Why Do the Bills Need a New Stadium ??

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Never heard of making an envelope with a napkin?

https://www.instructables.com/id/Envelope-Napkin-Fold/

 

We do it fairly often and even paper napkins of sufficient strength work.

 

Did you add the personalized card?

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, 145B4IDIE said:

moisture content is critical with a napkin envelope

So if you spent all morning drinking crappy beer and eating most likely not very well cooked food.

 

Would a napkin envelope hold up to that?

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Did you add the personalized card?

 

I knew I forgot something!

[Jauronimo]

My number one priority for the new stadium is infrastructure and measures to prevent people from weaponizing their own feces. 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

So if you spent all morning drinking crappy beer and eating most likely not very well cooked food.

 

Would a napkin envelope hold up to that?

 

I do not know. You would be a better judge.

 

Only beer I drank (one) I brought with me and only thing I had to eat before game was uncooked.

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

My number one priority for the new stadium is infrastructure and measures to prevent people from weaponizing their own feces. 

 

Well I am sure yours have a lot more potential for damage being an expert at crap.

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not know. You would be a better judge.

 

Only beer I drank (one) I brought with me and only thing I had to eat before game was uncooked.

 

Well I am sure yours have a lot more potential for damage being an expert at crap.

 

You're pretty condescending for a man who shat in his own hand for revenge

[Mike in Horseheads]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I knew I forgot something!

Is your name Steve?

[Aussie Joe]

Wow...

 

Thats one crappy story..

[TheFunPolice]

A new stadium would do plenty to increase revenue streams, even if open air. The weather in WNY is beautiful most of football season. For all the talk of "snow games" it almost never actually snows for home Bills games.

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes suck the life out of the game. College football somehow makes do with outdoor stadiums that in many cases hold more people than NFL stadiums do. The irony of these arguments against football being played outdoors is that the NHL, the most backward of all leagues, has as one of its premier products the outdoor games. People go outside in the winter for large events all the time. Look at New Year's Eve, when it's freezing cold and people are outside downtown for a solid 6 hours or more. The weather argument is bunk.

 

A new stadium means new bells and whistles that will attract people. It's Bills football in WNY, and they might even be building a truly good team. Let's not put the game inside of some airplane hangar with no soul. Football needs to be played outdoors, in the weather. Can you imagine a Buffalo team going to NE* or Cleveland or Chicago or NJ and not being able to play in the cold?

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

A new stadium would do plenty to increase revenue streams, even if open air. The weather in WNY is beautiful most of football season. For all the talk of "snow games" it almost never actually snows for home Bills games.

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes suck the life out of the game. College football somehow makes do with outdoor stadiums that in many cases hold more people than NFL stadiums do. The irony of these arguments against football being played outdoors is that the NHL, the most backward of all leagues, has as one of its premier products the outdoor games. People go outside in the winter for large events all the time. Look at New Year's Eve, when it's freezing cold and people are outside downtown for a solid 6 hours or more. The weather argument is bunk.

 

A new stadium means new bells and whistles that will attract people. It's Bills football in WNY, and they might even be building a truly good team. Let's not put the game inside of some airplane hangar with no soul. Football needs to be played outdoors, in the weather. Can you imagine a Buffalo team going to NE* or Cleveland or Chicago or NJ and not being able to play in the cold?

 

 

College football is a different business model altogether. They don’t pay their players , and the live product appeals to drunken college students. Some on limited budgets. The outdoor NHL game is simply a novelty. Buffalo weather is brutal from about November on, and many folks who could afford to pay high prices to attend simply don’t want to go to that facility. Anyway, I’m not the one who would need convincing and neither of our opinions on the matter amount to much. The Bills may very well decide they’d like a new open -air stadium. I was merely pointing out the limiting factors and why they might feel a climate controlled environment is the way to go. It all depends on what their business model is or what they’d like it to be. Money will be the main driver in this, and a large market would be ignored in a stadium exposed to the elements. The Bills may or may not care about that. 

