Love that it appears we have a strategy...

[Hebert19]

After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. 

 

The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap.  The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured.  

 

We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan  (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction.  

 

So refreshing.   

[billspro]

1 minute ago, Hebert19 said:

After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. 

 

The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap.  The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured.  

 

We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan  (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction.  

 

So refreshing.   

 

Yeah, we have a great front office. I am interested to see how their plan turns out. 

[ddaryl]

The Pegulas forcing/swapping HC's on Whaley was a miss fire. 3-4 D 4-3 swap out personel needed for different coaching styles really messed us up

 

I have to put as much blame on the Pegula's as Whaley.

 

so yes it is nice to see some continuity up top, and hopefully the Pegula's learned some lessons.

[Kirby Jackson]

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

[YoloinOhio]

I’m intrigued by the silence from OBD. It’s the kind of silence that takes place when you haven’t seen your toddler in awhile and he is in another area of the house and you’re thinking wow, he’s being really quiet, must just be doing a puzzle or something. Wait a minute... 

Edited April 9, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[KDIGGZ]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m intrigued by the silence from OBD. It’s the kind of silence that takes place when you haven’t seen your toddler in awhile and he is in another area of the house and you’re thinking wow, he’s being really quiet, must just be doing a puzzle or something. Wait a minute... 

We have QB's in town visiting over the next couple of days. The next step will be predicated on how those visits go

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I was arguing for Beane and McDermott two-three years ago on BBMB before we hired Rex Ryan

 

I’m very happy we have these two faces of the Franchise. Now to get the QB to make it a trinity.

[nickrage]

The most terrifying of silences.

But def agree with you about the absolute silence coming out these last few weeks. Cant believe this is a buddy nix naptime....Or is it??????

 

Only time will tell

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

24 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. 

 

The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap.  The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured.  

 

We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan  (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction.  

 

So refreshing.   

 

Whaley had a plan too. It might not have been the right one, but there is no way he would have kept that job that long if he was just wondering around aimlessly. 

 

Please keep in mind that Beane has yet to build any part of the roster significantly. 

 

Hes sold off a bunch of talent, thus far.

 

Mccarron and k Benjamin are his centerpiece acquisitions. Neither have proven much in a bills jersey and may not even be better than what they replaced...

 

this draft is his first real test 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

31 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

After a few years of Whaley...i gotta admit it finally feels like we have a plan. 

 

The maneuvering of the salary cap and dead cap.  The accumulation of draft picks and now even the pre draft visits seem structured.  

 

We have a plan (likely to trade up) but if that doesn't work we have the back up plan  (roquan Smith, Rudolph, first round WRs etc)...if we don't find a partner for trade up or price is too high we flip the switch and go a different direction.  

 

So refreshing.   

This is exactly how I feel as well, we also have a HC that really knows how to coach. McD knows what players will fit his system and they seem to become better players while they are here. Very excited to see what happens with this draft.

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

We have QB's in town visiting over the next couple of days. The next step will be predicated on how those visits go

Agree - interesting that they have only scheduled Rosen, Mayfield and Rudolph so far? It’s getting late early. Unless it just hadn’t hit the media (and not sure why it wouldn’t since we heard about their other visits), they really only have 1 more week, the week of 4/16,  to bring in the other “round 1” QBs Darnold, Allen and Lamar. . They aren’t going to be doing visits the week of the draft. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Magox]

17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

 

Of course there was a plan, but it wasn't well-thought out and not nearly as detailed nor with as much as vision than that of the current regime.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Magox

[BillsFan17]

19 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The Pegulas forcing/swapping HC's on Whaley was a miss fire. 3-4 D 4-3 swap out personel needed for different coaching styles really messed us up

 

I have to put as much blame on the Pegula's as Whaley.

 

so yes it is nice to see some continuity up top, and hopefully the Pegula's learned some lessons.

How many of Whaleys draft picks remain on the roster?

[Magox]

19 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The Pegulas forcing/swapping HC's on Whaley was a miss fire. 3-4 D 4-3 swap out personel needed for different coaching styles really messed us up

 

I have to put as much blame on the Pegula's as Whaley.

