised the Bills for giving him another chance.  Richie played well.

 

The following season Richie signed a generous 3 year contract with Buffalo.

He kept his word to the Pegulas for 2 full seasons UNTIL the Jags Playoff game.

He was accused and later apologized for making "racial slurs" on the field.

The NFL was investigating the issue (it was in all the papers).

 

With Richie under investigation and breaking his promise to the Pegulas the Bills could of outright cut him.

Instead a "restructured" contract was agreed to by the Bills, his agent and signed by himself.

It was reported that Richie had some episodes in OBD and "bad mouthed" the organization and Pegulas.

He then "retired" due to illness.  Bills released him.

 

Please don't let any facts influence your rant.

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8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

In 2015 the Bills flew Richie Incognito to Buffalo for talks.

It was reported and later confirmed that even the Pegulas were involved concerning RIs past.

A 1 year 1.1 million dollar "show me you have changed" contract was signed.

Richie praised the Bills for giving him another chance.  Richie played well.

 

The following season Richie signed a generous 3 year contract with Buffalo.

He kept his word to the Pegulas for 2 full seasons UNTIL the Jags Playoff game.

He was accused and later apologized for making "racial slurs" on the field.

The NFL was investigating the issue (it was in all the papers).

 

With Richie under investigation and breaking his promise to the Pegulas the Bills could of outright cut him.

Instead a "restructured" contract was agreed to by the Bills, his agent and signed by himself.

It was reported that Richie had some episodes in OBD and "bad mouthed" the organization and Pegulas.

He then "retired" due to illness.  Bills released him.

 

Please don't let any facts influence your rant.

 

Alleged racial slurs. What was the alleged punishment and where is the alleged apology?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/22/report-richie-incognito-wont-be-punished-for-alleged-racial-slurs/

 

He was unhappy with the contract and fired his agent. You conveniently left that out.

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7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Alleged racial slurs. What was the alleged punishment and where is the alleged apology?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/22/report-richie-incognito-wont-be-punished-for-alleged-racial-slurs/

 

He was unhappy with the contract and fired his agent. You conveniently left that out.

Once again don't let facts influence your rant.

 

His "firing" of his agent was the beginning of his breakdown.

As your link reports it was looking like he was not going to be punished by the NFL.

Then reports came out that he might.

 

Buffalo Bills guard Richie Incognito told TheMMQB.com that he apologized Wednesday to Jacksonville Jaguars defensive end Yannick Ngakoue after Ngakoue accused Incognito of using racial slurs in their Jan. 7 playoff game.

 

 

#NFL spokesman says league's investigation into Richie Incognito playoff-game exchange is "not done" and that the matter "remains under review."

7:59 PM - 22 Jan 2018
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