Sal C’s “Dear Browns fans....” about Tyrod Taylor

[nedboy7]

Kinda reminds me how foxnews still has a Hillary article every other day.  

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Mr. Miyagi had to have one parting shot at the QB that made him look like an idiot in 2017.

 

Sal........the NFL is changing gramps........see what Philly did with Foles and Houston did with Watson......HISTORIC......and to a lesser historical scale but also impressively what ANTHONY LYNN did with Buffalo in 2016 in putting the best Bills offense in a quarter-century on the field........teams actually are adjusting their offenses to fit their QB strengths.

 

And just an awful read as well.........NOBODY cares about your first two paragraphs.............and the hypothetical "Tyrod loses the game in the 4th quarter" scenario is mostly fiction since those situations rarely happened.  

 

But yeah, the All-22 stuff being analyzed by dummies was a divisive factor........but what you are missing in BOTH of these cases is perspective.

 

What do other QB's All-22's look like?   Do statistics show that good QB's are always bringing their teams back from deficits against equally matched or better opponents?

 

I'll help you........other effective QB's miss wide open receivers and NO.....good QB's aren't regularly marching their teams back from 4th quarter deficits.

 

Are Matt Ryan and Alex Smith garbage because they threw brutal-looking, game-ending interceptions on their final drives in games against much less talented the Bills teams this year?   

 

Tom Brady was moving the ball up and down the field at will in the SB but couldn't get his last 2 drives past midfield at the end........I guess he's done (or maybe the other team had something to do with that?).

 

Go to school this offseason Sal.........your performance was garbage this year.......re-watch what Houston and Philly did.......even LA Rams where the HC was calling plays for his QB at the LOS......and maybe even actually watch some college football........then perhaps you will be able to get a better perspective on the NFL landscape.

 

 

 

 

stop making sense dude.  these mental baskets will gang up on you like facebook trolls. 

 

Tyrod deserves better than Buffalo fans.  May he find some peace in CLE. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by nedboy7

[CircleTheWagons99]

It still boggles the mind people are STILL defending TT.  

Edited March 11, 2018 by CircleTheWagons99

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, DFT said:

Something about that Sal Cap guy...    he just seems to “get it”.   

Soon he will have his own show...he’s my favorite radio personality...and I’m always singing his theme song when he comes on

Edited March 11, 2018 by JaCrispy

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Mr. Miyagi had to have one parting shot at the QB that made him look like an idiot in 2017.

Pleas don’t take this personally 

 

go to the Browns forums and discuss the former Bills QB 

 

 

He is who he is and as I thought 

 

No longer a Buffalo Bill. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[CuddyDark]

This is crap. Tyrod might be all the good we remember. Tyrod might do what Rich Gannon did for the Raiders. This fool at WGR has no idea what TT might do for the Browns. Just be happy we're moving on. Why take shots at the kid because it didn't work. This is all 'I hope he sucks so I can say I was right.' This is why I can't take WGR seriously. They're a joke station.

[Jay_Fixit]

Spot on.

 

But the arguments for Tyrod are the wrong ones. 

[Green Lightning]

Pretty accurate summation.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

This fool described TT to a tee.  

 

If you don’t see it you never will.  

 

Browns fans will welcome you too.  

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

This is crap. Tyrod might be all the good we remember. Tyrod might do what Rich Gannon did for the Raiders. This fool at WGR has no idea what TT might do for the Browns. Just be happy we're moving on. Why take shots at the kid because it didn't work. This is all 'I hope he sucks so I can say I was right.' This is why I can't take WGR seriously. They're a joke station.

 

Jmo

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Mr. Miyagi had to have one parting shot at the QB that made him look like an idiot in 2017.

 

Sal........the NFL is changing gramps........see what Philly did with Foles and Houston did with Watson......HISTORIC......and to a lesser historical scale but also impressively what ANTHONY LYNN did with Buffalo in 2016 in putting the best Bills offense in a quarter-century on the field........teams actually are adjusting their offenses to fit their QB strengths.

