Eric Galko of Optimum Scouting: Bills love Rosen (updated with new info)

[FeelingOnYouboty]

51 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Thank you.  How could anybody say this kid has not been productive.  Watch the film, the kid has plenty of arm strength.  If he is there at #21 I honestly hope the Bills run to the podium with his name on the card. 

 

I don't know how that guy said he doesn't have great numbers. He has incredible numbers for a couple years now. He does play in an inflated system and he was surrounded with two NFL WR's and a future 1st RD RB. 

 

Rudolph is a marginal talent. He's got great size, three years of starting experience and does some good things but he's a one read guy. He'll never be an elite QB. Do we really want to spend a high pick on that?

[DCOrange]

3 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Some points:

 

• The only QBs worth moving up for are Rosen and Mayfield. They are so far ahead of the others in every metric, that I'm shocked when I hear Darnold might be going No. 1.

 

This is 100% true about Mayfield; not so sure that's the case with Rosen though. He certainly doesn't look bad in terms of the metrics, but he's basically in the same neighborhood as the non-Mayfield and non-Josh Allen (in a bad way) prospects.

 

See this Fanpost I threw together at BuffaloRumblings:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/12/14/16776108/more-ncaa-qb-charts

 

If you look at the rating numbers, Lamar and Rudolph look better than Rosen. The adjusted completion percentage metrics are where Rosen shines more. But nobody is remotely close to Mayfield.

[KDIGGZ]

I had a thought after reading this yesterday. The Browns are taking either Darnold or Mayfield. I think if they take Mayfield then the player the Bills might really want is Darnold. He fits the mold of a McBeane player more. I'm personally not high on him but I'm not the one picking. Anyhow, Bills put the word out they want Rosen and that makes someone like the Jets need to trade up if they want him. Meanwhile Darnold falls farther down, no QB needy teams 3-14 assuming Broncos sign Cousins. There's a better chance that someone picking in that range will want our 21 and 22 to allow us to trade up. It's more cost effective and we won't have to trade away our entire draft to get our guy. Just a thought!

[Gugny]

Not that anyone's race has ANYTHING to do with being a successful NFL QB (or successful at anything, for that matter), but has there ever been an elite Jewish NFL QB?

 

NOTE:  This isn't a race discussion. I just can't think of any and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any. 

 

I like Rosen and I do think he'll be successful in the NFL.  But would he be the first successful Jewish QB in NFL history?

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Sid Luckman

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

Sign Bradford to a short term deal and trade the house for Rosen.

 

Where does all the Bradford love come from?  

Please explain why you think this is a good idea:

-what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team?

-what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role?

 

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Not that anyone's race has ANYTHING to do with being a successful NFL QB (or successful at anything, for that matter), but has there ever been an elite Jewish NFL QB?

 

NOTE:  This isn't a race discussion. I just can't think of any and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any. 

 

I like Rosen and I do think he'll be successful in the NFL.  But would he be the first successful Jewish QB in NFL history?

 

That's good, because last I checked "Jewish" was not a race, and historically, attempting to cast "religion" as a race has foreshadowed bad things.

Very bad things.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[McBean]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where does all the Bradford love come from?  

Please explain why you think this is a good idea:

-what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team?

-what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role?

 

Say it with me...Bridge...QB.

 

I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

While this is all true, it was a rubber matt that ended Kevin Kolb's NFL career.

 

NFL players are bigger, stronger and more importantly much, much faster. It's not just the concussions that have me worried about Allen as much as his recurring shoulder injuries and his struggles with free rushers. Makes risky decisions under pressure, throws off his back foot when hurried. Makes dangerous throwaways while being sacked instead of holding the ball. When he takes hits he is prone to get knocked out of a game. 

 

Other than all that a really good college football QB. 

 

My personal opinion is that the Bills have far too many holes on the roster to give up so much for a QB with serious questions. I prefer the Bills back up the Brinks truck for Cousins and spend all those draft picks on filling those holes.

 

You'd rather make an average QB the highest paid player in league history than draft a rookie QB who will be cheap and is already better than Cousins. This is not how you build a team.

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where does all the Bradford love come from?  

