Shaq Lawson on roster bubble

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Did you have him above Roquan Smith?

Lorax was on WGR a few days after the draft and he mentioned that McDermott/Beane had Edmunds above Smith.  

 

I had Roquan ahead of him--he was 8th on my board and Edmunds was 10th.

 

Edmunds, however, had the highest "potential" grade of any player in this class on my board.

Edited June 25, 2018 by thebandit27

[Punching Bag]

On 6/23/2018 at 6:40 AM, ColdFront_USAF said:

There was another team that drafted a pass rusher in the first, 31st overall in 2010. They only used him in spot duty, only getting a few starts in his 3 seasons with that team. After not having a ton of success in spot duty, they traded him to another team for a JAG linebacker drafted a year after him. He immediately earned a starting spot, and signed a big contract in 2015, while the linebacker they traded for was sent packing after the 2013 season, and is now out of he league after spending time with several different teams. 

 

Sound familiar? It should. The Colts gave up on Jerry Hughes after 3 limited seasons, and the Bills have been reaping the benefits ever since. I'm not going to say Shaq will enjoy similar success. Only that you don't give up on a 1st round talent entering his 3rd season unless there are serious locker room/effort/injury concerns (the kind that don't heal and will effect his career outlook). As much as I've been disappointed with him so far, he's only been in the league for 2 years. Let's give the guy a chance before moving on. 

 

Difference was he was behind two very good DEs on a defense which did not rotate their lineman as much.

 

Can you says same thing for Lawson? 

He should get a chance of course but this is part of issue in NFL with guaranteed contracts - no guarantee players will perform.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Difference was he was behind two very good DEs on a defense which did not rotate their lineman as much.

 

Can you says same thing for Lawson? 

He should get a chance of course but this is part of issue in NFL with guaranteed contracts - no guarantee players will perform.

 

In Freeney's last year with the Colts (which was also Hughes' last year), he notched just 5 sacks and was then released.  Mathis had 8 sacks and to that point was averaging about 9 sacks a year.  He had his career year (19.5 sacks) the year after Hughes was traded. 

 

What does that mean for Lawson?  Who knows? 

[Augie]

I wish this had been a poll. YES, unless he’s traded. 

[Buffalo86]

When team after team passed on Lawson & he fell to us, it was obvious that Doug Whaley and Rex Ryan had just outsmarted the rest of the NFL

[blacklabel]

Yes, he will make it and will play an important role. And there's no way Beane would simply cut the kid. Not when he knows there would be a number of teams interested in a young DE who maybe just didn't land in the right situation.

 

But it seems clear that Shaq has gotten the message. I sense that he was the type of player who felt like he would be able to coast on his athleticism without putting in the extra effort needed in the NFL. Clearly, that mindset doesn't fly McDermott. 

 

I think the kid will turn the corner and show us something this season. 

[mschifano]

On 6/23/2018 at 9:39 AM, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

All the talk of him slimming down and getting quicker off the ball may of just been smoke for trade bait

 

Could be time will tell. I think u don’t move on from a DE that u have for 2 more years at a reasonable contract who could prove to be a monster in the rotation. 

[NewEra]

On 6/23/2018 at 7:29 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The one thing Lawson has going for him is a cheap contract.  Think he may have to outplay Hughes, they then keep Shaq and cut Hughes for $$ reasons.  I also do agree not likely at all he gets cut, but do see him getting traded.  Which may also play into the first part I stated, do we cut Hughes to save money or trade Shaq.  Think if it came down to those two options they trade him, assuming he doesn't light things up. 

If we trade Jerry,  I’ll be skeptical of the move.  He’s a very good pass rusher, by far our best imo.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Buffalo86 said:

When team after team passed on Lawson & he fell to us, it was obvious that Doug Whaley and Rex Ryan had just outsmarted the rest of the NFL

might have outsmarted themselves as well 

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If we trade Jerry,  I’ll be skeptical of the move.  He’s a very good pass rusher, by far our best imo.

