Mahomes Struggling in Camp

[Rico]

20 hours ago, APoxOnYou said:

I really hope he busts. Not because we passed on him, but because Chiefs fans are proclaiming him HoF worthy and he comes across as arrogant. 

I really hope he busts because !@#$ the Chiefs.

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the draft.  If anything, history has proven that McNabb made Reid look good---after McNabb was gone, Reid's playoff futility began.

 

Harbaugh is widely credited with bringing Smith to that level.

 

Kolb was never "great", but his best years came after he left Philly.

 

 

 

Wow, after 11 years as starter McNabb "faded into oblivion"?  He went to a bad Redskins team and led a top 10 passing offense. 

 

Garcia was a solid pro well before he met Andy Reid.  When called upon to step in as backup (for a handful of games), he played solid ball as he had well before Philly.  He didn't do well on crappy Detroit and Browns teams.  He did as well or better in Tampa Bay after he left Reid and Philly.

 

As for Smith, even Andy Reid credited Harbaugh for developing him into a "Super Bowl caliber QB", which is what Reid described Smith as when  he got to the Chiefs.

 

So much for that....

Did Andy Reid kill your dog or something?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, teef said:

that or being angry about how the prices of things have gone up.

 

Gas was $.60 a gallon back in his day.

[eball]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the draft.  If anything, history has proven that McNabb made Reid look good---after McNabb was gone, Reid's playoff futility began.

 

Harbaugh is widely credited with bringing Smith to that level.

 

Kolb was never "great", but his best years came after he left Philly.

 

Wow, after 11 years as starter McNabb "faded into oblivion"?  He went to a bad Redskins team and led a top 10 passing offense. 

 

Garcia was a solid pro well before he met Andy Reid.  When called upon to step in as backup (for a handful of games), he played solid ball as he had well before Philly.  He didn't do well on crappy Detroit and Browns teams.  He did as well or better in Tampa Bay after he left Reid and Philly.

 

As for Smith, even Andy Reid credited Harbaugh for developing him into a "Super Bowl caliber QB", which is what Reid described Smith as when  he got to the Chiefs.

 

So much for that....

 

BOOM goes the dynamite! 

[Heitz]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

I really hope he busts because !@#$ the Chiefs.

 

To be fair, without the Chiefs how would the Bills have sent that "it's a new season" mailer that featured an AWESOME action image of us punting against the Chiefs.  Like that was the only f'ing photo that they had in the entire building... ?

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Did Andy Reid kill your dog or something?

 

No just making some corrections. Dog killing isn't a prerequisite for that.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

....you mean like Tyrod...

[C.Biscuit97]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

QB guru??  Nope.

 

McNabb was a college star at Syracuse and was the #2 pick in the 1999 draft.  Reid's playoff success began and ended with McNabb.

 

Garcia was a 3 time Pro Bowler in Sf before Reid stumbled onto him.

 

Vick was also a 3 time Prom Bowler with Atlanta.  Reid's contribution to Vick's career was severely limiting his running--which was a major part of Vick's danger on the field.   Zero playoff wins with "Pocket Philly Vick".

 

Favre was a star a few years before Reid graduated from O-line coach to QB coach in GB.  I'm sure Favre would not agree with you.

 

Jim Harbaugh unlocked Smith's potential--he went 19-5 in his last 2 seasons before SF got rid of him.  Reid completely squandered the fully formed Alex Smith's efforts with his continued playoff  futility and awful game planning and coaching. 

 

And now Reid has dumped Smith for a completed untested Mahomes.

 

It's really not hard to imagine a rookieJosh Allen outplaying a second year Mahomes.

 

 

I know your whole gimmick is starting pointless arguments but man, what a bunch of ? you just posted.

 

1). McNabb was a raw qb when he was drafted.  He posted better numbers than Jim Kelly.  In his last season in Philly, he went 10-4, threw 22 tds to 10 ints.  In his next year in Washington, he threw 14 tds and 15 ints and his career was essentially over.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

 

2). Another lie.  Jeff Garcia, who was 36, went 5-1, threw 10 tds to 2 ints, and had the second best QB rating of his career.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GarcJe00.htm

 

3). Vick broke 60% passing for the first time in his career in Philly,  threw for 21 tds (most in his career), 6 ints, and had 100 qb rating (by far the highest in his career.  Stop lying.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm

 

4). Harbaugh unlocked Smith’s potential to the tune of 17 tds(1 below his career of 18 in SF)!!! Under Reid, smith posted td totals of 23, 20, 18, 15, & 26.  He also just posted his best QB rating of his career last year. I will bet you money it goes down in Washington.