 

And just an awful read as well.........NOBODY cares about your first two paragraphs.............and the hypothetical "Tyrod loses the game in the 4th quarter" scenario is mostly fiction since those situations rarely happened.  

 

But yeah, the All-22 stuff being analyzed by dummies was a divisive factor........but what you are missing in BOTH of these cases is perspective.

 

What do other QB's All-22's look like?   Do statistics show that good QB's are always bringing their teams back from deficits against equally matched or better opponents?

 

I'll help you........other effective QB's miss wide open receivers and NO.....good QB's aren't regularly marching their teams back from 4th quarter deficits.

 

Are Matt Ryan and Alex Smith garbage because they threw brutal-looking, game-ending interceptions on their final drives in games against much less talented the Bills teams this year?   

 

Tom Brady was moving the ball up and down the field at will in the SB but couldn't get his last 2 drives past midfield at the end........I guess he's done (or maybe the other team had something to do with that?).

 

Go to school this offseason Sal.........your performance was garbage this year.......re-watch what Houston and Philly did.......even LA Rams where the HC was calling plays for his QB at the LOS......and maybe even actually watch some college football........then perhaps you will be able to get a better perspective on the NFL landscape.

 

 

 

https://1iota.com/Show/385/The-View

[CuddyDark]

17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

This fool described TT to a tee.  

 

If you don’t see it you never will.  

 

Browns fans will welcome you too.  

 

Jmo

No he didn't. He described TT to his "tee" He don't even know what TT was supposed to do on the field. He don't even know what play was called. I just think some people was to be right. He wants a pat on the back? Was that even necessary? Why not just say we're moving on and I wish him luck? Because it's not about TT it's about him and his little EGO.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That is such a well written letter. Bravo. So accurate, so right and so wrong at the same time is Taylor.

 

I do wish the best for Tyrod Taylor.. I think he will have a very long career as a very good backup that will win you 50% of the games like backups do.

 

Which means he'll always be a starter, because many teams in the league don't have a QB good enough to win 50% of their games.

 

Good luck to him. It was an interesting few years. I totally supported him until around mid season last year when I realized we have seen everything there is to see from Tyrod. I'm glad we get to turn the chapter and make real efforts at upgrading the position.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

No he didn't. He described TT to his "tee" He don't even know what TT was supposed to do on the field. He don't even know what play was called. I just think some people was to be right. He wants a pat on the back? Was that even necessary? Why not just say we're moving on and I wish him luck? Because it's not about TT it's about him and his little EGO.

 

was it necessary?  Maybe not.  

I don't believe he told any lies.

 

Maybe TT fans need to let it go.  

 

the more attention he gets from it the more he’ll continue to do so.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think Taylor is in a horrible situation, not only will the fans be all over him for the 140 yard passing performances but Gordon and Landry will be in his face as well. You have two diva WR's that will need targets and volume or they will lose it. The schedule for Cleveland is a nightmare setup for Taylor as well, they will need offense  and a few comebacks and those are two things Taylor doesn't do. I see a absolute nightmare scenario.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[YoloinOhio]

11 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think Taylor is in a horrible situation, not only will the fans be all over him for the 140 yard passing performances but Gordon and Landry will be in his face as well. You have two diva WR's that will need targets and volume or they will lose it. The schedule for Cleveland is a nightmare setup for Taylor as well, they will need offensive and a few comebacks and those are two things Taylor doesn't do. I see a absolute nightmare scenario.

I’m not sure what to expect. If their defense and run game  is bad like last year he will be set up to fail. Their run D was good,  but their pass D was historically bad. They can draft Barkley but they have to use him. Last year Hue ignored his RBs. Perhaps Haley will make changes. But Hue is still in charge. Too many variables.

 

im also not sure if Haley will have patience with him. He’s used to a much different type of QB.  

Edited March 11, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[CuddyDark]

12 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

was it necessary?  Maybe not.  

I don't believe he told any lies.