I would be disappointed if they moved on from either of them this season

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Buffalo86 said:

When team after team passed on Lawson & he fell to us, it was obvious that Doug Whaley and Rex Ryan had just outsmarted the rest of the NFL

 

Well....this could be said of every player. Every team passes over them until, you know, someone picks them.     ?

 

But it still doesn’t mean Rex isn’t a clown. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 6/23/2018 at 4:54 PM, NewDayBills said:

Kansas City is really high on Ragland too, I'm not sure if that's just media propaganda but they think he has All Pro potential. I personally think Shaq should be kept on for a bit, Jerry Hughes is not getting any younger, Murphy/Lawson could be the future. 

 

All Pro?   I can buy the idea that they think he could make a pro bowl trip one day....... but the All Pro level for inside linebackers is really reserved for LB's that can also play the pass like a safety.   That will simply never happen for Ragnuts.   

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

All Pro?   I can buy the idea that they think he could make a pro bowl trip one day....... but the All Pro level for inside linebackers is really reserved for LB's that can also play the pass like a safety.   That will simply never happen for Ragnuts.   

 

How many 3-4 ILB's get voted All-Pro anyway?

[ProcessYaDigg]

YES!!!!  He's not going anywhere yet.

[Sky Diver]

Strange that the Bills couldn't find a place on the roster for Ragland as a situational player.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/6/20/17481580/chiefs-pro-scouting-series-reggie-ragland

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

Strange that the Bills couldn't find a place on the roster for Ragland as a situational player.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/6/20/17481580/chiefs-pro-scouting-series-reggie-ragland

Several of the trades and releases have made us a worse football team overall.  Hopefully the shift in scheme fit and culture starts paying off soon, but I doubt we'll be competing for anything this season.

[Sky Diver]

22 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Several of the trades and releases have made us a worse football team overall.  Hopefully the shift in scheme fit and culture starts paying off soon, but I doubt we'll be competing for anything this season.

 

I suspect that trading Ragland was more scheme than cultural fit. He's a good guy as far as I know. 

[Avisan]

9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

I suspect that trading Ragland was more scheme than cultural fit. He's a good guy as far as I know. 

Yeah, definitely scheme.  Dude is a baller though, definitely think he could have had a place here.  Oh well.

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Yeah, definitely scheme.  Dude is a baller though, definitely think he could have had a place here.  Oh well.

 

KC got a gift.

[BADOLBILZ]

19 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Not sure...if I had to guess, I would say that it was a mixture of positional value taking precedence (vis a vis 4 QBs going in the top 10) and teams not being excited about drafting a 19-year old kid.

 

 

On the hoof.......probably the guy with the most potential in the entire draft.

 

It's hard to say for sure whether playing at MLB at VA Tech hurt his stock but I think it did.    If he had been coming off the edge and put up 6-7 sacks as a 19 year old he might have been the first position player drafted as an edge rusher in this particular draft.

 

But the uncertainty about just how good he can be at edge positions and some *probably* youth-related issues with reactions at the MLB position made him available to the Bills.    

 

Very excited about this dude.   He's got a chance to BECOME the unrealistic comparison for future players.

[KW95 - JA17]

Whether Hughes plays or not, won't change one thing.

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

On the hoof.......probably the guy with the most potential in the entire draft.

 

It's hard to say for sure whether playing at MLB at VA Tech hurt his stock but I think it did.    If he had been coming off the edge and put up 6-7 sacks as a 19 year old he might have been the first position player drafted as an edge rusher in this particular draft.

 

But the uncertainty about just how good he can be at edge positions and some *probably* youth-related issues with reactions at the MLB position made him available to the Bills.    

 

Very excited about this dude.   He's got a chance to BECOME the unrealistic comparison for future players.

 

Absolutely; highest upside by a good margin IMO--the type of guy that you spend a high draft pick on without hesitation because of what he can become.

Edited June 26, 2018 by thebandit27

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Avisan said:

Several of the trades and releases have made us a worse football team overall.  Hopefully the shift in scheme fit and culture starts paying off soon, but I doubt we'll be competing for anything this season.