Please explain why you think this is a good idea:

-what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team?

-what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role?

 

He's a good QB. He's just had a horrible injury history. If the injuries drive his price down a lot, he makes a lot of sense as a guy that can start while you develop your rookie.

 

If that rookie is Rosen, I don't really see the point though; Rosen should be ready to start immediately.

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

Say it with me...Bridge...QB.

 

I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center.

 

 

Bradford is going to be too expensive.  If we pay the price to get Rosen, I'd much rather go with a much cheaper guy like bringing Fitz back and use the rest of our cap resources to put the best possible team around Rosen (or Darnold, or yuck Mayfield).

[DasNootz]

There's a difference between Jim Kelly and Josh Rosen for those that seem to equate the two after Rosen shunned going to Cleveland.  Jim had a passion for the game and the talent.  The area and the fans can win him over eventually, but he doesn't have the passion and desire to be the very best there are way too many opportunities for long term failure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, McBean said:

Say it with me...Bridge...QB.

I wouldn’t want Rosen getting thrown in Day 1 under center.

 

You didn't answer the question:

-what role do you expect Bradford to fill on the team? (don't say "Bridge QB", what do you mean by that?  Guy who starts 3 games?  Plays a season?  Plays 2?)

-what in his playing history leads you to believe he is a good choice to fill this role?

 

[offyourocker]

I don’t to mortgage 5 high pics for one guy that might or might not make it

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

There's a difference between Jim Kelly and Josh Rosen for those that seem to equate the two after Rosen shunned going to Cleveland.  Jim had a passion for the game and the talent.  The area and the fans can win him over eventually, but he doesn't have the passion and desire to be the very best there are way too many opportunities for long term failure.

That's an awfully definitive statement. How long have you know Rosen?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

He's a good QB. He's just had a horrible injury history. If the injuries drive his price down a lot, he makes a lot of sense as a guy that can start while you develop your rookie.

If that rookie is Rosen, I don't really see the point though; Rosen should be ready to start immediately.

 

Let me see if I can parse this:

-The role you expect Bradford to fill on the team is to start regularly for a variable (but crucial) period of time - IOW, critical that he be available

-The reason you believe Bradford to be a good choice to fill this role is that he has a "horrible injury history"

 

Makes sense. 

 

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

The bolded statement demonstrates to me, you haven't really done your homework. Here's a link to help: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mason-rudolph-1.html

 

The legit concern is (Mason Rudolph) holding the ball when he gets pushed in the pocket and moves out of the pocket to escape, as I don't like how he holds the ball and it can lead to fumbles, which is reckless. But, IF that's my only real concern, I note it, indicate we need to work on it, and take him at 21 and don't look back.                                                              

 

Although, according to the abovelinked article at Buffalo Rumblings, he does have the shortest overall time to throw.  It sounds like your concern is holding the ball in specific situations?

 

One concern I have with both Rudolph and Rosen is limited mobility.  I don't necessarily want a QB who can run, but to succeed at the NFL level without getting hurt a QB does have to be able to sense pressure in the pocket and move around (sidestep, step up) to avoid it.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[DCOrange]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let me see if I can parse this:

-The role you expect Bradford to fill on the team is to start regularly for a variable (but crucial) period of time - IOW, critical that he be available

-The reason you believe Bradford to be a good choice to fill this role is that he has a "horrible injury history"

 

Obviously the injury history is the risk involved. Signing Bradford and carrying him as the only other QB on the roster means you have to be either:

1. Comfortable with Bradford's current health and think the past injuries were flukes

2. Comfortable with your rookie potentially being thrown to the wolves at any moment

 

The injury history is the only reason Bradford won't be getting $20 million per year though. Outside of Cousins, he's probably the only immediate upgrade over Tyrod that will be available this offseason (while he's healthy that is).

 

Edit: If the Bills are comfortable with being a bad team in 2019, I wouldn't bother with Bradford. And if the Bills know they don't want their rookie to play for a year, I wouldn't bother with him. But if Bradford is coming for $5-10 million, I'd much rather have him than a guy like Derek Anderson or Peterman or something that you know will be bad. At that point, I think the price is worth the potential reward. Maybe Buffalo doesn't care about competing next season and they simply want someone that can take the hits while they develop their rookie; I don't know. But like I said, Bradford is one of the very few options that would legitimately improve the Bills in the short-term.

