NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, or simply refusing to believe that the Bills could screw up QB again after Kelly, so I took the liberty of digging a little bit into the rookie seasons of another HOF great QB that others have also posted about as a point of comparison, Troy Aikman, who endured (and his fanbase by extension) one of the most cursed rookie campaigns (1-15) of all time in 1989 before hitting SB glory (starting with 2x against our beloved Bills of course). As a side note, his supporting cast in 1989 already included a lot of the names some of you old enough will remember from their SB run, including Ken Norton Jr., Jim Jeffcoat, Daryl (Moose) Johnston, Mark Stepnoski, et. al. Oh, and that one win? Aikman wasn't even on the field for that, as Steve Walsh, the other QB Dallas drafted that year since no one was 100% sold on Aikman coming out either, started for 5 games while Aikman sat injured. So take heart fellow Bills fans, and let these quick hits of why Aikman's rookie year will still wind up as worse than Allen's (through Week 4, was for sure) hopefully make you feel a little less jumpy this morning: (1) Local media hated the 1st round pick: http://thecomeback.com/freezingcoldtakes/nfl/troy-aikman-dallas-cowboys-draft-blew-it.html Nothing that happened in 1989 would have done anything to make Al Carter of the Houston Chronicle think that he was barking up the wrong tree...probably a good thing that he didn't have a Twitter account back then to whip up the fanbase into a further frenzy with his "hot" takes of how Aikman was a bust. (2) For a proud franchise which was used to a dynasty of success under Staubach and Landry, going 1-15 in 1989 was actually almost inexplicably worse than going 3-13 in 1988, yet the Cowboys managed to do just that, and Jimmy Johnson somehow survived without being run out on a rail.(The patience paid off Bills fans...) (3) Week 4 of the 1989 season featured the Cowboys going down in flames to the Giants, 30-13, dropping them to 0-4 on the year, and, Aikman left the game with a broken finger, and lost valuable starting reps for the next 5 weeks after that. (Can you even imagine this happening to Allen yesterday??) (4) Aikman's gaudy statistics, especially his completion % and TD/INT ratio in the games that he did start that year, would make even Peterman blush. How would all of you enjoy watching a 52.9% completion rate, double the picks with 18 versus 9 TD's, and a paltry 6.0 yards per completion average?? http://www.nfl.com/player/troyaikman/2499369/careerstats (5) Aikman's O-line surrendered 19 sacks where the pounding he took set the stage for his chronic back and concussion issues which dogged his career. Here's a nice "lookout" block from the interior of his line in 1989 as a visual aid: However, it is also undisputed that the nucleus of the line in 1989 resulted in excellent line play in the years following. Final Note: before "Peterman threw 5 picks" points this out for me, Steve Walsh appears to have been a more serviceable backup to Aikman than Peterman is to Allen--so there's one point where maybe the analogy comes out worse for us. But other than that, who in 1989 could have foreseen what was to come based on what happened Aikman's rookie year? FYI, his numbers his sophomore campaign weren't a ton better, but there was steady improvement with the patience shown. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game. It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it. 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) I’m not down on him at all. I expected rough patches, even if he had a lot more help. My only prayer is that he isn’t somehow physically broken or otherwise ruined. Hopefully he’s strong enough physically and mentally to withstand a difficult start and learn and grow from it. Get some help around him and let him learn. Time will tell, but THIS is not the time. . Edited October 1, 2018 by Augie 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, BmarvB said: Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game. Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Different era, comparisons are moot. Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) LOL, Remember the Patience Poll? 78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years.... Looks like the 22% WANT IT NOW!!! Must be the Millenniums Edited October 1, 2018 by THE SLAMMER 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Why are we worried about Allen? Hes the least of my concerns on the offensive side of the ball. Until I see cover1 all 22 breakdown of WRs consistently getting open, protection being solid and THEN Josh making poor decisions...im not too worried about him yet. Im worried about the staff...the offensive line and the WRs more than anything. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Different era, comparisons are moot. Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. I'm not trying to compare eras or discuss how much those are the same or different. All I am trying to point out, is that the overall circumstances faced by rookies who carry high expectations, can be overwhelming and appear to produce a bust, when just a little bit of patience could go a long way. This is not to say that automatically having patience will produce good results, as we still don't know obviously how all of this will play out with Allen. But there are comparisons to be made with future HOF QB's having to take their lumps, regardless of era played in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. True. It's all part of his brutal learning experience. Edited October 1, 2018 by BmarvB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I'm not trying to compare eras or discuss how much those are the same or different. All I am trying to point out, is that the overall circumstances faced by rookies who carry high expectations, can be overwhelming and appear to produce a bust, when just a little bit of patience could go a long way. This is not to say that automatically having patience will produce good results, as we still don't know obviously how all of this will play out with Allen. But there are comparisons to be made with future HOF QB's having to take their lumps, regardless of era played in. There are also future HOFers who have produced from Day 1. There are many ways to develop a franchise QB, but the path the Bills have chosen is concerning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Hes the most raw qb of this class and has the worst supporting cast I have ever seen. Id say hes not doing too bad compared to Darnold who has a much better roster. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoolhouserock Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said: LOL, Remember the Patience Poll? 78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years.... Looks like the 12% WANT IT NOW!!! Must be the Millenniums What do the other 10% want? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, schoolhouserock said: What do the other 10% want? I speak for my people, and I say............FREE WINGS! Edited October 1, 2018 by Augie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: There are also future HOFers who have produced from Day 1. There are many ways to develop a franchise QB, but the path the Bills have chosen is concerning. I will grant you there are many questions that need to be answered by this regime--what answers they provide will hopefully pay off quicker than later, but this year is looking more and more like moral victories at most can be hoped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH063 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I think Allen could develop into a heck of a QB but realistically, how does Allen, or any QB for that matter, learn, improve, become really good with a bad O-line, bad receivers, bad coaching, anemic run game, etc. He's going to learn for sure but because it's such chaos after the snap of the ball he has no time on most plays to learn anything. He's not stupid. He knows the talent level he's playing with is sub par. Is his situation going to offer him the very best learning experience or is it just going to teach him to become Captain check down the III and to not get killed? Unfortunately, I think he gets hurt before the end of the season and the Bills finish out the season with Peterman and some journeyman they're forced to pick up so they are carrying two QB's and Logan Thomas as the emergency 3rd QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen. The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said: Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. you might be surprised how often it isn't.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, BmarvB said: Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game. It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it. I agree, but every excuse you list for him is every reason to clean house.... and that turns into process patience bull ****. It's an annoying cycle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen. The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem. What? Voicing legit concerns is one thing. Most of the negative comments are simply "he's a bust" "a joke" and whatnot, and then wait to jump on him when he has a bad game to prove "they're right". His flaws are well known. So what remains to be seen, and only time can tell, is if how quickly he learns overall and shores up SOME of his flaws during the year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Jerome007 said: What? Voicing legit concerns is one thing. Most of the negative comments are simply "he's a bust" "a joke" and whatnot, and then wait to jump on him when he has a bad game to prove "they're right". His flaws are well known. So what remains to be seen, and only time can tell, is if how quickly he learns overall and shores up SOME of his flaws during the year. some people have a hard time realizing what's actually discussion vs pooping in every thread with the same meathead, angry comment. i didn't like the allen pick, but since he's a bill, i'm pulling for him every step of the way. other will go out of their way to bag on this kid for the exact reason you stated. we all knew there was going to be a group that doesn't have the ability to be patient to see if a qb develops. !@#$ em. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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