 

how did Reid hurt you?  Because it makes you post some stupid things.  He sucks at clock management and hasn’t gotten over the hump in the playoffs.  But it is flat out dumb to say he isn’t a good offensive/ qb coach.

[Reed83HOF]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....you mean like Tyrod...

or trent

[Jay_Fixit]

49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know your whole gimmick is starting pointless arguments but man, what a bunch of ? you just posted.

 

1). McNabb was a raw qb when he was drafted.  He posted better numbers than Jim Kelly.  In his last season in Philly, he went 10-4, threw 22 tds to 10 ints.  In his next year in Washington, he threw 14 tds and 15 ints and his career was essentially over.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

 

2). Another lie.  Jeff Garcia, who was 36, went 5-1, threw 10 tds to 2 ints, and had the second best QB rating of his career.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GarcJe00.htm

 

3). Vick broke 60% passing for the first time in his career in Philly,  threw for 21 tds (most in his career), 6 ints, and had 100 qb rating (by far the highest in his career.  Stop lying.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm

 

4). Harbaugh unlocked Smith’s potential to the tune of 17 tds(1 below his career of 18 in SF)!!! Under Reid, smith posted td totals of 23, 20, 18, 15, & 26.  He also just posted his best QB rating of his career last year. I will bet you money it goes down in Washington.

 

how did Reid hurt you?  Because it makes you post some stupid things.  He sucks at clock management and hasn’t gotten over the hump in the playoffs.  But it is flat out dumb to say he isn’t a good offensive/ qb coach.

Yikes....time for me to nitpick too!

 

1) Doesn’t matter if McNabb was “raw” he was the 2nd overall pick. Obviously for a reason. And it took McNabb until his 6th year to really elevate his game. He had some decent years before that, but nothing “QB Guru” worthy..

 

2) Garcia after his lone Philly year went on to have two just as productive if not better seasons afterwards. But he was well established before he got to Philly. 2 years with Cleveland and Detroit don’t change that.

 

3) Sure Vick had a good year with Philly. Real nice story too. Except that the two years after he regressed. Seems a QB Guru would have fixed that.

 

4) Alex Smith’s last year in San Fran: 70.2 comp % 104.1 rating before he got hurt. He wouldn’t equal that until his 5th year in KC...if you want to nit pick numbers from a clearly improving QB who was traded in the prime of his career..

 

In summation, sure Reid has had some nice QB’s to play with. But outside of McNabb who was a 2nd overall pick, he hasn’t really “QB Guru’d” to the extent that some people have said.

 

Here’s the truth:

 

Mahomes will be awful. And there’s nothing Andy Reid can do about it.

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yikes....time for me to nitpick too!

 

1) Doesn’t matter if McNabb was “raw” he was the 2nd overall pick. Obviously for a reason. And it took McNabb until his 6th year to really elevate his game. He had some decent years before that, but nothing “QB Guru” worthy..

 

2) Garcia after his lone Philly year went on to have two just as productive if not better seasons afterwards. But he was well established before he got to Philly. 2 years with Cleveland and Detroit don’t change that.

 

3) Sure Vick had a good year with Philly. Real nice story too. Except that the two years after he regressed. Seems a QB Guru would have fixed that.

 

4) Alex Smith’s last year in San Fran: 70.2 comp % 104.1 rating before he got hurt. He wouldn’t equal that until his 5th year in KC...if you want to nit pick numbers from a clearly improving QB who was traded in the prime of his career..

 

In summation, sure Reid has had some nice QB’s to play with. But outside of McNabb who was a 2nd overall pick, he hasn’t really “QB Guru’d to the extent that some people have said.

 

Here’s the truth:

 

Mahomes will be awful. And there’s nothing Andy Reid can do about it.

 

Clearly, the coach who has had a top 10 scoring offense 11 times in his career knows nothing!!! What a loser!  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

[Jay_Fixit]

41 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Clearly, the coach who has had a top 10 scoring offense 11 times in his career knows nothing!!! What a loser!  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

 

 

Takes established vets who’ve played well and....THEY CONTINUE TO PLAY WELL!!!

 

QB GURU!!!!

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

 

 

Takes established vets who’ve played well and....THEY CONTINUE TO PLAY WELL!!!

 

QB GURU!!!!

