BurpleBull Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) Were any of the players you guys were enamored with, minus Harrison Phillips, still available from picks 53 to 96? Courtland Sutton (40th) Harold Landry (41st) Connor Williams (50th) Anthony Miller (51st) None of mine were. This is why I don't stress over what was given up to move up in the 1st rd; in my opinion Brandon Beane didn't break the bank. The Bills surrendered Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, the 12th overall pick, 53rd, and the 56th for the chance to grab Josh Allen 7th overall. Far worse on paper than in actuality when you consider that Sammy Watkins was somewhat overrated, prone to injury, probably being paid a lot more than his actual football value and had his potential replacement drafted in the form of Zay Jones; Cordy Glenn was beginning to enter into the same territory as Watkins, despite being the more valuable of the two and the Bills also had his replacement on deck with Dion Dawkins. Both replacements lessening the sting of both departures. Beane is all about getting great value, players who perform, he's all about getting more bang for the buck. So it's easier to understand why he would have taken Josh Allen over Josh Rosen despite the glaring areas of concern that stuck out, such as his accuracy, decision-making, and underwhelming stats versus small-school competition. Selecting Josh Rosen, an oft-injured college player, with what some might describe as personality flaws, would have gone against what seems to be Beane's philosophy for building a winner. Josh Allen: durable, tough, athletic, smart, locker room guy, enthusiastic, coachable, powerful arm. He was easily the safer investment between himself and Josh Rosen. Which leads me to disagree with this notion, that Brandon Beane would be run out of town, should Josh Allen fail to materialize into what he, Sean McDermott, and Brian Daboll envision him becoming. The Bills' roster is pretty set all around with a few areas that could use upgrades here and there and the Bills loss no future picks in acquiring Josh Allen; the present looks pretty good with things primed to only get better. Plenty good would still be intact to see the Bills through and pressing forward should Allen fail to launch, so I have full faith that the Bills organization, the Pegulas---knowing a good thing when they see it---would simply move on from Allen versus cutting ties with Brandon Beane and breaking up the solid working relationship he's displayed with Sean McDermott---as some suggest would be the rightful outcome. So here's to Allen panning out, but if he doesn't, it'll be good knowing the right guys are in place to right the ship. -------------------------------------------------------------- Bills 2018 Free Agent Signings: from ESPN.com Trent Murphy, DE Grade: B. The Bills are upgrading their pass rush but it will come at a cost, as Murphy becomes one of the team's highest-paid players. Kyle Williams, DT Grade: A. As long as Williams can maintain his level of play at age 35, this is a solid re-signing that will maintain some continuity of leadership in the locker room from last season's playoff team. Star Lotulelei, DT Grade: B. Without knowing the details of Lotulelei's five-year deal, it is hard to say whether the contract was worth it, but Lotulelei fills a position of desperate need for Buffalo. Vontae Davis, CB Grade: B-plus. Davis is four years older than E.J. Gaines, who he is projected to replace in Buffalo's secondary, but comes at a more reasonable price tag. Chris Ivory, RB Grade: C. Between Ivory's age (he turns 30 this month), his cost ($5.5 million base value over two years) and his production in Jacksonville, there are reasons to be skeptical about this signing for Buffalo. Jeremy Kerley - WR Marshall Newhouse - RT Russell Bodine - C Julian Stanford - OLB Tenny Palepoi - DT Phillip Gaines - CB Terrence Fede - DE Rafael Bush - S ---------------------------------------- Bills 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen - QB (1st rd) Tremaine Edmunds - MLB (1st rd) Harrison Phillips - DT (3rd rd) Taron Johnson - DB (4th rd) Siran Neal - DB (5th rd) Wyatt Teller - OG (5th rd) Ray-Ray McCloud - WR (6th rd) Austin Proehl - WR (7th rd) Edited July 15, 2018 by BurpleBull 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 You cant blame then for taking their chance......regardless of how ppl feel if it was the right QB I just think it is interesting how in a draft where they might not have many misses.......guys like Teller....Neal.....late round pick that may end up being gems I think this is gonna be a great draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Allen missed more games in college than Rosen. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I don't feel like we overpayed for Allen. Definitely not an RG3 deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: You cant blame then for taking their chance......regardless of how ppl feel if it was the right QB I just think it is interesting how in a draft where they might not have many misses.......guys like Teller....Neal.....late round pick that may end up being gems I think this is gonna be a great draft. John, you’re awesome but have you ever not liked a Bills’ personnel move? ? and I agree that I’m happy that took a qb. But I definitely question the qb they took. They took the biggest risk qb. If he doesn’t work out, they will look like giant morons because there was a ton of evidence that he will struggle. And I’ve never wanted to be more wrong about anything. I trust McDermott 100% on defense. However so far, he has been questionable at best at his offensive player evaluations. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Allen missed more games in college than Rosen. here we go! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, Mr. WEO said: here we go! I mean just because the guy’s a Bill and we want him to be great doesn’t mean we have to make up false narratives. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, stuvian said: I don't feel like we overpayed for Allen. Definitely not an RG3 deal Getting White with the KC trade back made it much brighter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 24 days! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, ColoradoBills said: Getting White with the KC trade back made it much brighter. Agreed but if Mahomes is a stud and Allen isn’t, it wasn’t worth it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Allen missed more games in college than Rosen. But to my knowledge was concussion free. I get people can argue shoulder injuries..... because you’re big you’re not invincible... etc. I do worry about concussions these days more than almost any other injury. I fully expected Rosen to be the choice and I would have been very happy with that. It was Allen, so I’ll have to live with that and pray for the best. It’s a judgement call and time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean just because the guy’s a Bill and we want him to be great doesn’t mean we have to make up false narratives. oh I know. Just getting my popcorn ready. You just tossed a bit of red meat out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: 24 days! It’s so awesome but also means summer will almost be over. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s so awesome but also means summer will almost be over. ? Plenty of Summer left after that, but at least there will be someting to actually discuss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just to play devils advocate you say Rosen is injury prone and Allen is big strong and durable but Allen also had a very bad shoulder injury which required a medical red shirt year so it’s not like he’s indestructable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Augie said: But to my knowledge was concussion free. I get people can argue shoulder injuries..... because you’re big you’re not invincible... etc. I do worry about concussions these days more than almost any other injury. I fully expected Rosen to be the choice and I would have been very happy with that. It was Allen, so I’ll have to live with that and pray for the best. It’s a judgement call and time will tell. I agree but concussions can be fluky. That team was all Rosen. He had to score 40 points/ game to have a chance. Ive always said that I would feel million times better about Allen if we had Andy Reid. I don’t trust Daboll/ McDermott. Hopefully, they are geniuses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Agreed but if Mahomes is a stud and Allen isn’t, it wasn’t worth it. "IF is the middle word in life", "can't get to the moon on fractions". To me all that's in the past. I don't like to do the "what if's" no more. But it would/will start a lot of threads. LOL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Just to play devils advocate you say Rosen is injury prone and Allen is big strong and durable but Allen also had a very bad shoulder injury which required a medical red shirt year so it’s not like he’s indestructable Yup and there are monsters like Cam and Big Ben who get hurt all the time. brady is built like a school girl and has been hurt once in his career. 1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said: "IF is the middle word in life", "can't get to the moon on fractions". To me all that's in the past. I don't like to do the "what if's" no more. But it would/will start a lot of threads. LOL Haha, fair enough. But man, Mahomes is in a great situation to succeed. One of the best qb coaches ever and studs surrounding him. I’d argue that our offense is possibly the least talented group in the nfl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yup and there are monsters like Cam and Big Ben who get hurt all the time. brady is built like a school girl and has been hurt once in his career. Haha, fair enough. But man, Mahomes is in a great situation to succeed. One of the best qb coaches ever and studs surrounding him. I’d argue that our offense is possibly the least talented group in the nfl. Yes he is. As for the Bill's offense as it sits now I could agree with bottom 1/4. It will look a lot different next year. Daboll success or failure will be key and personally I won't know that till the end of the season. Like the "brady built like a school girl" line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Mahomes is technically not a Beane decision so it should not come into the equation for evaluating his moves. i think Beane has done everything right so far. I’m good with the Allen pick. I was surprised by it but don’t have a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said: Mahomes is technically not a Beane decision so it should not come into the equation for evaluating his moves. i think Beane has done everything right so far. I’m good with the Allen pick. I was surprised by it but don’t have a problem with it. I know Beane is technically the GM but let’s be honest. McDermott has the final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean just because the guy’s a Bill and we want him to be great doesn’t mean we have to make up false narratives. Same goes the other way too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I know Beane is technically the GM but let’s be honest. McDermott has the final say. Didn't you see draft day? It's always the GM in control. *Sarcasm off* I don't care who wanted him or didn't. As long as both side were in agreement with the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 He should be fired if Rosen is good and Allen is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BurpleBull said: Hit or Miss on Allen, Beane Should Remain here. So here's to Allen panning out, but if he doesn't, it'll be good knowing the right guys are in place to right the ship, with a surer thing the next time around. Here's a song for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, The_Dude said: He should be fired if Rosen is good and Allen is not. And continue the revolving door of coaches and GM's. Good plan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Wiz said: And continue the revolving door of coaches and GM's. Good plan. Would you argue the cause. Justified. Wouldn’t trust him to take another swing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, The_Dude said: Would you argue the cause. Justified. Wouldn’t trust him to take another swing. Believe it or not, the draft isn't a science. The best you can do is make an educated guess as to whether someone is going to pan out. To stake his career on ONE draft pick is absolutely ridiculous. Additionally, he wheeled and dealed until we had a high enough pick to take a shot without completely mortgaging the future. And as for the "wouldn't trust him to take another swing" comment: Based on their success last year through the draft, I would argue that (thus far) he has a great track record of success in the draft. Yes, it's just one year. And yes, they were working with the information provided to them from Whaley's scouts. But his personnel moves, his one draft, and his ability to wheel and deal should tell you that he knows what he is doing. Why wouldn't you want him to take another shot? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) Assuming we keep on the current trajectory, I agree with the title of this thread, but not the path it has taken. Allen vs Rosen is not the big picture question. QB is hit or miss. Try again if you must and everything else is doing well....or making progress at least. Teams miss on QB’s every year. It doesn’t mean you want to start all over with new coaches, schemes and FO’s. That’s the treadmill to nowhere we’ve been on far too long! . Edited July 3, 2018 by Augie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean just because the guy’s a Bill and we want him to be great doesn’t mean we have to make up false narratives. Which is what many on this board seems to be doing. Not trying to be negative, I just see the glass 56% full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 3 hours ago, stuvian said: I don't feel like we overpayed for Allen. Definitely not an RG3 deal But we haven't seen Allen play in the NFL yet,not sure how you came to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I loved the Allen pick. But if he is a bust Beane will be gone after the 2019 season. That is just the way it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, The Wiz said: Didn't you see draft day? It's always the GM in control. *Sarcasm off* I don't care who wanted him or didn't. As long as both side were in agreement with the decision. This is the only way to look at it. The Bills needed to address the QB position and they got who they though was the best guy, at least in the draft spot that was attainable. As discussed ad nauseam last April, it's a crap shoot...no guarantees any of the top 4 QBs taken work out. If Allen does not work out, we probably revisit this past April in another three years or so, unfortunately. If this does happen, I don't think it would necessarily reflect poorly on Beane and/or McDermott and I hope they're around to try again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: John, you’re awesome but have you ever not liked a Bills’ personnel move? ? and I agree that I’m happy that took a qb. But I definitely question the qb they took. They took the biggest risk qb. If he doesn’t work out, they will look like giant morons because there was a ton of evidence that he will struggle. And I’ve never wanted to be more wrong about anything. I trust McDermott 100% on defense. However so far, he has been questionable at best at his offensive player evaluations. Who were the lower risk QB's they should have taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said: I loved the Allen pick. But if he is a bust Beane will be gone after the 2019 season. That is just the way it is. I would think that in the hopefully unlikely chance that Allen is a bust, Beane would understand it quickly enough to take another swing at getting a QB. Not double down like Whaley did, trading away way too much in hopes that he can turn around a bad QB pick like EJ was. There were some QBs available the year after EJ was drafted like Carr, Garoppolo & Bridgewater. If Whaley had shown any ability to see how bad EJ was after a year here, he could have corrected Nix's error. If Allen fails & Beane sees it quickly enough, he gets a 2nd shot. To me that means if Allen isn't showing enough, Beane would be wise to spend a 1st or 2nd on another QB in next year's draft. Unconventional going after a QB a year after trading up & drafting one, sure, but better to hedge the bet than put all your eggs in the Allen basket if he hasn't shown enough to be entrenched as the 2019 starter. It's not like teams haven't hedged on the franchise QB bet before. Many years ago the Jets had 2 rookie QBs in camp, Joe Namath & Heisman winner John Huarte. More recently in 1989 the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman #1 overall, then spent a #1 in the supplemental draft on Steve Walsh. Eventually they recouped the #1 by trading Walsh to the Saints when Aikman proved to be the franchise QB they were looking for. Other hedges have included Washington trading a ton to St.Louis for RGIII at pick #2 overall, then taking Cousins in the 4th round. The Redskins also hedged when they drafted Heath Schuler & Gus Frerrotte in the same draft. In both cases the #1 pick bombed & the other guy ended up starting. Edited July 3, 2018 by Albany,n.y. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 So to review: In this thread, Bills fans have applauded the GM for his QB selection, decided it may not be the right choice, but determined he should remain the GM even if it was not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 hours ago, The_Dude said: Would you argue the cause. Justified. Wouldn’t trust him to take another swing. Why? This guy was considered by some to be the overall pick in the draft.....why should we fault Beane if he doesnt work out..... AND He did it with house money.....not losing future 1st round draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Misterbluesky said: But we haven't seen Allen play in the NFL yet,not sure how you came to that conclusion. Obviously he was talking about what we had to give up vs what the Redskins gave up. To move up to 7 he Bills gave up pick 12 (which includes 1st moving up by trading Glenn) and picks 53 & 56 (which was for letting the Rams have Watkins for a year & the Bills got the pick & Gaines for a year). Meanwhile to move up to 2, the Redskins gave up 6, pick 39 in 2012, their 1st in 2013 (22nd) and their 1st in 2014 (#2 overall) Just the fact that the Bills didn't give up any other #1s except pick 12 proves it was a much safer trade than what Washington did. It's not even close, they gave up 3 #1s, one of which turned out to be the 2nd pick of the draft (which the Rams wasted on a bust, Greg Robinson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Barring an elite defense and/or Peterman/McCarron becoming the next Kirk Cousins, you can probably say goodbye to Beane and McDermott if Allen is a bust. It's just the way the NFL works. 37 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: So to review: In this thread, Bills fans have applauded the GM for his QB selection, decided it may not be the right choice, but determined he should remain the GM even if it was not. That thought crossed my mind about 30 seconds after the Allen pick when I was frantically going through the 2019 NFL QB draft prospects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) Hit or miss on Allen, it's WAY WAY WAY too early to say. So far, I am a major fan, but we simply don't have enough info yet. Edited July 3, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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