Mahomes Struggling in Camp

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm not totally with WEO on Andy Reid, but he is 100% right on Alex Smith. It was Harbaugh who rescued his career and rebuilt him mentally.  I think he also showed Smith what kind of Quarterback he needed to be in the NFL. Until Harbaugh arrived in San Fran I don't think Alex Smith had an identity as an NFL Quarterback.  The mobile distributor who takes the easy throws and keeps the chains moving only really became his style once he was working with Harbaugh.  Before that he had tried everything - being a runner, being a deep ball thrower, being a classic west coast timing thrower. 

 

Harbaugh rescued Smith to being a capable NFL QB.  Harbaugh moved on from him because (under Harbaugh) Smith was a <200 ypg guy

 

I don't think there can be much argument that Smith "leveled up" his game under Reid.  Just statistically, he immediately added 30 ypg passing and another 30 ypg rushing to his productivity, but the "eyeball test" says he became a more complete passing QB under Reid.  I think part of that would be that in general, Reid and his acolyte OCs design a better passing game and a more dangerous offense than Roman ever did. 

 

Maybe a lot of it was Pederson.  I think the Eagles last year proved pretty definitively Pederson knows something.  If you would have asked me, before the Superbowl, if the Eagles could win a game with Nick Foles at QB, in which they allowed the Patriots >600 yds of offense and Brady >500 yards passing, I would have said "NFW, are you craycray?"

[Bangarang]

Young QB experiencing growing pains the first week of training camp isn’t really a big deal. We will be seeing our own QB go through growing pains as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm not totally with WEO on Andy Reid, but he is 100% right on Alex Smith. It was Harbaugh who rescued his career and rebuilt him mentally.  I think he also showed Smith what kind of Quarterback he needed to be in the NFL. Until Harbaugh arrived in San Fran I don't think Alex Smith had an identity as an NFL Quarterback.  The mobile distributor who takes the easy throws and keeps the chains moving only really became his style once he was working with Harbaugh.  Before that he had tried everything - being a runner, being a deep ball thrower, being a classic west coast timing thrower. 

Harbaugh also traded him and tried to replace him very quickly, even with his career high 18 tds.  And then nearly won the SB the next year.  I think the replacement was Brandon Weeden.

[Yeezus]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:00 AM, John from Riverside said:

Nobody really cares what you think

 

thats not my opinion

 

thats literal fact. Allen is struggling with the 1st team reps and has barely outplayed Peterman. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
Inappropriate language

[C.Biscuit97]

Wow, imagine how amazing the KC trade will be when the Chiefs cut Mahomes in a week and we sign him!  ?

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

 

thats not my opinion you deluded moron 

 

thats literal fact. Allen is struggling with the 1st team reps and has barely outplayed Peterman. 

Another guy who confuses fact with opinion.

 

Mahomes threw some picks, Allen had good and bad moments.  In the first week of preseason.  BFD.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Yeezus said:

 

thats not my opinion 

 

thats literal fact. Allen is struggling with the 1st team reps and has barely outplayed Peterman. 

Except it is not true and not a fact......

But trolls dont know this

[Jay_Fixit]

Not sure about the rest of you but I’m watching this thread from the corner eating some corn nuts with my shirt off.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now you are saying that Alex Smith, who in 5 playoff games with KC completed 65% of his passes and had 9 TDs on 2 ints and a rating of 96...was the reason for the Chiefs playoff futility under Andy Reid?

 

Reid's poor playoff game management in KC is a secret only to you. 

 

 

...slam dunk.....good call.........wish I could remember the specific game (ANOTHER damn senior moment) whre Alex had KC marching down the field like "Grant took Richmond" in the 1st half....Andy changes up play calling in the 2nd and they sank faster than the Titanic.........to a "L".....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now you are saying that Alex Smith, who in 5 playoff games with KC completed 65% of his passes and had 9 TDs on 2 ints and a rating of 96...was the reason for the Chiefs playoff futility under Andy Reid?