Edited February 15, 2018 by DCOrange

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

That's an awfully definitive statement. How long have you know Rosen?

 

Agreed! And, I've mentioned this in another thread but his left tackle for two years (LT and QB relationship can be a close one) Conor McDermott is on our roster and loves Rosen from everything I've read.  How Conor feels about Rosen as a friend and teammate should be, at least, a part of the evaluation of Rosen.

 

While there are other UCLA players on rosters in the NFL, having a guy like Conor McDermott on our roster gives us some very special insight into how teammates feel about Rosen and what type of leader and person he is. Dude was in the offensive huddle with him for two years. This fact should not be overlooked.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, DCOrange said:

 

Obviously the injury history is the risk involved. Signing Bradford and carrying him as the only other QB on the roster means you have to be either:

1. Comfortable with Bradford's current health and think the past injuries were flukes

2. Comfortable with your rookie potentially being thrown to the wolves at any moment

 

The injury history is the only reason Bradford won't be getting $20 million per year though. Outside of Cousins, he's probably the only immediate upgrade over Tyrod that will be available this offseason (while he's healthy that is).

 

I would put it to you that:

2) If you're truly comfortable with your rookie potentially "being thrown to the wolves" any moment, you really don't need a bridge QB.  You need a decent backup, and just start the rookie.

1) If you think Bradford's injury history since 2013 are "flukes" I don't know what to say.  Once is an accident, twice may be a coincidence, three times is a pattern. (In Bradford's case, it wasn't coincidence, it was reinjury of the same ligament, potentially due to rushing his return).

[Tatonka68]

7 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Rosen suffered not one but 2 concussions last season.  I think its absolutely insane to trade the house for him.  

 

Rosen also an often injured QB dating back to High school.  I really hope this is smoke.

You spread rumors that you want Rosen, so another team panicks and trades up for him, then you trade up for your guy, Baker Mayfield with Indianapolis. LOL

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Agreed! And, I've mentioned this in another thread but his left tackle for two years (LT and QB relationship can be a close one) Conor McDermott is on our roster and loves Rosen from everything I've read.  How Conor feels about Rosen as a friend and teammate should be, at least, a part of the evaluation of Rosen.

 

Interesting!  I did not know that!  Last I saw he'd been drafted by the Pats.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting!  I did not know that!  Last I saw he'd been drafted by the Pats.

I think he has a shot at being our RT, honestly. We kept him on the roster (not PS) last year. They see something in him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think he has a shot at being our RT, honestly. We kept him on the roster (not PS) last year. They see something in him.

 

Didn't they have to keep him on the roster, since they signed him off the Patriots practice squad?

Edit: answering my own question, no, we didn't have to, Pats waived him.

[The Now Moment]

Ya know for all of the people that complained about being too conservative, wouldn't it be very conservative to not trade up and find another decent QB to fill in?  That just continues the trend of conservative crap that has dragged this team down for years.  Let's be aggressive and go get a guy.  Philly was one of the most aggressive teams I've seen in terms of getting a QB and play-calling style and they beat a team we dread to play. 

[MrEpsYtown]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting!  I did not know that!  Last I saw he'd been drafted by the Pats.

 

We claimed him on waivers early in the season and he was on the roster throughout most of the year. He was active for a few games. I don't think he saw any real action besides the field goal team. He does have some potential as a possible RT down the line.  But he does give us great insight into Rosen. 

[PolishDave]

22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

They aren’t trading the pick, aren’t taking Rosen, and I think it’s too high for Mayfield or Allen who i think they could get at 4

 

Browns could trade up from 4 to 2 with the Giants - draft number 1 and number 2 and land both of their top 2 guys - and they probably should.

 

[FearLess Price]

1 minute ago, PolishDave said:

 

Browns could trade up from 4 to 2 with the Giants - draft number 1 and number 2 and land both of their top 2 guys - and they probably should.

 

 

My guess if they did that, they would take Darnold and Saquon Barkley.