[Pete]

We don't need a new stadium.  It's a Ponzi scheme to steal from tax payers and get the people on top of the pyramid more $

[RochesterRob]

17 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

A new stadium would do plenty to increase revenue streams, even if open air. The weather in WNY is beautiful most of football season. For all the talk of "snow games" it almost never actually snows for home Bills games.

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes suck the life out of the game. College football somehow makes do with outdoor stadiums that in many cases hold more people than NFL stadiums do. The irony of these arguments against football being played outdoors is that the NHL, the most backward of all leagues, has as one of its premier products the outdoor games. People go outside in the winter for large events all the time. Look at New Year's Eve, when it's freezing cold and people are outside downtown for a solid 6 hours or more. The weather argument is bunk.

 

A new stadium means new bells and whistles that will attract people. It's Bills football in WNY, and they might even be building a truly good team. Let's not put the game inside of some airplane hangar with no soul. Football needs to be played outdoors, in the weather. Can you imagine a Buffalo team going to NE* or Cleveland or Chicago or NJ and not being able to play in the cold?

 

 

  The NFL is targeting Richie Rich for its new customer base who will not sit open air below 60 degrees or endure precipitation.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Pete said:

We don't need a new stadium.  It's a Ponzi scheme to steal from tax payers and get the people on top of the pyramid more $

You are correct about one thing. WE don’t need a new stadium. The Bills may want or need it however, and that’s what will decide if this happens or not. Fans will likely not have any say in the outcome. 

[Gugny]

21 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

A new stadium would do plenty to increase revenue streams, even if open air. The weather in WNY is beautiful most of football season. For all the talk of "snow games" it almost never actually snows for home Bills games.

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes suck the life out of the game. College football somehow makes do with outdoor stadiums that in many cases hold more people than NFL stadiums do. The irony of these arguments against football being played outdoors is that the NHL, the most backward of all leagues, has as one of its premier products the outdoor games. People go outside in the winter for large events all the time. Look at New Year's Eve, when it's freezing cold and people are outside downtown for a solid 6 hours or more. The weather argument is bunk.

 

A new stadium means new bells and whistles that will attract people. It's Bills football in WNY, and they might even be building a truly good team. Let's not put the game inside of some airplane hangar with no soul. Football needs to be played outdoors, in the weather. Can you imagine a Buffalo team going to NE* or Cleveland or Chicago or NJ and not being able to play in the cold?

 

 

 

Wins attract more people.

 

The Bills could play in the crappiest stadium in football.  If they were good, they'd sell out consistently.  It's not like they're in Miami or LA.  It's Buffalo.  Good football will pack the house, regardless of bells and whistles.

 

I agree with @Pete.  It's all about making the rich richer.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Wins attract more people.

 

The Bills could play in the crappiest stadium in football.  If they were good, they'd sell out consistently.  It's not like they're in Miami or LA.  It's Buffalo.  Good football will pack the house, regardless of bells and whistles.

 

I agree with @Pete.  It's all about making the rich richer.

It’s not about attracting more people. It’s about attracting the right people. That means more expensive tickets, and less of them overall. It means more amenities to charge for. You can’t build a business model around winning, because it’s not guaranteed that you’ll be able to win. You are selling a gameday experience, even to fans of the opponent . The tickets sell now anyway. They just can’t charge much more for them when the experience is the same, and customers have to endure exposure to the elements. It’s about making more money, not selling more tickets. 

[Pete]

Newer is not always better.  For example I much prefer the old Yankee stadium to the new.  The new one has no soul IMO.  And the Giants/Jets stadium is a dump!  Who the hell designed that monstrosity?  

[Jauronimo]

19 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Wins attract more people.

 

The Bills could play in the crappiest stadium in football.  If they were good, they'd sell out consistently.  It's not like they're in Miami or LA.  It's Buffalo.  Good football will pack the house, regardless of bells and whistles.

 

I agree with @Pete.  It's all about making the rich richer.

They do play in the crappiest stadium in the NFL and they do sell out many games.

