Eric Galko of Optimum Scouting: Bills love Rosen (updated with new info)

[DCOrange]

8 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

All of his teammates love him. Check Twitter. He's super smart and thoughtful which rubs people the wrong way. 

 

The ones that have gone public do at least. People in NFL circles have heard that's not really the case though.

 

Edit: Supposedly.

Edited February 15, 2018 by DCOrange

[KDIGGZ]

Josh Rosen:

 

Ceiling: Eli Manning

Basement: Jay Cutler

 

People might be like eww gross Jay Cutler, but Cutler was pretty good in his prime.  Not elite but good enough to win games with his arm.  Does some dumb things with the ball that leave you scratching your head and has the infamous personality issues that rubs people the wrong way.  This is worst case scenario for Rosen and for me it's not that bad.

 

To me he is almost an exact clone of Eli Manning.  Looks exactly like him when throwing.  That's why I thought the Giants would just stay at 2 and pick him.  The transition away from Eli over the next 2 seasons would be ideal for everyone involved.  Rosen could sit and learn and mature a little bit.  But if they don't want him, I would gladly take the next Eli Manning.

[PolishDave]

21 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

To me he seems like a california thin skinned lib, that will also likely be injured often. i agree with the poster who called him a possible jay cutler...at best.

 

 

Rob Johnson perhaps?

Just now, kdiggz said:

Josh Rosen:

 

Ceiling: Eli Manning

Basement: Jay Cutler

 

 

If his ceiling is honestly Eli Manning - well then I would pass unless you can get him at 21.    Way too much capital for Eli.   

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

If his ceiling is honestly Eli Manning - well then I would pass unless you can get him at 21.    Way too much capital for Eli.   

yea, who wants 2 super bowl rings?  gross

[PolishDave]

Just now, kdiggz said:

yea, who wants 2 super bowl rings?  gross

 

You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor.   If Eli is his floor - okay.

 

Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy.    

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, PolishDave said:

 

You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor.   If Eli is his floor - okay.

 

Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy.    

He was good enough to win 2 super bowls, how is that not good enough for the Bills?  Worst case you get someone like Cutler in his prime who would still be an upgrade over anyone we have had in a long time and better than any of the free agents available.  Best case you get someone who could lead you to the super bowl

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor.   If Eli is his floor - okay.

 

Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy.    

Eli's career has two super bowl wins, albeit, involving at least one spectacular and unlikely catch.  Otherwise, he seems to me a streaky player who is above average, I suppose, but not elite by any stretch.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

20 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

TreDavious White - Great
Zay Jones - Jury still out
Dion Dawkins - Good

 

Shaq Lawson - Disappointing
Reggie Ragland - Gone
Adolphus Washington - Marginal

 

Ronald Darby - Gone
John Miller - Marginal

 

Sammy Watkins - Gone
Cyrus Kouandjio - Bust/Gone
Preston Brown - Decent/UFA

 

EJ Manuel - BUST
Robert Woods - Gone
Kiko Alonso - Gone
Marquise Goodwin - Gone

 

Stephon Gilmore - Gone
Cordy Glenn - Good
TJ Graham - BUST/Gone

 

Marcell Dareus - Gone
Aaron Williams - RETIRED
Kelvin Sheppard - BUST(But we got Jerry Hughes for him)

 

CJ Spiller - Gone
Torrell Troup - BUST
Alex Carrington - Gone/Not even on a roster

 

Aaron Maybin - BUST
Eric Wood - Good/Retired
Jairus Byrd - Gone
Andy Levitre - Gone

Leodis McKelvin - Gone/Not even on a roster
James Hardy - BUST
Chris Ellis - BUST

Even when we've hit on 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks they haven't stuck around. Let's solve our QB situation and get out of NFL purgatory. Jim Kelly's last NFL season was in 1996. It's time to get aggressive. 

 

Okay, yeah, I'm not arguing with that. I see the poster I quoted said "recently" and in my mind I was just going off what the new regime did with last year. I do think that's going too far back for "recently" and that Lawson should get a "jury still out" tag until mid-season or so this year. I'd also put Brown as better than "decent" and Glenn as better than "good". Here's to hoping the new offensive scheme will help produce an uptick/return to form for Miller, too.  