First playoff birth in over a decade last year

i think it is paying off?

[GreggTX]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:35 AM, costrovs said:

The 2019 draft is loaded with DT and DE prospects. Plus his rookie contract isnt up until 2020, I'm sure they'll keep him around this year and draft a DE in round 1 or 2 to replace him before they let him go.

Maybe, but I kinda doubt it when we need a CB, Speed WR and serious OL help among other needs. Besides, they just signed T Murphy to start opposite Hughes. They can't start 3 DE's. Maybe if they don't retain Hughes??? Still, I think it pays to address your weakest positions as a priority if you already have a good QB. Let's hope our QB quandry is finally over.

[3rdand12]

52 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Maybe, but I kinda doubt it when we need a CB, Speed WR and serious OL help among other needs. Besides, they just signed T Murphy to start opposite Hughes. They can't start 3 DE's. Maybe if they don't retain Hughes??? Still, I think it pays to address your weakest positions as a priority if you already have a good QB. Let's hope our QB quandry is finally over.

I do not see Bills looking at D line unless some trade backs happens and get some draft capital.

 BPA ? sure. But i would rather they picked up and OLBs for either side if picking in the 1st or second round, ideally. DT later perhaps.

But I agree offense should be next years focus.

 consider Bills fill gaps in Offense via FA ( gots cash stacked ) and then can actually draft BPA next year.
wow that would be fun !!

 Drafting for need is not optimum but Bills did it this year. Lets see if that works for them !

[Avisan]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

First playoff birth in over a decade last year

i think it is paying off?

We lucked in at 9-7 when previous seasons it had been insufficient.  I'm happy for last season's berth, but I'm expecting our offense to struggle even more this season.

[John from Riverside]

"When in previous years it would have been insufficient" bla bla bla

 

It was a winning record

It doesnt matter if you make the playoffs by a game or 5....it matters that you make it

In the middle of a soft rebiuld no less

Justify your "lucked into" all you want......no such thing

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

On 6/25/2018 at 6:47 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

All Pro?   I can buy the idea that they think he could make a pro bowl trip one day....... but the All Pro level for inside linebackers is really reserved for LB's that can also play the pass like a safety.   That will simply never happen for Ragnuts.   

Fans conflate Pro Bowl with All-Pro far too often. Huge difference. 

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Absolutely; highest upside by a good margin IMO--the type of guy that you spend a high draft pick on without hesitation because of what he can become.

All pro/best lb in the nfl upside , steal of the draft imo. If he pans out , him and Tre in back to back drafts is pretty amazing.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 6/20/2018 at 11:32 AM, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

I wouldn't go that far. Not yet, at least. And I believe the pick was pushed hard by Rex. Remember the "Sack Lawson" comment, and of course, the Clemson helmet?

 

Not trying to make excuses for the guy here (I think), but he's had to learn 2 very different defenses in his first 2 years in the NFL, and he missed valuable PT as a rookie due to injury. I think he fully understands what he needs to do, and Beane made that very clear. And so far, it seems that he got the message loud and clear. Let it play out before calling him a "waste".

 

Drafted with a known injury = waste.

 

[KW95 - JA17]

On 6/26/2018 at 9:23 PM, Avisan said:

We lucked in at 9-7 when previous seasons it had been insufficient.  I'm happy for last season's berth, but I'm expecting our offense to struggle even more this season.

 

I'll take lucking in everytime over 18 years of lucking out.  Get a grip dude.

 

Also, with better First half 2 minute offense and scoring a TD rather than a field goal on the 1 yard line, this lucked in team would have been playing in the second round of playoffs.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
inappropriate language

[elroy16]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Drafted with a known injury = waste.

 

 

 

That's hilariously short sighted.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, elroy16 said:

 

 

That's hilariously short sighted.

 

is it really?

 

I'm not opposed to taking guys with injury...outside of the first round.

 

in today's NFL, you need your firsts to come in and contribute immediately. A third rounder? not so much.

 

[elroy16]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

is it really?

