Judging Beane’s decisions so far

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, simpleman said:

All you seem to be able to contribute to a conversation are opinions and insults. How about contributing legitimate provable facts, I know a daunting task for certain people. I listed facts, and they spoke for themselves to people who have an ability to deal in reality, rather than pure faith and hope. And statements about who ran the draft in 2017 are not fact backed up by proof. Care to share statements from Pegula, Whaley or McDermott  to back up your unconfirmed assumptions? Or more crickets?

 

What's the point? You're not looking for facts. You're looking for someone to stroke your ego. That ain't gonna be me. Pound sand.

 

[blacklabel]

48 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

It would be less whining if they looked like they were actually doing any of what you state here. They seem disjointed from my perspective. They sign FAs who look lost or over their prime, at least in the preseason and on top of that they draft projections who could be stars or out of the league in 4 years. I believe we get to judge draft picks and signing of free agents real time? Or do we have to wait for some timeline in your head? When is it? 3 years? 5? Listen I love McDermott, have said it many times but I also said many times and believe Beane is a contract guy and not a scout. He's GM because McDermott wants him to be GM and not because he's earned it.

 

Yes, precisely, I have a draft prospect timeline "in my head" even though I really didn't touch on any of their picks aside from Allen. The 3-year timeline is common practice in the league. You really don't know what you have in a prospect until year three, that's what they say anyway. Clearly, some prospects show their hand one way or the other before that, but, regardless, I didn't come up with that criteria for judging prospects.

 

And what part of their plan are they not doing? They're doing exactly what they've said they would do from day one. We can make a list if that makes it easier.

 

They said...

-Any players not on board would be playing elsewhere. Check.

-They would get the cap situation under control, I won't say "check" because it's still in process but they unloaded several massive contracts given to players that were no longer worth the money they were getting.

-Find a franchise QB. Check. (Hey look at that, no "timeline in my head" on that one! Wow.)

-Build a team in their vision. Check. We can say "in progress" on this one too, if you wanna split hairs because teams are constantly building.

-Find the right players for their vision. Check. Or, again, another in progress type of endeavor but the core of their team is built around players with the same core values outline in their vision: Hard-working, team-first players more focused on helping their team win than focused on stats or personal achievements.

-Build team chemistry. Check. How many disorganized/disgruntled yet talented teams have we watched over the years? Plenty. One constant about those teams I always saw from current/former players, analysts, etc. was that they didn't seem "together" and they weren't playing for each other. Now, you have a team that considers themselves family and loves playing for each other. Lemme know the next time any other team gets fired up like they just won the big one after a journeyman backup RB/special teams guy takes a three-yard dump off and picks up a first down.

 

And they accomplish parts of these and other goals all while breaking a 17-year playoff drought. To me, I just don't see the need to nitpick and dissect every single move they make knowing how crazy the NFL can be. Not every move is a home-run, not every move is meant to be. Maybe that's what some people don't see... they see a signing of a player and if it's not a name they recognize or a position they feel is a position of need they're gonna find a way to discredit and criticize the move.

 

Again, I'll go back to the point of sustainability. This franchise has been the definition of discord and disorganization since 2000. Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan. Tom Donahoe, Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley. What do all those guys have in common? All but two of them (Jauron & Whaley) saw three years or less in their positions. Just the fact that some people feel ready to move on from this regime because they haven't yet addressed every single issue with this team is beyond me. It's quite obvious that without sustainability at the top there is no sustainability or success to flow through the entire franchise. It's cliche at this point but these are the reasons why we constantly hear "process." Takes time. Let 'em work that's all I'm saying. If not them, then what's the alternative? People always seem so ready to dump everything and clean house but rarely present a decent alternative.

 

I mean, we can go on and provide many other examples that show just how different this regime is than past ones. In any business, there's going to be wrinkles to work out, of course. But, given the absolute sh*tshows that were Rex/Whaley and St. Douggie/Whaley, McBeane is a breath of fresh air. These guys are held in very high regard by the Pegulas so clearly they're doing something right. To your last point on Beane being here only because he's McDermott's bud, I think the Carolina Panthers organization would disagree as they willfully employed him for 19 seasons and had every intention on handing him the keys after Gettleman but he took a chance to come here and build this team. On top of that, the guy gets nothing but praise and respect from fellow GM's and execs. 

