Ease up on Allen

[AllenWillBust]

Allen is a bust like I tried to tell you all, but, whatever.

[Buddy Hix]

We all know the issues Allen has to work through, but criticizing his inaccurate throws and inability to read a defence are fair game.

 

What happened to the progress we were sold after his time with Palmer? Allen was missing throws by 5-10 feet early on.

 

And being under pressure is tough, no doubt, but making the decision to throw it up on the run, across the field is laughable, it shouldn’t happen at this level.

 

We all hope things change, but 1/4 of the season is over and Allen looks like some of the draft grades advertised, a 3rd round project.

 

It’s not really the kids fault. Beane reached on a project and had no plan to help the young man progress.

[row_33]

32 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Rexy actually kept us in a game with Brady without pressure, remember that?

 

 

Math lessons.

 

For sure.

 

And had some success against Brady with the Jets.

 

But my memories of Brady and Montana will be them often finding a way to win in the 4th quarter when their days weren't going so well or the other team stood on its head for 3 quarters.

 

 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Different era, comparisons are moot. 

Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. 

 

 

it's impossible to usefully compare stats in any sport with ten years prior

 

but don't stop these folks from spending 13 total years of their lives on this project.... 

 

 

[Happy]

33 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

is there any point trying to make an elite QB "panic" and lose his cool when you can't deliver the rush?
 

 

 

I think we can deliver the rush as shown in the Vikings game and second half of the Chargers game.  Scheming to deliver the rush and an aggressive defense is much better than a timid one, like yesterday, against an elite QB.  They might still beat you, but they'll shred you if you can't get to them.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

It’s hard not to question what seems like is happening. But I also think Allen and his rook-ness 

are just part of the story 

 

The passing plays dont seem scripted enough. Too many reads maybe? . Lots of low percentage passes. Once behind Allen was taking deep shots as opposed to hitting underneath but hard to say if that was him or the call. It’s like anti Trent. Rarely taking the Check down. 

 

Packers brought 5 or 6 most of the game. But there was no answer.  swing to McCoy might beat that, but it wasn’t used much after the first 7 yard gain. Blitz recognition doesn’t seem to be there.  

 

late in fourth quarter he seemed to find Zay and realize he can get open.  Ball was coming out much faster. 

 

Also why wouldn’t KBenj be used like a tight end from the slot? unless there is a busted coverage except for on inside slants he’s usually easily covered. 

 

How many times is he going to throw deep back to the middle of the field on the run???  

 

What I liked is he never stopped trying to win that game. 

 

 

Defense wasnt great but good.  dropped a possible pick six that could have been a nice spark. 

 

bills got way more help from officials v minny. 

[jr1]

and no salary cap until 1994

[AllenWillBust]

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

Why are we worried about Allen?

 

The biggest concern is that he was drafted at all by this franchise with Rosen still on the board.  Huge setback for this team, many years lost.

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. 

 

 

Not if you mean blitzing.  Rookie qb's lead the league in the number of times they're blitzed, where guys like Rodgers, Brady and Peyton get blitzed far less because of their ability to consistently beat them.

[mead107]

3 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

The biggest concern is that he was drafted at all by this franchise with Rosen still on the board.  Huge setback for this team, many years lost.

??? Seriously   What has Rosen done?

[AllenWillBust]

2 minutes ago, mead107 said:

??? Seriously   What has Rosen done?

 

Wait a few years.

[OldTimer1960]

45 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

So you only want to hear criticism with the caveat that he's raw and is very likely to develop into a high quality starting NFL QB?

 

What if he actually is a bust and the terrible play we're witnessing doesn't have a silver lining?

 

He's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL and I don't personally think that's a flaw that can be corrected. I bought into the footwork argument, etc. because I WANT TO BELIEVE. At this point, I'm beyond skeptical and I'm kind of tired of Allen apologists acting like that makes me any less of a fan.

He completed nearly 70% of his passes last week.  I think that there is evidence that when he has some time to throw and has a reasonable (normal) mix of short, medium and longer throws that he can be accurate. 

 

I did not see the use of shorter passes as they did against the Vikings in this game until late.  Maybe because Allen wasn't willing to throw them, but I didn't notice them in the routes.

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

I watched yesterday's game with my buddy who is a Packers fan. His observation was that he did not believe that Allen  trusts his receivers to catch the ball when he throws it. The number of pumps on passing plays was, at times, ridiculous. It was as though he wanted to throw but saw who is the receiver on the other end and decided it wasn't worth the risk. That was his assessment and, in general, I could see that being the case.

[row_33]

35 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

We will know a lot more about Allen's chances by the end of the year but it's unlikely we will have anywhere near a reliable final opinion.  It took Steve Young longer to pan out. Along these lines the timing of the rebuild is not ideal. If the Bills look mainly to the draft to shore up the O-line and WR group they will likely have to wait a year or two for these guys, even if top shelf prospects, to begin realizing their potential - see David DeCastro, Corey Davis, Mike Williams and many others). I expect they will be very aggressive in free agency.

