John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 i just find it interesting that everyone knows he needs a year....then he starts and ppl want to forget all that IT DID NOT CHANGE JUST BECAUSE HE IS STARTING....and you compound the fact that he has nothing around him which just makes it worse We cant run ball.....like AT ALL Our WR's drop balls AND cant get open Ppl need to relax.....this year is not about winning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Allen is tough and smart. He’ll survive this. Every cent of the extra cap money we get next year needs to go to the offense. This is the hard part - for him and us. Better days ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, teef said: i thought you just said he would never be able to this? And where in that response did I ever say he will be able to do anything I said in the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 He needs to think of it as a very interesting 15-20 minute mark of his A Football Life episode in twenty year's time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 52 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: This is TBD! I think you mean comparisons are "MUTE". If you think it is impossible to evaluate Allen, you're wrong. Receivers are open on most plays and he is not under duress every time he looks to throw the ball. On this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, Figster said: Everyone can agree the Offense as a unit has a long way to go. When you take into consideration very low reps going into the season between rookie QB J A and the starting unit. New system installation and the rookie himself experiencing Defensive looks and superior play from the opposition on a whole new level. Its all part of the learning curve IMO. The most important thing that can happen for the Buffalo Bills this season is the growth and health of Josh Allen in my humble opinion. Myself Personally, we will see improvement from Allen and the Buffalo Bills as time goes on. Growing pains... To me that is what this season is all about now.....that and the development of the young guys on our defense like edmunds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: And where in that response did I ever say he will be able to do anything I said in the post? in another post, this was your comment: "Josh Allen will never be good. Bills better use their high pick next year to take a real QB prospect." do you see how this is conflicting? you say he needs to get better, but that he'll never be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) He has had one great game where receivers dropped tons of balls and one really bad one. Give him more time, will ya all? If he only had awful games, that's one thing. So far he's made some great showings in the preseason and real games, and some deer-in-the-headlight ones. IMO he has shown enough promise, especially with that surrounding cast, for us to keep faith. Some flaws like doing too much, not reading blitzes well (which seem a TEAM issue as much as his), and a few more are most likely correctable damn fast. Rookie mistakes. Accuracy? He's been off 2 games, and on one. He seems to be the classical "rhythm passer", if in a groove can tear a defense apart, if not, is like a wild goose all over the place. And some of the routes miitakes and long throws misses, well when he knows his receivers better (and vice versa) things will improve. He barely played and practiced with the 1st stringers during preseason. Reading defenses and such, only time will tell if he picks things fast. He is GREEN. Has he shown enough to warrant continuing on even IF the Bills had another option? Damn right. Edit: and he seems tough mentally. That's crazy important for a rookie thrown in the fire with such a dire offensive cast Edited October 1, 2018 by Jerome007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, teef said: in another post, this was your comment: "Josh Allen will never be good. Bills better use their high pick next year to take a real QB prospect." do you see how this is conflicting? you say he needs to get better, but that he'll never be good. It's two of the same thing. Needing to get better is just a nicer way of saying you suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: It's two of the same thing. Needing to get better is just a nicer way of saying you suck. no...it's not. in one thread you state josh allen will never be good. in another, you say he needs work. maybe just not use absolutes in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: If.......in 1990........I had told you that the Bills should do something that the 1960 Bills did that helped them develop into a winner would you have found that applicable? Because 30 years is a LONG time in the NFL. The Cowboys INTENTIONALLY tanked to load up on talent. Because that USED to work. The last time a team parlayed the first pick into a long run of competitiveness was the 1998 Colts. All the consistently championship competitive teams in the 2000's have gotten there while rising from mediocrity. Whether you were trying to compare eras or not is irrelevant. You did and the Cowboys example just isn't applicable any longer. Again, my point was that rookie QB's, regardless of whether they end up turning out alright or not, will have uneven (and in some cases, outright putrid) results during that rookie campaign (always exceptions I know, such as Marino, Roethlisberger)--era played in doesn't affect that general truth (see also Manning's first couple stat lines/record rookie year). I chose Aikman's example for the simple reason that his was so astonishingly bad. And while we're on the subject of rookie campaigns, Sam Darnold as a "can't miss" most "pro-ready" QB allegedly of this draft, is enduring his share of Jets fans already calling him a bust. Really? https://empirewritesback.com/2018/09/26/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-bust-talk-ridiculous-even-jets-fans/ 4 hours ago, AllenWillBust said: Wait a few years. We can say the same thing for Allen Edited October 1, 2018 by NoHuddleKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen. The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem. Hey it would be incredibly boring if we all agreed on this, and I for one don't want to attack anyone who voices concerns with Allen. He's by no means Kelly of any of Kelly's years here yet. Instead, he is what he is--a rookie in his first couple starts who's going to screw things up hopefully a little less than he gets things right over the course of this season, but is also incredibly gifted, more so than anyone around here since Kelly retired, therefore all of the hope/hype. But IMO any real analysis of how he's doing so far, has to also start with what he has to work with any given Sunday: http://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/pollock-blaming-allen-for-bills-loss-misses-point/article_8a74cec6-c534-11e8-8182-8bc9caac653b.