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

He was good enough to win 2 super bowls, how is that not good enough for the Bills?  Worst case you get someone like Cutler in his prime who would still be an upgrade over anyone we have had in a long time and better than any of the free agents available.  Best case you get someone who could lead you to the super bowl

 

Because that was Eli at his ceiling.    He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses.    He isn't elevating his team.

 

You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli.     That is a very bad bet.  Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely.

 

If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off.     If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him.  

 

I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that.   Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it.  

 

Dominance is the goal.   Perennial dominance.  Eli can't get you that.

[section122]

I finally figured out how to articulate my thoughts on the GIants trading.

 

It does make sense for the Giants to draft a QB this year, however, it also makes sense that they grab a developmental guy instead of a top choice.  If they can get an Allen, Jackson, or Rudolph they can all sit for 2+ years and mature while Eli finishes up his career.  Taking a Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen would make it difficult to have them sit even a full year.  Giants fans would scream loudly the first time Eli has one of his terrible games.  If they traded down to 21 and 22 and got say a Glenn (who I don't want to see traded), they would fix LT, get a developmental QB, and possibly a rb or another o-lineman.  They could still have their QB of the future and get their team help now instead of the either or they are facing sitting at 2.

[BillsfanAZ]

I think it is going to come down to cost. What is it going to take to move up to get a QB. If the Bills do love Rosen, it will be expensive to move up but I hope they dont give away the farm to do it. The Bills need a franchise QB badly but they also have other holes. I guess we will see what they do in free agency. 

[KDIGGZ]

5 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Because that was Eli at his ceiling.    He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses.    He isn't elevating his team.

 

You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli.     That is a very bad bet.  Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely.

 

If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off.     If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him.  

 

I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that.   Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it.  

 

Dominance is the goal.   Perennial dominance.  Eli can't get you that.

so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins?  or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB?  Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level.  get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins?  or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB?  Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level.  get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap

I could be wrong here, but I think you've created a false set of alternatives.  No one is guaranteed a top 5 qb.  The fella you are arguing with doesn't think Eli is a top five qb, so if you project a draft pick with a ceiling of Eli, he doesn't want to pay a bunch to move up and get that qb.  You can project a qb top 5 and miss, but the point is, one would be okay trying to move up for someone you think has a reasonable chance of becoming elite.

[BillsFan2313]

8 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Because that was Eli at his ceiling.    He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses.    He isn't elevating his team.

 

You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli.     That is a very bad bet.  Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely.

 

If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off.     If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him.  

 

I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that.   Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it.  

 

Dominance is the goal.   Perennial dominance.  Eli can't get you that.

 

Who the f wants our future QB to be top 10 all time in passing yards and touchdowns? I think you are underestimating just how good Eli has actually been throughout his career. 

[PolishDave]

Just now, kdiggz said:

so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins?  or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB?  Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level.  get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap

 

I don't care who the Bills get as long as the guy they get ends up being dominant.     I have no problem with them trading up for Rosen (or any other guy) if he is that guy.

 

If they are right about him, then he is way better than Eli Manning.   And I am okay with that.    I am not okay with trading up to 2 or 3 for a guy if they think his ceiling is Eli manning. 

 

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I could be wrong here, but I think you've created a false set of alternatives.  No one is guaranteed a top 5 qb.  The fella you are arguing with doesn't think Eli is a top five qb, so if you project a draft pick with a ceiling of Eli, he doesn't want to pay a bunch to move up and get that qb.  You can project a qb top 5 and miss, but the point is, one would be okay trying to move up for someone you think has a reasonable chance of becoming elite.

the alternative is paying someone like Cousins who is mediocre at best $30 mil per season.  if you don't think Eli Manning in his prime is good enough for us then I don't know what to tell you.  he won 2 super bowls and was the mvp.  i'm not sure how you can expect to do better than that in the draft.  nobody thought Brady was elite, he was a 6th rounder for a reason.  nobody thought Rodgers was elite, he dropped all the way into the 20's.  you pick someone you think you will succeed and sometimes you are pleasantly surprised when they surpass your expectations

[PolishDave]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Who the f wants our future QB to be top 10 all time in passing yards and touchdowns? I think you are underestimating just how good Eli has actually been throughout his career. 

