Let the record I'm against trade into top 6 due to price

[greeneblitz]

who cares about any of those players, without a franchise QB all those players will likely be off the roster in a few years and making contributions to other team. nothing matters but QB. trade the whole draft if need be.

[gobills1212]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

It is a Buffalo Bills message board.  Excuse me for expressing an opinion for discussion

I suppose I have no choice but to excuse you, even though this was deemed important enough for it's own thread but yet the only thing anyone got out of it is you have a kinda funny avatar..

Also, let the record show you literally ASKED to be given ****. Make up your mind! 

Edited March 29, 2018 by gobills1212

[MJS]

I don't think anyone cares about what the record says about you. Or me, for that matter. Or anyone.

[BobDVA]

57 minutes ago, Pete said:

It is a Buffalo Bills message board.  Excuse me for expressing an opinion for discussion

Big Pete, Little Pete, Re-Pete. I am on your side.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Off topic somewhat, but I loved the 2014 and 2015 Bills teams.  IMO a good coach might have won superbowl with 2016 team.  Whaley did a great job stocking fridge,  but Rex burned the meal. 

 

 

Oh, and here I was taking you seriously. Win the Super Bowl? Maybe if they'd switched defensive rosters with Denver. 

 

Good grief.

[transplantbillsfan]

Trade up. 

 

If you view the picks we currently have as a result of Beane prioritizing building a team over finding a Franchise QB and getting him, you just haven't been paying attention.

 

When it comes to the draft, get Franchise QB 1st. Build team 2nd.

[PrimeTime101]

let the record show I don't care that you have to do a post about setting a record on how you feel. A new thread where plenty of other treads you could of replied the same way.

 

I respect your opinion but to make a new thread of it like this is borderline stupid.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Off topic somewhat, but I loved the 2014 and 2015 Bills teams.  IMO a good coach might have won superbowl with 2016 team.  

 

Youre nuts. Super bowl ? 

[Elite Poster]

Probably thought the Wentz trade was dumb too. Must be nice to have a championship.

[Fadingpain]

Thank goodness we have Pete's position duly noted and made of record!

 

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying.  The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB).  Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include:

Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice,  Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc.

 

We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks.  Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up.

Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props.  Peace out

If we could get 7 of them I would not want to trade up and 31 GMs should be fired.

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, and here I was taking you seriously. Win the Super Bowl? Maybe if they'd switched defensive rosters with Denver. 

 

Good grief.

We could build a pretty good roster with those picks.  Positions other than QB can also be bust.

 I will go on record as giving the shocking revelation that Beane and company know more than TSW posters and myself when it comes to football.  I am content with  "trusting the process".

[Thurman#1]

40 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

We could build a pretty good roster with those picks.  Positions other than QB can also be bust.

 I will go on record as giving the shocking revelation that Beane and company know more than TSW posters and myself when it comes to football.  I am content with  "trusting the process".

 

 

Did you reply to the wrong person? Your post has nothing to do with what I wrote.

[formerlyofCtown]

45 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Did you reply to the wrong person? Your post has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Sorry if I wasn't clearer or if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.  I'm saying that we could very well build that type of defense.   

Iam also speaking in general about the trade up or not debate.  I would hate to trade all those picks and draft a bust but it's not impossible to stay with our own picks and draft 6 bust players.

The draft needs to hurry up and get here, this subject can be exhausting.  I can only imagine what it must be like for GMs and coaches.

Edited March 29, 2018 by formerlyofCtown

[Mickey]

All the "upgrades" in the world won't win a championship or even a perennial contender without a good QB. The NFL isn't for feint hearted, penny pinching small timers. Go big or go home. Better to take a shot and miss then to never have the guts to go for it. But, if 6-10-ish seasons float your boat, then by all means, hang on to that 3rd round pick like it is the secret to immortality.

[SouthNYfan]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

Next year we might have a top 5 draft pick that we traded away if we trade into top 5

 

In a year with maybe one really good QB who will go #1.

 

And why would we have a top5 pick, you know, with all the picks we this year to build a "good team" , as you said earlier, because that matters more than a good QB, hmmmm??

 

8 hours ago, Pete said:

 

 

[Thurman#1]

19 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Sorry if I wasn't clearer or if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.  I'm saying that we could very well build that type of defense.   

