GreggTX Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 It seems the folks at PFF don't think very highly of our draft at all. Your response? The Bills review starts at about 2:45 in from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Well in that graphic they got Watson and Trubisky's logos backwards. Pretty unimpressive for "detailed stats guys". 4 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Sad that on the internet anyone claiming to be an expert is taken by many as an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 ...wasn't it PFF who voted Miller as the 2nd most improved in 2016 which many have torched?......are they reliable or does anybody care?..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 PFF. Lol. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Trying to conclusively grade a draft before anyone takes a snap in a regular season game is akin to judging someone on buying a pack of trading cards before the pack is even open. All you can judge is...did teams adddess points of need. You cannot judge how well they did so. Buffalo got a high-pick QB...their most glaring need. They nabbed a linebacker, also high need and a defensive tackle which is will be a need with Williams retiring soon. As such, I think it looks like an outstanding draft. As to how well these specific players will actually fill the holes...that's impossible to tell right now. Too early. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play too many variables 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Sad that on the internet anyone claiming to be an expert is taken by many as an expert. I am a French model...... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play too many variables Analytics are just a tool. They aren’t a substitute for watching film. They are often used here with no context or common sense. Edited May 28, 2018 by Sky Diver 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...wasn't it PFF who voted Miller as the 2nd most improved in 2016 which many have torched?......are they reliable or does anybody care?..... Nobody cares. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: PFF. Lol. ...I'm not the grammar police, but I believe you left out a letter......... PFFT-used to convey the suddenness of a malfunction, disappearance, ending, etc. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Analytics are just a tool. They aren’t a substitute for watching film. They are often used here with no context or common sense. Even watching film a scout/evaluator must be on his game i couldn’t tell you how many times I was breaking down film and someone says look at corner X, he just got toasted off the line . QB Z missed him bad and I’m like slow down and watch the play for 2 more seconds. It’s clealry a soft cover 2 shell and he let the WR run by him to bait the QB with the safety Who knows how PFF would look at that. As a blown man assignment or as good cover 2 ball 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Everyone is entitled to their opinion One thing I do not agree with in their evaluation Allen.....good when he had good players around him Allen.....drop off when he lost those players Their theory.....does not hold water because the defenses were not good players IF PLAYERS DROP BALLS THAT HIT THEM RIGHT IN THE HANDS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QB THROWING IT OR THE DEFENSES FACED....THEY ARE SIMPLY DROPPING THE BALLS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am not an expert, but I have watched every single game Josh Allen played in at Wyoming. I don't understand how anyone can watch his games and and put together a critique like this without the following disclaimer: *** His O-line was an absolutely pathetic, leaking sieve and the guy was running for his life for 2 years. Hopefully we get him better protection than he had at Wyoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I'm pretty excited to see Allen in action for the Bills, nothing I read about him will change that. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I like checking on PFF stats and I do believe in a lot of instances it can be useful, but to claim that NFL teams and scouts are going by your "draft guide" to make their picks is complete bullsh*t. If that were the case you wouldn't be posting youtube videos, you would actually be on an NFL staff somewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 They're out of their minds if they think Edmunds is a reach. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, H2o said: I like checking on PFF stats and I do believe in a lot of instances it can be useful, but to claim that NFL teams and scouts are going by your "draft guide" to make their picks is complete bullsh*t. If that were the case you wouldn't be posting youtube videos, you would actually be on an NFL staff somewhere. I didn’t even watch the video lol did they really say teams use their “draft guide “ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 The evaluation of the draft will rise or fall with how Josh Allen ends up doing in his career. I actually hope that he does not play too much this year because whoever the QB is will likely face some adversity. It might be wise not to throw Josh in the fire. The Bills gave up a lot to make all of the moves they did to be able to pick him (starting with the trade last year). Allen clearly is not the darling of the