 

so yes it is nice to see some continuity up top, and hopefully the Pegula's learned some lessons.

 

Part of the job of a good GM is to successfully SELL his vision and his plan so that he can have the confidence of ownership to run the ship and put in place his guys.  Whaley, clearly did not do that.

[Luxy312]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

 

This, in a nutshell, is how I feel about the subject.  People applaud the plan, when basically, the plan fits the narrative of what they would like to see happen (trade up to get a QB; use draft capital to fill holes in the starting lineup; etc.).  The simple fact of the matter here is that we don't know what the plan is.  We don't even know what the plan was before.  We don't know if there was any more thought or effort put into this front office's "plan" versus Whaley's.  It's all simply idle speculation.

 

[BrotherChazz]

1 minute ago, Luxy312 said:

 

This, in a nutshell, is how I feel about the subject.  People applaud the plan, when basically, the plan fits the narrative of what they would like to see happen (trade up to get a QB; use draft capital to fill holes in the starting lineup; etc.).  The simple fact of the matter here is that we don't know what the plan is.  We don't even know what the plan was before.  We don't know if there was any more thought or effort put into this front office's "plan" versus Whaley's.  It's all simply idle speculation.

 

 

Thats why the OP said "appearance of a plan." The difference here is that the strategy is clear base on the moves...whereas before there was no discernible plan. I have no idea if thats good or bad. This way, most of our cards are on the table. But regardless, it's very apparent that they are following a certain path now. 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

 

Considering the "plan" started when Whaley was still here, he should get some of the credit. At least the same amount he gets for "drafting EJ" even though Buddy was officially GM.

[LABILLBACKER]

totally agree...Im on board for either plan A or plan B...we are in good hands everyone!

[Da webster guy]

Yes Salary and draft pick wise we have things under control.  Will have some major free agent spending money available next off season.

 

Still, as much as I like Beane's moves, I wonder how we would have done against Jacksonville if we still had Sammy on our team.   Considering all we had to score was 11 points to win our first playoff game, I'd say Beane probably made a mistake dumping Sammy for EJ Gaines and a 2nd rounder this year.    Tyrod's best target who he had years of chemistry with, conspicuously absent on a day when we desperately needed a big play or two through the air.

 

Who knows, Sammy may not have been healthy, and Gaines did play well for us in half of our games this season--we still have that draft pick.   I think it would have been a different game with Watkins, and I'm sure McD was wondering the same thing at the end of the game when the scoreboard showed our whopping 3 points.   My point is, it's great to clean house, but sometimes dumping good players can hurt you, especially if you go further than you thought you would and find yourself in a post season matchup and lay an egg.

 

But we'll never know, and now we have the pick to show for it, so let's turn the page (wiping tears off my sammy jersey)

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

Of course there was a plan, but it wasn't a well-thought out and not nearly as detailed nor with as much as vision than that the current regime.

That’s in hindsight and probably not fair either. It was different. McBeane came in and tried to hit the reset button. They won earlier than they expected. They didn’t stray from the plan.

 

The last regime thought that they were closer to a title than they were. They tried to build a team that could run the ball, take care of the ball and play defense. They tried to retain player that they thought would help that (Glenn extension), bring in guys to do that (Shady, Incognito, Zach Brown, etc..). They just missed on the EJ and that sets you back.  

 

Again, I assure you that every regime, in every sport has a plan. It’s always easy to tear down; it is a matter of “can you build it back up?” So far Beane has done the exact same thing that Tim Murray did at the beginning (and everyone loved him at the time). Murray turned out to be a nightmare. 

 

The Bills have positioned themselves to be different. If they hit on the QB this rebuild will likely look good. If they get the wrong guy they will be back looking for jobs in 2 years and we will wax poetically about how great the new guys are. We will talk about what an improvement they are, wash, rinse, repeat. 

[JoeF]

22 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

The problem was too many plans. One for the coaching staff one for management

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, JoeF said:

The problem was too many plans. One for the coaching staff one for management

That I don’t disagree with (and that’s an ownership issue). Had Rex Ryan not been hired things would have looked different. Rex was the problem. 

