Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

[BurpleBull]

On 7/3/2018 at 1:30 AM, Fadingpain said:

So to review:

 

In this thread, Bills fans have applauded the GM for his QB selection, decided it may not be the right choice, but determined he should remain the GM even if it was not.

 

 

 

 

Beane's decision to draft Allen is understandable despite him being a high-risk, high-reward prospect.

 

His moves during last season along with solid production from this off-season's signings and beyond should only solidify his position as GM in spite of Allen failing to develop into that franchise QB.

 

That's the point being brought out.

 

The direction that the franchise is  moving in won't be determined by Allen's failure to pan out.

 

What the Bills have in place is far greater than Allen.

[BurpleBull]

On 7/2/2018 at 7:40 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Just to play devils advocate

 

you say Rosen is injury prone and Allen is big strong and durable 

 

but

 

Allen also had a very bad shoulder injury which required a medical red shirt year so it’s not like he’s indestructable 

 

I used the term 'oft-injured', but I guess 'injury prone' could work too.

 

Josh Rosen played 6 games his sophomore year, missed the rest of that season due to a shoulder injury and suffered two concussions in the span of four weeks his junior year.

 

Josh Allen suffered a really bad shoulder injury his redshirt sophomore year and never had any other significant shoulder issues until the end of his junior year despite having the more aggressive style of play between the two.

 

Allen: 237 rush att. 737 yds.

 

Rosen: 109 rush att. -154 yds.

 

The second injury to Allen's shoulder, which caused him to miss the final two games, wasn't even thought to be related to the injury he suffered at the start of his career at Wyoming.

 

I never described Allen as 'indestructible', but I would say Josh Allen seems by far the more durable QB of the two.

 

[billsfan89]

A GM is heavily tied to his team's performance (obviously) and the QB decisions heavily impact how well a team does. So if Allen is a bust and Beane doesn't find a good QB (Which if Allen is a bust will be unlikely) then, of course, the team won't sustain success and then a regime change will happen. There have been a ton of GM's who have made "Good at the time" decisions and they just didn't pan out for various reasons (some in their control other not) and then they eventually get canned. 

 

Trading up for a QB was the right move, the positioning to acquire assets and clear cap space were the right decisions. But if the QB you pick can't cut it then in a results-driven industry it won't matter if the moves were "right at the time." Results are the only thing that count. 

[Nihilarian]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:51 PM, Formerly Allan in MD said:

The guy's been a GM only one year and his team went to the playoffs.  Yet we're discussing whether he should stay or go?

Seriously lame isn't it.

 

This franchise gave a clown like Dick Jauron Mr. 7-9, AKA Skeletor four years. Greg Williams got three years. Gailey got three years. Talk about wasting time... Then Big Mouth Rex Ryan justifiably was fired after two seasons for destroying a top-five defense.

 

Both Mularkey and Marrone quit on the team for different reasons and in Saint Doug's case, I don't blame him for not wanting to work under Whaley.

 

The Bills currently have a head coach and GM that actually seem to know what they are doing NFL football-wise. I happen to love what McD and Beane have done so far in making the playoffs and trading away overpaid dead weight. My take is Josh Allen was the #1 QB in the draft until someone leaked his tweets. 

 

Even if somehow Allen fails due to a bad offense and line I still think the kid is a perfect fit in Buffalo. Big, tough, strong arm who is used to playing in cold weather. (sound like another QB who Bills fans love?) A young man who lives to play football and had 900 colleges turn him down until he found Wyoming (at that time he was 6'3 180 lbs) and in his senior season had no veteran players to work with and yet still went 8-5 and won their bowl game. 

 

On a side note, Beane still killed this year's draft with Allen, Edmunds, and Phillips. 

 

 

 

[BurpleBull]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:44 PM, BullBuchanan said:

I will absolutely blame Bean if he fails or is worse than Rosen/Rudolph, and McDermott gets the blame if he isn't better than Watson/Mahomes, which I think is a near certainty based on Watson alone. They gave up a tremendous amount of capital to get this kid going back to last year, and he'll have to be better at the highest level of football than he was at any point in his life.

I think it's far more likely this sets our rebuild back 3-5 years. If Beane doesn't immediately course correct when he flops, it should cost him his job.