Iam also speaking in general about the trade up or not debate.  I would hate to trade all those picks and draft a bust but it's not impossible to stay with our own picks and draft 6 bust players.

The draft needs to hurry up and get here, this subject can be exhausting.  I can only imagine what it must be like for GMs and coaches.

 

 

Yeah, and I was trying to say that it was genuinely dumb to think the 2016 Bills could have won the Super Bowl with a different coach, which is what the OP actually said. That maybe that would have been possible only if we had brought in the entire Denver Broncos defense. And frankly very unlikely even then, let me add now.

 

Say what you want to say, but don't reply to me if you're not going to ... you know ... reply to what I was talking about.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, Pete said:

Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying.  The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB).  Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include:

Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice,  Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc.

 

We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks.  Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up.

Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props.  Peace out

 

You think that’s the price to get to 6? That’s probably 2 and maybe 1 if the Browns think their qb lasts til 4

Edited March 29, 2018 by NoSaint

[racketmaster]

I am leaning toward agreeing with the OP. A QB is going to go #1 overall for sure (either Allen or Darnold). There is no way CLE trades top pick without grossly overpaying for it (I am talking at least 4 first round picks being involved). Beane will not trade away that much capital. If Darnold is available at #2 then same goes for NYG (they are not trading out unless we grossly overpay). NYJ are drafting a QB at #3 and they are definitely not trading down. It is very likely that 3 quarterbacks go with top 3 picks (Allen, Darnold and either Rosen or Mayfield). 

 

So we get to #4 and CLE is on the clock. They will have a chance to draft the #1 prospect in Chubb, Barkley or Fitzpatrick. This draft sets up perfectly for CLE and they would want a lot to move down to 12. We could overpay for the 4th QB (the top 4 seem pretty close so it may not be a huge difference in ratings) or wait until TB is on the clock because DEN and IND will be in similar spots (staring at a top 3 player). It will be hard to convince them to move down to 12 for a lesser player. TB seems open for business but MIA and a few other teams know this and will elevate the price. 

 

If Bills really like the remaining of the top 4, then it would be worth it. More than likely, they will “like” the last of the 4 but not enough to get into a bidding war with other teams. 

 

It also very much depends on what the Bills think of Jackson and Rudolph. How big is the gap between those two and the last of the top 4 qbs. If it is an enormous gap, then it would be wise to trade up. But if it is not that big, then it might be better to stay put and draft them at 12 or 22 and fill  the many holes on this team. 

 

My opinion is that Bills have Darnold as clear #1 but they are not going to be able to convince CLE or NYG to move down without making a Hershel Walker type deal. They probably don’t love the other 3 enough to give away a ton of capital so they wait it out. If the 4th slips to TB and price is reasonable then they strike a deal. Otherwise, they probably wait. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by racketmaster

[Teddy KGB]

9 hours ago, Pete said:

Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying.  The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB).  Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include:

Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice,  Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc.

 

We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks.  Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up.

Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props.  Peace out

 

Roll those dice on Lamar Jackson ?. 

 

A gambling man.    

 

Rather see super accurate Mayfield at 4-6 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just think, we could get so many starters! No other team in the league would have as many starters as us. We could draft a wr, dt, cb that will definitely be better than Watkins, Dareus, and Darby. 

 

All those players you name name sound great until a few years from now when more than half are just average players or out of the league. Look back at past drafts. 

 

Our glut of picks is there to move up for a Qb. Plain and simple. He may or may not be a bust, but I’m sick of mediocrity and not trying for a top rated prospect at the most important position in sports. 

[nucci]

but you don't know what the price is unless it happens

[SouthNYfan]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

but you don't know what the price is unless it happens

 

This.

 

[NewEraBills]

In most years I would follow this line of thinking.  I still lean this way at times, but I realize it's situational.  The Bills are a pretty bad team on paper.   They have a few spots that are really good, but on paper they are not a lot to write home about.  In saying all of that, our QB drought is just like the playoff drought was.  We ended one and we need to end the other one as swiftly as possible and it's possible this year.  I don't know who their top guy is.  And I'm sure whoever we select, even if it is a CB, it will be their top guy at least that is what we will be told.  In any case, we must land a QB.  Our QB situation has been ranked the worse in the NFL, I think it is pretty clear we are going QB somewhere and early.

