Cover1 breaks down Allen's last drive against the Panthers

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Because it was the right read. Clock running that is a half field read. Depending how that CB plays that two man route combo thats where the ball goes. 

 

Sorry that was the right read. 

No it wasn't. Allen might be the only QB in the NFL that can even fit that in, doesn't make it right. 

[Sky Diver]

Loved his pocket presence and his ability to move in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Sky Diver

[MAJBobby]

12 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

No it wasn't. Allen might be the only QB in the NFL that can even fit that in, doesn't make it right. 

 

That is a standard double read to the short side. Most QBs would take the short out breaking route to get out of bounds and stop the clock. 

 

Allen and his arm allow the second read. With a running clock that play design is for an out of bounds clock stopping out or an incomplete or TD. 

 

His Arm allows that route concept. 

 

I got it you are used to QBs on the Bills taking the safe easy pass. So it brings a bias. 

 

 

Let me put it this way do you want a QB to keep holding the ball looking for a more open WR than a WR that is in a window but a harder throw to make earlier in their progression?

Edited August 13, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

No it wasn't. Allen might be the only QB in the NFL that can even fit that in, doesn't make it right. 

 

That doesn't make it wrong either.  It's like you're saying Allen shouldn't use his God given arm to all it's potential.

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That doesn't make it wrong either.  It's like you're saying Allen shouldn't use his God given arm to all it's potential.

 

In the video there was likely one read I take an ahhh comeone Allen take the easy 7 yards. And that was pushing it to Preohl I think when TE was open in the flat to get 7 and get out of bounds. 

 

That and on the two point when he tried to break the pocket to his right. He should have broke it to the two man route concept to really keep the play alive. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by MAJBobby

[HappyDays]

9 hours ago, sven233 said:

That said, while I haven't been to every single practice, I have seen him practice and have watched his half multiple times against Carolina watching nothing but his footwork at times and I came away surprised how much better his base looked.  And while he still has a ways to go, in my opinion, he is much further along at this point than I thought he could get to since his college season ended.  This shows me the guy works at it and takes coaching well which is very important.

 

Count me into the eating crow group. Maybe Jordan Palmer really is a QB guru. I had the same thoughts on you from his college tape, that his arm was great but his footwork was too messy to be worth it. He's come a long way in just a few months. I can only imagine what he could be in a couple years.

3 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Not sure why Cover1 accepts the read on the TD. That was a low % attempt. The coverage should have lead Allen to the middle of the field. Hopefully Bills coaches don't accept that read.

 

He explained that it was a half field read, and by the time Proehl broke open Allen was already releasing the ball. I'm not going to criticize that TD. It wasn't a fluke or anything, it was just a great pump fake and throw. The one throw Erik criticized was the incompletion to Proehl downfield when Allen could have just checked down to a TE. But that's a way easier mistake to fix than trying to teach him to take chances downfield. If that's the worst thing you can point to in his first preseason game that's a really promising start.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I mean it's his 1st live action. Next week we'll throw this out and dissect game 2. 

[Chandler#81]

This is brilliant. Daboll’s schemes and this kids’ moxie are a match made in football Heaven. It’s no anomaly the Bills have by far the oldest RB group in the League. Their knowledge and savvy are on display with the chipping and accurate route running -and the youngins’ are learning from it! 

 

That shoulder dip though.. ?

[maryland-bills-fan]

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

You really need to expound upon this.

Simple.

Haters gonna Hate.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

Simple.

Haters gonna Hate.

It's so illogical, though.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

Just now, joesixpack said:

It's so illogical, though.

 

 

Yeah, but if I could ban every illogical poster, what would we have here?

 

WAIT! ?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

No it wasn't. Allen might be the only QB in the NFL that can even fit that in, doesn't make it right. 

 

If you take what Cover 1 said as truth, it was a half-field read, and Proehl wasn't even part of it. Nevertheless, Proehl wasn't open until Allen released the ball.

 

[zevo]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

If you take what Cover 1 said as truth, it was a half-field read, and Proehl wasn't even part of it. Nevertheless, Proehl wasn't open until Allen released the ball.