 

Reid's poor playoff game management in KC is a secret only to you. 

But 26 knows all about QBs ...  he can’t b mistaken.    (can he?) 

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Young QB experiencing growing pains the first week of training camp isn’t really a big deal. We will be seeing our own QB go through growing pains as well.

Blasphemy!!!!!!

 

to the pit of misery you must go 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Not sure about the rest of you but I’m watching this thread from the corner eating some corn nuts with my shirt off.

 

Ranch?

[Beast]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Not to detract from the Reid argument that appears to have taken over this thread, but I think people are making a bigger deal out of the Mahomes INTs than it should be. Rodgers has also thrown 7 INTs in 5 practices and he's a pretty decent QB IMO.

 

 

When he he has the career accomplishments of Rodgers people can be less alarmed.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Reid has to shoulder his share of the blame, no doubt.  I think I've never heard Tony Dungy be so blunt about a coach on air.

 

Alex Smith had a career year last year, but it's been discussed here by Zerovoltz and others who watch KC that in general, Smith's QB DNA is a lot closer to Tyrod Taylor than people who just look at last year's gaudy numbers may think.  The emergence of Tyreek Hill gave them a great deep threat, but Smith otherwise still tends to bail out of the pocket too soon and miss his progressions under pressure, sometimes phantom pressure.  Through most of his time in KC, Smith has been a 7 ypa, 220 ypg guy.

 

The Chiefs are taking the "Good is the enemy of Great" approach in moving on from him in favor of Mahomes, who they were apparently watching for years. 

The Redskins are banking on last year's career year for Smith being the "new normal", and Smith being just as good or better than Cousins only cheaper.

 

Time will tell who's right.

 

Wow Tony Dungy, of all people, was ranking on Reid??  There's a guy who squandered more talented teams with playoff one and dones.  That's ballsy if Dungy dumped on Reid.

 

Smith is as good as Cousins...and cheaper.  Who knows, maybe Mahomes will be the second coming of Donovan McNabb and Reid will be able to win another playoff game to make it 2 wins over the last 11 years.

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Harbaugh also traded him and tried to replace him very quickly, even with his career high 18 tds.  And then nearly won the SB the next year.  I think the replacement was Brandon Weeden.

 

 

Huh?

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You have me confused with someone else.  Numbers like QB rating only tell part of the story. 

 

 

Sorry, you are right.  It was Cbisuit. 

[Punching Bag]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:24 PM, H2o said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24255909/kansas-city-chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-plagued-mistakes

 

Somewhere, Jeffismagic is on antidepressants 

 

It is hard to live to Alex Smith.

 

And hopefully Jeffismagic's long white sleeves are tied tight.

[billsfan89]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:00 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the draft.  If anything, history has proven that McNabb made Reid look good---after McNabb was gone, Reid's playoff futility began.

 

Harbaugh is widely credited with bringing Smith to that level.

 

Kolb was never "great", but his best years came after he left Philly.

 

 

 

Wow, after 11 years as starter McNabb "faded into oblivion"?  He went to a bad Redskins team and led a top 10 passing offense. 

 

Garcia was a solid pro well before he met Andy Reid.  When called upon to step in as backup (for a handful of games), he played solid ball as he had well before Philly.  He didn't do well on crappy Detroit and Browns teams.  He did as well or better in Tampa Bay after he left Reid and Philly.

 

As for Smith, even Andy Reid credited Harbaugh for developing him into a "Super Bowl caliber QB", which is what Reid described Smith as when  he got to the Chiefs.

 

So much for that....