 

How?

 

The way I see it, only the giving up of future draft picks ---which Beane didn't do---could set the Bills back the way you suggest.

 

 

 

 

[Mat68]

Exec's that have survived cut the cord quickly.  With the capital invested that is not an option.  Beane and a lesser extent McDermott are both liable.  If Allen busts and Taylor leads Cleveland to the playoffs they never hold the same positions in the NFL again.

[3rdand12]

On 7/5/2018 at 7:17 PM, THE SLAMMER said:

I have no doubt if Buffalo is in need of another QB, THE BEANER will strike

you never hear the subtle hissing.
only in aftersight will you know.
and i have no issue with them drafting another one in the first round

 

 in 18 years after Allen retires to do Monday Night Football and play Pro Golf at the same time

On 7/8/2018 at 6:35 PM, billsfan89 said:

A GM is heavily tied to his team's performance (obviously) and the QB decisions heavily impact how well a team does. So if Allen is a bust and Beane doesn't find a good QB (Which if Allen is a bust will be unlikely) then, of course, the team won't sustain success and then a regime change will happen. There have been a ton of GM's who have made "Good at the time" decisions and they just didn't pan out for various reasons (some in their control other not) and then they eventually get canned. 

 

Trading up for a QB was the right move, the positioning to acquire assets and clear cap space were the right decisions. But if the QB you pick can't cut it then in a results-driven industry it won't matter if the moves were "right at the time." Results are the only thing that count. 

and you need to be able to move on. One thing Beanes did was  , Not sell the farm for Allen .

well done Mr Beanes !

 

 

[billsfan89]

58 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

you never hear the subtle hissing.
only in aftersight will you know.
and i have no issue with them drafting another one in the first round

 

 in 18 years after Allen retires to do Monday Night Football and play Pro Golf at the same time

and you need to be able to move on. One thing Beanes did was  , Not sell the farm for Allen .

well done Mr Beanes !

 

 

 

Cordy Glenn a very good Left Tackle, pick 21, pick 53 and pick 56 may not be the farm but that's a lot to give up. If Allen is a bust that decision may prove to be hard to come back from since it would be sinking not only a lot of draft capital and a good (Although injured in recent seasons) veteran player into drafting Allen but you could see him start 2-3 seasons and play poorly at the one position that could sink a season. 

 

I just don't see Beane coming back from Allen being a bust.

[BurpleBull]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Exec's that have survived cut the cord quickly.  With the capital invested that is not an option.  Beane and a lesser extent McDermott are both liable.  If Allen busts and Taylor leads Cleveland to the playoffs they never hold the same positions in the NFL again.

 

Why would McDermott be permanently out of the running for HC forever if Josh Allen failed to live up to expectations?

 

And why do you make Beane out to be the equivalent of Rex Ryan should Josh Allen fail to live up to expectations?

 

There's so much life that Beane brings to the organization...that couldn't necessarily be said about past GMs.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Exec's that have survived cut the cord quickly.  With the capital invested that is not an option.  Beane and a lesser extent McDermott are both liable.  If Allen busts and Taylor leads Cleveland to the playoffs they never hold the same positions in the NFL again.

 

Sure, let’s dump the GM for a new guy who wants his own coach, who has his own schemes, which talkes all your draft picks to replace what you just...... JUST NO! Teams miss on a QB more than they hit. You don’t throw it all out just because you missed on the QB roulette.  You try again with the same FO, as long as all else seems to be on the right path. 

[BurpleBull]

9 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Cordy Glenn a very good Left Tackle, pick 21, pick 53 and pick 56 may not be the farm but that's a lot to give up. If Allen is a bust that decision may prove to be hard to come back from since it would be sinking not only a lot of draft capital and a good (Although injured in recent seasons) veteran player into drafting Allen but you could see him start 2-3 seasons and play poorly at the one position that could sink a season. 

 

I just don't see Beane coming back from Allen being a bust.

 

Cordy Glenn was somewhat overrated IMO. I always felt he fell in the same category as Stephon Gilmore, with both being good, but Glenn being slightly better---making his worth to the team greater.