[muppy]

22 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

 

 

strategy huh......as in fly by the seat of their pants signings ex jests preferred  make stupid financial deals and front office  hire buffoons as Head coaches they had Strategy all right....TCK   so anything as opposed to that is like fresh fresh air...Muppy~ 

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

 

There were plans to sell season tickets and increase revenue - but that's about it.  Lots of salary shed in late August during the Ralph years.

[US Egg]

Beane has done a very good job in his first year. Especially trimming dead weight, trouble players and clearing the way to have serious cap room for next year.

 

He's done well moving up, but is now at the mercy of other teams. I won't knock him with whatever he chooses to do in the draft. But high hopes for 2018.....?

[PIZ]

22 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

We have QB's in town visiting over the next couple of days. The next step will be predicated on how those visits go

 

I wonder if there are QB visits taking place that we won't know about.  Are the 30 visitors always reported?  I wonder if they have a guy they are keeping secret, like the Bears did with Trubisky.

[MrEpsYtown]

What McBeane and McDermott do at quarterback is pretty much going to define the rest of their careers. I think they have to take the surest thing in the draft with true upside...Darnold or Rosen. Anything short of that is a huge failure to me. 

 

I understand why people like Allen. He has huge upside, but not sure they will want to risk it. 

I understand why people love Mayfield, but not sure they will want to put their careers on the line with shorter guy who has off the field things. 

I understand why people like Jackson, as he also has a huge upside, but needs a ton of work. Not sure they stake their careers on that. 

I don't understand why people like Rudolph. He has limited athletic ability and needs a ton of work.  McBeane are not putting their entire careers on the line with this guy on a huge reach. 

 

After Darnold and Rosen I think they might take a shot on Allen. As Geg Cosell has said, if you fail taking a shot on Allen it isn't as bad as failing and taking a shot on some of these other guys. I still think they get into the top 2 with Rosen probably the target. 

 

[Luxy312]

5 minutes ago, BrotherChazz said:

 

Thats why the OP said "appearance of a plan." The difference here is that the strategy is clear base on the moves...whereas before there was no discernible plan. I have no idea if thats good or bad. This way, most of our cards are on the table. But regardless, it's very apparent that they are following a certain path now. 

 

If strategies were as clear as you represent, idle fans like us should be able to predict the draft.  For the last 15 years (possibly longer), ESPN has done a "predict the draft" game where people guess what is going to happen in the first round.  Mock drafts are collectively busted every year before 8 picks even happen.  The moves made thus far do not show their hand or define a strategy at all.  They could certainly use draft capital to trade up, but there's no guarantee that happens or how far.   It's what makes the NFL draft so much fun every year.  

Just now, PIZ said:

 

I wonder if there are QB visits taking place that we won't know about.  Are the 30 visitors always reported?  I wonder if they have a guy they are keeping secret, like the Bears did with Trubisky.

 

It has to be disclosed to the NFL, as it is limited to 30.  I don't think it's public information none the less, other than what the media is able to see.

[BrotherChazz]

1 minute ago, Luxy312 said:

 

If strategies were as clear as you represent, idle fans like us should be able to predict the draft.  For the last 15 years (possibly longer), ESPN has done a "predict the draft" game where people guess what is going to happen in the first round.  Mock drafts are collectively busted every year before 8 picks even happen.  The moves made thus far do not show their hand or define a strategy at all.  They could certainly use draft capital to trade up, but there's no guarantee that happens or how far.   It's what makes the NFL draft so much fun every year.  

 

It has to be disclosed to the NFL, as it is limited to 30.  I don't think it's public information none the less, other than what the media is able to see.

 

Just because you have a plan, doesn't mean it will go as planned. Thats why people can't predict things. There are any number of things that could alter the plan. We both agree thats what makes it fun. It's semantics we're disagreeing on. 

[Tenhigh]

25 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I was arguing for Beane and McDermott two-three years ago on BBMB before we hired Rex Ryan

 

I’m very happy we have these two faces of the Franchise. Now to get the QB to make it a trinity.

I was arguing for them on News Groups when Levy retired.  The first time. 

 

[muppy]

31 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m intrigued by the silence from OBD. It’s the kind of silence that takes place when you haven’t seen your toddler in awhile and he is in another area of the house and you’re thinking wow, he’s being really quiet, must just be doing a puzzle or something. Wait a minute... 