[PolishDave]

4 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

My guess if they did that, they would take Darnold and Saquon Barkley.

 

Bills could then trade with Giants at 4 and get one of the top 3 QB's in the draft without giving up as much as it would take to get to 2.    The price for trading up to 2 will be astronomical.

 

Or Buffalo could trade the Colts for 3rd pick and still get their QB.

 

I hope Cleveland trades up.

Edited February 15, 2018 by PolishDave

[FearLess Price]

2 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Bills could then trade with Giants at 4 and get one of the top 3 QB's in the draft without giving up as much as it would take to get to 2.    The price for trading up to 2 will be astronomical.

 

 

Right. I figured trading with the Colts would be the easiest thing for us to grab one of the top 3. The Giants desperatly need a RB they might want Barkley for themelves too.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

While this is all true, it was a rubber matt that ended Kevin Kolb's NFL career.

 

It wasn't, actually.  He returned from Rubbermatgate to get a concussion from being kneed in the helmet by a Redskins player:

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/retired-kevin-kolb-has-concussion-symptoms--every-second-of-every-day-164216614.html

[billykay]

19 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

 

I'm all about Mayfield out of the three. I think we need some competitive swagger on our team. 

Two QBs: Joe Fergeson & Jim Kelly. Both had good arms. Both were accurate passers. Both were good in the pocket. Neither was very  mobile.

One turned out to be decent but average. The other has a gold jacket.

IMO, Darnold & Mayfield remind me of Kelly. Rosen, a nice QB with all the measurables, just doesn't.

If we don't sign Cousins, unlikely, I am all for using our draft capital to trade up. We will wind up with two 2s and a #1, the pick that we trade up for. I'm just not sure that the trade up should be for Rosen.

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, FearLess Price said:

Right. I figured trading with the Colts would be the easiest thing for us to grab one of the top 3. The Giants desperately need a RB they might want Barkley for themselves too.

 

Imagine if Cleveland traded all their picks this year in order to move up twice and land the top 3 picks in the draft.   1, 2 & 3

 

With a decent coach and their existing talent on the roster, they could and should be a dominant force in the conference for years.   But it's Cleveland.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, billykay said:

IMO, Darnold & Mayfield remind me of Kelly. Rosen, a nice QB with all the measurables, just doesn't.

Honestly, I'd prefer that the QB we take remind me of someone who has a ring.

[Chuck Wagon]

51 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

There's a difference between Jim Kelly and Josh Rosen for those that seem to equate the two after Rosen shunned going to Cleveland.  Jim had a passion for the game and the talent.  The area and the fans can win him over eventually, but he doesn't have the passion and desire to be the very best there are way too many opportunities for long term failure.

 

 

Rosen has made it pretty far (day 1 power 5 conference starter, very highly rated across all draft board) for a kid who apparently has no interest in football.  Imagine if he cared, he'd pretty much be the greatest prospect ever.  That, or this is a ridiculous tired notion that exposes posters who know nothing.

[BigBuff423]

43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let me see if I can parse this:

-The role you expect Bradford to fill on the team is to start regularly for a variable (but crucial) period of time - IOW, critical that he be available

-The reason you believe Bradford to be a good choice to fill this role is that he has a "horrible injury history"

 

Makes sense. 

 

 

Although, according to the abovelinked article at Buffalo Rumblings, he does have the shortest overall time to throw.  It sounds like your concern is holding the ball in specific situations?

 

One concern I have with both Rudolph and Rosen is limited mobility.  I don't necessarily want a QB who can run, but to succeed at the NFL level without getting hurt a QB does have to be able to sense pressure in the pocket and move around (sidestep, step up) to avoid it.

 

Yes, you're right...how he holds the ball in specific situations, mainly when the pressure gets to him and he's trying to buy some time or in those limited situations, his first step or two when he tries to run a bit, the ball security concerns me more from projecting what "could" be an issue with faster, stronger Defensive linemen and the need to hold that ball appropriately at all times. But, that's also why I essentially say it's a piece to work on, but not anywhere close to a real concern that dissuades me from making him my selection.