analytics people whereas Baker Mayfield is. Allen can make throws that few people can make and struggles with some throws nearly every professional QB can make consistently. I am not sure how many drops he had (I have read some who claim that this is overstated). On the other hand, if he had only completed 10 more passes, he would have had a 60% completion rate. 10 more completions is not so many. I have no idea whether Josh Allen will end up being the "franchise QB" we have been waiting for, but I am willing to give him a chance when he is ready to play (whenever that is) . . . as we all should. He seems like a good guy and he has embraced Buffalo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Just now, Buffalo716 said: I didn’t even watch the video lol did they really say teams use their “draft guide “ lol Yes, in a round about way by saying you can kind of see teams looked like they were going by it and that it was in circulation among NFL scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I can't believe people actually care about this stuff. What makes these people's opinions better or more valuable than yours? When these kids suit up for the Bills, you can make your own educated opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 PFF = pff't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, H2o said: Yes, in a round about way by saying you can kind of see teams looked like they were going by it and that it was in circulation among NFL scouts. Yep its because PFF has many more resources available to them then any NFL team could ever dream of having lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 47 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Everyone is entitled to their opinion One thing I do not agree with in their evaluation Allen.....good when he had good players around him Allen.....drop off when he lost those players Their theory.....does not hold water because the defenses were not good players IF PLAYERS DROP BALLS THAT HIT THEM RIGHT IN THE HANDS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QB THROWING IT OR THE DEFENSES FACED....THEY ARE SIMPLY DROPPING THE BALLS Allen didn't have a high drop rate compared to other top QBs in this draft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Couldn't get past the theme music... (Isn't that how Bill Murray's 'film critic' character reviewed movies back on SNL, late 70s?) Edited May 28, 2018 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Chemical said: Allen didn't have a high drop rate compared to other top QBs in this draft Tell that to someone who hasnt actually watched the games I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, Peter said: The evaluation of the draft will rise or fall with how Josh Allen ends up doing in his career. I actually hope that he does not play too much this year because whoever the QB is will likely face some adversity. It might be wise not to throw Josh in the fire. The Bills gave up a lot to make all of the moves they did to be able to pick him (starting with the trade last year). Allen clearly is not the darling of the analytics people whereas Baker Mayfield is. Allen can make throws that few people can make and struggles with some throws nearly every professional QB can make consistently. I am not sure how many drops he had (I have read some who claim that this is overstated). On the other hand, if he had only completed 10 more passes, he would have had a 60% completion rate. 10 more completions is not so many. I have no idea whether Josh Allen will end up being the "franchise QB" we have been waiting for, but I am willing to give him a chance when he is ready to play (whenever that is) . . . as we all should. He seems like a good guy and he has embraced Buffalo. ...and I wish we drafted one that most people weren't afraid to "throw into the fire" Sure, every rookie is going to have growing pains. I just see a lot of excuses being made for Allen before even one snap. 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Tell that to someone who hasnt actually watched the games I did So where was he ranked in drop rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: ...and I wish we drafted one that most people weren't afraid to "throw into the fire" Sure, every rookie is going to have growing pains. I just see a lot of excuses being made for Allen before even one snap. So where was he ranked in drop rate? I dont CARE where he was ranked in drop rate just like I dont care about his accuracy rating Both are very skewed Allen makes NFL throws....not dink and dunk passes that look good in the completion ratings Allen's receivers either drop balls that hit them right in the hands.....or couldnt gain separation and get to spots on the the field to actually make plays on the ball And frankly you need look no further in that proof for where he either played his best year in 2016 when he played with draftable talent or when he actually played with NFL draftable talent at the Senior bowl and was making anticipation throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, GreggTX said: It seems the folks at PFF don't think very highly of our draft at all. Your response? The Bills review starts at about 2:45 in from the start. Keep in mind PFF is really driven by fantasy football. As such, they're very driven by stats, and interesting in which stats they give most weight to. They had Tyrod Taylor as the #12 