 

Maybe TT fans need to let it go.  

 

the more attention he gets from it the more he’ll continue to do so.  

I'm not even a TT fan. I just think it's ridiculous how people hate him. I'm glad he's gone. It's just ridiculous how people want to hate on the guy. These are the same people who were celebrating Peterman starting against SD even before he played the game. They thought that would be better too. I hope we end up better but the TT hate is ridiculous.

[grb]

4 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think most of the Tyrod fighting was rooted in  people wanting to defend their predictions that Tyrod would turn the corner. So when he didn't play up to them they had to turn to explanations why they were still right. And I think Tyrod saying it was because he is black didn't help.

 

Oh well we are on a new chapter and I wish the Browns good luck!

 

 

 

Two points :

• I'm amazed at people still fuming over Taylor's short, brief comment about black quarterbacks - made, of course, weeks before the bizarre & moronic decision to bench him for Peterman (a situation which Taylor handled with class). As for Taylor's comments, I personally think they're correct, that black QBs do have a smaller margin for error (at least to a degree) and are on a shorter leash. But even if I decide that's wrong - or disagree with Taylor over the extent - I would still find the anger over the comments strange. The man was in Buffalo for three years and represented the city extremely well, and yet people rage over that? Huh.
• As for Taylor never "turning the corner", really? Going from the end of '15 season, the Bills organization has dumped Hogan, dumped Goodwin, dumped Watkins, dumped Gillislee, dumped Woods, gave up on Karlos and Percy, saw their two main receivers miss well over half of '16 injured, saw their only two decent receivers play all of '17 injured, saw their o-line go from spotty to bad in pass protection, saw their o-line go from premier to so-so in the running game. That last development followed another useless scheme change, which dropped the Bills out of a league-leading running game. So Taylor never "turned the corner"? Go figure.

Here's what I know : During his Bills career, Taylor has had a pieced-together mess for receivers except the fifteen games of '15-'16 when he had Watkins and Woods on the field. That's it : Taylor, Watkins, and Woods played together just fifteen games over two years. 

 

When that happened, this occurred : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INT

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by grb

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I was no different with Taylor than I was with JP, EJ, Fitz, Edwards and even Orton. I knew very early that we had no chance of winning a Super Bowl with any of those QB's and I wanted them all gone. Taylor was just so frustrating because he had the QBR numbers that people would blindly use to justify him being a good QB. 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

No he didn't. He described TT to his "tee" He don't even know what TT was supposed to do on the field. He don't even know what play was called. I just think some people was to be right. He wants a pat on the back? Was that even necessary? Why not just say we're moving on and I wish him luck? Because it's not about TT it's about him and his little EGO.

 

You’re a fan right? Have you ever judged a player without knowing what the play call was or what his responsibilities were? I’m sure you’ve thought a player was good or bad right? Lighten up.

[CuddyDark]

17 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I was no different with Taylor than I was with JP, EJ, Fitz, Edwards and even Orton. I knew very early that we had no chance of winning a Super Bowl with any of those QB's and I wanted them all gone. Taylor was just so frustrating because he had the QBR numbers that people would blindly use to justify him being a good QB. 

Only difference between TT and those you listed is I believed the Bills had a shot at the PO every year with TT. Never thought that with any of the others.

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

You’re a fan right? Have you ever judged a player without knowing what the play call was or what his responsibilities were? I’m sure you’ve thought a player was good or bad right? Lighten up.

Judging is not the same as hatred.

Edited March 11, 2018 by CuddyDark

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Judging is not the same as hatred.

 

You thought that article was hatred? What’s the view like on that high horse?

[Maine-iac]

This whole thing seems like a bad joke.  A team that's won 1 game in 2 seasons gets a QB with a winning record that took his team to the playoffs for the first time in 17 years and we are going to tell them to hate that.  He's been a decent game manager with scrub receivers and will now be throwing to Gordon and Landry.  At the end of the day the Browns can try to get a "franchise QB" and still have a competent game manager if their draft pick fails or needs a year.  They have pass catchers in place and a good 0C to help Taylor and bring a rookie along.  Currently we have a questionable 0C, no QB worth trotting on the field, and will have to bring in players who have never been here before so at best we can only hope they pan out.  I don't think we are currently in any position to be looking down our noses at anyone.