 

I don't have a problem with the bills acquiring a quarterback on par with Eli Manning.   He would be a substantial upgrade.   I just have a problem drastically over-paying for that guy.  If you can get him without overpaying, go ahead.    If you are going to pay what it takes to draft number 2 or 3 this year, well, then you better get better than Eli or you aren't going to any Superbowls in the near future and you certainly aren't going to be dominant year after year.    

[FeelingOnYouboty]

47 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Biggest question I have on Rosen's character is whether or not he loves football

 

I tend to ignore everything anonymous scouts say to be honest. They're the most curmudgeon people on Earth. 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, FearLess Price said:

 

That would be crazy.

 

Ive done that in madden a few times, traded all my picks in exchange for 2 or 3 1st round picks.

 

The problem with the browns is they are extremely young and lack veteran leadership. Taking a solid QB and RB with Todd Haley calling the plays should be an upgrade.

 

Its the Browns tho, so who knows, they might take Josh Allen  lol.

Hey guys I didn't go through all 16 pages so maybe it's been talked about but (IMO) it's nothing more then a smokescreen, 

why would we let the whole world know how much we really like him ? Or maybe it's a double reverse? Who knows! 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

I tend to ignore everything anonymous scouts say to be honest. They're the most curmudgeon people on Earth. 

 

It's tough to sort through the trash.

 

When it comes to Rosen, there's so much to like.  At the same time, he's got enough of a future in sports, politics, social activism, and other areas that it's appropriate to wonder whether or not football will come first to him.

[BuffaloRebound]

I love Eli and can see the comparisons to Rosen, but think Rosen has the potential to be a more dominant QB than Eli.  Rosen is a better passer than Eli.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It's tough to sort through the trash.

 

When it comes to Rosen, there's so much to like.  At the same time, he's got enough of a future in sports, politics, social activism, and other areas that it's appropriate to wonder whether or not football will come first to him.

What is he required to do so that you deem him as loving football?

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Josh Rosen's ceiling is Matt Ryan and his floor is Eli Manning/Jameis Winston. He will be a perennial Top 10 QB in this league.

[Putin]

IMO I don't believe will give up so much asset when we have so many wholes to fill particularly on defense, I also have a feeling McD is not giving up on Peterman just yet , at the same time i wouldn't have any problem moving all the way up to even 2nd if they truly feel this is the guy 

[billsredneck1]

29 minutes ago, section122 said:

I finally figured out how to articulate my thoughts on the GIants trading.

 

It does make sense for the Giants to draft a QB this year, however, it also makes sense that they grab a developmental guy instead of a top choice.  If they can get an Allen, Jackson, or Rudolph they can all sit for 2+ years and mature while Eli finishes up his career.  Taking a Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen would make it difficult to have them sit even a full year.  Giants fans would scream loudly the first time Eli has one of his terrible games.  If they traded down to 21 and 22 and got say a Glenn (who I don't want to see traded), they would fix LT, get a developmental QB, and possibly a rb or another o-lineman.  They could still have their QB of the future and get their team help now instead of the either or they are facing sitting at 2.

that trade would make sense and not give up too much. however , assuming darnold goes one, i'd still take mayfield over rosen.

i just don't feel rosen is going to live up to the hype....or last long before injury...or is the kind of guy that can overcome adversity or criticism. i think baker is a buffalo guy.

[FearLess Price]

11 minutes ago, Putin said:

Hey guys I didn't go through all 16 pages so maybe it's been talked about but (IMO) it's nothing more then a smokescreen, 

why would we let the whole world know how much we really like him ? Or maybe it's a double reverse? Who knows! 

 

Sometimes things leak, sometimes theyre smoke screens.

 

From now till the draft everything has to be taken with a grain of salt becuae like you said....

Smoke screen.....misdirection.....conspiracies...mk ultra super mind reading frogs...etc...

 

 

Beane did scout all QBs heavily this college season tho. We are def gonna draft one.

 

Ill bet my pubes on it.

 

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, horned dogs said:

What is he required to do so that you deem him as loving football?

 

I'm not sure he'd be able to convince me to tell you the truth.