Alex Smith with a career high18 tds was a STAR!!!  Mike Vick was a GREAT PASSER before prison!!!  McNabb was a finished product despite completing under 60% and never having more than 2,500 passing yards in college!!!

 

Jay_Fixit >>>>>> Andy Reid!!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Clearly, the coach who has had a top 10 scoring offense 11 times in his career knows nothing!!! What a loser!  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

 

...sad isn't it?...surely his "crystal bawls" HAD to clearly show the lad would struggle, but he took him anyway right?....so why are all of the TBD pundnuts calling for McBeane's head because he didn't draft him hiding out in the Witness Protection Program??...SHOCKING, isn't it?......the fickle get fickler.....

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...sad isn't it?...surely his "crystal bawls" HAD to clearly show the lad would struggle, but he took him anyway right?....so why are all of the TBD pundnuts calling for McBeane's head because he didn't draft him hiding out in the Witness Protection Program??...SHOCKING, isn't it?......the fickle get fickler.....

It’s goifn to be interesting.  There was a ceiling with Alex Smith, but also a very high floor.  Reid took a big risk and it will result in more turnovers and possibly less wins at first.  It’s very similar to our situation.  Tyrod Was basically a worse throwing Smith clone (cross racial!).  Your ceiling was limited but you had a decently high floor.

 

personally, I would have kept Smith one more year since he had the best season of his career.  But I get the move just like I get it for the Bills.  Not a huge fan of the Allen pick but it was time to move on from Tyrod.  Fans shouldn’t overreact to either young qb struggling early on.  It’s goinf to happen.  But it would make me nervous if Mahomes struggles badly because he’s in about as good of a situation for a young qb as I can remember.  

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s goifn to be interesting.  There was a ceiling with Alex Smith, but also a very high floor.  Reid took a big risk and it will result in more turnovers and possibly less wins at first.  It’s very similar to our situation.  Tyrod Was basically a worse throwing Smith clone (cross racial!).  Your ceiling was limited but you had a decently high floor.

 

personally, I would have kept Smith one more year since he had the best season of his career.  But I get the move just like I get it for the Bills.  Not a huge fan of the Allen pick but it was time to move on from Tyrod.  Fans shouldn’t overreact to either young qb struggling early on.  It’s goinf to happen.  But it would make me nervous if Mahomes struggles badly because he’s in about as good of a situation for a young qb as I can remember.  

 

Had Smith had another year on his deal after 2018 I am sure they would have kept him. But he wasn't signing again with Mahomes in the wings and KC either maximised value this year or potentially lost him for nothing next (comp picks not withstanding).

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s goifn to be interesting.  There was a ceiling with Alex Smith, but also a very high floor.  Reid took a big risk and it will result in more turnovers and possibly less wins at first.  It’s very similar to our situation.  Tyrod Was basically a worse throwing Smith clone (cross racial!).  Your ceiling was limited but you had a decently high floor.

 

personally, I would have kept Smith one more year since he had the best season of his career.  But I get the move just like I get it for the Bills.  Not a huge fan of the Allen pick but it was time to move on from Tyrod.  Fans shouldn’t overreact to either young qb struggling early on.  It’s goinf to happen.  But it would make me nervous if Mahomes struggles badly because he’s in about as good of a situation for a young qb as I can remember.  

 

...you've been around long enough to know how it works....has never been, is not and will NEVER be an exact science.....too early to let Alex walk?...Andy said no and the Deadskins said "we'll take him".....Mahomes a potential franchise QB?...Andy thinks so.....and many TBD pundnuts want McBeane's head for not drafting the guy....so who is right and who is wrong?......moving on from TT was a given.....even the "purple pill" could NOT resuscitate our prolific and threatening (COUGH) passing "attack"....One Dimensional 101......Allen kid?...sorry but I feel McBeane and his well qualified staff of 17+ did their due diligence with this kid...flaws?...don't they all?...correctable?.....with commitment and proper coaching, why not?.....I think McBeane and this gang is the best post Polian...

Edited August 3, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[KW95 - JA17]

great job

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

1) Doesn’t matter if McNabb was “raw”...

.... speaking of raw. Has anyone ever eaten gas station sushi?

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know your whole gimmick is starting pointless arguments but man, what a bunch of ? you just posted.