[FearLess Price]

17 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Imagine if Cleveland traded all their picks this year in order to move up twice and land the top 3 picks in the draft.   1, 2 & 3

 

With a decent coach and their existing talent on the roster, they could and should be a dominant force in the conference for years.   But it's Cleveland.

 

That would be crazy.

 

Ive done that in madden a few times, traded all my picks in exchange for 2 or 3 1st round picks.

 

The problem with the browns is they are extremely young and lack veteran leadership. Taking a solid QB and RB with Todd Haley calling the plays should be an upgrade.

 

Its the Browns tho, so who knows, they might take Josh Allen  lol.

[billsredneck1]

37 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Bills could then trade with Giants at 4 and get one of the top 3 QB's in the draft without giving up as much as it would take to get to 2.    The price for trading up to 2 will be astronomical.

 

Or Buffalo could trade the Colts for 3rd pick and still get their QB.

 

I hope Cleveland trades up.

indy is not going to trade that 3rd pick. they want bradley chubb, according to an interview i heard on wgr yesterday. that being said there's no way i'd give up 3 1sts and then some to get rosen at 2.

 

i recently read an article where it showed rosen as quite willing to express his social views. in this one particular piece he expressed much disrespect for the president with generalized, uninformed liberal views. to me he seems like a california thin skinned lib, that will also likely be injured often. i agree with the poster who called him a possible jay cutler...at best.

 

i don't see that as a fit in buffalo. the only qb i trade up for is mayfield. tough, competitive and full of passion for the game. i myself would rather give up 22 for foles and then take a qb they like somewhere after.

 

or, as far as trading up, i would go both 1sts and tt or glenn to denver for 5 and chad kelly. get a good ken dorsey type for qb coach and go with nate, baker and chad as a stable upcoming talented young guns. it's a process.

Edited February 15, 2018 by billsredneck1

[FeelingOnYouboty]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Agreed! And, I've mentioned this in another thread but his left tackle for two years (LT and QB relationship can be a close one) Conor McDermott is on our roster and loves Rosen from everything I've read.  How Conor feels about Rosen as a friend and teammate should be, at least, a part of the evaluation of Rosen.

 

While there are other UCLA players on rosters in the NFL, having a guy like Conor McDermott on our roster gives us some very special insight into how teammates feel about Rosen and what type of leader and person he is. Dude was in the offensive huddle with him for two years. This fact should not be overlooked.   

 

All of his teammates love him. Check Twitter. He's super smart and thoughtful which rubs people the wrong way. 

 

[PolishDave]

11 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

indy is not going to trade that 3rd pick. they want bradley chubb, according to an interview i heard on wgr yesterday. that being said there's no way i'd give up 3 1sts and then some to get rosen at 2.

 

i recently read an article where it showed rosen as quite willing to express his social views. in this one particular piece he expressed much disrespect for the president with generalized, uninformed liberal views. to me he seems like a california thin skinned lib, that will also likely be injured often. i agree with the poster who called him a possible jay cutler...at best.

 

i don't see that as a fit in buffalo. the only qb i trade up for is mayfield. tough, competitive and full of passion for the game. i myself would rather give up 22 for foles and then take a qb they like somewhere after.

 

or, as far as trading up, i would go both 1sts and tt or glenn to denver for 5 and chad kelly. get a good ken dorsey type for qb coach and go with nate, baker and chad as a stable upcoming talented young guns. it's a process.

 

You were making sense and sounding reasonable until you mentioned the douchebag.    I will burn my season tickets on camera if they made any kind of trade for Chad "super-douche" Kelly.     He shouldn't be on any team ever.   And if JK and Elway weren't friends, he wouldn't be.

[billykay]

3 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

You were making sense and sounding reasonable until you mentioned the douchebag.    I will burn my season tickets on camera if they made any kind of trade for Chad "super-douche" Kelly.     He shouldn't be on any team ever.   And if JK and Elway weren't friends, he wouldn't be.

But, how do you really feel about Chad ?

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

All of his teammates love him. Check Twitter. He's super smart and thoughtful which rubs people the wrong way. 

 

 

Biggest question I have on Rosen's character is whether or not he loves football