 

Dan orlovsky who has been an Allen hater since day 1 states he should have thrown in to Proehl.....my response is...if you have the talent and can make the throw that he did...who the !@#$ cares how you got the TD. Unbelievable that the Allen haters will find anything possible to to keep him down.

[TH3]

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Because it's true. If you get excited about him fitting it between defenders when the simple read was right in front of him then you're being biased. I don't want him to make that throw, I want him to recognize the wide open read based on the defense. 

I'm going to critique his play and strive for perfection. That was his 1st live action in the NFL. He won't be remembered for preseason week 1.

 

So ....rookie in his first play in the second half of a preseason game....would you ...as a builder of a team...rather see your number 1 pick make the "wrong choice" and show an insane amount of arm talent and make a play likely only one other guy in the NFL can make - maybe - ....or....demonstrate that he can't make that play and look for a safer throw...

 

I would rather have the first as you can't teach that type of arm....but you can teach reading the field....

 

We had a guy for the last three years that looked and waited for the perfect risk free pass.....

[Bring it]

That td pass to McCloud was either crazy or crazy good!! Did he just get lucky? Maybe that it wasn’t tipped yeah. But not the throw itself. Pinpoint and it got there before the def. could react. Allen has an elite arm in terms of strength. Now can he be consistent with it? Man I hope so! Because I want to see more of that for the next 10 - 15 years. 

[ChasBB]

11 hours ago, beerme1 said:

11 hours ago, beerme1 said:

Personally I would have released Foster after the game based on his play. Harsh yes but giving up on a play deserves harshness.

Have to agree with you.  Plus, Foster didn't lay out earlier and at least try to get that early ball that would have been a TD.  Yes, overthrown a bit, but really would have liked to see more effort to go after that ball from Foster.

 

[fansince88]

37 minutes ago, Bring it said:

That td pass to McCloud was either crazy or crazy good!! Did he just get lucky? Maybe that it wasn’t tipped yeah. But not the throw itself. Pinpoint and it got there before the def. could react. Allen has an elite arm in terms of strength. Now can he be consistent with it? Man I hope so! Because I want to see more of that for the next 10 - 15 years. 

17 to 18.....

[Ralonzo]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

(although what he did on that 4th down play should never happen again). 

 

It's hilarious that this play is the #1 takeaway on Allen around the country. People are saying "Gotta throw that one away"... sure, give yourself a chance on 5th down, right?

 

It's almost a shame that the Friday game is national. I'd love for every non-Bills fan to sleep on Allen and file him away as the next Peterman.

[Magnetar]

14 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I don't think anyone can watch that throw to Lee and honestly say that Allen is inaccurate. Inconsistant? Yes. Not inaccurate. 

 

Hmm, consistency is a component of accuracy, both of which are components of completion percentage. (Along with other circumstances like receivers dropping balls, poor OL blocking, etc)

 

If Allen cannot become more consistent, then his accuracy will not improve, and neither will his completion percentage.

 

"Accuracy" for an NFL QB (In terms of them being a starter or not) is not measured on a per pass basis.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Magnetar

[wppete]

 

[sven233]

12 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

This is nice to see people eating crow already after only one half with the 3s. I say this as someone who openly loved that we picked Josh Allen. That arm man. That arm. So I'm glad to see that Bills fans that were against the pick and there were so many of you, it's good to know that at the end of teh day you're still Bills fans ands will root for this guy who may frustrate you one moment, and then amaze you the next. That arm man. That arm. 

 

 

 

Personally I would have released Foster after the game based on his play. Harsh yes but giving up on a play deserves harshness.

 

 

 

Hmm, more crow. I like that. But you have more history than most if you were really paying attention to him in college. So your comments are awesome to me! 

 

 

Crow might be a tad strong.  He hasn't done anything yet in the NFL.  It's way too early to tell.  I was just making an objective observation in where he seems to be at now as compared to where he was in college because I did watch all of his games.  That's all.  He hasn't proven anything yet.  That said, I like the track he is on and, in my opinion, seems to be ahead of where I thought he would be at this time.  And nobody is more happy about that than me, along with every Bills fan out there, is.