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: So you only want to hear criticism with the caveat that he's raw and is very likely to develop into a high quality starting NFL QB? What if he actually is a bust and the terrible play we're witnessing doesn't have a silver lining? He's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL and I don't personally think that's a flaw that can be corrected. I bought into the footwork argument, etc. because I WANT TO BELIEVE. At this point, I'm beyond skeptical and I'm kind of tired of Allen apologists acting like that makes me any less of a fan. Funny, I didn’t hear you B word about his accuracy last week, do you want to check Rosen’s or Mayfields completion percentages from yesterday’s games? Let us know what you find... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 hours ago, row_33 said: i don't every recall him being called a bust at any point, the media always kissed his behind as the Messiah of football, he did choke away the inherited lead after Joe got hurt by Leonard Marshall, that was still the Niners game to win Young was regarded as a bust early on. It wasn’t until he ( self admittedly) reinvented his game to make more plays from the pocket that he became a great NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Fred Clause said: Funny, I didn’t hear you B word about his accuracy last week, do you want to check Rosen’s or Mayfields completion percentages from yesterday’s games? Let us know what you find... I didn't B because I was impressed with his performance against the Vikings. My concern is the inaccuracy on what should be routine completions. Those are the very same knocks against him going back to college. I am fine with young QB's making mistakes, throwing picks, missing reads, etc. I am ALARMED when a young QB struggles to accurately throw the ball to a guy 10 yards away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 8 hours ago, schoolhouserock said: What do the other 10% want? Another semester of Common Core...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 hours ago, AllenWillBust said: Wait a few years. So...lemmie be sure I got this. Allen: After three games is definitely, without fail a bust! Three games is enough to evaluate a quarterback. Rosen: Sure he doesn't look good now, but you have to wait a few years before you can judge him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Jerome007 said: He has had one great game where receivers dropped tons of balls and one really bad one. Give him more time, will ya all? If he only had awful games, that's one thing. So far he's made some great showings in the preseason and real games, and some deer-in-the-headlight ones. IMO he has shown enough promise, especially with that surrounding cast, for us to keep faith. Some flaws like doing too much, not reading blitzes well (which seem a TEAM issue as much as his), and a few more are most likely correctable damn fast. Rookie mistakes. Accuracy? He's been off 2 games, and on one. He seems to be the classical "rhythm passer", if in a groove can tear a defense apart, if not, is like a wild goose all over the place. And some of the routes miitakes and long throws misses, well when he knows his receivers better (and vice versa) things will improve. He barely played and practiced with the 1st stringers during preseason. Reading defenses and such, only time will tell if he picks things fast. He is GREEN. Has he shown enough to warrant continuing on even IF the Bills had another option? Damn right. Edit: and he seems tough mentally. That's crazy important for a rookie thrown in the fire with such a dire offensive cast I agree, but would add every Qb for the most part is a rythem passer. The Minnesota game they opened with some screens and some play calls that were designed easy read and throws. That is what they need to do moving forward. McCoy and the running game be damned. Get Allen into a rythem, pick up first downs and get his and the offense confidence up. As much as it is on Allen to get it going, Daboll needs to script a better start. Throw out weeks 2 and 4 and really look at what they did week 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: Because that guy says nothing but stupid cliches. Let's blame millenials.... he's going to say it's all a joke but it's not. Angry millennial is angry! To the safe space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I think Allen is raw with alot of upside. His accuracy issues must be fixed, however, I dont know how well that can be judged yet. This kid is playing behind a terrible line with the worst receiver corps I have ever seen the Bills field. When a QB cant rely on either he is doomed. Lets let him develop (or hope he does) and build around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 he seems to be accurate when he steps into throws and isnt running for his life Coaching staff had no answer once the game script started to get away from them They panicked early and abandoned the run game. Josh hurt them with the pick at the end of the 1st half Little bit too much hero ball. The most concerning thing he does which I hope they will fix with better protection and him learning trusting his line more will fix is fleeing the pocket to his right needlessly often right into pressure. That game was more frustrating for me from the standpoint of how quick their playcalling turned to throw/throw/throw. Also stop with the play action bombs on 1st down or give him a 2nd option I have yet to see Foster or anyone else get over the safety by more than half a step That is a incredibly low % offense to run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I didn't B because I was impressed with his