[CuddyDark]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

You thought that article was hatred? What’s the view like on that high horse?

Pretty damn good.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

47 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

I'm not even a TT fan. I just think it's ridiculous how people hate him. I'm glad he's gone. It's just ridiculous how people want to hate on the guy. These are the same people who were celebrating Peterman starting against SD even before he played the game. They thought that would be better too. I hope we end up better but the TT hate is ridiculous.

Dissapointment is not hate.   

 

There is a difference and people not recognizing that are being disingenuous.   

[Maine-iac]

4 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

You thought that article was hatred? What’s the view like on that high horse?

[gobills1212]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He must read TBD

 

 

Man, I wish Sal posted here.  Seems like a great guy who gets it. Not that he's always right or anything but I always seem to dig or agree w where his head is at. This is no exception.

Thanks for the post Yolo!

[Perk71]

Well written article. Thanks Sal.

[IDBillzFan]

5 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think most of the Tyrod fighting was rooted in  people wanting to defend their predictions that Tyrod would turn the corner.

 

Almost ALL fan-fighting squabbles -- especially at TBD -- are rooted in someone either defending their failed prediction, or shoving their successful prediction in everyone's face. I maintain the four dumbest words anyone can write here are "I told you so."

 

Most of these are people who predict the failure of a professional football player, which is the single easiest thing to predict in the history of predictions. The most bold are the ones who were convinced, right from the gate, that the McDermott "process" coupled with Beane ego would be leading the team to another 17 years of disaster because their egos -- and no other good reason -- are to blame for trading someone like Sammy Watkins.

 

Some people never let it go, and yet others learn to slink away after, say, watching Peterman throw five picks in six minutes.

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by LABillzFan

[Misterbluesky]

5 hours ago, DFT said:

Something about that Sal Cap guy...    he just seems to “get it”.   

He's the exact same way in person..just a FYI,he's a Cleve Hill graduate,comes from a hard working middle class family.It's really tough to dislike the guy.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think most of the Tyrod fighting was rooted in  people wanting to defend their predictions that Tyrod would turn the corner. So when he didn't play up to them they had to turn to explanations why they were still right. And I think Tyrod saying it was because he is black didn't help.

 

Oh well we are on a new chapter and I wish the Browns good luck!

 

 

It was a combonation of that and a "certain few" and how they conducted themselves when he had a solid game (and yes he had those)

 

DIssappearing while it was happening

 

Returning when the euphoria of the a win was over to start the bashing up again

 

Or when we lost but Tyrod played sold (and yes it did happen) and in some way shape or form blame it on the qb

 

Get this straight my beloved fellow fans.....we can have Tom Brady behind center....if the rest of this team does not do its part we will still lose games......to blame everything on one position because that is the easiest thing to do is beyond stupid

 

Having said that.....he did not turn the corner.....the crit of him on missing open receivers....not throwing receiver open.....taking unecessary sacks.....not making the big throws when the game was on the line.......all valid.....and it is time to move on.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m not sure what to expect. If their defense and run game  is bad like last year he will be set up to fail. Their run D was good,  but their pass D was historically bad. They can draft Barkley but they have to use him. Last year Hue ignored his RBs. Perhaps Haley will make changes. But Hue is still in charge. Too many variables.

 

im also not sure if Haley will have patience with him. He’s used to a much different type of QB.  

 

 

This is is what I said in another thread - I think there are a couple of problems - #1 being Haley.  He is not a patient coach and he wants the QB to make the play in the flow - how many times has he and Ben gone at it because Ben holds the Ball to long - that will be an issue with TT also.