 

Process.

Edited September 3, 2018 by blacklabel

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I mean, we can go on and provide many other examples that show just how different this regime is than past ones. In any business, there's going to be wrinkles to work out, of course. But, given the absolute sh*tshows that were Rex/Whaley and St. Douggie/Whaley, McBeane is a breath of fresh air. These guys are held in very high regard by the Pegulas so clearly they're doing something right. To your last point on Beane being here only because he's McDermott's bud, I think the Carolina Panthers organization would disagree as they willfully employed him for 19 seasons and had every intention on handing him the keys after Gettleman but he took a chance to come here and build this team. On top of that, the guy gets nothing but praise and respect from fellow GM's and execs. 

 

Not only that, but some of his moves were utterly brilliant. Take, for example, getting a third round pick for Tyrod Taylor when EVERYONE in the NFL knew we were cutting him. Another bright move? Getting a pick for Watkins, who they likely would have gotten nothing for just a year later. Smart.

 

Dude's a witch.

[Yeezus]

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

[Sky Diver]

He stole Foster as a UDFA.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

If McDermott was making the picks he should continue to have the same success. This year he's drafted a bunch of projects. It actually looks more like a Modrak draft than a Colbert draft.

allen and that linebacker ?

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

What's the point? You're not looking for facts. You're looking for someone to stroke your ego. That ain't gonna be me. Pound sand.

 

 

1 hour ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

and this is an issue for folks here

 it is okay to hit reset for fans !

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

The rest of the dead cap is pretty much Beane trading players away (Glenn, Tyrod - note that we had an opt out for TT contract so it's solely on Beane) or injury (Wood). 

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

His FA signing have not been impressive so far. Trent Murphy looks like a bust (at least we have an out after this season) and Star looks like a disaster. Why pay 2nd tier DT money for a guy that's not even a difference maker? His ceiling looks like place holder/rotational starter. You can do a lot better for a $50,000,000 contract. 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

It’s difficult, but it you want to be good for multiple years you need to build through the draft. 

 

Free agents should be to provide the finishing touches on the team, but the core from the team should be through draft. Just to expensive to do otherwise.

 

The only exception are teams like NE and GB. They can get away with some poor drafts because they have Brady and Rodgers to cover holes.

 

 

[Bills Pimpin']

10 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

 

Having 65 million and spending it wisely are two different things. To this point I can't say I trust Beane to make good signings. His free agents so far look like bad signing. That could change, we'll see.

Which free agent signings are you saying look bad? I hope you are not talking about any players that haven't played a real game yet. That would be ignorant.

[Batman1876]

44 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

The rest of the dead cap is pretty much Beane trading players away (Glenn, Tyrod - note that we had an opt out for TT contract so it's solely on Beane) or injury (Wood). 

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

His FA signing have not been impressive so far. Trent Murphy looks like a bust (at least we have an out after this season) and Star looks like a disaster. Why pay 2nd tier DT money for a guy that's not even a difference maker? His ceiling looks like place holder/rotational starter. You can do a lot better for a $50,000,000 contract. 

 

 

80% of our dead cap is 4 players. Darius, Tyrod, Glenn and Wood. Darius was not worth his contact and was detrimental to keep around, I think it was worth the dead cap to get him out of town and get something in return. Cordy was often hurt and was replaceable, getting 2nd rd value for him was worthwhile. And Tyrod was not an option to stay here getting a 3rd for him was a good move. Without trading Tyrod and Cordy we would have had to trade both 1sts to get a QB. I think the cap loss for 1 year was well worth it. 

[Bills Pimpin']

58 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

 

And Phillips. And Johnson. And Croom. And Foster. And Ray Ray. And Teller. And who he drafts next year (we have 10 picks at the moment) and who he drafts in 2020.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bills Pimpin'

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 9/2/2018 at 9:01 PM, Mango said:

 

Real question. With our lack of CB behind Tre, lack of pass rush, and bad LB corp. What will you think of the defense takes a step back after our “focus” on it this year? 