 

Stadiums, like all structures, have a useful life.  At a certain point on the cost curve the upkeep of retrofitting and renovating an old stadium becomes less economically sound than a new build.

[145B4IDIE]

an open-air stadium would be beneficial to all the pooping

[4_kidd_4]

1 hour ago, JMF2006 said:

Just wrong.

 

We are witnessing the de evolution of humanity☠️

 

DEVO is right!

 

I mean seriously, sink-pissing is one thing, but hand-pooping is just...I don’t even know.

 

 

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Went to the game in Arizona when I was working in California and while it looks impressive not all seats are.  The seat I was sold was called "obstructed view" (which usually means you cannot see scoreboard or something high) but it wasn't.  It was blocked view. There was no way for me to be able to sit and watch game.  After a quarter I got up and became a hobo sitting whenever I saw a seat unoccupied until owner got back.  For $500 million I expect every seat sold to be able to see the game.

I havent sat in the seats you are talking about and didnt know they had them. My wife is a die hard 49ers fan so we go to that game every season so I have to wear a 49ers hat for a day. We usually sit in the lower section and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I like being able to walk around the concource, be able to see the field and not be nut to butt with the person in front of me. The bathroom lines go quickly, and there is every type of food or drink you want. 

[RiotAct]

9 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I havent sat in the seats you are talking about and didnt know they had them. My wife is a die hard 49ers fan so we go to that game every season so I have to wear a 49ers hat for a day. We usually sit in the lower section and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I like being able to walk around the concource, be able to see the field and not be nut to butt with the person in front of me. The bathroom lines go quickly, and there is every type of food or drink you want. 

that... actually sounds a lot like New Era Field.

 

Well, besides maybe the “every type of food or drink” part, but IMO NEF offers enough in that aspect.

 

EDIT: and the whole open concourse thing. But besides that....

Edited August 13, 2018 by RiotAct

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

 

You're pretty condescending for a man who shat in his own hand for revenge

 

Oh is that how you do it? I did it wrong.

[145B4IDIE]

AZ, whipped?

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Oh is that how you do it? I did it wrong.

How did you do it then?

 

Please walk us through the process from entering the bathroom until delivery of the payload in detail.  I must know!

[145B4IDIE]

Club seats now are cheaper than end-zones will be with a new stadium

[Punching Bag]

20 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

How did you do it then?

 

Please walk us through the process from entering the bathroom until delivery of the payload in detail.  I must know!

 

Have you ever had to provide a sample for a fecal test and if you used your hand how was it able to fit?

 

Took a seat cover, placed it on seat, took crap on cover, used paper towel from restroom and placed ammo on napkin (stronger), folded, put napkin in bag from snack I brought in, took it back to seat and when most busy (halftime) loaded ammo. 

 

 

This has gotten very off track and was just a point about !@#$s who think they can stand up all the time, in this case a very big one who would not sit down despite several people unable to see.

[Cripple Creek]

36 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Have you ever had to provide a sample for a fecal test and if you used your hand how was it able to fit?

 

Took a seat cover, placed it on seat, took crap on cover, used paper towel from restroom and placed ammo on napkin (stronger), folded, put napkin in bag from snack I brought in, took it back to seat and when most busy (halftime) loaded ammo. 

 

 

This has gotten very off track and was just a point about !@#$s who think they can stand up all the time, in this case a very big one who would not sit down despite several people unable to see.

You shouldn't **** where you live.

[Punching Bag]

13 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

You shouldn't **** where you live.

 

I crap at clowns.

[4_kidd_4]

B word about the guy ruining your time then you smear poop on the section?

 

What about that kid who’s view was being obstructed? Now he’s got yr $hit all over the seat in front of him instead?

 

Oh but I put it in a s hit envelope so it’s totally ok guys! Trust me, I know how to s hit in my hand and carry it around for revenge the normal way!

 

 

 

[That's No Moon]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:19 AM, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

 As you mentioned, this franchise had trouble selling tickets in December during the glory years. 