 

I mean, if I'm an NFL GM, I'm working behind the scenes to talk to everyone I can that knows the kid.  I'm wanting to find out how he talks when nobody's around.  Does he talk about his career aspirations outside of football?  Does he seem more excited about them than about going to the NFL?

 

It's that type of stuff that teams are going to need to be comfortable with IMO.

 

And by the way, I don't say that to knock the kid's character; my point is, rather, that trading up for the kid is a big investment, and I want to know he's in it for the long haul.

[billsredneck1]

10 minutes ago, Putin said:

IMO I don't believe will give up so much asset when we have so many wholes to fill particularly on defense, I also have a feeling McD is not giving up on Peterman just yet , at the same time i wouldn't have any problem moving all the way up to even 2nd if they truly feel this is the guy 

i don't think he is either. i really think in his second year he can produce like geoff...for example. that's why i'm ok if they wait and take rudolph in the 1st. would be nice if it happened in the 2nd, but doubt he'll last that long.

 

and...if they do take him, they can also target another project qb later such as a white, falk or ferguson.

if they feel they can have success with a young stable of qbs, they can really make hay filling holes with the rest of the draft and fa.

[Gordio]

3 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

I don't know how that guy said he doesn't have great numbers. He has incredible numbers for a couple years now. He does play in an inflated system and he was surrounded with two NFL WR's and a future 1st RD RB. 

 

Rudolph is a marginal talent. He's got great size, three years of starting experience and does some good things but he's a one read guy. He'll never be an elite QB. Do we really want to spend a high pick on that?

 

 

You can't really hold it against him that he had very good talent around him.  I will go on record as to say Rudolph has just as much chance of being a franchise QB than Darnold/Mayfield/Rosen.  The good thing about MR is we won't have to mortgage the farm to get him either.  He should be there when we are picking.  I don't know, maybe I am wrong.  I was very high on Matt Barkley a few years ago & he never panned out. 

 

I wouldn't touch Rosen with a 10ft pole.  His injuries & attitude scare the hell out of me.  If we trade up I really hope it is for Mayfield or Darnold. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Gordio

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I'm not sure he'd be able to convince me to tell you the truth.

 

I mean, if I'm an NFL GM, I'm working behind the scenes to talk to everyone I can that knows the kid.  I'm wanting to find out how he talks when nobody's around.  Does he talk about his career aspirations outside of football?  Does he seem more excited about them than about going to the NFL?

 

It's that type of stuff that teams are going to need to be comfortable with IMO.

 

And by the way, I don't say that to knock the kid's character; my point is, rather, that trading up for the kid is a big investment, and I want to know he's in it for the long haul.

That's fair. I trust that McBeane will do their due diligence. Short of being a cross between Leaf/ Jeff George and Cutler I don't see a problem. If he just intelligent, has opinions and interests it should not be a problem IMO. My QB doesn't need to be a one-dimensional lug nut. He needs to put the work in and be dedicated, but I think people get carried away with football, football, football...if you know what I mean!

[FeelingOnYouboty]

18 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

You can't really hold it against him that he had very good talent around him.  I will go on record as to say Rudolph has just as much chance of being a franchise QB than Darnold/Mayfield/Rosen.  The good thing about MR is we won't have to mortgage the farm to get him either.  He should be there when we are picking.  I don't know, maybe I am wrong.  I was very high on Matt Barkley a few years ago & he never panned out. 

 

I wouldn't touch Rosen with a 10ft pole.  His injuries & attitude scare the hell out of me.  If we trade up I really hope it is for Mayfield or Darnold. 

 

I don't begrudge him for having talent around him but more than any other QB in this class he was helped out by those around him. Put Rosen in that system and there's no doubt he's QB1.

 

My personal rankings are as follows

 

1. Baker Mayfield

2. Josh Rosen

3. Lamar Jackson

4. Sam Darnold

5. Kyle Lauletta

 

I actually think all 5 turn out to be good QB's at the next level...

[PIZ]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

I finally figured out how to articulate my thoughts on the GIants trading.