 

You say lack of pass rush, the season hasn't even started yet, if you're basing that from preseason most teams play a base vanilla defense trying not showing their hands  to the opponent in week 1. I will hold that thought of a lack of pass rush until some games have been played, we beefed up the DL with Phillips/Louteleilei and added Murphy at DE to go along with Tremaine Edmunds at LB and added Vontae davis at CB, I think it will take a bit for them to gel, that being said I think this defense will improve tremendously. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by BuffaloBillsGospel

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

 

 

 

Clay is still on the team because his contract has been effectively guaranteed to now...

 

Even if they cut him next year ( the last year of his deal) there  will still be a $4.5Mil hit..

 

Also, how did Whales even approach "cap hell" to begin with when we haven't had a decent QB for 20 years?

5 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

 

What they have done "historically" dont mean jack...

 

Lets give the new regime another year or two and see how they go..

Edited September 4, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Mango]

53 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

You say lack of pass rush, the season hasn't even started yet, if you're basing that from preseason most teams play a base vanilla defense trying not showing their hands  to the opponent in week 1. I will hold that thought of a lack of pass rush until some games have been played, we beefed up the DL with Phillips/Louteleilei and added Murphy at DE to go along with Tremaine Edmunds at LB and added Vontae davis at CB, I think it will take a bit for them to gel, that being said I think this defense will improve tremendously. 

 

We had issues rushing the passer last year. 

 

Phillips is a back up and isn’t ready. 

 

Star is just there to eat space. He’s also not terribly good. 

 

Tremeaine Edmunds isn’t ready

 

Vontae is bad. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

10 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

And Phillips. And Johnson. And Croom. And Foster. And Ray Ray. And Teller. And who he drafts next year (we have 10 picks at the moment) and who he drafts in 2020.

 

 

 

What's more important: drafting a guy that makes the roster in the 5th round, or hitting on the #7 overall pick after trading up for a QB? 

 

Unless one of those later picks turns into an All-Pro they are pretty much irrelevant in terms of how I'll be grading Beane. 

[oldmanfan]

He has focused on getting the two most important positions on the team:  QB and MLB.  Both these kids have the potential to be long time fixtures on the Bills.  Time will tell.

 

Otherwise, I think we now have a combination of HC and GM that are in synch, and that have a firm idea of how they intend to build a team that will be consistently good.  To do that, they have moved out some guys with large salaries they felt would not fit the idea they have for a team.  Some I agree with (such as Dareus), others I didn't (such as Watkins).  Beane and McD have hit on some FAs and missed on others, similar to what most GMs do.

 

The area I would criticize is that he has not focused more attention up front.  It was not his fault of course that Wood came up with a career ending injury, or that Richie went off the rails (although one could kind of see that coming).  But as one who has always felt you win football games up front, I am disappointed more effort has not been used to build the O line especially, and the D line (at DE specifically). 

 

I think you have to give Beane and McD a number of years to actually let their plan work or not work.  To me the constant turnover in team management since 2000 has been responsible for the long period of failure.  Let them get the players they feel they need to work their plan, and then see if their plan works.  GIve them 5 years at least.

[Bills Pimpin']

20 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

What's more important: drafting a guy that makes the roster in the 5th round, or hitting on the #7 overall pick after trading up for a QB? 

 

Unless one of those later picks turns into an All-Pro they are pretty much irrelevant in terms of how I'll be grading Beane. 

You should grade the GM and the coach on wins and losses by the team instead of the success of an individual. Not saying that the performance of Allen won't have a huge impact on the record, but the rest of the players drafted will impact it as well. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

 

We had issues rushing the passer last year. 

 

Phillips is a back up and isn’t ready. 

 

Star is just there to eat space. He’s also not terribly good. 

 

Tremeaine Edmunds isn’t ready

 

Vontae is bad. 

 

I don't agree with any of that but we all have our own opinions.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Holding off judgement until FA next year. We'll have a lot of money and we need to make a splash.

 

Tevin Coleman

Devin Funchess

Tyler Lockett

Daryl Williams 

Anthony Barr

 

[Mango]

35 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I don't agree with any of that but we all have our own opinions.

 

So we didn’t have issues rushing the passer? 

Harry is not a back up? 

Vontae is good? 

Edmunds is ready to play starting MLB in the NFL? 

Star isn’t a space eater? 

Star is also good? 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:22 AM, plenzmd1 said:

9-7 last year, playoffs, two first-round selections in the top 16...10 picks next year and over $60M in space with your presumed franchise QB under cost control for the next 5 years. 