[Big Turk]

I'm sure a lot of Eagles fans felt the same way a few years ago when they traded up for Wentz...wonder how many of them feel that way now?

[TOboy]

Now that we have Pete's opinion, we're going to need a thread from every other member on this important topic not currently being discussed elsewhere. 

 

 

All kidding aside, I'm in favor of moving up for the right guy at the right cost.  As a fan, I want a sexy move up to grab a franchise QB, but I completely trust McBeane to determine the right next move. 

[slaphappy]

54 minutes ago, Mickey said:

All the "upgrades" in the world won't win a championship or even a perennial contender without a good QB. The NFL isn't for feint hearted, penny pinching small timers. Go big or go home. Better to take a shot and miss then to never have the guts to go for it. But, if 6-10-ish seasons float your boat, then by all means, hang on to that 3rd round pick like it is the secret to immortality.

If only we could have gone 6-10 last year.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

I feel better just knowing where the OP stands on this. Looking forward to hundreds of additional threads with everyone else's opinion. 

[RochesterRob]

10 hours ago, Pete said:

Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying.  The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB).  Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include:

Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice,  Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc.

 

We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks.  Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up.

Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props.  Peace out

  This thread is turning out to be a dog whistle for those who would break the bank without any assurance that any one QB prospect will deliver to go to the top of the draft.  Dissenting opinion will not be tolerated by these same people.  Funny how this board is a "discussion" board for their crackpot ideas but when somebody differs then no discussion is allowed.  Some even go to the point to assume that they are some boss over OBD.   I know that snow shoveling season is just about done for the season but lawn mowing time could not come soon enough to give these guys something else to do that in the end would be more productive than thinking that they are bossing Beane around.  

[Chuck Wagon]

10 hours ago, Pete said:

Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying.  The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB).  Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include:

Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice,  Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc.

 

We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks.  Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up.

Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props.  Peace out

 

 

We have 7 first round picks?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

10 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Let the record show that some jackass I don't care about had an opinion on 3/28/2018

 

Congrats, so did over 6 billion other people.

 

Get over yourself, you're worse than sister Jean. I don't care what you think and never will. This thread is awful.

 

 

so your opinion matters? who are you again?

 

oh, that's right, some jack ass that nobody cares about. your post is awful.

[gobills1212]

9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  This thread is turning out to be a dog whistle for those who would break the bank without any assurance that any one QB prospect will deliver to go to the top of the draft.  Dissenting opinion will not be tolerated by these same people.  Funny how this board is a "discussion" board for their crackpot ideas but when somebody differs then no discussion is allowed.  Some even go to the point to assume that they are some boss over OBD.   I know that snow shoveling season is just about done for the season but lawn mowing time could not come soon enough to give these guys something else to do that in the end would be more productive than thinking that they are bossing Beane around.  

I think it could be, and there have been posters that have offered very well thought out ideas of ways the board could fall and those picks stay. 

It's an uphill battle however, bc the majority of the fan base seems to want some sort of sniff at a top guy. Being real, there is a chance we get shot out and there is disappointment. Dont confuse excitement as tolerance and dont confuse this post as one of the aforementioned good shut out scenario takes.

[VTBills]

Duly noted .  I understand and kind of agree with the logic of this post. Any 1st rounder is a risk of being a bust (see EJ Manuel, JP Losman, Mike Williams, etc).  The top 4 QBs in this draft are no different.  The question is how much is Beane willing to bet that Allen, Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield will be a Manning, Wentz and not a Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Matt Leinhart, Joey Harrington, etc.   There are a lot of holes to fill on the roster and giving up a bunch of high draft picks means there won't be many filled in this draft.  I think/hope Beane will keep his options open and only move up on draft day if one of his top choices falls past 6.  Otherwise, go QB and BPA at 12 and 22 in either order depending on his evaluation of the remaining QBs.   IMO, better to take a risk that Rudolph or Jackson becomes the next Rodgers and try to fill holes and depth on your roster than to bet the farm on a QB that doesn't pan out and be forced to fill holes in FA in 2019 and go right back into cap jail. 