 

And also, just to be clear, I said on multiple occasions that Allen may indeed be the best QB to come out of this draft.  He was, by far, the most naturally gifted and talented.  But he also had the furthest to go in terms of being NFL ready based on his college games.  With the terrible QB play that we have been witnessing for the last 20 years, I would have preferred someone a little more NFL ready at the time because I just want to finally watch a real NFL offense.  With the little we have see to this point, it looks like we may finally get that.  And the sooner Allen can be the one pulling the trigger, the better for all of us.

Edited August 13, 2018 by sven233

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I don't think anyone can watch that throw to Lee and honestly say that Allen is inaccurate. Inconsistant? Yes. Not inaccurate. 

 

How about that 30 yard dart to an outbreaking wr in stride?  

 

Very nice 

[BigBuff423]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

As always, Cover 1 does an excellent job with this video.

As someone who was an admitted "anyone but Allen!" guy, I can't deny that Josh Allen has absolutely other-worldy talent. Off the charts. The arm might be the strongest we've EVER seen in the NFL, and that's not an exaggeration.

But ya know what I REALLY like about Allen? He's fearless. He has absolutely 0% hesitation in him when he thinks he can make a throw. Now yes, that IS going to get him into trouble at times and cause some frustrating turnovers. But when he's right -- and make no mistake about it, his physical talent allows him to complete throws that he shouldn't even be ATTEMPTING -- it's a sight to behold. You can't teach guts and fearlessness at the QB position. You either have it or you don't. Allen has it.

 

hmmmm, sounds like another Bills QB at one point in time....

[Bruce_Stools]

5 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Because it's true. If you get excited about him fitting it between defenders when the simple read was right in front of him then you're being biased. I don't want him to make that throw, I want him to recognize the wide open read based on the defense. 

I'm going to critique his play and strive for perfection. That was his 1st live action in the NFL. He won't be remembered for preseason week 1.

It really sounds like you're the one that has a bias towards Allen.  He threw a TD that basically no other qb is gonna make, in an insanely tight window, into double coverage.

 

Yea, he really shouldn't have got that TD.  He should've thrown it away since he didn't see the open man. Who needs points?

[Dan]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

In the video there was likely one read I take an ahhh comeone Allen take the easy 7 yards. And that was pushing it to Preohl I think when TE was open in the flat to get 7 and get out of bounds. 

 

That and on the two point when he tried to break the pocket to his right. He should have broke it to the two man route concept to really keep the play alive. 

I agree with you... those were the only 2 plays on that drive, that I thought he really made t wrong decision.  On the incredible touchdown, the entire play was designed to go to that side of the field.   I'm sure that's not exactly how the play is designed, but it worked.  

 

2 point I'd like to make.  First is on the throw downfield when he could have easily taken the TE underneath for a small gain; its nice sometimes to have a QB thinking downfield and not...always...taking the easy underneath stuff. No it doesn't always work out.  But, it forces the defense to defend the entire field, every receiever.  Because they know Allen has the arm to get it there... And he'll try! 

 

For how long have had a safe, always take what the defense gives you kinda QB?  How long have we wished for a QB that would make a throw ans give is WRs a chance?   And for how long have we been mediocre.  All good QBs have to take those chances some times.  I'm glad Allen did!

 

Secondly, we've all been conditioned for too long that interceptions are bad. Don't throw an interception, take what the defense gives you.  Be safe with the ball.  Every good QB throws picks!  Every one.  Rare do you see the 300+ yard games with no interceptions.  Interceptions are going to happen.  Its ok.   The key is ..is he a Fitzy interception magchine (always make the bad pass on the final drive of the game when all you need is a FG)? Or is he gettign ints trying to make plays but at the critical time, being smart and getting the yards?    Me.. I don't mind ints so much, if he's pushing the ball downfield, forcing the defense to defend every route, and setting them up for later drives.   That's going to happen and its not all bad.

 

I was really encouraged watching him in that game.   With that all said... I find myself repeatedly saying... Its only 1 preseason game.  Let him stay on the sideline and learn for now.   Especially, if AJ and Peterman continue playing like they did ...in 1 preseason game.