 

1). McNabb was a raw qb when he was drafted.  He posted better numbers than Jim Kelly.  In his last season in Philly, he went 10-4, threw 22 tds to 10 ints.  In his next year in Washington, he threw 14 tds and 15 ints and his career was essentially over.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

 

2). Another lie.  Jeff Garcia, who was 36, went 5-1, threw 10 tds to 2 ints, and had the second best QB rating of his career.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GarcJe00.htm

 

3). Vick broke 60% passing for the first time in his career in Philly,  threw for 21 tds (most in his career), 6 ints, and had 100 qb rating (by far the highest in his career.  Stop lying.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm

 

4). Harbaugh unlocked Smith’s potential to the tune of 17 tds(1 below his career of 18 in SF)!!! Under Reid, smith posted td totals of 23, 20, 18, 15, & 26.  He also just posted his best QB rating of his career last year. I will bet you money it goes down in Washington.

 

how did Reid hurt you?  Because it makes you post some stupid things.  He sucks at clock management and hasn’t gotten over the hump in the playoffs.  But it is flat out dumb to say he isn’t a good offensive/ qb coach.

 

Raw QB?  He was the number 2 pick in the draft.  He was Offensive Player of the Year in the Big East every year at Syracuse.  He was in the end of a long successful career but the time he went to Washington where he still brought a crappy team to a top 10 offense.

 

Garcia..."another lie"?    You're arguing that Garcia, after dominating the CFL, then taking over for Young in Sf, where he was a 3 time Pro Bowler, and who had the same "QB rating" in Tampa after he left Philly......was somehow made/improved/something/something over 6 GAMES with Andy Reid??  This is laughable.  This is the definition of posting "stupid things".

 

Vick was a star in this league well before he went to prison.  You might be too young to remember that.  His limitations were mainly his accuracy.  His performance declined every year after his first in Philly ("QB rating").

 

Yes, Harbaugh.  I was quoting Reid himself.  He said Harbaugh made Smith a SB caliber QB.  

 

Why would Reid have to "hurt" me to point out the your poor grasp of the above?

 

You flatter yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Did Andy Reid kill your dog or something?

No, Reid was just ahead of Mr. WEO at the Golden Corral.  Ate everything in sight, nothing left for Mr. WEO.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Alex Smith with a career high18 tds was a STAR!!!  Mike Vick was a GREAT PASSER before prison!!!  McNabb was a finished product despite completing under 60% and never having more than 2,500 passing yards in college!!!

 

Jay_Fixit >>>>>> Andy Reid!!!

I’ve never witnessed someone standing in their own shoulders to feel tall but I imagine that’s what you’re doing.

 

Number 2 pick, 3 established veterans, all of which either had success before Reid and maintained their success after Reid, or got worse with him.

 

You got nothing. And you probably smell like feet.

 

QB GURU!!!

 

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, aceman_16 said:

.... speaking of raw. Has anyone ever eaten gas station sushi?

I know that our poster formerly known as misterbluesky was a huge fan of the stuff.

 

LOVED it.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Chiefs OC Dismisses Mahomes' Practice 'Hiccups'

Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy brushed off concerns over first-year starter Patrick Mahomes tossing a handful of interceptions during training camp.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Chiefs OC Dismisses Mahomes' Practice 'Hiccups'

Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy brushed off concerns over first-year starter Patrick Mahomes tossing a handful of interceptions during training camp.

 

 

First time NFL OC (and career RB coach) says his overdrafted inexperienced franchise QB is just fine.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

First time NFL OC (and career RB coach) says his overdrafted inexperienced franchise QB is just fine.

 

Your word over his and Reid's of course.   

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your word over his and Reid's of course.   

 

Not my word.  Just pointing out the circumstances under which the OC's comment was made.

 

Reid dumped his best QB without knowing if the replacement is as good or better.  He's whistling past the graveyard.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not my word.  Just pointing out the circumstances under which the OC's comment was made.

 

Reid dumped his best QB without knowing if the replacement is as good or better.  He's whistling past the graveyard.

 

No. He's taking a calculated risk based on his knowledge of QBs at the NFL level to propel his team beyond the plateau of Smith's inability to lead the team to a deep playoff run with multiple 1st round exits. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No. He's taking a calculated risk based on his knowledge of QBs at the NFL level to propel his team beyond the plateau of Smith's inability to lead the team to a deep playoff run with multiple 1st round exits. 

 

So now you are saying that Alex Smith, who in 5 playoff games with KC completed 65% of his passes and had 9 TDs on 2 ints and a rating of 96...was the reason for the Chiefs playoff futility under Andy Reid?

 

Reid's poor playoff game management in KC is a secret only to you. 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now you are saying that Alex Smith, who in 5 playoff games with KC completed 65% of his passes and had 9 TDs on 2 ints and a rating of 96...was the reason for the Chiefs playoff futility under Andy Reid?