 

Always felt Cyrus Kuoandjio was the more imposing pass blocker and with more quickness to take on speed rushers, maybe through weight loss, would have easily been the better pass protector between himself and Glenn.

 

Couple that with the ongoing injuries, I don't think the loss of Glenn is as great as it may seem on the surface.

 

I think Beane was able to see past the surface and made his move.

 

Glenn may have turned into one of those players that Bills' fans criticized for a drop in play after a big payday.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Cordy Glenn was somewhat overrated IMO. I always felt he fell in the same category as Stephon Gilmore, with both being good, but Glenn being slightly better---making his worth to the team greater.

 

Glenn had his issues - the injuries are piling up and beginning to linger, no doubt. But when he was on the field he was an absolute rock solid top 10 left tackle and bordering top 5 or 6, equally adept in pass protection and the run game. If you are talking his time in the league and people at the position who have outshone him over that period, it is a very, very elite little group. To me other than Shady he was, when healthy, the best player on this football team in both 2015 and 2016.  Injuries really hurt in 2017 and that forced them to bring Dawkins along faster than most expected... and that is why he was expendable.  But he was no throw away piece. If Cincy get a healthy Cordy Glenn their line will instantly get a major, major upgrade. Glenn was underrated around here throughout pretty much his whole stay.  

[BurpleBull]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Glenn had his issues - the injuries are piling up and beginning to linger, no doubt. But when he was on the field he was an absolute rock solid top 10 left tackle and bordering top 5 or 6, equally adept in pass protection and the run game. If you are talking his time in the league and people at the position who have outshone him over that period, it is a very, very elite little group. To me other than Shady he was, when healthy, the best player on this football team in both 2015 and 2016.  Injuries really hurt in 2017 and that forced them to bring Dawkins along faster than most expected... and that is why he was expendable.  But he was no throw away piece. If Cincy get a healthy Cordy Glenn their line will instantly get a major, major upgrade. Glenn was underrated around here throughout pretty much his whole stay.  

 

No doubt about Cincy getting a major upgrade if healthy. I just never thought of him as an elite OT. 

 

There's serviceable, then solid, and then whatever comes after solid, I thought of Glenn as that---just a cut under elite when healthy.

Edited July 12, 2018 by BurpleBull

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Cordy Glenn was somewhat overrated IMO. I always felt he fell in the same category as Stephon Gilmore, with both being good, but Glenn being slightly better---making his worth to the team greater.

 

Always felt Cyrus Kuoandjio was the more imposing pass blocker and with more quickness to take on speed rushers, maybe through weight loss, would have easily been the better pass protector between himself and Glenn.

 

Couple that with the ongoing injuries, I don't think the loss of Glenn is as great as it may seem on the surface.

 

I think Beane was able to see past the surface and made his move.

 

Glenn may have turned into one of those players that Bills' fans criticized for a drop in play after a big payday.

 

 

When a 2nd round pick OT ends up being as good as Cordy was they are anything but over rated.....Cordy was excellent left tackle and we scored on that one......the problem is as soon as his health started suffering things started going downhill quick.

 

It is hard to even remember how good he was because he barely played last year....in no way was Kujo EVER as good as Cordy Glenn.

 

I have high hopes for Dawkins.....he is nimble for a big man, strong as a bull, and has a nasty attitude about him on the field......to me that is the one position on the field that is not really in question.  

 

I have always liked Miller and felt that he got a bum wrap....when we moved away from the power scheme it hurt him....I am hoping he can come back and be a mainstay at that spot......center and RT are my worries.

[Ramza86]

Agreed. I think anyone with a brain would understand the situation the teams that got a top QB were in. 

 

With all those guys there and available...its makes the most sense to draft/trade up and not sell the farm. Imagine if Cleveland was picking 1st and didnt need a QB and only Josh Allen came out that year. I will guarantee you a team would have made some farm selling offers for that pick. 

 

The value was too good to pass up. 

 

Now if Josh Rosen becomes elite and Allen busts....there will be backlash.

[BurpleBull]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

When a 2nd round pick OT ends up being as good as Cordy was they are anything but over rated.....Cordy was excellent left tackle and we scored on that one......the problem is as soon as his health started suffering things started going downhill quick.