 

[Cash]

16 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I don't think anyone can watch that throw to Lee and honestly say that Allen is inaccurate. Inconsistant? Yes. Not inaccurate. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I think that's kind of a cheat and/or strawman.  No rational person thinks that an inaccurate QB is incapable of ever putting the ball where he wants to; just that that doesn't happen consistently.  So one great throw doesn't do a lot to quell those worries.  

 

Having said that, I went back and re-watched the supercut of all of Allen's throws from the Panthers game.  Three were especially bad, and probably about the same were especially good.  The rest were mediocre: a combo of "good throw, but it was easy and to a stationary target" (a la EJ) and "catchable ball, but the receiver had to adjust for it" (a la Tyrod).  Not a terrible start, nor a great one.

[JimKellyTryouts]

3 hours ago, zevo said:

Dan orlovsky who has been an Allen hater since day 1 states he should have thrown in to Proehl.....my response is...if you have the talent and can make the throw that he did...who the !@#$ cares how you got the TD. Unbelievable that the Allen haters will find anything possible to to keep him down.

 

 

Are you maybe referring to an older post or Benjamin Albright instead? Here, Orlovsky compliments Allen for recognizing the coverage and making the pump fake.

[WhoTom]

5 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

No it wasn't. Allen might be the only QB in the NFL that can even fit that in, doesn't make it right. 

 

Einstein might have been the only physicist in the world who could have conceived Relativity Theory. Should he have pursued a more traditional branch of physics?

 

If the analysis is correct and the play was designed to go to the right, then that was the first read in his progression. If the first read is open (NFL open, not college open), then you don't look at the other reads. He saw a makeable play and had the presence of mind to pump-fake the CB and fit the ball into a tight window, perfectly placed where only the receiver could catch it. It was ballsy but not reckless. It was a first down play. If it goes incomplete, the clock stops and you get three more chances. Low-risk, high-reward. What's not to like?

 

[dpberr]

I've never seen a QB throw a ball so effortlessly in a pro game.  Those balls were thrown with pepper.  

 

To his credit, he and the Bills are proving me wrong already.  I labeled him as nothing more than a modern day Jeff George.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

Einstein might have been the only physicist in the world who could have conceived Relativity Theory. Should he have pursued a more traditional branch of physics?

 

If the analysis is correct and the play was designed to go to the right, then that was the first read in his progression. If the first read is open (NFL open, not college open), then you don't look at the other reads. He saw a makeable play and had the presence of mind to pump-fake the CB and fit the ball into a tight window, perfectly placed where only the receiver could catch it. It was ballsy but not reckless. It was a first down play. If it goes incomplete, the clock stops and you get three more chances. Low-risk, high-reward. What's not to like?

 

It wasn't open. 

[BB@Shooter]

7 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

There were a couple other times he threw into coverage when down and distance said check down and take 5-10 yards. 

You need to let it go. You try and come off as this highly intelligent football mind, but in all actuality you want to still act like you are right about the Bills not drafting the guy you wanted. He is a rookie in his 1st game with guys all around him who were coming up short. But you want to hold him to higher standards? Let the hate go. It shows up in almost every post of yours about Allen. It is embarrasing.

 

If you didn't notice, when he did the check downs like you wanted him to do, the spacing on the receivers was terrible. They were all grouped around the line. I don't know if it was by design or not, but the people on check downs need to float towards free space. Or another thought, maybe Carolina did a good job of taking them away. Armchair qb's are great about picking it apart the day after.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

You need to let it go. You try and come off as this highly intelligent football mind, but in all actuality you want to still act like you are right about the Bills not drafting the guy you wanted. He is a rookie in his 1st game with guys all around him who were coming up short. But you want to hold him to higher standards? Let the hate go. It shows up in almost every post of yours about Allen. It is embarrasing.

 

If you didn't notice, when he did the check downs like you wanted him to do, the spacing on the receivers was terrible. They were all grouped around the line. I don't know if it was by design or not, but the people on check downs need to float towards free space. Or another thought, maybe Carolina did a good job of taking them away. Armchair qb's are great about picking it apart the day after.