 

Are you seriously trying to say that McNabb was a top 10 QB in Washington? In 2009 his only year in Washington McNabb threw for 3,300 yards and 14 TD's to 15 INT's if he was so good in Washington why did they trade him for mid-round picks the year after. McNabb fell off a complete cliff once he left Reid. Alex Smith never had as good a year in his career as he did last year in KC. You are doing some real mental gymnastics to **** on Reid writing off anything positive he ever did as the result of others and then blaming him for everything negative that ever happened in his career. 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Are you seriously trying to say that McNabb was a top 10 QB in Washington? In 2009 his only year in Washington McNabb threw for 3,300 yards and 14 TD's to 15 INT's if he was so good in Washington why did they trade him for mid-round picks the year after. McNabb fell off a complete cliff once he left Reid. Alex Smith never had as good a year in his career as he did last year in KC. You are doing some real mental gymnastics to **** on Reid writing off anything positive he ever did as the result of others and then blaming him for everything negative that ever happened in his career. 

 

 

 

No, that's seriously not what i said. I said, at the tail end of his career, he was able to take a Redskins team that was 4-12 the year before and bring it to a top 10 passing offense.

 

 

 

Take a step closer to your desktop screen...

 

the Alex Smith stuff has been discussed ad nauseum.   Wake up, and scroll up for the details.  Christ....

Edited August 4, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No, that's seriously not what i said. I said, at the tail end of his career, he was able to take a Redskins team that was 4-12 the year before and bring it to a top 10 passing offense.

 

 

 

Take a step closer to your desktop screen...

 

the Alex Smith stuff has been discussed ad nauseum.   Wake up, and scroll up for the details.  Christ....

3

 

"A top 10 passing offense." Is a very misleading way to describe McNabb's season as though it was in any way a reflection of McNabb having a good season. McNabb was terrible that year, the Skins passing offensive rank was more so a result of them being down late in games and having to pass a lot. Once in a while, a bad team can pile up stats in a particular category and not have it be a reflection of talent but a reflection of circumstance.

 

The Redskins were 6-10 with the 18th best offensive yards per game and 25th in points scored. They clearly were piling up garbage time yards (Which would explain the much lower rank in points scored than yards.) They clearly were playing from behind and throwing more which inflated their passing total. The Skins that year had the 4th most passing attempts and the 31st amount of rushing attempts. So yes if you throw the ball the 4th most time in the league and play down late in games where there is plenty of opportunity for garbage time soft defense running out the clock you might be able to have the 9th ranked passing offense. 

 

At best McNabb had a highly below average season with the Skins having a handful of good games but mostly inflating stats with a high amount of attempts and garbage time stats. You can B word about Reid all you want but you have to stretch pretty hard to hate on his QB record. Reid isn't a perfect QB coach (Who honestly is) but he has a pretty good track record when it comes to getting the best out of a QB and scouting QB talent. If Mahomes fails it will not be because of the coach. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

"A top 10 passing offense." Is a very misleading way to describe McNabb's season as though it was in any way a reflection of McNabb having a good season. McNabb was terrible that year, the Skins passing offensive rank was more so a result of them being down late in games and having to pass a lot. Once in a while, a bad team can pile up stats in a particular category and not have it be a reflection of talent but a reflection of circumstance.

 

The Redskins were 6-10 with the 18th best offensive yards per game and 25th in points scored. They clearly were piling up garbage time yards (Which would explain the much lower rank in points scored than yards.) They clearly were playing from behind and throwing more which inflated their passing total. The Skins that year had the 4th most passing attempts and the 31st amount of rushing attempts. So yes if you throw the ball the 4th most time in the league and play down late in games where there is plenty of opportunity for garbage time soft defense running out the clock you might be able to have the 9th ranked passing offense. 

 

At best McNabb had a highly below average season with the Skins having a handful of good games but mostly inflating stats with a high amount of attempts and garbage time stats. You can B word about Reid all you want but you have to stretch pretty hard to hate on his QB record. Reid isn't a perfect QB coach (Who honestly is) but he has a pretty good track record when it comes to getting the best out of a QB and scouting QB talent. If Mahomes fails it will not be because of the coach. 

 

The guy was playing out the string after 11 years in Philly on a crappy Washington team.  Not sure what compelling argument you are trying to make here--that he would have had a much better season on that redskins team if Reid was still his coach? 