 

Seems pretty good to me so far

 

 

I don't even need to read anything further in this thread.

 

 

This is all you need to read right here

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I want to see Beane and McDermott build a modern passing offense, and that will take time. 

 

When I hear McDermott talking about running the ball in snowy Buffalo, that doesn't match with the investment they made in rocket armed Josh Allen. At some point you would think they would want to take this offense more vertical. To do that they're going to need speed on the outside, with a real Tight End. 

 

Beane paid a premium for Allen and Edmunds, and so in the short term, those two need to be good. We spent Glenn, #12, #22, #53, #56 and #65 for Allen, Edmunds and Siran Neal.

[reddogblitz]

On 9/3/2018 at 12:09 PM, joesixpack said:

 

His preseason was pretty forgettable.

 

 

Ivory didn't play much. Made some nice plays. A good receiver. What did you expect to see? 20 carries for 101?

On 9/3/2018 at 12:19 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

Good points but I would like to add a couple of things.

1.  Spending Cap $'s in 2019.  I think Beane is patient and conservative.  It would not surprise me to see him save 20+ million

for the 2020 FA season. 

2.  2018 FA signing.  Agree with the Star Murphy points but I think Davis was nothing but a plug for this year.

 

he stays this patient and puts a losing season of two together he'll be out on his bum. I would suggest he get a sense of urgency.

Edited September 5, 2018 by reddogblitz

[reddogblitz]

On 9/3/2018 at 2:21 PM, blacklabel said:

Find a franchise QB. Check. (Hey look at that, no "timeline in my head" on that one! Wow.)

 

Definitely NOT a check at this point. They've swung. That's it.

 

What happened to the 3 year time line?

[blacklabel]

9 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Definitely NOT a check at this point. They've swung. That's it.

 

What happened to the 3 year time line?

 

CHECK!

 

I said GOOD DAY, sir!

[ColoradoBills]

12 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

 

he stays this patient and puts a losing season of two together he'll be out on his bum. I would suggest he get a sense of urgency.

 

I guess my point was I don't think he will spend that 90 million like a drunken sailor.  LOL

 

Personally I hope there are decent OL FAs available to spend some of that on.

Lots of teams looking for OL every year.

That's why I thought they needed to get at least 1 starter this year.

[CuddyDark]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 9:11 PM, Bills Pimpin' said:

Which free agent signings are you saying look bad? I hope you are not talking about any players that haven't played a real game yet. That would be ignorant.

It would be just as ignorant to say they looked like good singing in preseason or no?

[BillsfanAZ]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:55 AM, oldmanfan said:

He has focused on getting the two most important positions on the team:  QB and MLB.  Both these kids have the potential to be long time fixtures on the Bills.  Time will tell.

 

Otherwise, I think we now have a combination of HC and GM that are in synch, and that have a firm idea of how they intend to build a team that will be consistently good.  To do that, they have moved out some guys with large salaries they felt would not fit the idea they have for a team.  Some I agree with (such as Dareus), others I didn't (such as Watkins).  Beane and McD have hit on some FAs and missed on others, similar to what most GMs do.

 

The area I would criticize is that he has not focused more attention up front.  It was not his fault of course that Wood came up with a career ending injury, or that Richie went off the rails (although one could kind of see that coming).  But as one who has always felt you win football games up front, I am disappointed more effort has not been used to build the O line especially, and the D line (at DE specifically). 

 

I think you have to give Beane and McD a number of years to actually let their plan work or not work.  To me the constant turnover in team management since 2000 has been responsible for the long period of failure.  Let them get the players they feel they need to work their plan, and then see if their plan works.  GIve them 5 years at least.

I agree with what you have said...especially the 5 yr plan. The Oline needs attention but I am not sure what Beane could have done about it this offseason. The Bills chose to spend money on the Dline. Hopefully that pays off. After the high dollar  Olineman signings, the talent pool was mediocre. At that time only Wood retired. So Bodine was signed. By the time Incognito retired, the Bills couldnt do much to replace him. I think the Bills got their guys in the first three rounds of the draft. Next year will be addressing needs through the draft and free agency. 

[PeterDude]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:55 AM, Jpsredemption said:

Acquiring draft picks and then lighting them on fire. That goes for McD and Beane. They talk about draft capital and then go ahead and trade picks away.

 

I agree with this.  The previous Sabres GM did the same thing.  I'm not a fan of trading up, it's so wasteful.

[liverpoolkev]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:29 AM, CuddyDark said:

Honestly none of this has anything to do with Beane. Beane's test starts this season. It's his roster to build. His free agents and draft picks. Last years roster was 90% Whaley.

Don't blame this crap of a team on Whaley... He would never have a Tolbert or  Kelvin Benjamin basically a hurt TE as a number 1 WR.... Whaley tried to design his team using the Steelers blue print was ready to CHOOSE Deshaun Watson  but was chopped at the knees by the  pagula's  who seem to like dysfunction ie …SABRES,…..Mcbean want church going small , old  choir boys....When your GM biggest free agent grab is a hurt pass rusher in Murphy and overpaying for a D-tackle only because they went to Carolina. Lets not even start talking about the coaching staff... You wonder why the line is so bad , We had one of the best o-line  coaches in the game to a person that got the job because he knew  mcbeane....  

 

I wished this gm could trade a WHO CARE LB from the Bills for a Jerry Hughes or maybe trade a Kiko for a SHADY MCCOY...…..  I WOULD RATHER HAVE WATSON OVER A BLAKE BORTLES WANNA BE  

     

Edited September 5, 2018 by liverpoolkev

[Bills Pimpin']

2 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

It would be just as ignorant to say they looked like good singing in preseason or no?

Sure would.

[Ayjent]

1 hour ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I agree with what you have said...especially the 5 yr plan. The Oline needs attention but I am not sure what Beane could have done about it this offseason. The Bills chose to spend money on the Dline. Hopefully that pays off. After the high dollar  Olineman signings, the talent pool was mediocre. At that time only Wood retired. So Bodine was signed. By the time Incognito retired, the Bills couldnt do much to replace him. I think the Bills got their guys in the first three rounds of the draft. Next year will be addressing needs through the draft and free agency. 

To me there is a huge inconsistency in the plan getting a QB without addressing the OL at the same time or before.  What's the plan with the new QB with a crap OL?  How is that supposed to work?  I'm not saying that they shouldn't have got their QB, but addressing the OL without moving up for Edmunds would have been possible and wiser.  Edmunds and Allen have to pan out for Beane to look like he knows what he is doing because he spent a ton of draft assets on both and jettisoned a starting QB and starting level LT to get part of the ransom used for Edmunds and Allen.  They also knew that Incognito and Wood were not going to be part of the plan and they had a huge hole there at the time of the draft - at least get one interior lineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft.  To me those are self-inflicted wounds that don't build a foundation - they just replaced proven talent for unproven talent and used their stock of picks to acquire fewer players than they could have.  Sure they coveted these players, but as everyone acknowledges you never know with draft picks and having more picks means more chances to hit on a good one. 

 

The Bills drafted what they anticipate to be franchise players, but they aren't putting them in a good situation to succeed off the bat - a bad OL and thrusting a 20 yr old into the starting MLB role with a DL that gets about as much pressure as Patriots footballs.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Ayjent

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I agree with what you have said...especially the 5 yr plan. The Oline needs attention but I am not sure what Beane could have done about it this offseason. The Bills chose to spend money on the Dline. Hopefully that pays off. After the high dollar  Olineman signings, the talent pool was mediocre. At that time only Wood retired. So Bodine was signed. By the time Incognito retired, the Bills couldnt do much to replace him. I think the Bills got their guys in the first three rounds of the draft. Next year will be addressing needs through the draft and free agency. 

Remember when Buddy Nix was talking about how the Bills weren't that far away in 2010? You say all this like the Bills will get better in the draft and take other teams free agents and get better. All other 31 teams have the same avenue for growth as well. 

 

BillsfanAZ - I think you need to see that this is a complete rebuild from the ground up. There is little offensive talent on this roster, with 2 of the 3 key cogs being Whaley holdovers. 

 

Beane cashed in #12, #53, #56, #65 for Allen and Edmunds. 

 

They'll need numerous hits next year in the draft and FA to fill all those holes on this team. 

 

Years of bad drafting and purging the roster of anything Doug Whaley means we are staring at a complete rebuild. 

 

ALLEN is the only ticket for this team to really get good anytime soon. If he's not, we're a Bottom 10 team regardless of McDermott's elite culture, draft picks and cap space. 

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, Ayjent said:

To me there is a huge inconsistency in the plan getting a QB without addressing the OL at the same time or before.  What's the plan with the new QB with a crap OL?  How is that supposed to work?  I'm not saying that they shouldn't have got their QB, but addressing the OL without moving up for Edmunds would have been possible and wiser.  Edmunds and Allen have to pan out for Beane to look like he knows what he is doing because he spent a ton of draft assets on both and jettisoned a starting QB and starting level LT to get part of the ransom used for Edmunds and Allen.  They also knew that Incognito and Wood were not going to be part of the plan and they had a huge hole there at the time of the draft - at least get one interior lineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft.  To me those are self-inflicted wounds that don't build a foundation - they just replaced proven talent for unproven talent and used their stock of picks to acquire fewer players than they could have.  Sure they coveted these players, but as everyone acknowledges you never know with draft picks and having more picks means more chances to hit on a good one. 

 

The Bills drafted what they anticipate to be franchise players, but they aren't putting them in a good situation to succeed off the bat - a bad OL and thrusting a 20 yr old into the starting MLB role with a DL that gets about as much pressure as Patriots footballs.

So are you saying the Bills shouldnt have moved up to get two players that were ranked in the top ten overall? Should they have given up their first next year instead of the draft capital this year? You cant move up to get a potential starting QB without paying for it. Beane made all his moves so he was able to move up to get a QB. You cant fix a whole team in one offseason. 

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Remember when Buddy Nix was talking about how the Bills weren't that far away in 2010? You say all this like the Bills will get better in the draft and take other teams free agents and get better. All other 31 teams have the same avenue for growth as well. 

 

BillsfanAZ - I think you need to see that this is a complete rebuild from the ground up. There is little offensive talent on this roster, with 2 of the 3 key cogs being Whaley holdovers. 

 

Beane cashed in #12, #53, #56, #65 for Allen and Edmunds. 

 

They'll need numerous hits next year in the draft and FA to fill all those holes on this team. 

 

Years of bad drafting and purging the roster of anything Doug Whaley means we are staring at a complete rebuild. 

 

ALLEN is the only ticket for this team to really get good anytime soon. If he's not, we're a Bottom 10 team regardless of McDermott's elite culture, draft picks and cap space. 

If Allen and Edmonds grow into great players then nobody will care what was given up for them. I would rather they traded some 2nd and 3rd picks to get two top ten players rather than have one top player and three other players that are down in the rankings at their position.  The Bills were not going to get their future QB and rebuild an offense in one offseason...might not even be able to do it in two. Next year they will have a lot of cap room and extra picks to improve the roster.

[Bing Bong]

On 9/2/2018 at 8:31 AM, Rc2catch said:

I kinda get the sense people want to run this guy out of town already without even being close to the finished product.

Because the current product isn't good Bob! 

[Rc2catch]

1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Because the current product isn't good Bob! 

 

Why? Cause you don’t think so? Cause national media writers don’t think so? 

They haven’t played a game this year, haven’t played the season out. How can you judge, or grade the team assembled without them even playing? After trades etc etc last season most thought they were bottom of the league. 

So how can you say the product isn’t good? 

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:22 AM, plenzmd1 said:

9-7 last year, playoffs, two first-round selections in the top 16...10 picks next year and over $60M in space with your presumed franchise QB under cost control for the next 5 years. 

 

Seems pretty good to me so far

Agree, so far I like the direction we are headed. We can start addressing trenches in drafts. Start building, not chasing a franchise qb. (If allen works out obviously)

[Ayjent]

16 hours ago, BillsfanAZ said:

So are you saying the Bills shouldnt have moved up to get two players that were ranked in the top ten overall? Should they have given up their first next year instead of the draft capital this year? You cant move up to get a potential starting QB without paying for it. Beane made all his moves so he was able to move up to get a QB. You cant fix a whole team in one offseason. 

If Allen and Edmonds grow into great players then nobody will care what was given up for them. I would rather they traded some 2nd and 3rd picks to get two top ten players rather than have one top player and three other players that are down in the rankings at their position.  The Bills were not going to get their future QB and rebuild an offense in one offseason...might not even be able to do it in two. Next year they will have a lot of cap room and extra picks to improve the roster.