They also had about 13k more seats to sell than they do now.  That team sold 67k tickets with no trouble whatsoever.  They sold 75k with little trouble.  It was the last 5k tickets that were hard when the weather was particularly bad.

 

For as awful as this team has been, for as long as it has been that way, the attendance has been remarkable.  Quite honestly, through the history of the franchise the Bills have generally been terrible with brief periods of excellence sprinkled in.

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

Stadiums, like all structures, have a useful life.  At a certain point on the cost curve the upkeep of retrofitting and renovating an old stadium becomes less economically sound than a new build.

Very well said.  (I know because I've made the same point many times over when this topic is brought up.)  Most don't realize that "Rich Stadium" is now older than the "Rockpile" was when it was replaced.  That always blows my mind!

[Boatdrinks]

35 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

They also had about 13k more seats to sell than they do now.  That team sold 67k tickets with no trouble whatsoever.  They sold 75k with little trouble.  It was the last 5k tickets that were hard when the weather was particularly bad.

 

For as awful as this team has been, for as long as it has been that way, the attendance has been remarkable.  Quite honestly, through the history of the franchise the Bills have generally been terrible with brief periods of excellence sprinkled in.

The attendance has been very good, aside from a couple of years where the team was especially putrid in the 1980’s. Overall, Bills teams have had a winning percentage of .500 or better in 27 of 58 seasons. So I’d argue that the team historically has been closer to average than terrible. 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The attendance has been very good, aside from a couple of years where the team was especially putrid in the 1980’s. Overall, Bills teams have had a winning percentage of .500 or better in 27 of 58 seasons. So I’d argue that the team historically has been closer to average than terrible. 

 

Bills have been in existence for 57 years (including AFL).  They've had 31 losing seasons and 4 (8-8) seasons.  

 

That, my friend, is not average.  It's !@#$ing putrid.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills have been in existence for 57 years (including AFL).  They've had 31 losing seasons and 4 (8-8) seasons.  

 

That, my friend, is not average.  It's !@#$ing putrid.

Median NFL winning pctg is right about .500. Bills are at .467. Closer to the median than the bottom. It’s a matter of perspective, I guess. 

[mannc]

52 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Median NFL winning pctg is right about .500. Bills are at .467. Closer to the median than the bottom. It’s a matter of perspective, I guess. 

The question is how many franchises have a lower winning percentage since their inception. Probably not more than a handful.  Cleveland , Detroit, Jacksonville, maybe the Saints,

[BigDingus]

The truth is a lot of you guys are too close to the situation to have an unbiased perspective. You are looking at it from a local, personal, introspective viewpoint.

Nothing is wrong with that of course, it's only you're failing to see the big picture. Buffalo already struggles to grow profit & revenue as it is compared to other NFL teams, even other small markets. And from a league perspective, growth and additional revenue streams are what keeps the bottom lines healthy. When the cap grows every year, it'll eventually hit a point where the profit margin shrinks further & further for teams not pulling their weight.

And from a national perspective, Buffalo is not a "destination place," and few but the most rabid, diehard fans WANT to travel to New Era. It's outside of the city, without much going on around it, and it's not a pretty sight. Even though local people (some of them) enjoy the bad weather games, many see it as a hindrance (clearly plenty of fans do, or else the stadium would be packed during those games & it's not). 

Though a new stadium usually costs more than it brings back in returns for the local economy, it does become a "crown jewel" of sorts in the region, and creates incentives for other businesses to pop up in the vicinity trying to capitalize on the luster & newness.

 

It'll also make Buffalo more of a destination place for events, and likely draw new attention to the area. Roads & infrastructure will get cleaned up, the surrounding landscape & environment will get cleaned up, and newer revenue streams will emerge. Property value will increase, outside investment will flow in, and region morale will be boosted by something truly unique and state-of-the-art (like all these new stadiums are). 