 

The fact remains that , despite  all of his "track record" of "mentoring" all of those QBs after McNabb, the inescapable fact is that Reid has won a single playoff game in the past 11 years. 

 

I will give you props for coining the phrase "highly below average" though.  That's pretty sweet.

[Thurmal34]

its freaking camp. he's in his second year.

 

WHO CARES?

[Rico]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wow Tony Dungy, of all people, was ranking on Reid??  There's a guy who squandered more talented teams with playoff one and dones.  That's ballsy if Dungy dumped on Reid.

 

Smith is as good as Cousins...and cheaper.  Who knows, maybe Mahomes will be the second coming of Donovan McNabb and Reid will be able to win another playoff game to make it 2 wins over the last 11 years.

 

 

Huh?

I’m no Dungy fan at all, but to be fair to him, he did have Peyton Gump (Big Game Chump) for a lot of those one-and-dones.

 

As for Andy Reid? 

[Ol Dirty B]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:36 PM, oldmanfan said:

I have not understood how the same folks negative on Allen talk about how we missed on Mahomes, how Beane gets fired for not taking Mahomes, etc.   His flaws are similar to the ones talked about for Allen, primarily footwork.   At least Allen ran a more pro style offense.  Mahomes ran that shotgun single look spread - has a QB that played that offense in college done well in the pros?

 

Aaron Rodgers?

[KRT88]

It’s exceptionally difficult to make a seamless transition to QB in the NFL. Like all young QB’s he will have growing pains. However, he’s got weapons and when he puts it together, they’ll be some big numbers put up.

[Ittakestime]

6 minutes ago, KRT88 said:

It’s exceptionally difficult to make a seamless transition to QB in the NFL. Like all young QB’s he will have growing pains. However, he’s got weapons and when he puts it together, they’ll be some big numbers put up.

 

KC has done team building mistake number 1.  They have weapons, but no o line.  What's the point of weapons if the o line is abysmal? 

 

I want Allen to sit a year so the Bills can take another year to build the o line up.  KC had a year to build the line and they did nothing.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Not sure about the rest of you but I’m watching this thread from the corner eating some corn nuts with my shirt off.

 

I always say TBD and TSW are educational.  I had no previous idea that corn has nuts.

58 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Aaron Rodgers?

 

Tedford, Cal 2002-2004, I think so?

Also Drew Brees?

 

Then there's Kyle Boller

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Wow Tony Dungy, of all people, was ranking on Reid?? 

 

Yeah, my jaw dropped.  It was right after the playoff loss to Tennessee.  I can't find the clip, but as I recall the talking heads were recapping the loss and Dungy said something incredibly blunt like "if Kansas City is looking to win a Superbowl, they will not do so under Andy Reid".  I was like "whoaoaoa!"

 

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Smith is as good as Cousins...and cheaper. 

 

The stats actually say Smith was significantly better than Cousins last year, but my eyeballs disagree on even "as good".  I think Smith had an incredibly talented stable of WR/TE to throw to, a strong run game, a very good D that could keep them in the game and protect a lead absent Mariota heroics, and play calling that suited him perfectly.  With Washington, I see Smith having at best 2/4 of these things, arguably 1/4 or 0/4, and regressing to a 200-220 ypg guy.

 

We'll see. Time will tell.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

I’m no Dungy fan at all, but to be fair to him, he did have Peyton Gump (Big Game Chump) for a lot of those one-and-dones.

 

As for Andy Reid? 

 

Dungy's trademark move was, after running it up on a crappy division every year, he would "rest" his starters and then get bounced in the first playoff game.

 

But yeah, Manning shared that same 7 one and done record with his coach.  No excuse given the talent on those teams.

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, my jaw dropped.  It was right after the playoff loss to Tennessee.  I can't find the clip, but as I recall the talking heads were recapping the loss and Dungy said something incredibly blunt like "if Kansas City is looking to win a Superbowl, they will not do so under Andy Reid".  I was like "whoaoaoa!"