 

It is hard to even remember how good he was because he barely played last year....in no way was Kujo EVER as good as Cordy Glenn.

 

I have high hopes for Dawkins.....he is nimble for a big man, strong as a bull, and has a nasty attitude about him on the field......to me that is the one position on the field that is not really in question.  

 

I have always liked Miller and felt that he got a bum wrap....when we moved away from the power scheme it hurt him....I am hoping he can come back and be a mainstay at that spot......center and RT are my worries.

 

Kuoandjio was pretty damn strong. Certainly against bullrushes, that Glenn could be seen being driven back by at times. I was hopeful that he could develop some quickness and man the LT while Glenn was flipped to RT, but his own bizarre Zay-like off-season killed any chance of that.

 

I'm not saying he was ever better than Glenn overall, but he was certainly the more powerful of the two and I think he could've grown into that LT position. 

 

He had the better size and appeared more dominating than Glenn at times while manning LT.

 

I guess you're not that confident in Groy; everybody seemed to love him as Eric Wood's backup

[Lfod]

On 7/8/2018 at 6:35 PM, billsfan89 said:

A GM is heavily tied to his team's performance (obviously) and the QB decisions heavily impact how well a team does. So if Allen is a bust and Beane doesn't find a good QB (Which if Allen is a bust will be unlikely) then, of course, the team won't sustain success and then a regime change will happen. There have been a ton of GM's who have made "Good at the time" decisions and they just didn't pan out for various reasons (some in their control other not) and then they eventually get canned. 

 

Trading up for a QB was the right move, the positioning to acquire assets and clear cap space were the right decisions. But if the QB you pick can't cut it then in a results-driven industry it won't matter if the moves were "right at the time." Results are the only thing that count. 

I agree completely. It's about the results. You have to factor in McDermott. He hired the OC and staff that will work with Josh Allen. So give it 2 or 3 years and if the Bills haven't done anything then seats probably will be hot. If McDermott has to fire a second OC it won't be good. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Lfod

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

No doubt about Cindy getting a major upgrade if healthy. I just never though of him as an elite OT. 

 

There's serviceable, then solid, and then whatever comes after solid, I thought of Glenn as that---just a cut under elite when healthy.

 

I think he was right on the elite borderline in that there were 5 I'd say were definitely better then he was in the next group.

[Big Gun]

On 7/2/2018 at 7:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games in college than Rosen.

I prefer Allen to Rosen because of attitude and no Beane shouldn't lose his job if Allen busts. 

 

27 games played for Allen and 30 for Rosen 

 

and for all the crying that went on about how Tyrods rushing stats should be included need to compare Rosen and Allens rushing stats. It's comical.

 

Rosen

 

	Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	UCLA					109	-154	-1.4	6	0	0		0	109	-154	-1.4	6
*2015	UCLA	Pac-12	FR	QB	13	37	15	0.4	2	0	0		0	37	15	0.4	2
2016	UCLA	Pac-12	SO	QB	6	22	-72	-3.3	2	0	0		0	22	-72	-3.3	2
*2017	UCLA	Pac-12	JR	QB	11	50	-97	-1.9	2	0	0		0	50	-97	-1.9	2

 

Allen

 

	Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Wyoming					237	767	3.2	12	2	6	3.0	1	239	773	3.2	13
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	3	40	13.3	0	0	0		0	3	40	13.3	0
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	142	523	3.7	7	1	4	4.0	1	143	527	3.7	8
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	92	204	2.2	5	1	2	2.0	0	93	206	2.2	5

 

 

Maybe this and attitude swayed Beans decision.

Edited July 11, 2018 by PeterGriffin

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Lfod said:

I agree completely. It's about the results. You have to factor in McDermott. He hired the OC and staff that will work with Josh Allen. So give it 2 or 3 years and if the Bills haven't done anything then seats probably will be hot. If McDermott has to fire a second OC it won't be good. 

 

McD has only been here for 1 year, granted that was one hell of a year but the results are limited. Tons of coaches who had fantastic opening years but then went on to not have a good long-term tenure. Now I like most of the moves on paper this regime has made. But 2018 might be a rough 6-10 type year and 2019 this new regime might be on a shorter leash.