 

It does make sense for the Giants to draft a QB this year, however, it also makes sense that they grab a developmental guy instead of a top choice.  If they can get an Allen, Jackson, or Rudolph they can all sit for 2+ years and mature while Eli finishes up his career.  Taking a Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen would make it difficult to have them sit even a full year.  Giants fans would scream loudly the first time Eli has one of his terrible games.  If they traded down to 21 and 22 and got say a Glenn (who I don't want to see traded), they would fix LT, get a developmental QB, and possibly a rb or another o-lineman.  They could still have their QB of the future and get their team help now instead of the either or they are facing sitting at 2.

 

That makes a ton of sense.  Then Pat Shurmor and Gettleman don't get the NY media or fans on his ass about starting the #2 pick in the draft, who happens to be a QB, and who happens to be the heir apparent to a Manning.  They can comfortably build their roster without having that worry, and can groom their rookie (drafted 21 or 22 or later or Davis) without feeling the pressure to start Rosen (or other).  Yeah, I like your way of thinking.  I just talked my way, with your help, into believing that this may happen.

39 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i don't think he is either. i really think in his second year he can produce like geoff...for example. that's why i'm ok if they wait and take rudolph in the 1st. would be nice if it happened in the 2nd, but doubt he'll last that long.

 

and...if they do take him, they can also target another project qb later such as a white, falk or ferguson.

if they feel they can have success with a young stable of qbs, they can really make hay filling holes with the rest of the draft and fa.

 

I was a believer in Peterman too.  Thought he was an awesome pick.  I just don't think he showed anything at all in his brief appearances to make me believe he can carry this team.  I think he could be a great #2, but I don't see starter in him anymore.

[section122]

58 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

that trade would make sense and not give up too much. however , assuming darnold goes one, i'd still take mayfield over rosen.

i just don't feel rosen is going to live up to the hype....or last long before injury...or is the kind of guy that can overcome adversity or criticism. i think baker is a buffalo guy.

 

I like Mayfield the best myself but don't mind Rosen.  My completely uneducated opinion has a top 3 of Mayfield, Rosen, Jackson.  I don't care for Darnold and Allen screams bust to me.  

 

9 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

That makes a ton of sense.  Then Pat Shurmor and Gettleman don't get the NY media or fans on his ass about starting the #2 pick in the draft, who happens to be a QB, and who happens to be the heir apparent to a Manning.  They can comfortably build their roster without having that worry, and can groom their rookie (drafted 21 or 22 or later or Davis) without feeling the pressure to start Rosen (or other).  Yeah, I like your way of thinking.  I just talked my way, with your help, into believing that this may happen.

 

 

I was hoping it came through clear .  It makes perfect sense and I think if it happens this would be the logic they use.  I've thought since the end of the year that the Giants and Colts should be the target if they are set on moving up.  If Rosen can be had at 2 the Giants make sense.  If not I would still go to 3 for Mayfield as I think he doesn't make it out of the top 10 either.

[Tatonka68]

PER NFL.COM

SOURCES TELL US

 "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive

[Dr. Who]

5 hours ago, kdiggz said:

the alternative is paying someone like Cousins who is mediocre at best $30 mil per season.  if you don't think Eli Manning in his prime is good enough for us then I don't know what to tell you.  he won 2 super bowls and was the mvp.  i'm not sure how you can expect to do better than that in the draft.  nobody thought Brady was elite, he was a 6th rounder for a reason.  nobody thought Rodgers was elite, he dropped all the way into the 20's.  you pick someone you think you will succeed and sometimes you are pleasantly surprised when they surpass your expectations

If Josh Rosen will be an elite qb, I certainly hope we go get him.

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

PER NFL.COM

SOURCES TELL US

 "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive

 

Blah un-named executive with likely an agenda (drive player to his team).  Never take ANY Stock in ANY of these comments around this time a year.

Edited February 15, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Klaista2k]

Rosen scares me because of his durability issues.

 

I'd rather have Darnold or Mayfield. 

[MAJBobby]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If Josh Rosen will be an elite qb, I certainly hope we go get him.

 

Yep this. Make it happen. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[FLFan]

On 2/14/2018 at 6:35 AM, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If they want Glenn then just drop pick 96 from my original valuation. That trade would likely be 21, 22, 2019 1st, 2019 3rd, and Glenn.

I would pay this.