Players will have something to be proud of, and will likely feel much more comfortable making a decision to play for the Bills. Also, don't overlook the mental & emotional value something like that can bring to an area. I love Buffalo, and every time I visit I find something I enjoy more. But there is a very, historic, out-dated, a little dirty, past-its-prime, and OLD feeling to the city...like it's straight out of the 70's. That's not meant as an insult, and Buffalonians always point to some of the newer renovations & facilities going up in certain sectors or tiny areas (like the health & medical fields), but compared to other cities, it seems like it needs a kick in the butt to move forward...or dragged out of the past.

A new Stadium will bring other newness, freshness, and a sleeker, cleaner look to wherever its placed. If the location is right, the new business that come next will follow in the same steps. Those will eventually branch out, and slowly but surely the town will modernize, get cleaned up, and benefit greatly like many other cities from doing so. I know not all people want "gentrification" to overtake their cities, but it ultimately makes them a more desirable destination for both the public & private sectors. 

When I moved to my city in 2004, there were about 60,000 people living there, and you could tell growth was on the rise based on a select few new businesses deciding to invest in their companies there. There was the Stonebriar Mall, one High School and not much else. All it took was that mall going up for one or two other businesses to come there, which slowly started forcing the city into building up the roads & new neighborhoods. Fast forward to today, and it only snowballed more. It became such a beautiful area, that it got a minor league AA Baseball team. Then a hockey team, and eventually the Dallas Stars headquarters popped up, followed by a MLS soccer team....then out of nowhere, the Cowboys built their HQ & training facilities there in 2016, and my god has that place exploded. Yes, I know it's outside of a city like Dallas, but not all large cities have suburbs that turn into places like that.

Not saying Buffalo would follow the same route, but it sure does kick-start a LOT of development, just by having one new nice thing coming along. And it will certainly be a more pleasant gaming experience to many. The added revenue will help ensure the team can thrive in the future, and will also keep them firmly in Buffalo for the long run. Band-aids & renovations to New Era will not prevent relocation talks forever...Every team comes to the point where they need to upgrade or move on, and the Bills have been fortunate to avoid it so far. But never assume that it will always be that way, so to best prevent that, a new stadium has to come sooner rather than later.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

The question is how many franchises have a lower winning percentage since their inception. Probably not more than a handful.  Cleveland , Detroit, Jacksonville, maybe the Saints,

9 teams , and the Browns are not one of them. Their winning Pct is .490.  Lions , Bengals , Jets , Jaguars, Saints, Falcons , Texans, Cardinals and Buccaneers. Half the teams in the NFL have a cumulative winning pct of .499 or lower. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

9 teams , and the Browns are not one of them. Their winning Pct is .490.  Lions , Bengals , Jets , Jaguars, Saints, Falcons , Texans, Cardinals and Buccaneers. Half the teams in the NFL have a cumulative winning pct of .499 or lower. 

Yeah, I looked it up after i posted that.  I guess it depends how you define the Browns.  The modern franchise (post-Art Modell) is definitely bottom of the barrel, but the earlier teams bring the overall winning percentage up.  

[nucci]

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Median NFL winning pctg is right about .500. Bills are at .467. Closer to the median than the bottom. It’s a matter of perspective, I guess. 

Closer to average than terrible? They are in the bottom 5 in winning percentage....they have been mostly bad 

[Hammered a Lot]

On 8/6/2018 at 5:02 PM, corta765 said:

 

Much cheaper is a relative thing. The cost is around $500 million for Reno vs a new which could be the same potentially or in the $600-700 million range. Neither situation is cheap straight up. It's going to be a massive investment in either scenario and for the team, region, politicians, etc.. its a valid question to ask whether to rebuild or go new when the costs are massively different. The studies have been done on locations a few years ago.

 

I get that your one of the fans which things are perfect and if for eternity things never changed for Bills stadium you would be fine with that. There however are many who are not that way and wayy more forces then just us fans at play that will dictate will the Bills play. If you don't think the city of Buffalo would love to take in the tax revenue that Orchard Park gets plus the general aura/prestige of having the team downtown your dead wrong. Doesn't mean there going back either, but the grand picture is massive.

Orchard Park gets tax revenue? Prove it.