 

Second he has WRs that got in QBs faces during seasons they were putting up big numbers and both WRs will have a chance at FA after this season and so they want numbers.  If as we are hearing - Cleveland wants a run first offense and we know TT does not throw in volume - I see Gordon and especially Landry throwing a fit.  

 

Another big thing is that he is just a bridge - the expectations are to have him start until they can get their rookie in.  We are not talking about designing and offense for TT as much as designing an offense for the rookie and TT has to play in that system for 8weeks or so.  I think it will be difficult because TT needs a lot of time to develop with the receivers and if he knows it is only a short time until he is benched for the 3rd year in a row - I am not sure how great he will play.

 

The last thing is that I am not sure this FO is locked into Hue and if they start off struggling especially in division games - I would not be surprised to see a coaching change meaning nothing is really on solid ground in that organization and I think that will impact TT.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Yeah but the big question is 

 

Who won?  

I do think at the end of the day pretty much all of us agreed it was time to move on from TT as the QB for the future.

 

Where we differed is how high/ low we ranked him.

 

Like I don’t think he was as bad as lots of you guys say.

 

And a lot of people thought he was pretty much the worst QB in the league.

 

But like I said, regardless if some of us thought he was the 20th best QB in the league or 32nd best QB in the league, I think at the end of the day we all are in agreement that he wasn’t good enough as the QB for the franchise.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

I do think at the end of the day pretty much all of us agreed it was time to move on from TT as the QB for the future.

 

Where we differed is how high/ low we ranked him.

 

Like I don’t think he was as bad as lots of you guys say.

 

And a lot of people thought he was pretty much the worst QB in the league.

 

But like I said, regardless if some of us thought he was the 20th best QB in the league or 32nd best QB in the league, I think at the end of the day we all are in agreement that he wasn’t good enough as the QB for the franchise.

You can rest assured that this debate will continue even though we have moved on

 

If TT finds success in Cleveland (and by success I dont mean turning into Tom Brady...I mean being efficient...not turning the ball over...and winning games) PRO TT's will point to the fact that his team is winning

 

Detractor's will say that he is on a stocked team that is covering up his weaknesses

 

In the end....TT is what he is....the ceiling is reached...to me it was always about finding the right formula of scheme, players around him, and coaching to make it work.

 

The bills are tired of trying to find that....which I understand....

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Mr. Miyagi had to have one parting shot at the QB that made him look like an idiot in 2017.

 

Sal........the NFL is changing gramps........see what Philly did with Foles and Houston did with Watson......HISTORIC......and to a lesser historical scale but also impressively what ANTHONY LYNN did with Buffalo in 2016 in putting the best Bills offense in a quarter-century on the field........teams actually are adjusting their offenses to fit their QB strengths.

 

And just an awful read as well.........NOBODY cares about your first two paragraphs.............and the hypothetical "Tyrod loses the game in the 4th quarter" scenario is mostly fiction since those situations rarely happened.  

 

But yeah, the All-22 stuff being analyzed by dummies was a divisive factor........but what you are missing in BOTH of these cases is perspective.

 

What do other QB's All-22's look like?   Do statistics show that good QB's are always bringing their teams back from deficits against equally matched or better opponents?

 

I'll help you........other effective QB's miss wide open receivers and NO.....good QB's aren't regularly marching their teams back from 4th quarter deficits.

 

Are Matt Ryan and Alex Smith garbage because they threw brutal-looking, game-ending interceptions on their final drives in games against much less talented the Bills teams this year?   

 

Tom Brady was moving the ball up and down the field at will in the SB but couldn't get his last 2 drives past midfield at the end........I guess he's done (or maybe the other team had something to do with that?).

 

Go to school this offseason Sal.........your performance was garbage this year.......re-watch what Houston and Philly did.......even LA Rams where the HC was calling plays for his QB at the LOS......and maybe even actually watch some college football........then perhaps you will be able to get a better perspective on the NFL landscape.

 

 

 

Yours are the only posts I can guess the author without even reading them.  The emojis give it away. 