performance against the Vikings. My concern is the inaccuracy on what should be routine completions. Those are the very same knocks against him going back to college. I am fine with young QB's making mistakes, throwing picks, missing reads, etc. I am ALARMED when a young QB struggles to accurately throw the ball to a guy 10 yards away. If you would have spent even a small amount of time reviewing his college play you would have understood the reason for his completion percentage. If you would have taken the time to review all of the other rookies yesterday you would have seen similar completion percentages. If he was able to be accurate against Minnesota, then he is able to be accurate. Our game plan and execution sucked yesterday. Don’t know where the OC’s thinking was playing in Green Bay on his QB’s third start, couldn’t have been more foolish. Until this team gets built around Allen, nobody knows what he is going to be. Watching KC play tonight it’s ridiculous how much better the design of their offenses is and the execution by the offensive line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 11 hours ago, THE SLAMMER said: LOL, Remember the Patience Poll? 78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years.... Looks like the 22% WANT IT NOW!!! Must be the Millenniums They probably search their phones for a quarterback app! Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Fred Clause said: If you would have spent even a small amount of time reviewing his college play you would have understood the reason for his completion percentage. If you would have taken the time to review all of the other rookies yesterday you would have seen similar completion percentages. If he was able to be accurate against Minnesota, then he is able to be accurate. Our game plan and execution sucked yesterday. Don’t know where the OC’s thinking was playing in Green Bay on his QB’s third start, couldn’t have been more foolish. Until this team gets built around Allen, nobody knows what he is going to be. Watching KC play tonight it’s ridiculous how much better the design of their offenses is and the execution by the offensive line. I had a different takeaway watching Kansas City. As a guy who desperately wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes, it's excruciating. I like results, not excuses; I guess I'm old fashioned that way. Edited October 2, 2018 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 16 hours ago, Fred Clause said: If you would have spent even a small amount of time reviewing his college play you would have understood the reason for his completion percentage. If you would have taken the time to review all of the other rookies yesterday you would have seen similar completion percentages. If he was able to be accurate against Minnesota, then he is able to be accurate. Our game plan and execution sucked yesterday. Don’t know where the OC’s thinking was playing in Green Bay on his QB’s third start, couldn’t have been more foolish. Until this team gets built around Allen, nobody knows what he is going to be. Watching KC play tonight it’s ridiculous how much better the design of their offenses is and the execution by the offensive line. Well. The problem is that it takes grown ups and actual understanding to even want to get it, much less get it. These people don’t post dozens of times a day or need the attention. I just cringe when people bring up buzzwords like footwork and accuracy because as I’m sure you know, neither you or I or anyone else has any credibility to discuss that. Josh Allen has zero room with people here and it’s sad because most of that is based on posturing and a need for legitimacy . 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I had a different takeaway watching Kansas City. As a guy who desperately wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes, it's excruciating. I like results, not excuses; I guess I'm old fashioned that way. You weren’t impressed by the line play, the talent and design of that offense? I did see some bad passes from Mahomes, but overall I have to say he was damn impressive. But there is no mistaking he would not be as impressive if he was here in this situation. But right now, the kid looks to be damn good... 7 hours ago, bobblehead said: Well. The problem is that it takes grown ups and actual understanding to even want to get it, much less get it. These people don’t post dozens of times a day or need the attention. I just cringe when people bring up buzzwords like footwork and accuracy because as I’m sure you know, neither you or I or anyone else has any credibility to discuss that. Josh Allen has zero room with people here and it’s sad because most of that is based on posturing and a need for legitimacy . Before we drafted a QB, almost everyone said he would need two years to develop. Now, there is a large crew here that thinks we should give up after 3 starts. It’s pretty ridiculous... Edited October 3, 2018 by Fred Clause 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 There are things a nfl qb should be able to do at this level even as a rookie. Being able to read a blitz and knowing where the hot read is. Is one of them. Defensive coordinators are going to have a field day with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Good TBN article article by QB coach Jim Kubiak. Starts out very basic, keep reading - good assessment of Allen's sacks vs Packers. https://buffalonews.com/2018/10/01/buffalo-bills-jim-kubiak-josh-allen-sacks-green-bay-packers/ Some key quotes: " The study of the seven sacks given up by the Bills revealed a couple of important truths. The first is that Green Bay did a very good job of disguising their blitzes. ..... three of the seven sacks occurred on third-and-4, third-and-3 and third-and-3 respectively. ..... Five of the sacks .... were designed five- and six-man pressures . Two (were( ordinary four-man rushes where the Bills offensive line simply could not hold up for extended time " (he then goes into some suggestions how the Bills offense could better counter or exploit the Blitz 3 hours ago, Chris66 said: There are things a nfl qb should be able to do at this level even as a rookie. Being able to read a blitz and knowing where the hot read is. Is one of them. Defensive coordinators are going to have a field day with him. Not so