 AKA NO LEAKS Hmmmmmmm......I think Brandon has been muzzled and these guys aren't giving up Nada to the enemy..... That's refreshing too.  Muppy~

29 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I was arguing for Beane and McDermott two-three years ago on BBMB before we hired Rex Ryan

 

I’m very happy we have these two faces of the Franchise. Now to get the QB to make it a trinity.

yeahhhh rawrrrrr~~~

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

How many of Whaleys draft picks remain on the roster?

You don’t get it obviously.  Change of schemes and purge of contracts so the new regime can build “their” team.  It’s not as if the players Whaley drafted are not playing in the nfl.....just not on the Bills.  

[Magox]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s in hindsight and probably not fair either. It was different. McBeane came in and tried to hit the reset button. They won earlier than they expected. They didn’t stray from the plan.

 

The last regime thought that they were closer to a title than they were. They tried to build a team that could run the ball, take care of the ball and play defense. They tried to retain player that they thought would help that (Glenn extension), bring in guys to do that (Shady, Incognito, Zach Brown, etc..). They just missed on the EJ and that sets you back.  

 

Again, I assure you that every regime, in every sport has a plan. It’s always easy to tear down; it is a matter of “can you build it back up?” So far Beane has done the exact same thing that Tim Murray did at the beginning (and everyone loved him at the time). Murray turned out to be a nightmare. 

 

The Bills have positioned themselves to be different. If they hit on the QB this rebuild will likely look good. If they get the wrong guy they will be back looking for jobs in 2 years and we will wax poetically about how great the new guys are. We will talk about what an improvement they are, wash, rinse, repeat. 

 

I'm not basing what I'm saying in hindsight, I'm basing it off of the the sort of moves he made and the lack of clarity of any sort of a vision that was ever shared with us.  Not to mention that he wasn't able to sell himself to the Pegula's to be able to run the ship as a GM should be able to.   Look at what Whaley did to the salary cap.  We lead the league in dead cap money, whose fault was that?   You say he "just missed on EJ".   ummm, that's not all he missed on, the Sammy trading of an additional first rounder was an epic failure.  It's one of the worst moves that this organization has made in the past decade.  That from my view is indisputable and totally set this franchise back. What about the Dareus signing?  Sure you can say that Dareus was playing good ball at the time and that was right around the going rate for elite DT free agents.  But there were red flags with Dareus and the bottom line is that it ended up being a bad signing.  Way overpaid, the guy is one strike away from being out of the league for a very long time and frankly that decision is still negatively impacting this football team. 

 

You say hindsight, I say it's what I've been able to observe.  

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

I wonder if there are QB visits taking place that we won't know about.  Are the 30 visitors always reported?  I wonder if they have a guy they are keeping secret, like the Bears did with Trubisky.

Last year only half of the visits were reported and as far as we know the only one who visited that we drafted was Tre White I believe

[Happy]

24 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

How many of Whaleys draft picks remain on the roster?

 

Most are gone because either of lack of fit in McDermott's offense or defense scheme and/or bad contract structure, and not because they were terrible football players.

[formerlyofCtown]

25 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

How many of Whaleys draft picks remain on the roster?

They are starting on other teams and getting paid.

[2003Contenders]

It also helps when the GM and coach are joined at the hip as McD and Beane appear to be.

 

Whaley had no say in hiring Marrone, as that was primarily a Brandon decision. If Whaley had his way, the Bills' next coach would have been Hue Jackson, but the Pegulas (at Brandon's urging) hired Rex instead.

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Last year only half of the visits were reported and as far as we know the only one who visited that we drafted was Tre White I believe

Tre didn’t visit. Only visitor who we drafted was Peterman 

 

tre *did* however visit the Panthers. As did Dawkins. 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Tre didn’t visit. Only visitor who we drafted was Peterman 

 

tre *did* however visit the Panthers. As did Dawkins. 

Ah yes that's who it was. Thanks for the correction!

[RobH063]

44 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I always find it funny that people assume that there wasn’t a plan before. They were just spitting in the wind. That’s just ridiculous. You may not have liked the plan but obviously there was a strategy in place. 

Of Course there was a plan in place.