I'm saying that they shouldn't have done both.  The move for the QB I understand.  The move for Edmunds I don't - first he is really young and there were glaring defects in his game at VT - it's not like he was wrecking opposing teams offense on the regular.  Second, he is a combine workout warrior at this point - looks the physical part, with a ton of upside (not realized yet) - but as you can see his athleticism is his crutch and he needs to be much better at diagnosing the action after the snap.   Third, the investment in the QB makes a lot less sense when you don't address glaring needs on the line that you could have and how is he supposed to develop with poor protection.  We are not talking about low tier draft picks that they gave up, we are talking about picks that commonly result in good quality starting players, especially for interior linemen.

 

My point is that everyone wants to say rebuilding, but the deficiencies on the OL could have been addressed, but they thought having a 20 yr old MLB thrust into a starting role with basically no competition was a better choice.  Hey maybe Edmunds ends up being a perennial all pro, and I hope he does.  But this is an offense driven league and they only thing that's happened to the Offense since McDermott has been hired is that it has progressive gotten worse - they have hope that Allen will be better than Tyrod, but as of right now that is not the case.  The WR position outside of Benjamin is a joke.  McCoy is getting older.  The OL is a mess.  TE is probably the only position that they are marginally improved at with better depth.  Are you saying that Beane couldn't have done a better job on the Offensive side of the ball this offseason?

14 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Agree, so far I like the direction we are headed. We can start addressing trenches in drafts. Start building, not chasing a franchise qb. (If allen works out obviously)

Pegula run teams have a good track record with setting themselves up with young unproven talent, good draft picks and money, right?  This isn't the NBA where you make a run on good players in FA.  You have to keep a solid core of talent as much as possible, because it takes a lot of luck and effort to rebuild an NFL team from the ground up.  If the Bills had a lot of really good young guys coming out of their rookie contracts the cap room would be great, but they really don't have that issue unless they want to keep Benjamin.  So what will they do go crazy in FA where teams always overpay for players and put themselves back in to the same predicament they just got out of?  How have the FA signings gone so far under Beane - who is a steal?  Poyer and Hyde were good pickups but those happened before Beane and the rest are highly questionable outside of finding Murphy.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Ayjent

[HappyDays]

45 minutes ago, Ayjent said:

My point is that everyone wants to say rebuilding, but the deficiencies on the OL could have been addressed, but they thought having a 20 yr old MLB thrust into a starting role with basically no competition was a better choice. 

 

They know they aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. They got their hopeful franchise QB and MLB now to give them a year of experience before we are ready to seriously compete. I expect Edmunds to make rookie mistakes this season but that's fine, we can afford that right now. If Peterman doesn't improbably take the league by storm Allen will probably play in the back half of the season and get some on-field experience of his own. This season is about preparing for the future. Next year we have a full draft and $65 million in cap space to fix our holes.

[Ayjent]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

They know they aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. They got their hopeful franchise QB and MLB now to give them a year of experience before we are ready to seriously compete. I expect Edmunds to make rookie mistakes this season but that's fine, we can afford that right now. If Peterman doesn't improbably take the league by storm Allen will probably play in the back half of the season and get some on-field experience of his own. This season is about preparing for the future. Next year we have a full draft and $65 million in cap space to fix our holes.

Still not sure how they are going to address the holes without getting into the same issues they just purged themselves of.  They already sunk a good amount of money into Star and I'm not sure that is an upgrade at the position. 

 

The draft picks take time to develop and the FAs are overpriced cap eaters - so they need to better than average with the draft picks for this to work.  Lots of hubris in the way they gutted the team - lets see if they can follow through.  I'm skeptical about it that's all.  I also think that people thought that they would address a lot of holes this year with all of the picks - let's see what they do next year. 

 

It's not like this team was in a terrible place when Beane and McDermott took over - it had cap issues with big contracts, but it wasn't barren of talent and there was a decent core of players.  Last year was a testament to that - because the remaining players that weren't shipped off were the main contributors of the team.  Now there are even less of those guys and you'd be hard pressed to say they've improved the talent or even back filled a lot of it with stellar picks or marquee FAs.  Having all of that cap room - how do you see them spending it?

Edited September 6, 2018 by Ayjent