QB in the NFL last year, ahead of Mariota, Stafford, Winston, Prescott, Goff, Cousins, and Carr and just behind Aaron Rodgers. They had our OL ranked #7 this year and #11 last year, despite dropping from 5.3 ypa to 4.1 ypa in rushing, staying at the bottom in passing, and giving up (I think) 10% more sacks against the starter. If you agree with those things, then you probably like their rating of our draft. If you don't agree with that, then you probably want to print it out and use it for bird-cage liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I think if you are a Bills fan, negative reviews are part of the norm It takes 3 years to accurately grade a draft, even my 6 year old grandson knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said: PFF. Lol. by Jay_Fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: IF PLAYERS DROP BALLS THAT HIT THEM RIGHT IN THE HANDS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QB THROWING IT OR THE DEFENSES FACED....THEY ARE SIMPLY DROPPING THE BALLS Oh sorry I thought you might care about the drop rate, probably because of this sentence. My bad, never mind then. I'm just saying it's not very logical to point out Allen's receivers' drops, but ignore the other QBs receivers' drops. But if all you're saying is he will or can be good in the NFL then I'm on board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Keep in mind PFF is really driven by fantasy football. As such, they're very driven by stats, and interesting in which stats they give most weight to. They had Tyrod Taylor as the #12 QB in the NFL last year, ahead of Mariota, Stafford, Winston, Prescott, Goff, Cousins, and Carr and just behind Aaron Rodgers. They had our OL ranked #7 this year and #11 last year, despite dropping from 5.3 ypa to 4.1 ypa in rushing, staying at the bottom in passing, and giving up (I think) 10% more sacks against the starter. If you agree with those things, then you probably like their rating of our draft. If you don't agree with that, then you probably want to print it out and use it for bird-cage liner. This is a prime example of what I am talking about as well. Does anyone here HONESTLY believe that Tyrod is the #12 QB in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said: ...negative reviews are part of the norm It takes 3 years to accurately grade a draft, even my 6 year old grandson knows that. No wonder my 2 year old grandson isn't exactly 'keen' on me. ? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Just now, Chemical said: Oh sorry I thought you might care about the drop rate, probably because of this sentence. My bad, never mind then. I'm just saying it's not very logical to point out Allen's receivers' drops, but ignore the other QBs receivers' drops. But if all you're saying is he will or can be good in the NFL then I'm on board. That is not what I am saying dont put words in my mouth I am saying a. Allens throws are downfield NFL throws (you know the kind that by nature have a less accurate catch rate) b. Allen's receivers drop balls.....or they dont gain separation and get to spots on the field to get to the spot on the field they need to be...you know cuz they suck? c. I dont care about other qbs stats...they are not my qb.....some people care because their qb didnt get drafted (I am assuming you are in this camp) d. When Allen actually played with talented players...his numbers were in fact a lot better which tells its own story Is this logical to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Dare I suggest that had it been a glowing review, it would have been cited as a "good article" and no one would be discussing the validity of information found on the internet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: That is not what I am saying dont put words in my mouth I am saying a. Allens throws are downfield NFL throws (you know the kind that by nature have a less accurate catch rate) b. Allen's receivers drop balls.....or they dont gain separation and get to spots on the field to get to the spot on the field they need to be...you know cuz they suck? c. I dont care about other qbs stats...they are not my qb.....some people care because their qb didnt get drafted (I am assuming you are in this camp) d. When Allen actually played with talented players...his numbers were in fact a lot better which tells its own story Is this logical to you? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Fadingpain said: Dare I suggest that had it been a glowing review, it would have been cited as a "good article" and no one would be discussing the validity of information found on the internet. Find the stuff you can when you can Fading Something tells me its about to get smaller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I remember the great Demitris Bell argument a while back. When they had him ad a leading LT and the Bills' O-line graded very high that year, I grew tired of PFF. They are good for stats, but don't show the entire picture, and it is evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Dare I suggest that had it been a glowing review, it would have been cited as a "good article" and no one would be discussing the validity of information found on the internet. By some, 'yes'. By others, 'no'. Many of us realize we have to see how the season(s) play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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