 

Steve Young was GIFTWRAPPED a Super Bowl championship team

 

 

 

[row_33]

25 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think we can deliver the rush as shown in the Vikings game and second half of the Chargers game.  Scheming to deliver the rush and an aggressive defense is much better than a timid one, like yesterday, against an elite QB.  They might still beat you, but they'll shred you if you can't get to them.

 

as usual, you make sense on here

 

i'll accept anything worth cheering for, if it's nothing then it isn't so bad....

 

 

[mead107]

3 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Wait a few years.

So we can’t wait for Allen? ?

[BillsfanAZ]

9 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

The biggest concern is that he was drafted at all by this franchise with Rosen still on the board.  Huge setback for this team, many years lost.

Over the course of the season it may look different but at this point the only QB that I would rather have over Allen is maybe Mayfield but not sure how much better he would do on this team. Rosen made a few good passes yesterday but hasnt shown anything. 

[Aussie Joe]

People mention Aikman ( or Manning) but not many mention Joey Harrington or several others who were drafted high and who sucked in their rookie campaign and never  really improved...

 

Regardless, what these other guys did or didn’t do will have no impact on how Allen’s career unfolds..

 

 

[BmarvB]

57 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Once he starts to read a defense, I will give him a break, but just like at Wyoming, he creates his own problems because he has no idea what he is doing out there.

 

One of the most physically gifted athletes this league will ever see, but mentally there is a lot to be desired. 

 

He needs to learn protections and defense ASAP.

 Oh he's going to learn, just not from his OC, QB coach or Peterman,

[John from Riverside]

32 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

Allen is a bust like I tried to tell you all, but, whatever.

Nobody takes you seriously though......so there is that

[TheElectricCompany]

20 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Not if you mean blitzing.  Rookie qb's lead the league in the number of times they're blitzed, where guys like Rodgers, Brady and Peyton get blitzed far less because of their ability to consistently beat them.

 

Pressure is always going to be the #1 way to throw off a good QB, but it's not the only way. 

Confusing looks, taking away primary receiving options, coverage shifts from zone to man or vice versa, etc. can each be effective. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[JoPar_v2]

Lol no shortage of excuse makers for this guy here, even after an abysmal game. Save your “ease up on poor baby” threads. He’s professional now (just like KB, Zay, Ducasse and all the other players you will readily flame) and needs to go out there and produce, or, at the very least, show some progession towards producing wins. 

 

Some of y’all are creepy. Treating Allen like your newborn. 

[starrymessenger]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Steve Young was GIFTWRAPPED a Super Bowl championship team

 

 

 

 

Yes, of course. And he got to sit awhile behind JM before taking over in SF. I was just saying a year probably won't be long enuf to come to any firm and final conclusions on JA. After two years with the Bucs, a team worse than the Bills, he was labelled a bust. He went on to have an ok career you might say.

[sleeby]

24 minutes ago, mead107 said:

So we can’t wait for Allen? ?

Well, he can't - he made his username based on it.  Everytime JA completes a pass he looks like a dork. 

[BmarvB]

20 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

 

Some of y’all are creepy. Treating Allen like your newborn. 

 

For all practical purposes, he IS still a newborn who's going to have a tough time growing and developing in this situation.

[teef]

37 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Nobody takes you seriously though......so there is that

He’s in need of attention.   Responding was kind of you. 

[Seventeen]

Rosen and Darnold were average at best yesterday, Mayfield a little better but he has Chubb, Hyde, receivers and an offensive line. Patience ...

[Troll Toll]

Josh is infinitely more promising than former Bills QBs from the standpoint that we know he can deliver accurate passes. The crazy pass rush he has faced has lowered his completion percentage considerably, but I have full confidence that given time he can deliver strikes.

 

I just hope they are teaching him the presnap adjustments.

[Fadingpain]

3 hours ago, BmarvB said:

Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it.

 

So really what you are saying is ease up on Allen, but go hard on McBeane. 

 

Let's not forget that the shitstorm Allen plays in the middle of, and which you nicely outline,  is the creation of a series of calculated missteps from the dynamic duo.

 

 

[Fadingpain]

2 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Different era, comparisons are moot. 

Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. 

 

This is TBD! 

 

I think you mean comparisons are "MUTE".

 

2 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Why are we worried about Allen?

 

Hes the least of my concerns on the offensive side of the ball. Until I see cover1 all 22 breakdown of WRs consistently getting open, protection being solid and THEN Josh making poor decisions...im not too worried about him yet. 

 

Im worried about the staff...the offensive line and the WRs more than anything.

If you think it is impossible to evaluate Allen, you're wrong.

 

Receivers are open on most plays and he is not under duress every time he looks to throw the ball.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I'm not trying to compare eras or discuss how much those are the same or different. 

 

 

If.......in 1990........I had told you that the Bills should do something that the 1960 Bills did that helped them develop into a winner would you have found that applicable?

 

Because 30 years is a LONG time in the NFL.

 

The Cowboys INTENTIONALLY tanked to load up on talent.

 

Because that USED to work.

 

The last time a team parlayed the first pick into a long run of competitiveness was the 1998 Colts.

 

All the consistently championship competitive teams in the 2000's have gotten there while rising from mediocrity.

 

Whether you were trying to compare eras or not is irrelevant.   You did and the Cowboys example just isn't applicable any longer.

 

 

[BmarvB]

9 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

So really what you are saying is ease up on Allen, but go hard on McBeane. 

 

Let's not forget that the shitstorm Allen plays in the middle of, and which you nicely outline,  is the creation of a series of calculated missteps from the dynamic duo.

 

 

 

Yep. I was sugarcoating it. but your assessment is quite accurate

[ctk232]

3 hours ago, BmarvB said:

Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it.

 

While I'm in total agreement here that it's way too early for our typically overly-emotional Monday reactions. Albeit, getting shutout is never what you want to see waking up Sunday, but this is not a consistent team, and frankly looks like a team without an identity or any kind of cohesion. This is a large problem that extends beyond roster holes and depth charts, but I'll leave that for another post.

 

I only wonder if Allen can "only get better" from the experiences he's having. I'm not saying we should start Peterman, or that we should go looking for another QB whether interim or long term, I have to question that the trial by fire method for all rookie QBs is effective. I think it can be if the rookie is surrounded by a team who knows what it's doing, has a cohesive identity, and performs consistently at the NFL level. This is not that environment, and Allen can only respond to his experiences. If what he is experiencing is atypical for an NFL team, what habits is he then building? Not all of it can be bad, but can exposing him with this team actually only be for the better?

 

I'll wrap this up by addressing those who say, "it's the NFL, if he doesn't pan out then we draft another and move on." Can't say I completely agree there either, while it would be the only option. We really don't want to become the Buffalo Browns rotating out coaches and QBs every season, but if we're going to capitalize on a top overall pick for a QB, this next year might be our best bet. So you have to ask, can you even really guarantee the kind of QB Allen will be at the end of this season?

[AllenWillBust]

1 hour ago, mead107 said:

So we can’t wait for Allen? ?

 

We have no choice?

[AllenWillBust]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Nobody takes you seriously though......so there is that

 

Who takes anyone serious on the internet?  

 

But let's just go ahead, go through the motions, give Allen 3 years, then pine over what could have been...  I guess that's what Bills fans do best.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

He completed nearly 70% of his passes last week.  I think that there is evidence that when he has some time to throw and has a reasonable (normal) mix of short, medium and longer throws that he can be accurate. 

 

I did not see the use of shorter passes as they did against the Vikings in this game until late.  Maybe because Allen wasn't willing to throw them, but I didn't notice them in the routes.

 

 

As I mentioned in another thread, there was a short pass to a wide open Clay that was about 5 yards off target. The GB sideline was in disbelief.

 

It's this type of wild inaccuracy that makes me question Allen long term. 

 

It really seems like the consensus is that anyone questioning Allen's viability want to see him fail. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are some serious red flags with this kid.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Who takes anyone serious on the internet?  

 

But let's just go ahead, go through the motions, give Allen 3 years, then pine over what could have been...  I guess that's what Bills fans do best.

Just dont change your screen name please.....when Josh Allen looks much better next year.....we all need a good laugh

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

As I mentioned in another thread, there was a short pass to a wide open Clay that was about 5 yards off target. The GB sideline was in disbelief.

 

It's this type of wild inaccuracy that makes me question Allen long term. 

 

It really seems like the consensus is that anyone questioning Allen's viability want to see him fail. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are some serious red flags with this kid.

or it could have been a miscommunication on the route

or he could have been throwing the ball away.....which he did SEVERAL times yesterday

[Success]

I haven’t lost any faith at all.

 

The one “bad” pick was a classic rookie mistake.  Trying to do too much.  Easy fix.

 

The rest of the day, as many have said, zero protection, and no receivers open.  On a few of the wide shots, it looked like our receivers and their d-backs were joined at the hip, or doing a sack race.  An impossible situation.

[Figster]

Everyone can agree the Offense as a unit has a long way to go. When you take into consideration very low reps going into the season between rookie QB J A and the starting unit.  New system installation and the rookie himself experiencing Defensive looks and superior play from the opposition on a whole new level. Its all part of the learning curve IMO.

 

The most important thing that can happen for the Buffalo Bills this season is the growth and health of Josh Allen in my humble opinion.

 

Myself Personally, we will see improvement from Allen and the Buffalo Bills as time goes on.

 

Growing pains...

[row_33]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Yes, of course. And he got to sit awhile behind JM before taking over in SF. I was just saying a year probably won't be long enuf to come to any firm and final conclusions on JA. After two years with the Bucs, a team worse than the Bills, he was labelled a bust. He went on to have an ok career you might say.

 

 

i don't every recall him being called a bust at any point, the media always kissed his behind as the Messiah of football,

 

he did choke away the inherited lead after Joe got hurt by Leonard Marshall, that was still the Niners game to win