 

 

The stats actually say Smith was significantly better than Cousins last year, but my eyeballs disagree on even "as good".  I think Smith had an incredibly talented stable of WR/TE to throw to, a strong run game, a very good D that could keep them in the game and protect a lead absent Mariota heroics, and play calling that suited him perfectly.  With Washington, I see Smith having at best 2/4 of these things, arguably 1/4 or 0/4, and regressing to a 200-220 ypg guy.

 

We'll see. Time will tell.

 

I'm surprised Tony didn't say "If KC is going to win its only SB, they will have to play it against Rex Grossman".

 

He and Reid belong in the "Regular Season Wonders Wing'" of the HOF...

 

As for Smith, I think he looks better than Cousins as well.  We shall see.

[Jay_Fixit]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ranch?

BBQ. But I can rock the hell out of ranch if required.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

BBQ. But I can rock the hell out of ranch if required.

 

Dealer's choice in that scenario!

[Jay_Fixit]

9 hours ago, Thurmal34 said:

its freaking camp. he's in his second year.

 

WHO CARES?

I care. Because I’m excited to see him fail.

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Dealer's choice in that scenario!

I’ll have both options when you’re ready to come over for some deck scotch and a charcuterie plate on a nice summers day.

 

Also... QB GURU!!!

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I care. Because I’m excited to see him fail.

I’ll have both options when you’re ready to come over for some deck scotch and a charcuterie plate on a nice summers day.

 

Also... QB GURU!!!

 

Can you imagine the quantity of corn nuts said QB guru might consume in a day?

[Jay_Fixit]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Can you imagine the quantity of corn nuts said QB guru might consume in a day?

Depends who he’s guru’ing.

 

Unless it’s like a regular Saturday in April at the lake. My math doesn’t go that high. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

Depends who he’s guru’ing.

 

Unless it’s like a regular Saturday in April at the lake. My math doesn’t go that high. 

 

Indeed

[Jay_Fixit]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Indeed

That’s what Pat Mahomes answers anytime QB Guru asks if it’s smart to run around and then heave balls up into traffic while back pedaling with the worst footwork anyone has ever seen.

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

That’s what Pat Mahomes answers anytime QB Guru asks if it’s smart to run around and then heave balls up into traffic while back pedaling with the worst footwork anyone has ever seen.

 

Reid has "had his eye on" Mahomes sicne the lad was a fetal ultrasound image.  He'll be fine.

[HappyDays]

 

I dont understand the hype around Mahomes at all.

[peterpan]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:36 PM, oldmanfan said:

I have not understood how the same folks negative on Allen talk about how we missed on Mahomes, how Beane gets fired for not taking Mahomes, etc.   His flaws are similar to the ones talked about for Allen, primarily footwork.   At least Allen ran a more pro style offense.  Mahomes ran that shotgun single look spread - has a QB that played that offense in college done well in the pros?

I'm sorry but if bean gets fired it will be because he passed on Rosen.

[eball]

50 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I dont understand the hype around Mahomes at all.

 

He'd have been sacked three times already by the time he let that pass go.

[Putin]

16 minutes ago, peterpan said:

I'm sorry but if bean gets fired it will be because he passed on Rosen.

First of all Bean was not even the GM when Mahomes was drafted ,  

I guess I missed the announcement that  Rosen won the QB competition and will be the week 1 starter !

IMO Mahomes in his second year is still a bigger Question mark then Allen , 

i watched quiet few of Mahome  games and there were some IMPRESSIVE throws but for every one of those ( impressive throws) there were 2 or  3 WT@ was he thinking ????? 

Lets NOT forget Mahomes had a whole year to sit and watch/learn , 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

36 minutes ago, peterpan said:

I'm sorry but if bean gets fired it will be because he passed on Rosen.

 

 

....fired?......better go find Tinker Bell....good Lord as if Rosen walks on water......already.......