 

That being said, comparing Brady’s inability to score on his last two drives in the Super Bowl to Tyrod’s lack of comeback drives is utterly ridiculous.   Step it up.  

[John from Riverside]

34 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Yours are the only posts I can guess the author without even reading them.  The emojis give it away. 

 

That being said, comparing Brady’s inability to score on his last two drives in the Super Bowl to Tyrod’s lack of comeback drives is utterly ridiculous.   Step it up.  

Is it though?  I have repeatedly heard certain TT detractors talk about nothing but the jags playoff loss when talking about TT....nothing to do with the fact that they actually made the playoffs.....

 

I mean....what is done is done and I agree with the bills mgt decision to move on but there are two sides to this arguement.

[CuddyDark]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Dissapointment is not hate.   

 

There is a difference and people not recognizing that are being disingenuous.   

What is said about Tyrod here, in Buffalo, and in this piece, is not disappointment.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think most of the Tyrod fighting was rooted in  people wanting to defend their predictions that Tyrod would turn the corner. So when he didn't play up to them they had to turn to explanations why they were still right. And I think Tyrod saying it was because he is black didn't help.

 

Ha!  Ha!  I think most of the Tyrod fighting was rooted in people wanting to defend their position that Tyrod was an awful, horrible, sucky QB.  So when it was pointed out that he was mediocre and did some things well, they had to turn to elaborate explanations of why they were still right.     My personal favorite was the guy who proclaimed Tyrod was awful because he had only won a few games where the D didn't get a turnover (not realizing that TO differential is a primary predictor of whether ANY QB will win games, and that the same could be said of a couple QB universally recognized as quite good).

 

Quote

Oh well we are on a new chapter and I wish the Browns good luck!

 

Agreed

Edited March 11, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BillsFan130]

52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You can rest assured that this debate will continue even though we have moved on

 

If TT finds success in Cleveland (and by success I dont mean turning into Tom Brady...I mean being efficient...not turning the ball over...and winning games) PRO TT's will point to the fact that his team is winning

 

Detractor's will say that he is on a stocked team that is covering up his weaknesses

 

In the end....TT is what he is....the ceiling is reached...to me it was always about finding the right formula of scheme, players around him, and coaching to make it work.

 

The bills are tired of trying to find that....which I understand....

I don’t disagree with anything you said.

 

Thd debate will always continue.

 

But my point is, does anyone on this board actually think he should be the Bills QB for the future? 

 

I don’t think so personally.

 

Some people may label me as pro TT because I don’t think he is awful. But that doesn’t mean I wanted him as the Bills QB in 2018.

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by billsfan11

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I don’t disagree with anything you said.

 

Thd debate will always continue.

 

But my point is, does anyone on this board actually think he should be the Bills QB for the future? 

 

I don’t think so personally.

 

Some people may label me as pro TT because I don’t think he is awful. But that doesn’t mean I wanted him as the Bills QB in 2018.

 

I still have a very high opinion of TT and I DO think he is a starting QB in the NFL....he is not a franchise guy.....he is a mid level starting QB that needs a ton of help in order to get it done....just like every other mid level starting QB.

 

I think the bills wanna take their stab this year and finding better.  I hope they get it.

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Maine-iac said:

This whole thing seems like a bad joke.  A team that's won 1 game in 2 seasons gets a QB with a winning record that took his team to the playoffs for the first time in 17 years and we are going to tell them to hate that.  He's been a decent game manager with scrub receivers and will now be throwing to Gordon and Landry.  At the end of the day the Browns can try to get a "franchise QB" and still have a competent game manager if their draft pick fails or needs a year.  They have pass catchers in place and a good 0C to help Taylor and bring a rookie along.  Currently we have a questionable 0C, no QB worth trotting on the field, and will have to bring in players who have never been here before so at best we can only hope they pan out.  I don't think we are currently in any position to be looking down our noses at anyone.

it's almost like some here have never seen an all-22 film of receivers running wide open, repeatedly.

 

the blind leading the blind???

[Real McClappy]

So true!