fast, Grasshopper. One of the things (known from McCarthy's past, and confirmed in the above article) is that Green Bay does a very very good job indeed of disguising their blitzes. They'll show Blitz with a LB then pull back and send a safety, or vice-versa. I haven't looked at the all-22 yet (couldn't stand to) but in the past Green Bay has been pretty effective with an "amoeba" or "psycho" front with only one down lineman and 7-8 men standing up. Old but good article on this makes the point using a Brady play as an example: " It works, and it's hard to plan for on the blackboard, "because you don't know how they're going to move. ...You're dealing with human beings moving around. So, Brady comes to the line -- let's say that there are six guys to the right side of the offensive line, and two on the left. Brady sets the protection. Then, just before the ball is snapped, four of those six on the right side move to the left side. The protection has been set, and the ball has to be snapped because there's two seconds left on the play clock. What do you do?" I'm not clear that Allen always had a hot read, or an "Alert!" play with a hot read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Chris66 said: There are things a nfl qb should be able to do at this level even as a rookie. Being able to read a blitz and knowing where the hot read is. Is one of them. Defensive coordinators are going to have a field day with him. Unless of course our garbage OC didn't have one in the particular package. Which, given his propensity to run a whole boatload of 10 yard+ routes with terrible receivers is a distinct possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I had a different takeaway watching Kansas City. As a guy who desperately wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes, it's excruciating. I like results, not excuses; I guess I'm old fashioned that way. Can we get something that even remotely resembles kc offensive weapons before asking for those results? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Can we get something that even remotely resembles kc offensive weapons before asking for those results? We could easily have Pat Mahomes and Sammy Watkins, but the Bills just wouldn't be the Bills if that were the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: We could easily have Pat Mahomes and Sammy Watkins, but the Bills just wouldn't be the Bills if that were the situation. That is simplistic thinking and they have a heck of a lot more then Sammy watkins their entire starting offense would start over ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: We could easily have Pat Mahomes and Sammy Watkins, but the Bills just wouldn't be the Bills if that were the situation. Just what has Sammy Watkins done since he left us and at what cost? I don’t like what has been done to our receivers, but the truth is Boby Woods would have been better to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 7 hours ago, bobblehead said: Well. The problem is that it takes grown ups and actual understanding to even want to get it, much less get it. These people don’t post dozens of times a day or need the attention. I just cringe when people bring up buzzwords like footwork and accuracy because as I’m sure you know, neither you or I or anyone else has any credibility to discuss that. Josh Allen has zero room with people here and it’s sad because most of that is based on posturing and a need for legitimacy . Boom. Lumber laid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: We could easily have Pat Mahomes and Sammy Watkins, but the Bills just wouldn't be the Bills if that were the situation. No. Stop stating this myth and lie. Sammy was gone REGARDLESS if we drafted Mahomes. There is no reality where they would BOTH be on this team. So stop. They didnt keep Sammy because of they knew they were not going to pay what he get on the open market. Had NOTHING to do with who the QB was. Had they drafted Mahomes, he still gets traded. Its that simple...and even IF they didnt trade him, there was ZERO chance they would have paid him $16m that he got in FA. You dont seem to have a grasp of reality when it comes to should have could have game you seem to love to play right now. Edited October 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm not clear that Allen always had a hot read, or an "Alert!" play with a hot read. I really didn't see any, though sometimes on TV we don't see enough of the field. So yeah Allen and the center have to adjust protection but also the RECEIVERS have to as well with hot routes. When so many players do not do it, a good chunk of the responsibility falls on the coaches! Sweeps, roll outs, passes in the flat, reverses, runs, many ways to also counter it, get Allen in groove, save him from the pounding, make use of his talents. While he sure has the arm to lead a vertical style of offense, the rest of the staff on offense don't. So I hope Daboll doesn't repeat last week's game plan! And that they pick the blitzes better! Just that alone would be HUGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Couple Allen related thoughts: Allen really needs to learn to feel the pressure better. You watch any of the top QBs and they are able to make the most out of just taking a few steps within the pocket. With him though, it just feels like he gets happy feet and stops thinking about how to move about in the pocket to maximize his chance to get off a good throw. When we had Tyrod, it was hard to evaluate how good our receivers really were. It's the opposite now; it's hard to evaluate Allen's progress because of how bad our receivers (and o-line) are. Along the same lines, I think it's difficult to say how bad (or good?) of a game Daboll is calling when their is team-wide failure to execute on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Pettine had his number. He kills young Quarterbacks. That's all that happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 They really need to get a WR that can catch a damn ball. KB and Zay are about as useless as nipples on a man. **** I’d be happy with Dez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 People love the Aikman comparison anytime a rookie QB doesn't look good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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