 

Reid's poor playoff game management in KC is a secret only to you. 

 

Reid has to own his share of the blame, but if you boil Smith's performance down to numbers then you need to take another look.  Of course Reid continues to be one of your favorites along with Shady. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Reid has to own his share of the blame, but if you boil Smith's performance down to numbers then you need to take another look.  Of course Reid continues to be one of your favorites along with Shady. 

 

You're the one who enjoys the numbers...well one number anyway (QB rating).  Even that was better for Smith when he was in playoff games in SF.

 

 

[Bill_with_it]

What I thought Sammy was going to save the day with all that potential..

[GunnerBill]

I'm not totally with WEO on Andy Reid, but he is 100% right on Alex Smith. It was Harbaugh who rescued his career and rebuilt him mentally.  I think he also showed Smith what kind of Quarterback he needed to be in the NFL. Until Harbaugh arrived in San Fran I don't think Alex Smith had an identity as an NFL Quarterback.  The mobile distributor who takes the easy throws and keeps the chains moving only really became his style once he was working with Harbaugh.  Before that he had tried everything - being a runner, being a deep ball thrower, being a classic west coast timing thrower. 

[Mr. WEO]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm not totally with WEO on Andy Reid, but he is 100% right on Alex Smith. It was Harbaugh who rescued his career and rebuilt him mentally.  I think he also showed Smith what kind of Quarterback he needed to be in the NFL. Until Harbaugh arrived in San Fran I don't think Alex Smith had an identity as an NFL Quarterback.  The mobile distributor who takes the easy throws and keeps the chains moving only really became his style once he was working with Harbaugh.  Before that he had tried everything - being a runner, being a deep ball thrower, being a classic west coast timing thrower. 

 

This is true. 

 

My point was to challenge the notion that Reid was some creator of QBs, or a "guru".

 

McNabb wasn't a good example to challenge my point, I think.  And Garcia was probably the worst argument someone could have made for Reid's QB magic.

[DCOrange]

Not to detract from the Reid argument that appears to have taken over this thread, but I think people are making a bigger deal out of the Mahomes INTs than it should be. Rodgers has also thrown 7 INTs in 5 practices and he's a pretty decent QB IMO.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

You're the one who enjoys the numbers...well one number anyway (QB rating).  Even that was better for Smith when he was in playoff games in SF.

 

You have me confused with someone else.  Numbers like QB rating only tell part of the story. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Andy Reid has only led a top 10 scoring offense 11 times!!! Why not 12 or 13?  If I had to blindly trust someone on qbs and offense, I would definitely go with the Bills and Bills fans over Reid’s.  Clearly, we have the far superior track record!

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Not to detract from the Reid argument that appears to have taken over this thread, but I think people are making a bigger deal out of the Mahomes INTs than it should be. Rodgers has also thrown 7 INTs in 5 practices and he's a pretty decent QB IMO.

The problem is it’s an overreact to society.  Reporting on training camp is both awesome and completely stupid.  You are supposed to make mistakes in camp. 

[oldmanfan]

Since I kind of started this, my thoughts on Reid is that he has not shown much as a HC. As an offensive coach maybe, but that's not his job anymore.  And I still think ridiculous that a some people here talk up Mahomes and talk down Allen.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now you are saying that Alex Smith, who in 5 playoff games with KC completed 65% of his passes and had 9 TDs on 2 ints and a rating of 96...was the reason for the Chiefs playoff futility under Andy Reid?

 

Reid's poor playoff game management in KC is a secret only to you. 

 

Reid has to shoulder his share of the blame, no doubt.  I think I've never heard Tony Dungy be so blunt about a coach on air.

 

Alex Smith had a career year last year, but it's been discussed here by Zerovoltz and others who watch KC that in general, Smith's QB DNA is a lot closer to Tyrod Taylor than people who just look at last year's gaudy numbers may think.  The emergence of Tyreek Hill gave them a great deep threat, but Smith otherwise still tends to bail out of the pocket too soon and miss his progressions under pressure, sometimes phantom pressure.  Through most of his time in KC, Smith has been a 7 ypa, 220 ypg guy.

 

The Chiefs are taking the "Good is the enemy of Great" approach in moving on from him in favor of Mahomes, who they were apparently watching for years. 

The Redskins are banking on last year's career year for Smith being the "new normal", and Smith being just as good or better than Cousins only cheaper.

 

Time will tell who's right.