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I feel better just knowing where the OP stands on this. Looking forward to hundreds of additional threads with everyone else's opinion. 

Lmao!

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

I think it could be, and there have been posters that have offered very well thought out ideas of ways the board could fall and those picks stay. 

It's an uphill battle however, bc the majority of the fan base seems to want some sort of sniff at a top guy. Being real, there is a chance we get shot out and there is disappointment. Dont confuse excitement as tolerance and dont confuse this post as one of the aforementioned good shut out scenario takes.

  No doubt that there are good ideas put out by both the BPA and trade up camps.  It's one thing to disagree with an idea and say so in a respectful manner but some of the trade up crowd is flat out juvenile.  Despite what they may think Beane is not coming on this board to solicit advice so they might just as well relax when somebody has something different to offer.  I agree with the general sentiment of not making a big trade up as there appears to be a lot of talent to be had in the first two rounds with no clear cut superior prospect at QB.  For me it is really that simple.  Goes back to the notion of don't reach on iffy prospects which was the mantra on BBMB the last few years it existed.

[RollBillsRoll]

While I agree that QB is the most important position on the field at any level of football, I don't agree that great QB's are a prerequisite for success. (At 'Bama, we don't even call 'em quarterbacks...they are called game managers  ...and boy do we sure win a lot with them) Some of the more memorable "mediocre" QB's that have CB Champion under their name: Dilfer,  Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Joe Flacco, Jim Mcmahon, etc) You can win the superbowl with great defense and supporting cast. Heck, Peyton Manning struggled to throw the ball 20 yards a couple years ago in the super bowl, but he was crafty and had a great defense.

 

When you look at that list along with the 1st round qb busts such as : Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinert, , joey harrington, tim couch, byron leftwich, david carr,  Cade mckown, jamarcus russel, Johnny manziel, etc. its not hard to see why some would be hesitant to support trading a bunch of quality picks for a QB who very few agree is a once in a generation player such as andrew luck.  It seems to me the argument is valid from either view point. 

 

If you believe the  best way to build a championship team is to go all in on a franchise qb, go get him (although it hasn't exactly worked out for INDY, even when Luck was healthy). If you believe you can win with great defense and average QB play, keep those picks. Not hard to guess which one I believe in. Defense and a dominating ground game. Drew Brees has been setting passing records for the last several years with a middling team. Last year they committed to the run, Brees took a backseat somewhat, and the team was much improved, IMO.

[slaphappy]

I keep thinking about the 2012 draft. After the obvious #1 pick and where all the QB's went that we would give a kings ransom (  in Foles case a 1st rounder maybe)for today. Has the QB evaluation process improved that much since then?  I can see it in my mind..3 years from now everyone saying Beane really dropped the ball on this draft giving up so much to pick _______? When he could have waited and picked _______? 

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, slaphappy said:

I keep thinking about the 2012 draft. After the obvious #1 pick and where all the QB's went that we would give a kings ransom (  in Foles case a 1st rounder maybe)for today. Has the QB evaluation process improved that much since then?  I can see it in my mind..3 years from now everyone saying Beane really dropped the ball on this draft giving up so much to pick _______? When he could have waited and picked _______? 

 You know that is going to happen and the "I'm going to quit this team if...." threads have already started.  

[1st&ten]

11 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Let the record show that some jackass I don't care about had an opinion on 3/28/2018

 

Congrats, so did over 6 billion other people.

 

Get over yourself, you're worse than sister Jean. I don't care what you think and never will. This thread is awful.

 

Man, aren't you being a little harsh. If you don't care about his opinion or like his thread why don't you move on to a different one. The poster has been a member of this board since 2001. He should be able to start a thread whether it's awful or not.

Edited March 29, 2018 by 1st&ten

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, and I was trying to say that it was genuinely dumb to think the 2016 Bills could have won the Super Bowl with a different coach, which is what the OP actually said. That maybe that would have been possible only if we had brought in the entire Denver Broncos defense. And frankly very unlikely even then, let me add now.

 

Say what you want to say, but don't reply to me if you're not going to ... you know ... reply to what I was talking about.

And what if I do?  Your going to act like a ***"""".  I might not be so polite in the future.  I think with a different coach we definitely make the playoffs.  I doubt the Superbowl though but we will never know.