 

I'm not opposed to taking guys with injury...outside of the first round.

 

in today's NFL, you need your firsts to come in and contribute immediately. A third rounder? not so much.

 

 

 

 

If it's an injury that someone can fully recover from, I don't have a problem with drafting a guy in the first that might miss some time. Obviously guys bust all the time that look like sure things, so I can definitely understand your side of the argument.

 

Saying you'll do it outside of the first is fair, but for me there would still be exceptions.  

 

[John from Riverside]

On 6/27/2018 at 7:49 AM, joesixpack said:

 

is it really?

 

I'm not opposed to taking guys with injury...outside of the first round.

 

in today's NFL, you need your firsts to come in and contribute immediately. A third rounder? not so much.

 

It depends on the upside of the talent for me.....if Shaq were to be this immense pass rushing talent that we had to wait a year for Im still ok with a first round selection.

 

My fear when I hear him talk is motivation.....does he really need to be in year 3 to "get it"

 

John H.

[Mr. WEO]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:49 AM, joesixpack said:

 

is it really?

 

I'm not opposed to taking guys with injury...outside of the first round.

 

in today's NFL, you need your firsts to come in and contribute immediately. A third rounder? not so much.

 

 

He was a day one starter "coming off the bus'......that's not immediate enough for you?!

[OldTimer1960]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:09 PM, blacklabel said:

Yes, he will make it and will play an important role. And there's no way Beane would simply cut the kid. Not when he knows there would be a number of teams interested in a young DE who maybe just didn't land in the right situation.

 

But it seems clear that Shaq has gotten the message. I sense that he was the type of player who felt like he would be able to coast on his athleticism without putting in the extra effort needed in the NFL. Clearly, that mindset doesn't fly McDermott. 

 

I think the kid will turn the corner and show us something this season. 

He does seem to have gotten the message and is reported to have shed some significant weight.  Let's hope that he stays in shape and doesn't back-slide and also that the reduced weight improves his quickness.  I think I remember an interview with the Clemson coach when Lawson was drafted.  In that interview, he pretty much said that Lawson wasn't a big fan of working in the gym.  Hopefully, that has changed.

[reddogblitz]

On 6/26/2018 at 8:13 PM, John from Riverside said:

"When in previous years it would have been insufficient" bla bla bla

 

It was a winning record

It doesnt matter if you make the playoffs by a game or 5....it matters that you make it

In the middle of a soft rebiuld no less

Justify your "lucked into" all you want......no such thing

 

 

 

had we blown that Indy game of our QB thrown a pick vs the Bucs late in the 4th (past Bills teams would have blown at least one of those if not  both) we'd have been just like all the 17 drought teams.

 

I'm sure you also regularly dog the 2015 Steelers who got in because we beat Fitzy and the Jets in the last game of the season.

 

luck my arse.  Skill.

Edited June 28, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Bing Bong]

On 6/26/2018 at 2:11 PM, John from Riverside said:

First playoff birth in over a decade last year

i think it is paying off?

Sure. But why dump rookie contracts for late rounders. Really wouldn't have hurt to have had Ragland rotating for Humber and LorAx.. scheme or no scheme he's cheap and 1st round grade and there's always a situation for a good player in-game. Unless it is THE PROCESS (our feeble explanation of dumping talent)

[John from Riverside]

44 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Sure. But why dump rookie contracts for late rounders. Really wouldn't have hurt to have had Ragland rotating for Humber and LorAx.. scheme or no scheme he's cheap and 1st round grade and there's always a situation for a good player in-game. Unless it is THE PROCESS (our feeble explanation of dumping talent)

Because Ragland CANT MOVE.......

 

Take a look at Edmunds....what are his traits compared to past MLBs.....now take a look at McD defenses....what do his LB's do?

 

 

[Bing Bong]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Ragland CANT MOVE.......

 

Take a look at Edmunds....what are his traits compared to past MLBs.....now take a look at McD defenses....what do his LB's do?

 

 

What do his LB's do? Not much from last year.