I don't care about what happened last game. Moved on from it. Now I want to see progress. I didn't need to see a perfect game from him. Hopefully he builds off that game. 

 

As I said in another thread after week 1 of preseason I'm glad we have Allen instead of Rosen. 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[BB@Shooter]

2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It wasn't open. 

It wasn't open to an armchair qb at least. It was caught and called a TD wasn't it? Maybe someone needs to offer themselves up as a qb coach for the Bills. They seem to know it all.

[bdutton]

18:10 you see a Bills receiver break right over the middle of the endzone with both safeties breaking in opposite directions.  WIDE OPEN.  Allen had an easy touchdown but got away with making a tight throw to the receiver well covered on the corner.

[BB@Shooter]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I don't care about what happened last game. Moved on from it. Now I want to see progress. 

 

 

If you moved on from it, it must have happened in a very short period. So is there a time frame when we just disregard whatever you happened to post earlier? That way I would know not to take what you wrote as the final word on all qb related issues. Just give Allen some time, he will make mistakes, but he is progressing. From everything I read is everyone wants Allen to not be Tyrod, thus not checkdown. He didn't checkdown, and got a TD. All is good.

[Sky Diver]

14 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

This is nice to see people eating crow already after only one half with the 3s. I say this as someone who openly loved that we picked Josh Allen. That arm man. That arm. So I'm glad to see that Bills fans that were against the pick and there were so many of you, it's good to know that at the end of teh day you're still Bills fans ands will root for this guy who may frustrate you one moment, and then amaze you the next. That arm man. That arm. 

 

 

 

Personally I would have released Foster after the game based on his play. Harsh yes but giving up on a play deserves harshness.

 

 

 

Hmm, more crow. I like that. But you have more history than most if you were really paying attention to him in college. So your comments are awesome to me! 

 

 

Release a guy that caught a 60 yrd bomb and barely missed another that was just out of his grasp? Slightly better throws and we have two TDs.

 

You did see him blow by two veteran CBs, right?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

It wasn't open to an armchair qb at least. It was caught and called a TD wasn't it? Maybe someone needs to offer themselves up as a qb coach for the Bills. They seem to know it all.

Sorry that I like QBs that throw to open WR's rather than believe they can make a throw between 3 defenders. There is a time for that throw, that wasn't the time. It worked, which shows his talent. Had he pumped and then came back to Prohel it would have been much more impressive to me. But who cares what I think. I'm not sure why people keep commenting at me. It's a preseason game we won't remember in a few days. 

 

[whatdrought]

36 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

I get what you're saying, but I think that's kind of a cheat and/or strawman.  No rational person thinks that an inaccurate QB is incapable of ever putting the ball where he wants to; just that that doesn't happen consistently.  So one great throw doesn't do a lot to quell those worries.  

 

 

 

Like I said, Inconsistent. 

 

Inaccurate means that he cannot put the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there. He obviously can. Inconsistent means that he can't do it (or struggles to do it) on a consistent basis. 

 

The problem with those who quote his completion % and use it to prove that he's inaccurate, is that that speaks towards his consistency. If he can throw the ball accurately from anywhere and in any situation (which he does) then the issue is consistency.

 

the reason that this is important, and the reason for my initial post, is that Accuracy is a talent while consistency is a skill. Talent is born, skill is learned. 

[Bing Bong]

i'm ecstatic about Josh Allen rn

10 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Sorry that I like QBs that throw to open WR's rather than believe they can make a throw between 3 defenders. There is a time for that throw, that wasn't the time. It worked, which shows his talent. Had he pumped and then came back to Prohel it would have been much more impressive to me. But who cares what I think. I'm not sure why people keep commenting at me. It's a preseason game we won't remember in a few days. 

 

I agree that looked like a 4th and goal gamewinning desparation throw touchdown. Great TD, but he was jonesing to score on that play a little too much when I

m pretty dure some good DBs.. Chris Harris Jr. would have intercepted that.

 

Whatever. Loved his play. Didn't evaluate everybody's QBR, but Josh Allen just looked head and shoulders more talented by a mile.

Edited August 13, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks