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TheElectricCompany

SI - Josh Allen, Thrown to the Wolves

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5 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

It's irrelevant.  People who succeed will do it regardless of the circumstances they are given.  If they have the talent, it won't matter. People who say this type of stuff are much more like Vontae Davis than Kyle Williams.  When the going gets tough they just cry and whine and pack up their things and go home.  PRetty sure Mark Sheppard is not very successful, people who are don't think like that.

Edited by matter2003
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Mark Shepard is probably a TBD message board member. Ok dude, who are you on here lol?

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Thanks OP, good article. The story was pretty balanced, giving both sides the sitting/starting argument a fair shake.

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5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

PRetty sure Mark Sheppard is not very successful, people who are don't think like that.

If he really was the one who kicked off the table smashing, then I greatly value his contributions to the community. 

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Yet another moron saying Tyrod “lead the Bills to the playoffs.”

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Well, if you draw up a situation for ANY rookie QB to come into this is not a place that screams "mold a young QB"

 

-No vet QB on roster to help in film room

-Culley the QB coach that specializes in WRs

-Daboll no track record of developing a QB

-Horrible oline in front of him

-Not good weapons around him

-Defense minded Head Coach

 

I do think however Allen is going to be a good one. One thing I think works in his favor is he's playing the Chargers, Vikings and other top defenses right away. Getting his feet wet against a tsunami so to speak.

 

2nd half of the year I can really see him slow the game down against the "middle of the pack" defenses and start to shine.

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3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yet another moron saying Tyrod “lead the Bills to the playoffs.”

 

 

sorry that hurts you 

 

anyway, Josh was not put in the best position to succeed, but we'll see how this all plays out.

Edited by 87168

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I see David Carr is still making excuses why he was a ****ty player. Little brother Derek had no problem being tossed to the wolves. 

5 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yet another moron saying Tyrod “lead the Bills to the playoffs.”

 

 

 

The minute you read or hear this you know they never watched the Bills play last year. 

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11 minutes ago, 416BillsFan said:

Thanks OP, good article. The story was pretty balanced, giving both sides the sitting/starting argument a fair shake.

 

I actually agree with this mostly - while the headline is clickbait, the beginning is harsh and there are some of those come on man moments (Tyrod, a player literally quit at halftime), they do point out some of the positives we might see along the way...

 

Quote

Yet, even with seemingly all factors conspiring against him, the rookie’s confidence did not appear to get shaken. He displayed poise, stayed steady in the pocket on the rare snaps there was one, and clearly improved as the game went on.

 

👍

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The only expectations for this season are for Allen and Edmunds to develop with no pressure to make the playoffs.

 

It looks like both are mature enough to learn from their mistakes. As long as the fans don't boo them and let them learn the hard way. 

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11 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Maybe he is a Wolf slayer

 

Yep. People use the term "thrown to the wolves" as if it is always a bad thing. Everyone has situations in their life where they have been "thrown to the wolves". Sometimes you get eaten alive yes, but sometimes you step up like you did not know you were capable of. Most situations in my life where I have really grown as a human being were just such situations. 

 

This is exactly why you draft a prospect based upon more than just physical talent. This kid grew up on a farm, went to a tiny HS, didn't initially get a D1 offer and when he did he had to strap the team on his back every week to give them a chance. I have a hunch that Allen's got some wolf slayer in him. 

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This is not about growing or stepping up. This is about become a top tier franchise QB and if the Bills have created the right environment for that goal. 

He's a top 10 pick. Isn't it assumed that he is resilient, driven and tough as nails? 

I believe Allen is all of those things, but those will not be the primary reason he succeeds or fails.  

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15 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I see David Carr is still making excuses why he was a ****ty player. Little brother Derek had no problem being tossed to the wolves. 

 

The minute you read or hear this you know they never watched the Bills play last year. 

Derek and David played in two very different situations. The Raiders have generally had a solid offensive line, manned by top draft choices. The expansion Texans had turnstiles up front. 

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38 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It's irrelevant.  People who succeed will do it regardless of the circumstances they are given.  If they have the talent, it won't matter. People who say this type of stuff are much more like Vontae Davis than Kyle Williams.  When the going gets tough they just cry and whine and pack up their things and go home.  PRetty sure Mark Sheppard is not very successful, people who are don't think like that.

This is baloney. QB's that go to bad teams usually end up on the scrap heap and the some that do succeed like Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman didn't go to teams as bad as the current Buffalo Bills. Manning was only sacked 22 times his first year at Indy and Aikman was only sacked 19 times at Dallas. Meanwhile Allen has already been sacked 8 times in a game and a half. 

 

While David Carr was sacked 79 times and referred to as a tackling dummy...the Bills QBs are on a pace to beat that number with 88 as Josh with 8, Peterman with 3 in a little over a half. 

 

The article mentions Manning but doesn't say he was only sacked 22 times because he also had some decent talent on his offensive line to protect him. He also had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison on that team. It was Manning learning the ropes with a 56.7 completion percentage and with 26 TDs, 28 Ints. 

 

As for Aikman his offensive line was arguably the very best the NFL has ever seen with LT Mark Tuinei 15 years with Dallas, LG Nate Newton 13 years with Dallas, Center Tom Raftery 14 years with Dallas, RG Crawford Kerr 6 years with Dallas, RT Kevin Cogan 7 years with Dallas, 14 in the NFL. Aikman learning the NFL ropes  9 TDs, 18 INTs with a 52.9 completion percentage. 

 

**What's interesting to me is the same year the team drafted Aikman #1 overall they also drafted OG Steve Wisniewski with the 29th pick (second round) and center Mark Stepnoski with the #57th pick (3rd round). So, it looks like the Cowboys FO went out of their way to make sure that pick at QB was well protected. 

 

 

Like I said, you throw a rookie QB on a bad team that can't protect him and he usually ends up on the scrap heap. If Allen even survives this season it will be a miracle. 

Edited by Nihilarian
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4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

This is baloney. QB's that go to bad teams usually end up on the scrap heap and the some that do succeed like Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman didn't go to teams as bad as the current Buffalo Bills. Manning was only sacked 22 times his first year at Indy and Aikman was only sacked 19 times at Dallas. Meanwhile Allen has already been sacked 8 times in a game and a half. 

 

While David Carr was sacked 79 times and referred to as a tackling dummy...the Bills QBs are on a pace to beat that number with 88 as Josh with 8, Peterman with 3 in a little over a half. 

 

The article mentions Manning but doesn't say he was only sacked 22 times because he also had some decent talent on his offensive line to protect him. He also had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison on that team. It was Manning learning the ropes with a 56.7 completion percentage and with 26 TDs, 28 Ints. 

 

As for Aikman his offensive line was arguably the very best the NFL has ever seen with LT Mark Tuinei 15 years with Dallas, LG Nate Newton 13 years with Dallas, Center Tom Raftery 14 years with Dallas, RG Crawford Kerr 6 years with Dallas, RT Kevin Cogan 7 years with Dallas, 14 in the NFL. Aikman learning the NFL ropes  9 TDs, 18 INTs with a 52.9 completion percentage. 

 

Like I said, you throw a rookie QB on a bad team that can't protect him and he usually ends up on the scrap heap. If Allen even survives this season it will be a miracle. 

You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy.  Brilliant.

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30 minutes ago, 87168 said:

sorry that hurts you 

 

anyway, Josh was not put in the best position to succeed, but we'll see how this all plays out.

Your lack of capitalization hurts me more than what he wrote.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy.  Brilliant.

Did I really need to mention more than the one the article mentions? 

 

You don't watch football enough to know how many QBs the Cleveland Browns have drafted in the first round in their history to see that *nearly all of them have ended up on the scrap heap? Really? The entire league is littered with failed QBs that went to bad teams...oldmanfan...

 

 

Edited by Nihilarian

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Good piece. My favorite part is the most optimistic line here is Eric Wood saying that "disaster is not a foregone conclusion." LOL.

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20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy.  Brilliant.

 

Tim Couch, for one.

 

It's a pretty tough argument to support either way.  Guys who were never given a chance could just as easily be labeled as "not talented enough".

 

 

But Goff is a pretty good recent example.  His rookie year he was labeled a bust and pretty much written off.  Gurley was also labeled a one year wonder.  The Rams hired an innovative coach, completely overhauled their WR core and brought in a vet LT and Center, suddenly they are the best offense in football.  

 

Simply put, very few if any current "franchise QBs" around the league were put into a worse situation than Allen currently faces.  However, many "never was / draft busts" faced similar circumstances.  To pretend a guy should be so talented you can just roll the ball out there with anyone from day 1 and he'll make it work is one of the dumber things I've seen said on this forum.

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Kelly went 4-12 and was sacked 43 times his 1st season.....and also threw 17 interceptions

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Allen is in a terrible situation - to say otherwise is disingenuous. Doesn't mean he won't be successful but, if you are honest, can you imagine a worse situation for a prospect? Especially a prospect who is largely considered "raw".  How this organization thought it made sense to enter the season with Allen and Peterman as the only two QBs is downright alarming. 

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